FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 36
May 18-May 19, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 36
TOPICS:
SPOILER: AtA,HF--a LC on LC (long)
Spoiler: Last Knight (5)
vampire tears -- LK but no real spoilers (2)
SPOILER:LAST KNIGHT/COUSIN MEL IS PISSED!!!!!!!!
SPOILER: Last Knight (2)
SPOILER: LK: Damn!
Last Knight--Another emotional response
spoiler: LK
"Sorcha's Discovery" --They're NOT DEAD -- canon proposal
Last Knight: Did Nick die?
Um ... sorry!
Spoilers: Last Knight, Fever and blood tears (long!)
SPOILER: LK Details from Laura
Why Nat isn't dead
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 18:13:13 -0700
From: Amy R. <akr@m.......>
Subject: SPOILER: AtA,HF--a LC on LC (long)
Some months ago, soon after I got my first crack at second season eps, I
gushingly joked, "Is there room for a Light Cousin?" Jamie responded
affirmatively, Idalia embraced the concept, and after debating some of the
initial idea with Laurie -- on the heels of the Nevermore mess -- I
concluded that the label actually conveys something useful.
In reading Sandra's evaluation of LC, however, I was once again reminded
that I haven't seen all of the first two seasons, and that those eps I
have seen were all selected by Cousins -- one of whom is very
self-satisfied over this whole "Light Cousin" business. :) Goodness
knows what they selected for me to watch.... <g>
For anyone who has missed it, a Light Cousin is like the opposite of a
Dark Knightie; instead of wanting Nick to accept his vampiric side, we
want LC to accept his human side. In short, we want to redeem LC.
As Sandra has pointed out, having LC actually achieve redemption is not
only not the point of the story of FK, it would be hideously detrimental
to the power of Nick's story. Luckily, I don't think we have to worry
about that in LK -- though I won't find out for eight hours or so.
But in considering our views of LC, it might be significant to consider
when we came in, and why. I once joked that, considering how we use the
"brought across" metaphor for becoming fans, that we all have
master/fledgling relationship with the season, or even the episode, which
brought us over. I'm here for Nick's quest. And I came in only this
season: NiQ. Thus, by the time I saw DK I already had the characters
carved out in my mind by their subsequent development. I first met
Janette in HF, and I will never be able to regard her except as a person
capable of taking on Nick's quest. I cannot but build my interpretations
of FK backward from the time I discovered it. Instead of railing against
the "softening" of the character this season, I have to rationalize its
harshness in first season.
In fact, it seems to me that we are facing an interesting interpretive
dilemma with LK. Do we regard it as indeed the final piece of canon, the
bookend to DK? Will we then take the FK story as a single unit and reason
out the pieces that led logically to this end? Or will we assume that the
story is neverending, and thus that LK need not be the culmination of
anything at all?
I know we'll use both as it suits us.
But the point of this post is supposed to be AtA, and Sandra's view of LC.
Sandra writes:
>Oh, poor LC! I don't see why people are so taken with LC's "pain."
:) Because we identify with him. Because we admire him. :)
LC has done many evil things in the course of his life. For those of us
who believe in sin, we know that LC's sins weight down his soul as surely
as Nick's burden his. The difference is that Nick is aware of his
situation. LC has long striven to appear that he is not. Or, perhaps, he
truly is not. Why, then, do we like LC? That's why I thought of
redeeming him, you know; it's much easier to explain liking his potential
for good. :)
But for some people, sin does not exist, or it is relative, and LC may be
taken entirely on his own terms. This is where AtA becomes quite
profound for our individual understandings of LC. Previously, we had
every reason to believe that LC was pretty near perfect by his own
standards. Now, we know that he has felt burdened all these centuries by
what he did, and did not do, to his daughter.
While this is a stunning revelation for those of us who wish LC to embrace
his humanity (the tag! the tag! <swoon>), it should be a blow to those who
have taken LC completely on his own terms, holding him above common
morality -- if there are in fact any such. I'm not certain there are.
Sandra pointed out the incongruity (I believe she called it "hypocrisy"
<g>) of people who reject Nick's guilt admiring LC's. This is a valid
point, although I'm not sure anyone has criticized Nick in that area
since AtA aired. Were they stunned into silence? Or into reevaluation?
Or is it only "first-season Cousins" who can condemn LC's human side?
Leaving LC frozen as he was first season would have been a mistake,
because it would have left Nick frozen as well. Inertia, I suppose, has
made all of the characters tend toward the center. As they have become
more complex, they have also become less extreme. As much as I adore
Nick, when was the last time he brought food to homeless kids, or some
such? He's murkier than he was to begin with, and so are they all. By
the requirements of canon, all previous portrayals of LC must now be
interpreted in the light of AtA's revelations. Yes, that does deprive us
of the ability to argue that he is completely evil -- "Even I have my
limits, Divia." But it gives us something much better.
It gives us Nick, learning to forgive. It gives us Nick, reaching out
beyond himself, concerned about another's pain. AtA, in revealing LC's
human side to Nick, is a profound jolt to all of his perceptions and
presumptions. I only hope it jolts him in the right direction.
Someone wrote that Francesca, AtA, and LK form a story arc. Perhaps. But
I think the more powerful trilogy will prove to be LK, AtA, and HF. I
hope it will, anyway. Janette embraced Nick's quest; LC acknowledged
Nick's "resurgent goodness" and the power of his quest; now all we need
is Nick's place in that progression.
~~~~~~~~~~
(And now, a moment with my third affiliation:)
> So now that he has this "pain" over
> Divia, that supercedes Fleur being a big affect on his character?
Of course not! Has someone been putting down Fleur's
importance? "Send them over here, and we can have a little talk," said
the Fleur-Booster....
> >but what about her (Fleur) resemblance to Divia?
> Yes, let's relate all we learned of LC in AtA to *every* past episode...
Ummm... Sandra? Wasn't that *your* theory? You know, the one
where Janette is equivalent to Selene, and Nick represents some lost
mortal brother or lover? Just checking... :)
~~~~~~~~~~
Has anyone noted how extremely cool it was to have a LC/Reese scene? :)
*** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@m.......) ***
"Now cracks a noble heart. Good night, sweet prince;
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!" -- W.S.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 21:17:27 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight
Just saw it.
It wasn't as bad as I expected it to be, actually, but I've been reading
the spoilers so I at least knew what was going to happen.
The character development wasn't out of the question, but it was so ...
sudden.
There's no way I can do a complete spoiler post on this thing. Not for a
while anyway.
One nitpick: I thought LC said "ripe peach" at the beginning and then
"freshest peach" at the end. Am I right? Or did I hear the first one
wrong?
One irrelevancy: Tracy's hair was still bad. Nick's looked sorta cute in
the scene with the firelight shining up on his face, but looking at the
clips, I like him with short hair better. With the contrast, I just
realized how much prettier Cath's hair is now than first season. (Don't
read that as a putdown -- I've always thought she's gorgeous. She's just
more gorgeous like this.)
One other irrelevancy: How hard do you suppose it was for Ger and Cath
not to crack up in that real serious scene where he's talking with his
fangs in? We know that they have to loop the dialogue in since the vamps
sound like Daffy Duck trying to talk around their teeth. Must have been
a lot of takes.
That tear at the end was *definitely* clear. Yes, I know that in reality
it was just Ger emoting, but in the story..... ?? Very interesting.
This is not a final chapter, not by a long shot.
Sarah
Cleopatra
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 22:50:54 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Last Knight
>That tear at the end was *definitely* clear. Yes, I know that in reality
>it was just Ger emoting, but in the story..... ?? Very interesting.
>This is not a final chapter, not by a long shot.
Is there canon on the tear issue? I thought this was from the Anne Rice
novels that Fanfic had borrowed since we have never seen a vamp cry on FK.
Perhaps in the FK universe all the tears are clear. What sayist thou?
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie AKA Carrie the Cruel
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 22:24:41 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: vampire tears -- LK but no real spoilers
On Sat, 18 May 1996, Carrie Krumtum wrote:
> Is there canon on the tear issue? I thought this was from the Anne Rice
> novels that Fanfic had borrowed since we have never seen a vamp cry on FK.
> Perhaps in the FK universe all the tears are clear. What sayist thou?
Gotta admit, most of the examples I can think of are fanfic. :) We know
that vampires *sweat* blood on FK. I really feel like we have seen a
blood tear in at least one episode, but I can't come up with a name.
Anyone else know?
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 23:10:59 -0400
From: Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject: SPOILER:LAST KNIGHT/COUSIN MEL IS PISSED!!!!!!!!
Well, so much for future tv movies! I mean how can you have a Forever
Knight or even a Forever LaCroix with only Uncle and Captain Reese left?
I'm hoping that we get to have a Bobby Ewing in the shower type of ending
(esp. if its Nick or Uncle in the shower :D) cause that's the only way we
have a show.
Right now, I'm just venting some of my NatPacker frustration. I wasn't too
broken up when they said Tracy Vetter passed away 20 minutes ago, but once
again we can attribute everything to Nick's fault. I am just so damned
pissed off, its not funny. If Nat was gonna die., we could of at least seen
Her and Nick attempt to make love. But noooo! Our Nat is dead because once
again $#$%^&%&@#$@#$@#$ Nick #%$#%#%^ up! And then the coward had to go
and whack himself off,. but was to chicken to do it himself, he had to go
and ask Uncle to do it for him!!!!!
And of Course this is major Nick angst ep. "Tracy is dead because of what I
am." No, Tracy is dead because of some whacko Idiot with a gun and if she
hadn't just let Nick hypnotise him, she'd be alive. And of course he tries
to bring her across....
Ughhhh!!!!!
Can we just say the last episode was ashes to ashes!?
I am now happily (or is that unhappily)joining Dame Marci in 2nd/3rd season
limbo.
I will provide some intelligent comments when I settle down and sober up!
Is this TPTB's revenge for SOS FK?
Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Chiante Drinking Member of the Thong Throng*
*High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved*
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a......., or CousinMel@p.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 23:57:19 -0400
From: Roxanne Piccen <RoxanneP@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight
Well, forty minutes until LK airs in my area. On the one hand,
I'm dreading it and on the other hand, I just want it to be over
with. I would like to thank everyone who has seen the ep in
advance for providing the detailed spoiler info, so that some of
us are prepared in advance for what is to come.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
I have to say that when I read the t.v. listing that said Nick and Nat lose
a close mutual friend, I thought it would be Tracy. Then when I found
out Tracy gets killed later on, I figured the way TPTB are having characters
die left and right that the "friend" would either be Capts. Stonetree or
Reese. After all, they wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to off another
regular character. :-p
BTW, didn't someone say that Gillian Horvath thought that LK wasn't that
bad? I don't remember if she said she *liked* it or not, but considering
what we know about the deaths in this episode, why would she say that?
Roxanne ---> Cleopatra - "Nobody Ever Dies"
RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work)
*****************************************************************************
Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 23:43:28 -0400
From: Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject: Re: vampire tears -- LK but no real spoilers
Sarah wrote:
>Gotta admit, most of the examples I can think of are fanfic. :) We know
>that vampires *sweat* blood on FK. I really feel like we have seen a
>blood tear in at least one episode, but I can't come up with a name.
>Anyone else know?
We saw Serena cry blood tears in "Baby Baby" after she killed Trilling and
was unsuccessful in becoming pregnant and mortal
Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Chiante Drinking Member of the Thong Throng*
*High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved*
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a......., or CousinMel@p.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:50:35 -0400
From: Beth Brown <BKBVA@a.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Last Knight
In a message dated 96-05-18 23:00:18 EDT, you write:
>That tear at the end was *definitely* clear. Yes, I know that in reality
>it was just Ger emoting, but in the story..... ??
>Is there canon on the tear issue? <snip> we have never seen a vamp cry on FK.
>Perhaps in the FK universe all the tears are clear. What sayist thou?
I was not going to get into this issue, but I couldn't stand it any more.
Not that I have the answer. However, it had been bothering me since I saw
it, so here is what I finally did. See if anyone agrees with me:
At the end of "Baby, Baby", atop the CN tower, I think Serena is crying. And
there is something streaming down the left side of her face, and it's very
dark. A blood tear? Or just something wrong with my copy of the tape?
*Please*, someone else look at it and tell me what they think.
Just more fuel for the fire.
Beth
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:09:24 -0400
From: "Lori A. Martello" <LoriArgyll@a.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Last Knight
Spoiler Space
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
After all the spoilers I read I thought LC staked Natalie for Nick...I've
just rewatched the end several times and froze the frame where LC lifts the
stake...and there is no way that
he is staking Natalie...Its Nick he gets..the stake is directly lined up with
Nick's back..and the "Damn You Nick" I interpretted as Nick finally beat
LC...made a friend of him.
Lori
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:04:05 +6
From: Don Fasig <phase3@g.......>
Subject: SPOILER: LK: Damn!
I have not yet read any spoilers for this episode. Now that I've seen
Last Knight I must post this before I do read any else I'll not get it out
at all.
Damn! Damn! DAMN!
I've got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Boy, when they put the
kibosh on a series, they do it with a vengeance. They sure didn't leave
us much wiggle room did they?
Don Fasig
Prepared to be convinced that it isn't as bad as it seems.
phase3@g.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:17:59 -0400
From: Bobbie Williams <UserKnight@a.......>
Subject: Last Knight--Another emotional response
It's 2:00 a.m. I just saw LK about three hours ago, and, hopefully, I will be
excused for this rather emotional post.
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
This isn't really a spoiler--but I just had to get add this to the outpouring
of thoughts and emotion that this episode will no doubtedly unleash--besides,
a friend of mine tells me it can be very therapeutic to put things in
writing--to put them to rest.
Well, it's over, isn't it. I swore I wouldn't watch, but in the end I
couldn't let it go--I couldn't let go of this TV show in which I and so many
others had invested so much time, effort and emotion.
It was pretty much what I'd expected (I'd only seen one major spoiler before
tonight). In all fairness, the episode was beautifully written and acted. The
characters were intriguing. The story was interesting and I liked the
philosophical undertones of the concept of "faith." But I didn't see anyone
I recognized.
I didn't see the strong, self-confident Nataile from "Only the Lonely." The
woman who was determined to cure the man/vampire she loved. Who was the
first to tell him when he was wrong, and until this season, the first to come
to his defense when he was right.
I didn't see Nicholas, the vampire/cop, searching for his mortality, for his
redemption. The vampire who, in "Near Death" was certain that the path to
salvation laid among "the living." The man who knew, deep in his heart, what
true love is, not only for Nat, but for humanity in general.
I didn't see the possessive/obsessive LaCroix, who would stop at nothing to
keep Nick at his side for eternity.
In the end, I understood why the characters acted as they did. I understood
how the recent series of events had sent them down the paths they chose. I
can relate to Nat's loneliness, to Nick's need to love and to be loved. I
understood LaCroix's need for companionship and his fear of living alone for
eternity.
I cried for these characters. I cried for the demise of a show I dearly
loved and for which I had fought so hard to save. I cried for the actors who
must've been feeling the loss as we all are. But I'll never know what
happened to "my" Nat, "my" Nick or "my" LaCroix. Perhaps it's best this way.
Please excuse the ramblings. As I said, I've only seen the episode once, and
I'm not sure when I'll watch it again. Perhaps I'm totally wrong, but at
2:15 a.m.--it feels pretty right.
Bobbie
Mourning the Knight
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:21:31 CDT
From: "OREL, SARA" <FA55@n.......>
Subject: spoiler: LK
I usually haven't been too worried about spoilers, but other than
knowing in a general way what the show was about, I did avoid the
spoilers this time around (and I am on digest, so to avoid LK spoilers
and to read the AtoA ones has taken effort).
I thought I would hate it, actually, and I didn't LIKE it too much, but
I can accept it. I was comfortable with Nick's killing Nat, lying to
her actually. It is in-character for him, all the way through, knowing
better than the woman of the week what is best for her life.
Disappointing that he applied this to Natalie, but really quite in
character. I think he was considering bringing her across, but he just
couldn't do it. Nor would he be able to kill himself, either, which is
why he relies on Lacroix to do it for him. I am not sure how it would
play, but I am pretty comfortable that Lacroix would not have done that
-- it is time for Nick to take some responsibility for his own life,
don't you think?
It seems reasonable for the older one to simply turn and walk out,
perhaps going to look for Janette?
Anyway, if Lacroix did kill Nick, he might start to doubt his own
standards (and tell me, who honestly believes that Lacroix was telling
the truth when he said that he had seen too much to have faith? He
looked as though he was lying, and we have seen him have faith prior to
this point, haven't we? questioning, but having the faith to question)
So tell me, what did Nigel say he thought happened at the end?
And if everyone besides Lacroix (and Janette, too, by the way) is dead,
then I really really really like the explanation that someone made of
the "arc" of the show (I realize this is no Babylon 5, but there is
nothing else like Babylon 5, so I just shrug and go back to normal tv),
which is that there is no redemption, and the whole show is the triumph
of dark and despair, and death being the only successful end, over the
optimism and misplaced idealism of Nick's feelings about humans.
Well it is late at night, summer finally (a long evening of wine under
the stars), and the cat has discovered the neighborhood cats; they are
howling at each other through the screens... Time for bed.
As someone ended with Horatio's elegy for Hamlet, I suggest another:
My rage is gone;
And I am struck with sorrow. ...
...
Beat thou the drum, that it speak mournfully;
Trail your steel pikes. Though in this city he
Hath widow'd and unchilded many a one,
Which to this hour bewail the injury,
Yet he shall have a noble memory.
Aufidius on the death of Coriolanus.
_Coliolanus_ Act V, Scene VI
Thou hast done a deed whereat valour will weep.
Sara Orel
FA55%nemomus@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:51:34 -0500
From: Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: "Sorcha's Discovery" --They're NOT DEAD -- canon proposal
We're over on the Undernet Channel, and we've decided to name the following
"Sorcha's Discovery." (If someone else has spotted this earlier, sorry, I
haven't been reading the spoilers.)
Nick was crying because he thought Nat was dead. But they were HUMAN tears.
Nick was mortal. Like Jeanette, he drank from the mortal he loved and then
seemingly lost them, and became mortal. That's why he didn't hear a heartbeat.
So. Nat's not dead, or LC wouldn't have suggested bringing her across.
And Nick's mortal.
I say, LC couldn't bring himself to kill Nick.
So that is a theory that leaves it open, and it's a theory that (as Chana
said on the channel) I can cling to "like lichen to a stone."
I also say that this is the equivalent of LC staking Nick but not killing
him to gain himself time to solve the problem. The show is dead, but ripe
for further production. Good job Jim!
---- TJ
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:49:23 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight
I really don't know where to begin.
It is the problem of pain, not closure, that strikes me as being at the heart
of this ending. How much pain have we seen these characters go through? In
life, in love, in death. Perhaps you all will think me crazy, but, having
just experienced the pain of loss to death, I did not find the ending so
terrible.
I found Nick's solution to be...noble.
I'm not saying that I agree with his decision. I'm just saying, that from a
certain point of view, his choice was valiant. Choosing, as he did, to walk
away from the darkness, with a faith that there was something better on the
other side. Assuming he truly believed that, regardless of the accuracy of
the theology, his choice was an honorable one.
And LaCroix.... I find myself thinking of him very differently than I did
just two short weeks ago. I'm not sure what I think now. I FEEL...sorrow for
him. What will his next choice be? I wonder....
I think that I would feel very much as Natalie did. The risk would be more
than worth it for me. Her faith, her needs, her love seemed all too clear and
understandable. If there is strength, true strength in the world of FK, she
possessed it.
Whether you choose to believe that the characters die or somehow escape that
fate, the decisions they made, all of them, seem to me to be, at least so
soon after witnessing them, noble and honorable in the extreme.
Perhaps later, when I find myself able to stop crying, I will have more to
share. Now, I am too sad to say much more. Sadness is not necessarily a bad
thing. For me, it is a release. I will cry somemore, and remember my own
pain. Really good story telling always makes its mark on the emotions of the
listener, always. This then, WAS really good story telling.
Carrie
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:55:34 -0500
From: Lady Sushi <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Last Knight: Did Nick die?
L
A
C
R
O
I
X
,
T
H
E
B
L
A
C
K
A
N
G
E
L
What, you expect ME to put in normal spoiler space? :)
Well, just finished watching Last Knight. Truly, a B7 ending if
I've ever seen one. And that brings up the inevitable question: did Nick die?
In my never completely humble opinion, no. LaCroix chose to damn
him, rather than let him be with Nat in whatever way. Lecture to follow.
LaCroix assumed for so long that he was not only Nick's devil, but
evil incarnate, that he came to believe that. Yes, he had faith, but it was
in himself; Ashes to Ashes proved exactly how shaky that faith is, though,
and Divia's visit turned the foundation to sand. LaCroix is trying
desperately to keep that sand from running away. He has to believe he is
the devil, or he is nothing; in his reality, he is. In Nick's, though,
which is the swaying factor in LK, he's only a misguided
mentor-turned-reluctant student. Nick called LaCroix a friend (I have to
admit, however, I expected him to say father; recent developments have
changed that possibility, however, and Nick has become more of the father
figure). LaCroix, expecting to be called evil, *believing* he was evil,
couldn't handle it. He snapped, he raged, and for a moment he considered
killing Nicholas.
At the last second, he realized that was what Nick wanted: escape in
any way possible. He may have believed that Nick said that only to anger
him. LaCroix's reality had shifted irrevocably. He would never again be
the man he'd made himself into. What did he have to live for?
I think Lacroix plunged the stake into his own heart. The evil he'd
surrounded himself with (the same thing which may have kept Divia alive for
so long) was gone. He'd died before, maybe he'd stay dead, maybe he
wouldn't. When it all came down, LaCroix was left as a child, lost as his
world washed away. Maybe a single pearl of something stayed for a moment,
when he almost killed Nick, but he let it go when he realized that all that
was inside was sand.
* Cousin "Susan" Phoenix * Camera Fanatic of the Thong Throng * LA *
* Charter Unnamed * Cold Shower Sisterhood * SKLed Miklos * Darkest Knightie *
* NatPack Sympathizer * Queen of I Need Sleep * Hot Flash Disguised as a Woman
*
phoenix@i.......
**Faciemus ut Dewus Mountainus e Tuo Nasone Exeat!**
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 03:18:26 -0500
From: Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: Um ... sorry!
I think I violated a list rule with a revealing subject line.
Mea culpa! Temporary brain cell loss caused by ... well, we all know
what it was caused by. At least it was on the right list!
---- TJ
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 05:11:21 -0300
From: "l.d. steele" <aa300@f.......>
Subject: Spoilers: Last Knight, Fever and blood tears (long!)
Forever Knight has been inconsistent in the matter of tears. Serena in
"Baby, Baby" seems to cry blood tears at the end, but... I distinctly
remember Nick crying once before in his loft and it wasn't blood.
ARGH! The episode name is on the tip of my tongue. Second season ep --
I'd check but I loaned the entire season away and they haven't given it
back yet.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't really have the heart at the moment to start writing :) and <g>
everywhere. Please just assume that I don't mean to offend anyone.
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
for
last
knight
--------------------------------------
I was at a "Last Knight" wake/party when I saw it. Definitely the best
place to be. I had read all of the spoilers, including the very detailed
ones. I know exactly what was going to happen and I'm glad I did -- it
allowed me to distance myself better emotionally.
I've never cried over TV characters before, and I didn't cry during "Last
Knight". My throat got sore, and my eyes watered, but that doesn't count.
One of my roommates was there with me at Lynn Stapelton's place (thank
for having us, Lynn!). I force her to watch FK occasionally, but she's
not a diehard fan. She knows the characters and has watched maybe... 8 or
9 episodes total. I asked her what she thought of "Last Knight".
(paraphrasing)
Heather thought it fit. The story arc within the loop tied it all
together. She thought it was a good episode, and that the ending made
sense. Of course she also made remarks about Nick acting without thinking
things through, but that was just his character.
She thought the ep could have done w/o the LC scenes throughout the
episode, but overall? She liked it.
***
But what about me?
Objectively speaking, it was a good episode. I was all ready to
rationalize everything away, but Tracy (at least as far as Last Knight is
concerned) is dead, cold and in a morgue.
I don't believe Nick became human at the end due to Natalie's love/blood.
I do believe that she would have accepted becoming a vampire, and that
Nick couldn't accept that.
Nick. I'm sorry, but the Knighties just lost completely the faint shreds
of Knightiedom within my fannish heart.
Warning!: I'm disappointed, it's 5am and <negative> Nick analysis follows.
He didn't listen to what she was saying. Nick could not face bringing her
across. Natalie, over the course of the 3 seasons, has lost her brother,
her goddaughter, and two close friends -- all violently. Would she have
enjoyed being a vampire? I don't really think so. She was reacting from
pain, anger and love.
Natalie may have spent the next thousand years trying to make a wall
around her heart so that she couldn't be hurt by humans, but so what?
Nick acted in character.
Sandra: I don't want to fight -- I probably won't reply to this email.
Nick has never been able to control himself. The <one> example we have on
him taking "sips" finally ended with a big slurp. I always thought that
that woman was his "trial meal" to see if he could control his hunger.
After that failed, he probably felt his customary guilt and didn't bother
to practice. Result? He probably saw some fascinating images in Nat's
blood, couldn't stop and plonk! "I took too much."
Nick has always wallowed in guilt, and takes the blame for things he is
<not>, as well as the things he <is> responsible for. This is not a
characteristic I particularly admire. Yes it is "chivalrous", and yes it
is what makes him what we term a "good" vampire, but it blinds and
hampers him. As a result, he makes decisions for others w/o taking into
account what <they> want. He chooses and they pay. Nick decided what was
<best> for Natalie.
Nick withholds the truth, and then doesn't. He tells all in tricky
situations but then doesn't tell in situations where it might do some good.
"1966", "Forward into the Past", "Dying to Know You", "Let no man
tear Asunder", etc. He tells. Whoopee! But then in situations where it
would <help> he just walks away and leaves them to fend for themselves.
How many people (I absolve the Knighties) wanted to just smack him when
he left Tracy with a dead Vachon in "Ashes to Ashes"? He <could> have
"trusted her". It wasn't like in BB where he didn't know if she could
keep a secret.
I'm not going to go on. I don't want people to think that I hate Nick. I
don't. In some ways, I admire him. If I didn't, I couldn't write fanfic
about him.
I see Nick, and (due to GWD's great acting) I see a character with both
good and bad traits. Someone who has let the past 800 years of his
existence drag him down instead of remembering the good and accepting the
bad.
Nick chose to die rather than bring Natalie across. In the end, he found
the faith he so desperately desired.
Let me state quite clearly here my opinion on what Nick has always
wanted: absolution. He enjoyed being a vampire but it weighted down his
soul with guilt. He belived in a sole God and the belief of the Dark Ages
of irredemable sins. Once Nick started to try and be "good", he couldn't
deal with the "decay" in his soul.
Nick's quest for humanity was a tool, a eupherism for what he truly
wanted. When he thought he could get into heaven w/o going the humanity
route (Near Death), he jumped at it.
In the end, Nick won.
Vachon is dead, senselessly.
Urs is dead, senselessly.
Tracy is dead, senselessly.
Natalie is dead, senselessly.
Nick, before he died, regained his faith. His quest was over.
In essance, Natalie sacrificed herself on the altar of Nick's conscience
and he found a point that he could not cross.
Janette is now a vampire again after tasting love and mortality. LaCroix
has just killed his daughter for the second time, and with the death of
Nick, is all alone -- something he probably fears. Of all the characters
introduced into the series, I believe Nick is the only one who won.
------------------------
I'm going to bed now. I'm sorry if this post isn't very rational, but I
did my best.
In the future fanfic, I will probably rationalize "Last Knight" away like
a trooper. Right now, at 0505 am, I can't.
Dawn
h36a@u....... or aa300@f.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 04:23:23 -0400
From: Marjorie Hammet <Mgleaf@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK Details from Laura
>What say we just chalk this whole episode up to one of Nick's guilty dreams?
>Or even LaCroix'?
That's certainly one of my interpretations of it. At least the part starting
with Nick coming back into the loft and finding Natalie there.
More later, maybe, when I can stand it. If I can stand it.
Sorry, Powers That Be, but you can do better than this.
Margie (mgleaf@a....... or treeleaf@i.......)
(Apologizing ahead of time for what might be a duplicate post. The mail
server for the on-line service I normally use for e-mail is down. I can send
stuff to it, but then it just sits there.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:36:39 -0700
From: Idalia Kakesako <idaliak@i.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight
I don't know which ending would've been worse: the so-called ambiguous
one we were given here, or the one in which Nick was shown reacting to
being staked (i.e., dying).
As much as I hate to accept it and as much as I'll probably end up
buying into the Cheesy Rationaliztions of others ... from the dialogue
in this episode, from the emotional reactions of the characters, I'd
have to say that Nick and Nat are dead.
Maybe LaCroix refused to kill Nick, maybe Nick didn't finish off
Natalie ... but I dread seeing a sequel to this episode in which Nick
and LaCroix are merrily living their vampire lives in a new city,
acting as if nothing between them had changed. *Everything* has
changed.
LC was *crying* here! A creature many have characterized as pure evil,
as having no empathy ... he revealed himself in these last two episodes
as not being so very different from the mortals he claims to despise.
(A trait, BTW, which endears him to me, allowing me to call myself a
Light Cousin and not a person who absolutely hates him. Obviously, I
am one who liked having LC made 3 dimensional via "Be My Valentine" and
the last two episodes.)
And now I must sort out the rest of my reactions to this episode. I do
feel it's important to note that, from reading the LK script Laurie so
graciously posted, I was concerned that LC would be portrayed as his
old, one dimensional, first season self. I'm happy that Mr. Bennett
chose to give those harsh-sounding lines a more compassionate reading.
Idalia Kakesako <idaliak@i.......>
Light Cousin, NatPacker, N&NPacker
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:43:53 -0700
From: Angie <alasher@e.......>
Subject: Why Nat isn't dead
Well, just this thought -
If Nat was dead, why did Nick still hear her heartbeating AFTER he had
withdrawn his fangs from her neck?
SO what happened after we pulled away and LC said "Damn you Nicholas"???
LC rendered Nick unconsious (which was easy to do, since he is now mortal
again - yes those were *clear* tears he was crying). He brought Nat over
whilest our boy Nicky was down on the ground. When Nat wakes up, her love
for Nick will change her back somehow, and even if she doesn't revert
naturally, they can find the antivirus in Nick's blood and grow it for Nat.
How cares if this is wrong, this is the way I am going to think about it
from now on. And I will never buy another Sony product till the day the
first FK movie shows up on the Sci Fi channel, nor will I ever pay to see a
movie that either they or TriStar put out.
Lasher - wishes the PTB would all drop dead.
=====================
@-->-'- http://home.earthlink.net/~alasher
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/5069 --<-'-@
=========================================================================
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
