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FKSPOILR

Logfile LOG9605 Part 37

May 19, 1996

File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 37

	TOPICS:
	"Sorcha's Discovery" --They're NOT DEAD -- canon proposal
	Spoilers: Last Knight, Fever and blood tears (long!)
	Spoiler: Last Knight  (2)
	SPOILER: Last Knight  (2)
	SPOILER: Last Knight & Denver Party
	Spoiler LK: Comments
	SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT-- WATCH THOSE SUBJECT LINES!
	Spoiler LK: misogyny
	Spoiler:  Last Knight & waves
	Last Knight:  Did Nick die?
	SPOILER: ATA/LK Question
	Last Knight Spoiler: Tracy
	SPOILERS: LAST KNIGHT Rationalizations! Get your red-hot rationalizations here! :>  (2)
	Grief--AtA/LK spoilers
	vampire tears -- LK but no real spoilers

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 04:45:13 -0400
From:         Marjorie Hammet <Mgleaf@a.......>
Subject:      Re: "Sorcha's Discovery" --They're NOT DEAD -- canon proposal

In a message dated 96-05-19 02:37:37 EDT, vanguard@p....... (Cyberspace
Vanguard Magazine) writes:

>Nick was crying because he thought Nat was dead.  But they were HUMAN tears.
>Nick was mortal.  Like Jeanette, he drank from the mortal he loved and then
>seemingly lost them, and became mortal.  That's why he didn't hear a heartbeat.
>.... So.  Nat's not dead...And Nick's mortal.

It almost works.  Except, why would LaCroix have acted like he was going to
stake Nick?  Keep working on it.  We need something.

My proposal is that Nat isn't dead.  She's in some sort of shock from the
violent visions she got of Nick.  It's not at all what she expected.  Nick
thinks he took too much because if anything doesn't go smoothly, he's
naturally going to think he did something horrible.  LaCroix thinks Nick took
too much, but that's LaCroix'  wishful thinking.  Afterwards, when he
realizes Nick wants to die, he's paying attention to Nick, not Natalie.  As
Nick's closest friend, LaCroix might have been able to do what Nick wanted
and kill Nick (after the reconciliation in AtA), but as Nick's father, he
just couldn't do it.
At the last moment, he sends the stake in some other direction.  Nick takes
Natalie into his arms, and she opens her eyes.  Nick and Natalie are both
alive, and we go on from here.

Unfortunately, with the way TPTB treated us with this episode, one of them
will probably tell us that Natalie really is dead.

Margie (mgleaf@a....... or treeleaf@i....... if Illuminati Online ever gets
their mail server fixed)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 04:49:00 -0400
From:         Stuart Drucker <StuartDruc@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoilers: Last Knight, Fever and blood tears (long!)

I don't want to just say "ditto" to l.d. steele, but she really hit a
bullseye there (yep, Lacroix looked pretty definitive at the end). From
Lacroix's perspective, he put his feelings about Nick ahead of his own
utilitarian ethic (as versed by his questioning of faith and attitude toward
Natalie's condition)). He's the one who ultimately loved someone enough to
"set them free".

As much as I hate the ending, I can't help but appreciate the depth in
character that Sadowski and GWD put into the production. We've got three
different POV here: Lacroix's stoicism (very Roman),  Nick's unreconstructed
medieval dualism of heaven and hell, and Natalie's romantic but hopeless
love. They do an excellent job of putting you into the mind of these people,
so that you can almost say that IS a Dark Ages Crusader would act after 800
years. If the series was to be put to rest, it was a lot more interesting
script than just a happy ending.

Funny to think that our favorite vampire show was a morality play after all.
I agree that Nick was pretty selfish about his redemption, and thus
completely in character. The ending's so ambiguous  that even Lacroix could
be considered "redeemed", if accepting Nick's free will counts. Personally,
I'd be a lot more interested in seeing where Lacroix's character would go
from here than whether Nat is across, or Nick was really staked.

I'd hate to have faith in a God that would redeem someone that just killed
his greatest love, though.  Somehow, a think a little more than an "instant
of atonement" would be good enough. On that note, back to sleep.

Stuart Drucker
stuartdruc@a.......
sdrucker@p.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 05:05:33 -0400
From:         Marjorie Hammet <Mgleaf@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Last Knight

>Choosing, as he did, to walk away from the darkness, with a faith that there
>was something better on the other side.

But Nick's problem wasn't learning how to die; it was learning how to live.
Nick has believed that being human will solve all his problems.  He's
believed that all he has to do to to be happy is to become mortal.  And of
course that's not true
If this show were not the ending, I think I might have liked it.  I am not
religious, but I know that Nick is, and I did like the idea that he finally
believed that God would forgive him.  I'm assuming that's what he did
believe,  because, as I interpreted it, he is willing to go into the
afterlife to be with Natalie forever, as he promised her.  If Natalie were
still alive, and Nick were now free of his fear of damnation, then he could
go on and live, and continue his search for mortality, since that huge fear
is no longer holding him back.
But to have Nick and Natalie just walk off into Heaven together, is, to me,
just a copout on the part of TPTB.  One of the things I liked about FK is the
complexity of it.  And if not every episode was as complex as every other
episode, the series as a whole was very complex.  To have Nick and Natalie just
die is terribly simplistic, and I feel betrayed by TPTB.

Margie (mgleaf@a....... or treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 05:18:48 -0400
From:         Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Last Knight

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Comments:

1. Thanks to whomever posted the script. (Sorry, foggy brain prevents me from
remembering who this was).  I wanted the preparation, got it, and was not
destroyed as I feared when I actually saw it.  Not that I feel good about it,
of course.  I watched the episode with two others who knew NOTHING about it
and they of course were totally stunned and shocked - and angry.

2. Marian Gibbons - thanks for your long post - you said most of what I feel.

3. Margaret Carter - my dear, we are ever so much closer in thinking than you
first thought!  Your proposal of what happened (LC staking Nick but Nick
coming back from that) is the premise of one of the two short post-LK stories
I've written this past week in trying to deal with this whole thing.  I've
thought of the LC-bringing-Nat-across part, but did not include that,
although I accept this as viable.

4. This episode was a mistake, start to finish.  In particular, I find
Natalie's 180 degrees attitude change/belief system change unacceptable.  I
can't believe she would ever put that much pressure on Nick in that
circumstance (he's just lost another partner).  NO ONE should be making life
decisions at times like that.  Okay, trauma and stress make people do weird
out-of-character things, but I can't accept that for the series finale of
this show.  I realize that the scene in "Francesca" in the morgue where Nick
describes sharing blood to Natalie was a set-up for this episode, but it is
precisely because Nick did describe that (take one sip, then another, then
another - you can see how difficult a habit it is to break, he says or words
to that effect).  It was a clear warning and her reaction showed that she
recognized that there was a down side to this sharing stuff.

I don't feel I can adequately say what I want to about Nick and LC in this
episode.  Others have said what I feel.  In short, I can't accept Nick opting
for an assisted suicide.  This whole series has been about LIFE, not death.
 I can't accept LaCroix complying with same.  It makes me want to refer to
this episode as "Divia's Victory" because it truly would leave LC as she
wanted him left - alone.  I can't see her winning after all that happened in
"Ashes to Ashes".

Instead of long treatises on this episode - I leave that to the eloquent
others - I write fan fiction.  I will be posting to FKFIC-L the two pieces I
wrote to work out my own intense feelings this past week.  Although I wrote
these before seeing the episode, I have since edited them to fit.

Pardon the cheesy titles:
"Past Night" - similar to Margaret Carter's scenario
"Next Knight" - an explanation of the episode as a nightmare.

Marcia Tucker
scfimarci@a.......
Dark Knightie / Immortal Beloved / Unnamed
NOBODY DIES - NOBODY DIED
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 06:10:13 -0500
From:         MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR <VQRW76A@p.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Last Knight & Denver Party

Well, I'm glad I was semi-intoxicated. One of those teeny bottles of white
zinfandel and two glasses of pink champagne managed to soften the blow from
a knife in the heart to a punch in the stomach.

And, of course, the wonderful company of Linda, Lisa, Peggy, Joe and Gay.
All of us were glad to be among friends and fellow fans when we watched
this. Incidentally, Ger's recipe for chocolate pizza is quite nice, though
next time we're going to use chocolate chips instead of unsweetened.

I'm commenting after only one viewing - can't manage to watch it again
*yet* - so if I miss something, it's understandable. Also, I haven't seen
any of the spoilers beyond the plot summaries posted a few months ago, so
if I repeat what everyone else has said, forgive me.

Direction: another nice job by Ger, but that fading back and forth in the
morgue from Nick to Natalie had me kind of dizzy (might have been the
alcohol, though).  Maybe too many clips; and Lacroix's weird monologue at
the beginning was kind of --- wooziness-inducing. [Would you call this man
to talk you off a ledge? I think not]

Acting: superb. Kudos to everyone on what must have been a difficult
episode, especially Catherine Disher.  And to whoever wrote Natalie's
"You'll bring her across, but you won't even consider it for me?"  Had to
be asked! Glad she finally did!!  Nick earns fifty Brick points for most of
his actions in this episode. [Peggy's comment: "Only a guy would answer the
phone in the middle of this kind of conversation"]

Linda was glad Tracy bought it. In fact, she was exultant. Still is. I was
bummed. What a waste! Again! I was mad they killed Urs last week for the
same reason---they could have done something good with the opportunity they
had, and they blew it to hell!! {Deep, cleansing breaths}  Tracy's death
scene with Nick was painful, great, I liked it---but then the actual
death--- was glossed over, covered up, so long don't let the door hit you
on the way out. Damnit. And Reese didn't even get a decent exit scene. Talk
about your dangling threads.

Lacroix's just leaving? He's that cocky, that sure Nick will leave with
him? He doesn't really know him at all, does he?

Doesn't Natalie have a life? Well? I mean, c'mon, this is pretty hard to
believe. She always seemed too rational to go this self-pitying,
frightened, bring-me-across-so-I-won't-be-alone route. Then again... she's
probably aware this is the one way to get Nick to do this, by putting it in
extreme terms.    I'm exaggerating my reaction here a bit --- she loves
Nick. [I still can't believe he didn't say I LOVE YOU! Brick!] And I don't
think she's afraid of being a vampire. But I do think she had more faith he
could just only take a little... but then, wasn't she listening in "Human
Factor"? It was Robert's death that completed the cure. Arghhhhh........

Linda comments that they didn't make love, they should have, and this might
have effected it too. She's got a point. And while the kissing was very,
very lovely, there wasn't enough. This ep had too many clips, not enough
 development.

**Bizarre thought. And given the continuity in this series, perhaps an
insignificant one. When Nick thought Natalie was dead, when he was crying
and talking to Lacroix---his tears were clear. Human. Maybe he got it.
Maybe he came back across right then.

But if you believe that Lacroix staked Nick, you were *not* paying
attention to the monologue. I'll believe that happened when they do a
TV-movie to that effect, which won't happen either, since, as some people
delight in reminding us, "the show is called Forever Knight"! No Knight, no
movie, no staking.

Best bet: Lacroix bops Nick on the head, and brings Natalie across.

I'm still kinda in shock.   Not so much from the episode and what happened
- Cleopatra Queen of Denial that's me, I'm fine, no problem--- but because
it is OVER. The series is DONE. And until they come up with a movie tying
up and settling all these questions, I'll be left wondering, and mourning,
and watching old eps.

We watched "I Will Repay" before & after "Last Knight", then popped in
"Unreality TV", which kind of mellowed out most of the audience to the
point where we could deal. A nice party, great people, good food.

And I'm still mad at TPTB. As is most of everyone else who attended. That
ending sucks, and not in a good way. Not because it's ambiguous (Linda's
happy with it, I can almost deal, Peggy's recovering, Lisa & Joe & Gay have
never seen all of first season so they still have good stuff ahead of them)
but it's just so---abrupt.  No dealing with the repercussions of Tracy's
death (her father, cleaning out her desk, anything). Lacroix just suddenly
decides to leave, and further depresses Nick into wanting to go.  Natalie's
ex-friend dies and leaves her a note that makes her desperate.

Linda and I just picked apart the above paragraph, and while we have
different opinions of the ep, we do agree that it was this abrupt so that
it could be TOTALLY ambiguous about whether Nick and Natalie are dead,
undead, or alive. The writers etc. didn't want to give the audience any
solid leads in any direction about the resolution of the series.

Damn them, anyway. If we never get a TV-movie, I will be seriously unhappy.

Christina   vqrw76a@p.......         Merc    FoFoD  Night Manager, CERK
"Death can not stop True Love"
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 03:25:36 +0000
From:         Lisa Wolters <redjasper@e.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Last Knight

Initial, just got home from a LK party reaction:
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Natalie: "All I have is faith, and love."

Me: And faith and love will get you killed.

What a hideous end to the show.  What a hideous final message from
a show that <was> about hope.

It was beautifully acted and filmed, but it was still hideous.  And I
decided on the long drive home just now that while I like it on the
detached level of "good tragedy," I am sick to my stomach over it as
being Forever Knight.


Lisa W. * redjasper@e.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 03:22:54 -0700
From:         "Eric L. Steglat" <thetiger@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Last Knight

Re: Jean Kennedy's response to Last Knight:
>
>S
>
>P
>
>O
>
>I
>
>L
>
>E
>
>R
>
>This was absolutely shattering. First reaction: God, they must hate us, to do
>this. As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing ambiguous about the ending.
<snip>
>My heart's breaking. I saw this at midnight, and I'm still in tears. (Very
>awkward -- what do you tell the people at the office? )
>
I saw the episode over a month ago. In fact, I saw it back to back with
Ashes To Ashes. How's that for a double feature?  All I can say is that the
pain does fade. I was seriously depressed for about three days, then I
started thinking up ways that they might not all be dead. And believe me,
there are ways to bring them all back.  Ex: Nat is brought across quickly by
LaCroix (who simply banged Nick on the head.) Believe me, there are ways to
"fix" the ending. I spoke to someone on the Production staff not long after
I saw it, and asked the same question you asked: "Do they really hate us
that much?" The answer I got back was "See the ending again..." The
implication is that they aren't really dead.
>
>Maybe I'll have a more rational reaction later. Right now I'm bitter and
>crushingly sad. Yeah, it was just a TV show. And I was just a fan.  LC was
>right about love. Damn him for it.
I saw a good quote in a Sig file about this. (Sorry I don't remember the
original poster)--"Yes, it was just a TV show, but it was the only one I
loved!"
The list is a good place for group grief therapy. I know, others here helped
me through my initial shock as well...
>
Jenn--The occasionally responsible Vaquera...
**************************************************************************
  "The Tiger"  From EarthLink Net  |          and "KitFox" (Jenn)
   "thetiger@e......."        |  "The longer I live, the more
Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright   |   attached to myself I get."             In
the Forest of the Night...  | Amanda...Highlander
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 06:47:16 -0400
From:         Diane Shea <KerrRaven@a.......>
Subject:      Spoiler LK: Comments

Last Knight spoilers to follow:

I fear this may be long.  Keep in mind that I haven't read anyone's thoughts
on this ep since Laurie's very detailed explanation of just what happens in
it.  BTW, I thank you greatly for doing that Laurie, it prepared me.

If you don't want to hear a *positive* review of this episode then bail out
now.  I don't know what everyone else's opinion of this one will be, but I'm
expecting it will be predominantly negative.  Since I don't see negativism at
this point to be in any way constructive, I'll attempt to find the good
things that have been given us during Last Knight.

As a pessimistic agnostic I probably have a rather different pov than a lot
of people.  I've always expected the worst.  In ways it gives me strength to
find the positive, instead of wallowing in the grief.

I don't hate this episode.  I find that it is beautiful, meaningful, and
*not* to be ignored.  My greatest fear of all is that it would be played out
of character.  I could forgive them *anything* as long as it made sense.  It
came close to the margin, but through the acting and direction, they pulled
it off.

I will not go into what I felt about what happened after the last scene
ended.  Since they left it arguably ambiguous you cannot in all fairness
discuss the fates of these characters without beginning all sentences with
"If we are to assume that..."  In some ways that does annoy me, but at this
hour I'm not going to worry about it.  They chose to do it that way, and we
can *never* say with certainty what happens after that last raising of the
stake.  Unless they make tv movies, another season, etc.

Regardless of what may or may not have happened afterwards, what we saw, the
emotions we were made to witness, was powerful.

Everyone made sacrifices in this one:
Nat chose to risk her life as a healthy mortal in order to make Nick into
what he desires to be.  She's prepared for whatever may come.  She will
accept whatever happens under one condition; that she be with Nick, either as
a vampire, as a human, or in an eternity that can only be reached through
faith.

Nick has finally taken her desires to heart.  He has gone beyond his fear for
her safety to see what she truly wants.  Now is the time for him to see this.
 Before, it was reasonable that he denied her.  Her requests were made in
moments of danger and emotion.  But now he sees she is thinking rationally,
and he would only be patronizing her if he brushed off her decision once
again.  He endangers her life at her request, and cannot be faulted for that.
 It is understandable that he failed in an attempt to do something of which
there is no manual on.  Just try to program one of these new VCR's for the
first time without reading the directions and see how far you get.  This is
much like that.  Janette was lucky.  Nick has never been lucky.  It's a
shame.  So Nick had a choice.  Nat wasn't too far gone, she could have been
made a vampire.  But that would have been selfish perhaps.  Perhaps not.  I'm
not here to judge.  In fact I have little opinion on it.  *He* felt it would
be wrong.  That's all I can go on.  So given his feelings he made an
honorable choice.  But he had a promise to keep, and a soul to appease.  He
needed to join Nat.

And this brings me to LaCroix.  If you've not noticed in the last few
episodes that LaCroix and Nick have been getting along much better, then
you've missed something very important.  Go back and discover this before
your next viewing of LK.  It's rather crucial to full circle effect of the
series.  Anyway, LaCroix has not changed in very many ways since Dark Knight,
except one.  One earth shatteringly important change has occurred within his
character.  It is not that he suddenly cares about Nick.  He has always cared
about Nick.  The Cousins knew this all the while, the Knighties have been
denying it adamantly (as is their job,) but it is impossible to maintain a
one dimensional view of LaCroix any longer, upsetting as that may be to some.
 The great difference in the LaCroix of Dark Knight, and the LaCroix of Last
Knight, is that he cares not only about Nick as his possession, son, brother,
lover (the list can be endless) but that he cares about what Nick *wants*.
 LaCroix is a selfish bastard most of the time.  But that makes his sacrifice
all the more stunning.  Ah, here come the "ifs".  If he went through with
what we saw him planning, (staking Nick at his request,) he has given to
mortality--to the side of a power greater than he is--his own beloved son.
 The son he has worked for centuries to keep as his own.  The son who he
would fight the devil for, and for whom he would acknowledge the possible
existence of God.  Not an easy task for an ancient Roman vampire.  LaCroix,
like Nick did for Nat, has finally taken the feelings and needs of the one he
loves seriously, even though it means letting him go.  And frankly, this says
a hell of a lot about love, about faith, and about how selfish bastard
vampires can change over time.

This is a very simple commentary, but I'm listening to Gravity Kills at 3:00
am and I don't want to get too deep in my mind or I might not get back again.


Closing statements:  The acting.  Superb.  I was trying not to cry so my
vision wouldn't be blurry and I wouldn't miss things.  Too bad that didn't
work.  If Nigel doesn't win another Gemini for Ashes, and Ger and Cathy don't
win some more for LK, then something is truly wrong in the world.  I felt the
pain and agony that Nick was going through as those tears welled up in his
eyes.  I'm amazed that Ger can both direct and give such a moving performance
all at once.  Damn fine actor.  The direction.  I was *really* worried about
the problems that Ger's infamously creative direction might cause in the last
of all eps, but I found I had no great problem with any of it.

The fact that the last episode is sad, and will probably disturb many a fan,
does have a positive side too.  It almost consecrates the whole series.
 Everything that has gone on previously cannot be taken lightly.  There is no
easy answer to the problems of life.  This show did not take the happy
sunshine road to glory.  It would have made me happier if it had.  I like a
happy ending, strangely enough.  But I am more moved by what they did here,
through the sacrifices that everyone had to make.  It is tragic, classic,
timeless.  I truly love all these characters.  Selfish bastard Cousins can
change too you know.

--Cousin Diane
Truly Eternal Seducer
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 07:29:33 -0500
From:         D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT-- WATCH THOSE SUBJECT LINES!

OK, people, our listmommy and Jaye are *obviously* off duty, so I'm taking it
upon myself to remind you:

DON'T PUT SPOILERS IN YOUR SUBJECT LINE, DAMMIT!

yes, I'm shouting. That's because I, and a lot of other people, have been
avoiding spoilers for LK for MONTHS... and then people go and put out subject
lines like "Why Nat isn't dead", "did Nick Die?", "They're not dead"...

THESE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS!  THEY DO NOT BELONG IN THE SUBJECT LINE!

Got it?

Diane E
Thoroughly ticked.  Flame me if you want, but do it private e-mail, becuase
you *won't* like the reply you'll get!
# D Echelbarger                          gryphon@e.......   #
#   WWW HomePage:       http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/      #
# No, I'm not Maureen the Mad; I just play her on Real Life.  #
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 08:44:35 -0400
From:         Catherine A Siemann <cas47@c.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler LK: misogyny

I

G

U

E

S

S

T

H

I

S

is still necessary, huh?

A one-note spoiler, since I have not even *begun* to process my feelings
about this episode.  Bless Laurie CF for throwing a large wonderful
LK party -- the recovery process was a lot easier that way.

But . . .

So Nat's life is empty . . . why?  She has a fascinating job, in which she
gets to feel of use to society.  She has friends (yes, we never see them
unless they're about to be killed off, but she was godmother to somebody's
child, and enough of her friends/colleagues pop up in order to die that
unless it's completely disproportionate, she must have many more), loved
ones (at the very least a surviving niece and sister-in-law), etc.  Oh,
but . . . no man.  Of course, the fact that she's been "waiting" for the
unattainable Nick all these years is probably a major factor in this.

I just don't buy it.  Nat has no life unless Nick becomes her lover?  A
woman's life is incomplete without a man?

Oh, and, lest we forget . . . meeting the right guy was all it took to
make Janette human again?  That strong, in-control vampire we all knew and
loved *really* just wanted to be a wife-and-mother?

Look, I'm not opposed to love and romance, I understand the great
happiness that relationships can bring, and I think that a lover,
a family *can* be a central and meaningful part of anyone's life.  But I
find something deeply offensive in the underlying thought process, here.
Nat was in shock over her friend's death, and she let it get to her.  She
was also dealing with her feelings for Nick and her frustration
that his "backsliding" since first season, and particularly this season,
was taking them further from the possibility of his cure that she seems
to have been banking on.  But I do not, cannot, believe for one moment
that Natalie had "no life".  And the Natalie we've seen for most of
Forever Knight had too much self-respect to think that either.

Words fail me.

Catherine
cas47@c.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 09:17:23 +0000
From:         "Laura W. Petix" <lpetix@d.......>
Subject:      Spoiler:  Last Knight & waves

I just finished my initial collection of "Last Knight" waves, and it's
now online at http://www.dpcc.com/dpcc/assoc/lpetix/waves/

I hope the waves I've chosen will comfort those who need comforting,
and at least not anger any one.  If my choices are upsetting, I
apologise.  To tell the truth, I've been a little bit shocked by some
of the reactions to this episode so far.  I enjoyed it very much, and
appreciated the way it made me *feel*.  There aren't many TV shows
that can do that.  Emotion is such a precious thing.  Be *thankful*
that you *can* feel--it's so much better than coldness.

Such brilliant, brilliant subtexts... how can you feel betrayed by the
writers of this?  The characters are so clearly speaking *to us*, as
well as to each other.  As a writer who has had to weepingly say
goodbye to some of my own characters, I can say that this is similar
to how I've expressed my love for the characters through the
characters' dialogue to each other.  Look at what they are saying to
us:

"I have faith that there *is* a future for us.  Here, as we are,
or somewhere else."

"She had faith in me--in what's beyond... that this would be a
beginning, not an end.  I have that faith, too."

"I won't leave you.  Whatever happens, we'll be together."
"Forever."

Laura WP
lpetix@d.......
Last Knight waves:  http://www.dpcc.com/dpcc/assoc/lpetix/waves/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 09:36:52 -0400
From:         Larissa Field <rfield@n.......>
Subject:      Re: Last Knight:  Did Nick die?

Last Knight Spoiler Ahead:








At 01:55 19/05/96 -0500, Lady Sushi wrote:

>        I think Lacroix plunged the stake into his own heart.  The evil he'd
>surrounded himself with (the same thing which may have kept Divia alive for
>so long) was gone.  He'd died before, maybe he'd stay dead, maybe he

After watching "Last Knight" at 12:05am, I went to bed extermely upset and I
found I couldn't sleep.  So I got up and watched it again.  With this second
viewing, I realized things weren't as bad as they seemed to be.  This is how
I interpreted "Last Knight":

First off, I agree:  Nick did not die.  However I do not think Lacroix drove
the stake through his own heart.  It seems to me that Lacroix either
realized he couldn't do what Nick asked or wasn't willing to do it.  I had
to look at the whole episode to realize this.  The answer lies in Lacroix's
monologue scenes that take place in Nick's loft.

I realized that his monologue begins with  the same "speech" that he gave to
Nick before he asked if Nick sees him as the devil.  It's the speech about
how he can't understand how someone would willingly take their own
life...Faith in something beyond and all that.  Continuing through the
monologue he talks of moving on, guilt, etc.  Lacroix is talking to someone,
but who?  In the last monologue scene, we see that Lacroix is actually
talking to Nick...

My point:  I believe that this one-sided conversation starts when Lacroix
walks into the loft and finds Nick and Nat--It begins with Lacroix telling
Nick abou how he can't understand why someone would commit suicide.  A small
portion of the conversation is cut from the monologue (namely, Nick telling
LC that he is his closest friend etc.)  The monologue picks up AFTER Lacroix
raises the stake: LC realizes he can't--or won't--kill Nick and proceeds to
talk him out of it...

If you follow this reasoning, then Nick *IS* still alive at the end of the
episode.  As for Nat, as I see it she hasn't yet died at the end of the
episode. I suppose Nick, or Lacroix for that matter, still has a chance to
bring her across... But never mind my cheesy theories on that matter.

All in all, I thought this episode was pretty good.  Yeah, you read that
correctly:  I liked it.  But then again, the way I saw it there is hope...

Larissa
<rfield@n.......>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 10:07:29 -0400
From:         Larissa Field <rfield@n.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: ATA/LK Question

Mild Spoiler for Last Knight Ahead








I'm sure this topic has been exausted enough, but I havew to ask:

It seems to me that just after Nick asks Tracy to finish up at the "crime
scene" so he can get Nat out of there, that Tracy had a reflective moment
where she seemed to relate to Nat's situation--loosing a friend to suicide.
Does anyone think it could be possible that she *remembers* what happened to
Vachon?  In other words, has LC gotten around to erasing or changing that
memory yet???

Just a thought.

Larissa
<rfield@n.......>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 07:41:58 -0700
From:         "Andrew E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject:      Last Knight Spoiler: Tracy

 Since most posts seem to be focussing on Nick and Nat I thought I'd take
a different slant and look at Tracy's death.
 Throughout the season she really grew on me, in a way that Schanke never
did. No offense to any fans at him, but I actually found him irritating.
Tracy however was a more likable character to me. Maybe because she
always seemed so unbeat.
 the scene where she got shot actually overshadowed Nick and Nat's. Of
course this also has a lot to do that it was done mor dramatically, what
with the blood on the wall and the hole in the chest.
 Very disturbing scene. Not something you want to see happen to someone
you actually like. and given her relationship with Vachon, her comment
that Nick could have trusted her was dead on. I never did understand
that: she could obviously be trusted with the vampire secret.
 It's a shame that if the show does return as a TV movie, she's the only
definitely dead character (from this ep anyway).
 -- Andy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 09:46:40 -0500
From:         D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject:      SPOILERS: LAST KNIGHT Rationalizations! Get your red-hot
              rationalizations here! :>

<sigh>

I watched it.   Held myself together through the whole thing (which is how *I*
deal with disasters) then started reading spoilers with Scott Bakula singing
the "Man of LaMancha" suite from the Quantum Leap CD... and I'm leaking like a
seive.  I'm gonna stop reading spoilers until I'm more in control.  And, to deal
with it, I'm gonna inflict all my rationalizations on y'all.  I sent this (with
much additional text) to a few friends.  I'm editing out the reactions and just
giving you the explanations... (be thankful)

Here we go....

That first flashback-- Last Act-- *very* nice the way they started it in B&W
and segued into color....

OK, at the third 'wierd distorted LC' flashback, I've decided this whole thing
is an LC-induced nightmare.  After all, he *says*, in effect, that it's an
object lesson to Nick...  and the effect is *much* too much like what they did
in "Curiouser and Curiouser", last season.

That's my rationalization, and I'm *sticking* to it! :P

<Funny, I feel *much* better now...  Nothing like a good rationalization to
cheer you up, huh?>

OK, empty Raven... Wait a minute, it's night... why's it empty?  And that bust
was smashed at Pompeii, dammit!  This is *definitely* a hallucination!

Hmm... is it just me, or does LaCroix seem even paler than usual? Because,
compared to him, Nick seems almost human-colored....  or maybe it's just the
lighting?

Nope, I still vote for the Curiouser & Curiouser solution....

Just occurred to me.. this season, they've been doing mortal flashbacks in B&W
(NIQ) and vampire in color... could we interpret the fact that Nick's *start*
B&W, then slide into color, to imply that he's *almost* mortal again?

OK, they *say* Tracy's dead, but they didn't *show* it... so I maintain that
Vachon revived, crawled up *out* of the dirt, and arrived in time to bring her
over.... Yup, that's what happened... Assuming this is real, which it isn't.

OK, so much for "the mortal doesn't get the vampire's memories"... *nice*
montage (yup, she's ignoring the obvious again!).  And of course, for the next
2 hrs, Nick will have all of Natalie's modern MD skills... could come in *very*
handy, no? <g>

Hey, wait a minute!   Nick's eyes are brimming with *human* tears!  No
question!  During LaCroix's soliloquie, his eyes have WATER tears in them!

So LaCroix's standing over Nick holding a stake.  Big deal. Yeah, like he's
gonna *voluntarily* kill Nick?  Assuming Nick's still a vampire, which he
*isn't*. So there. So, instead, LC bops Nick on the head, gives Nat a little
drink, and vamooses with her still-comatose-but-definitely-vampiric body.

For that matter, LC wouldn't even have to help Nat. I can see her standing at
that damn doorway from "Near Death" and *refusing* to go through. "No, I will
*not* go on! Nick needs me!"  (Damn straight, Nat! Give 'em hell!)

And Nick can spend *several* TV-movies trying to find her, and working out a
way to bring *her* over without *him* dying.... Yes! That's it, that's what
*really* happened. So THERE! :P

But of course, since this is *all* a hallucination on Nick's part.... yhe whole
question's irrelevant....

Yup, that's my rationalization, and I'm *sticking* to it! :)

<sigh>... feel better now.  Got Scott (lovely voice, that man has!) singing
"Don Quixote" endlessly in the background.  Helps.  Helps a lot.  Back to
reading spoilers...

It is NOT over!  Tracy & Nat are vampires, Nick's mortal, but it's *not over*!

You hear me? IT'S NOT OVER, DAMMIT!

Diane E
# D Echelbarger                        gryphon@e.......  #
#   WWW HomePage:    http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/      #
# "Death cannot stop True Love"  Wesley, _Princess Bride_  #
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 11:41:56 -0400
From:         Sharon Bhandari <sbhanda@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Grief--AtA/LK spoilers


Oops, my posting should have gone to the spoiler list.  I'm sorry, I saw
the spoiler note in the subject line and assumed it was sent there anyway.

Sorry again.


Sharon B.
sbhanda@e.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 08:50:00 -0700
From:         Karen Stortz <firefox4@i.......>
Subject:      Re: vampire tears -- LK but no real spoilers

We've seen vamp tears on FK before--sometimes clear, sometimes not.  No
consistancy in it, but that's hardly surprising.

Karen
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 12:27:07 -0400
From:         Naomi P Kraus <npk1@c.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILERS: LAST KNIGHT Rationalizations! Get your red-hot
              rationalizations here! :>

I'm with those who say that Tracy's death isn't final because we never saw
her die.  Some strange things have been known to occur in FK hospitals.

N.P. Kraus
npk1@c.......
=========================================================================

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