FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 48
May 22, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 48
TOPICS:
Last Knight
Hey, you! LIST RULES
SPOILERS: AtA and LK "Cuts" and "Intent"
Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations
Spoiler: Last Knight
SPOILERS: Last Knight (also AtA) - Think a moment ....
SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22) LaCroix
Last Knight Help
SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22) LaCroix READ THIS FIRST
SPOILER: Last Knight (Natalie's Top Ten)
The LC angles (LK spoilers) -- HA!
Spoiler: LK
SPOILER: LK, Downloading Nick's Brain
SPOILER:Last Knight
Spoilers:LK,AtA; LaCroix
LK Spoiler-What about...
(LK Spoilers...sort of) Love Making Rules for Vampires/Mortals
SPOILER: LK -- What about Sydney? (2)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:25:12 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight
Thank you to everyone who said to go back and look at the timing of the
monologue.
Thank you to everyone who said the monologue might be being seen from the
POV of someone lying on the floor.
Thank you to everyone for just being here.
I watched the parts with the monologue and the ending again. Nick is not
dead. What happens to Natalie is an open question, so as far as I am
concerned, she is not dead.
We hear the monologue all through the episode. It isn't taking place in
real time. The first section, which we hear during the opening scene,
begins with "Life is a gift...." and goes on to "And is your faith really
that strong?" Then there's a pause in the dialog, then the first section
continues with, "I understand the need to move on," and continues through,
"But consider what you have in your hands before you give it up. Don't
trade a treasure for an empty box." That's the end of the opening scene.
When we hear the same dialog near the end of the episode in real time,
it begins at the same point it began in the opening scene, and only goes as
far as, "And is your faith really that strong?" After that, Nick gives
LaCroix the stake and implies that he wants LaCroix to kill him, LaCroix
says "Damn you, Nicholas!," and raises the stake. Thus, in real time,
everything else in the monologue must occur after LaCroix raises the stake.
There are several clues that Nick is not dead, but I won't go into
all of them. One of them is that in one section of the monologue, LaCroix
says, "Haven't you tired of this incessant guilt? ... And it must stop. This
and all else that has happened here tonight should make that clear to you."
This statement implies continuation. It's not the sort of thing that would
be said to somebody dying; it's the sort of thing that would be said to
somebody that is going to go on.
When I first saw the episode, I thought that LaCroix had actually done
what Nick asked him to. If that were true, it would mean that LaCroix, in
some sense at least, would be accepting this idea of walking happily off
into Heaven. Everything else he had said about life wouldn't matter.
There would only be one voice heard in this episode. And that bothered me
terribly. I like Forever Knight to ask questions, not necessarily to
answer them, and certainly not to give the sort of answer I originally
thought it was giving in this episode. But LaCroix did not kill Nick,
and so LaCroix does become the other voice in this episode. Forever Knight
did remain true to itself, after all, and I am relieved.
It does appear that the monologue is being scene from the POV of someone
on the floor. If Natalie is semiconscious, she may sense where LaCroix'
voice is coming from, and be seeing him in her mind. She also might be
catching slight real glimpses of him, if her eyes are not really completely
closed. If she is hearing what he is saying so clearly, she may not be as
close to death as Nick thinks.
It's impossible to tell what happens to Natalie. She may die, she may be
brought across, or she may revive. Since she didn't necessariy have to
die in this episode, as far as I am concerned, she is alive. And if they
make a 2-hour movie, and imply that Natalie died, then I am just going to
say that that movie does not exist, and the real Forever Knight is the
three seasons that have already been shown. And if one of TPTB says that
Natalie did die, I am just going to say that that PTB does not exist.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
The Unnamed Faction
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:13:21 -0400
From: Allison Percy <percy91@w.......>
Subject: Hey, you! LIST RULES
Hey, you! Listmember! List Mommy Jamie MR sent me a copy of the rules
before she went away and left you all in my dubious care. Below is a copy
of these rules. Read them. Yes, I know you've read them before, but read
them again. Newbies, old-timers, everyone. Mistakes are made by all
types.
I apologize to those of you who are on all three lists and will thus see
these rules posted on each list; posting of the list rules is one of the
few exceptions to the rule against cross-posting on more than one list.
I just want to highlight some problems that are all too common lately that
*everyone* should look out for before posting:
* SPOILERS going to the wrong list! Double-check those message headers!
* Discussion on the FKFIC-L list (except when it comes from an assistant
listowner like Laurie Salopek, of course!). Only fiction goes to
FKFIC-L. Questions to authors, etc., should go via private e-mail, to
FORKNI-L, or to FKSPOILR if they contain spoilers.
* Overquoting posts when replying on-list. 4 lines at a time, please.
* Me-too posts (if all you have to say is ROTFLMAO, say it via private
e-mail, please)
* Signatures more than 5 lines long
* Episode quotes in signatures that are spoilers for one of the last few
episodes. Please take those quotes out unless you're posting to
FKSPOILR.
* Fiction on FKFIC-L that isn't labelled properly with warnings about
violent content or spoiler warnings (and spoiler space if it contains
spoilers for the last few eps).
More about the rules, the history of the lists, etc. can be found on the
FK mailing list web site:
http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FK.html
And even though Jamie MR is away, Warm Fuzzies are still available for
those who need some cheering up for whatever reason:
http://members.aol.com/immajer/warm/fuzzies.html
Finally, if you're confused by a post to any of the three FK lists, or
you have a problem with something posted to the list, feel free to e-mail
me at <percy91@w.......> with questions or to note potential
rules violations. (If *everyone* on the list sent private e-mail to
someone when they violated a rule, you can imagine what that poor
person's in-box would look like....) Keep in mind that I probably saw
those rules violations, too, and have probably already sent the person a
gentle reminder.
And now the rules. READ THEM! Save them! Print them out! Make them
into a t-shirt and wear them to a Forever Knight convention! Translate
them into classical Latin and chant them to yourself at night!
:^)
Your Friendly Neighborhood List Babysitter,
Allison (percy91@w.......)
===============================================================
FOREVER KNIGHT MAILING LIST RULES (Partial) - Revised 5/13/96
General: forkni-l@p.......
FanFiction: fkfic-l@p.......
NewEpisodeSpoilers: fkspoilr@p.......
These rules are *NOT* to be considered complete, just the barest
essentials:
1: BE NICE. PLAY FAIR. NO FLAMING. We don't do that here.
2: QUOTING PREVIOUS POSTS: Copy four lines at a time ONLY. Do NOT quote
another person's entire post in your reply.
3: NO PERSONAL REPLIES TO THE LISTS: Except for emergencies. You have a
message to one particular person, send it via private e-mail. When
replying to mail, check your e-mail CAREFULLY to make sure you're not
cc'ing your post to the list.
4: NO SOLICITATION: No advertisements for any sort of profit-making
ventures.
5: SIG LENGTHS: Five lines TOPS, including all text, symbols and blank
lines. [This means you! Yes, you folks with the cute ASCII pictures in
your .sigs, too! And you folks with the really great quotes that you
just can't omit! Why not rotate a few quotes rather than leaving all of
them in every time.]
FORKNI-L Specific Rules
6: NO FICTION: Discussion of fiction is okay. Posting of actual fiction is
not.
7: NO SPOILERS: No Ashes-to-Ashes, no Last Knight, NADA ZIP ZERO. If in
doubt, post to FKSPOILR. (All episodes from Games Vampires Play onward
are still under spoiler protection.)
FKFIC-L Specific Rules
8: NO DISCUSSION: All posts that are NOT FICTION must go to FORKNI-L or
FKSPOILR.
9: ADULT STORIES MUST HAVE THE ADULT TOPIC: your subject line MUST begin
with "ADULT:" in exactly that format (omitting quotes). If you use
another format, it won't be filtered out by the listserver software.
10: STORIES CONTAINING SPOILERS MUST BE LABELED ACCORDINGLY: in the
subject line, and in the beginning of the story, with the name<s> of the
eps you're spoiling. [If there are spoilers for one of the last couple
of episodes, please also include a few lines of spoiler space in fiction
posts. Spoiler lines are not necessary on posts to FKSPOILR, though.]
11: FORMATTING FOR FICTION POSTED TO FKFIC-L: Line lengths set to margins
that are no more than 60 characters wide, posts no longer than 250 lines.
Label your stories in the format (01/16) or something similar for easier
cataloguing.
FKSPOILR Specific Rules
The following episodes are still under spoiler protection (thanks to Laura
Ruggiero <larug@s.......> for compiling this):
Games Vampires Play
Human Factor
Avenging Angel
Fallen Idol
Jane Doe
Francesca
Ashes to Ashes
Last Knight
12: BE NICE: Repeated here again for EXTRA EMPHASIS.
13: LABEL SPOILERS: as to which episode you're spoiling. [Please be sure
your subject line doesn't include spoilers itself!]
14: SPOILERS ONLY ON THE SPOILER LIST: non-spoiler discussion goes to
forkni-l, fiction to fkfic-l.
15: POSTING FREQUENCY: While there is no pre-set limit to how many times
you may post in one day, it is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED that you limit yourself
to three posts per day on the spoiler list at this time.
[Note: blank spoiler lines are *no longer necessary* for any posts on
FKSPOILR. Just be sure you've put SPOILER: <episode name> in the subject
line.]
These rules are subject to change at any time, and for any reason, as
decreed by Jaye The Listowner <jap8@c.......>, and are enforced by
either Jaye or assistant listowner Jamie M. Randell
<immajer@n.......> as required. [List Babysitter from 5/21-5/28:
Allison Percy <percy91@w.......>] Questions about the lists can
be directed to <forkni-l-request@p.......> and will be forwarded to a
listowner for disposition.
Don Fasig <phase3@g.......> is the officially-designated ListWizard; he
handles technical problems such as bounced mail that would otherwise
detract from the efficiency of the list. If you're having technical
trouble with your subscription, you can contact him directly or through the
<forkni-l-request@p.......> address.
-- Allison Percy (percy91@w....... -or- AlliePercy@a.......) --
------ List Babysitter (FORKNI-L, FKSPOILR, FKFIC-L) for a week --------
- *Free* copy of list rules! http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html --
-------------------------- Rule #1: BE NICE! --------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:19:44 -0400
From: "Kathryn A. Kraus" <kak6@p.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: AtA and LK "Cuts" and "Intent"
Sandra wonders:
>[LC] says to Nick something on the order of, "So to you, I'm
>the devil." (Why would LC make such a statement after Nick just
>saved his life in AtA? LC is not stupid; if Nick did indeed
>think LC the devil, why would he have saved LC from Divia [snip]
Actually, I saw two levels of significance in this line. First,
acknowledgment of idea that, for a long time now (up until
recent events, at least), Nick has regarded LC as his own
personal devil, hounding him to give in, etc.
No surprise there, of course.
Second (and this is a bit farther out there), he's making a
biblical/literary reference to the part he's playing in their
little drama at that very moment. Nick is proclaiming his
"faith," and LC is "tempting" him to lose it. That *is* the
Devil's role. I think he's just making the observation that
"hey, I've cast myself as Lucifer in this little dialogue,
haven't I?"
Now, where are the horns and red spandex when you need them? <g>
Amy detailed the flashbacks during Nick's (Lame Excuse
for) lovemaking:
>7. being vamped out, first season present
from Dark Knight (part II, I think).
>9. restrained on table, from "The Fix" flashback? Or LNMTA
LNMTA, the "electro-shock" therapy bit.
>10. being stabbed, second-season flashback
Blood Money
More of Amy's trivia:
>4. Nat tells Nick he's considered suicide himself, but isn't
>that selective memory? I'm told Nick said he'd never die by his
>own hand.
He did say that, at the *end* of Last Act. But he was toying
with the idea earlier.
My own personal take on this ep, even though you didn't ask....
First, the most important stuff.
1) everyone's hair looked good.
2) LC's eyebrows looked good.
Now, on to more trivial matters... ;-)
"Tragedy. [...] It is not a word that I *like*."
<Sigh.>
I *liked* the camera swings in the morgue!
I loved Nick & Nat's discussion of faith - very moving.
Nick's expression when she told him he was the most
mortal man she'd ever known. Whew!
I also like the ambiguity. It keeps everyone
abuzz! So many varied yet justifiable positions, most
of them rational!
Just for the record, my thoughts on the situation
(possibly unsubstantiated, but there nevertheless):
-LC won't kill Nick (he may stake him, but not fatally).
-Nat's still alive (those shots of LC & Nick are her POV),
and she's probably still human.
I keep getting a Pythonesque image when thinking about
this.
"She's dead."
"I'm not quite dead!"
"But you're dying."
"I think I'm getting better...."
-Nick is possibly becoming mortal - I'm about 50/50 on this.
(He took her blood + he thinks she died -> the HF cure! Eh,
it could happen. Ok, he *is* cured, unless we get a movie.)
So there you go.
Hey, instead of (or in addition to) MBDtK, can we
use N.D.N.E.D. as a sig thing?
-----------------------------------------
kak6@p.......
The lake is 51 degrees! Let's go skiing!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:03:04 -0400
From: Nancy Fralic <fralic@m.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations
On Mon, 20 May 1996, TippiNB wrote:
> Add another fraction, to which I have belonged for months: LC brought Nat
> across, didn't stake Nick, and now the three of them are touring the world
> together looking for good black suits. Welcome to the menage!
But what about Janette? Wouldn't the emotional trauma Nick was going
through (let alone getting staked permanently or not, or becoming mortal
or not) have brought her running - or flying as the case might be. I
cannot see her being indifferent to what Nick was feeling no matter how
she might feel about him bringing her across. LaCroix was stuck in the
loft with some permutation of bodies, vampires and mortals for the day.
The following evening could be another traumatic one if Janette shows up,
no matter what the scenario.
Nancy
fralic@m.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:27:09 -0700
From: Jennise Hall <jennise@t.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight
Hi all!
Back from my fantastic weekend in LA and meeting with a CBS executive who just
happened to have worked on Forever Knight when it was at CBS. (WOW!) But I'll
go into that more under another subject line.
Jinkies, I just noticed a CC to fkspoiler. I believe this account is no-mail so
I shouldn't bounce. Also, I haven't read everyone elses posts yet so forgive
any duplications or the fact that you'll probably see many replies from me as
the day goes on.
So my Last Knight post!
Well, basically, I've been quite pragmatic about the whole cancellation. That's
the way it goes. I accepted it a long time ago and was done with it. I did
staunchly avoid the spoilers. Completely. And I honestly thought throughout the
ep that they were gonna pull the dream thing. I enjoyed the ep (for the most
part) but did note some problems.
The only thing that got an emotional rise out of me. Tracy dying. I didn't
expect it and was shocked by it. I've been a Tracy fan from the begining. And I
think Tracy had the best death scene of the season (and there have been quite a
few). "You could have trusted me." Wow!
Karin and I rewatched it last night. And I realized that Tracy has done
exactlly what she was supposed to do. She's been learning from her more
experienced partner. The stupid move of sneaking off without telling
anyone....Hey, htis is a Nick move. She's always approached her work
recklessly; just like her partner. Unfortunately, the one piece of info that
she didn't have was that her partner could afford to be reckless....he lives
through bullet wounds.
I don't know if I should explain my ability to have the kind of major problems
with an ep of FK and still enjoy it. (It's also part of the reason that I give
the show a simple pass/fail scoring system.) I honestly don't think the show is
terrifically written. The number of mostly solid eps is really low (IMHO). So I
have always approached it in a 'lets just enjoy it' attitude. If I scream at
the screen or get angry - which Karin has witnessed on a *very* few occasions -
then the ep gets a fail. So basically, I enjoyed the ep yet found some serious
character problems. Particularly with Natalie.
I didn't buy her motivation for asking Nick to bring her across for one
second. Natalie has always been the type of character that would get angry with
a friend who commited suicide. She would *not* consider herself to be on that
road. "There but for the grace..." maybe but not that's gonna be me if I don't
do something.
Then with Nick... his winging and guilt after Tracy got shot fine; his
considering bringing her across...fine...she was dying and he knew it. I do
not under any circumstances by his taking the chance with Nat. No way. Uh
huh. Nada!
This next may be more with the Ger's direction than anything else but it
stopped me cold when I was watching. (Mind you this was 1 am in LA and I was
exhausted...) That being the biting scene. There are two
occasions where a vampire bites...eating and sex. (Yes, I know this is FK and
the word canon doesn't exist, but I've never seen any other occasion of
biting.)
The whole point of this scene was that Nat and Nick would have sex and see if
the act could make him mortal. WELL, WHEN THE HELL DID THEY HAVE SEX!! That was
just down right damn wrong. Nick fed off her. He wasn't even trying. I would
have been able to believe the "I couldn't stop myself" excuse if Nick had been
in the throes of passion when he drained her but he wasn't. (And come on
guys....don't you think Natalie deserved at least that much?)
One other thing I had a problem with was Nick's complete depression when Tracy
died. (my only true regret) I know he'd be upset but it was like his character
took a great leap back in time. He has changed over the course of the show.
Grown and grown closer to his humanity (I think that's part of why he was able
to be so magnamious to LaCroix in Ashes to Ashes). I think he understands more
and I think he's backed off of some of his need to make himself completely
guilty for everything that happens in the world. All right if he was trying to
make himself guilty but I think the Nick of the last 20 episodes would have
seen the truth in Reese's words; that it wasn't his fault and gotten over it.
I loved the ambiguity of the final scene. They left themselves the opening for
an (ack) resurrection. :-) Also, Judith asked me if I thougt the bullets that
hit Tracy went through Nick. After watching again, I still say no. There were a
few shots fired after Nick grabbed the shooter. His arm was free of Nick. And
it looked like Tracy didn't get hit til after Nick started playing witht he rag
doll. But hey, Tracy stepped out in the open after Nick had she situation under
control. She knew the guy was very unstable and she should have, at the very
least waited til Nick had the gun and preferably waited for him to get the
cuffs on the guy.
So in short the only thing that angered me was the fact that Natalie didn't get
her some before she "died" (the implication is that she definately _not_ too
far gone for *something* to be done and Nick's decision is to *let* her die.).
Other than that....No, I don't feel betrayed or angry. I thought it was a
fitting way to end the show. (Although, my personal preference would be for
Nick to realize a few things about how far he's come. I didn't vote for him to
become mortal. My vote is that he accept a few things about himself; become
okay with who and what he is. In my mind that doesn't mean he has to give up
his quest tho.)
So that's mine. On to reading other posts. And I'll probably post a
restrspective post (like Karin's) in a bit.
--
Jennise
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:16:41 -0500
From: Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Last Knight (also AtA) - Think a moment ....
Ray wrote:
>It's tragic that Tracy's last act as a police officer should have been a
>mistake. Nick was negotiating with a perp unarmed. Tracy steps into the
>perp's line of sight and points a weapon at him. Dawkins' reaction is
>obvious and predictable, and should have gotten them both killed.
I have to rise to Tracy's defense here. Somebody mentioned that the locker
room looked red until the shooting, at which point it looked blue. There
was a reason for that! Remember the perp did something evil to the fuse box
and killed all the lights? Well, the reddish light was supposed to convey
to us that the lights in the locker room were *out*. Presumably, the place
was cast in heavy shadow (if not outright darkness). Tracy, knowing the lay
of the place, is creeping up on the perp, who is stumbling along in the
dark. Nick, of course, has no trouble seeing in the dark and finds the perp
without difficulty. He's working on hypnotizing the perp and is about to
succeed. Tracy, knowing the perp is armed, steps into the shadow behind
Nick with weapon raised to shoot if the perp suddenly points the gun at
Nick. The perp can't see her, and she's covering her partner, like she's
supposed to. Now, all of a sudden, the lights come back on, startling
everybody. The room is cast in blue, bright light. The perp can now see
Tracy clearly, panics, and fires before she can react. And yes, she looks
surprised because the bullet went straight through Nick, then through her
abdomen and liver, off the wall behind her, and into her skull. You'd look
surprised, too, if you suddenly began hemorrhaging into your brain stem.
Why the heck do you think she doesn't shoot back?
I really felt for Tracy in this ep. Here she is, absolutely miserable over
the death of Vachon and unable to tell anyone, anywhere why (it's clear to
me that LC hadn't gotten to her yet). She's so unhappy she's feeling sick
to her stomach. Yet, when the emergency arises, she takes out her gun with
quiet professionalism and goes to work with the most focused look I've ever
seen on her face. Way to go, Lisa!
The fault for her death isn't hers. It isn't Nick's. It's Reece's, for
allowing an hysterical convict to be in the precint unfettered and for
allowing the lights to be cut back on without knowing exactly what was
taking place in the locker room. When you're a cop, you use the environment
to advantage. Changing that environment quickly and without warning puts
your people in mortal danger.
Oh, well, soapbox off. Back to work. And yes, I'm still mad about this
whole LK shenanigans (what? you can tell?) <g>.
Stephanie B., Vaquera now and always
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:28:31 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22) LaCroix
I was in the middle of writing a private message to someone when I
realized that what I was writing might be of interest to the list,
to wit:
What is strange to me is that people accepted all the "insight" into
LC's character (with the drastic change in how he's viewed) in AtA,
but yet no one seems to think that LC learned nothing about himself
that would allow him to understand Nick's pain enough to let him go
by killing him. No one seems to consider any possibility that what
happened with Divia in AtA had its own emotional effect on LC so that
*his* judgment might have been "off" for emotional reasons. LC was
packing and getting ready to leave Toronto. Was it because he didn't
want to be reminded of Divia's death? In short, was he running away
from his own pain?
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:27:43 -0500
From: Lisa Acton <lacton@c.......>
Subject: Last Knight Help
I'm looking for someone who recorded Last Knight. My cable went out that
day so I never got to see it. Does anyone have any of the final 4
eposides on tape or know where I can get them.
Thanks,
-Lisa
Lacton@m.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:35:24 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22) LaCroix READ THIS FIRST
I realized after I had posted my post, "SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22)
LaCroix" that I had referenced Ashes to Ashes in it without mentioning
there were spoilers for AtA in the subject line. Sorry about that.
If you haven't seen AtA and don't want to read spoilers about it,
don't read the post with the above named title.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:22:39 -0500
From: John & Donna Spert <jjs@i.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight (Natalie's Top Ten)
By request, here's Nat's chance at a Last Knight Top Ten:
John
Ten Things Natalie might think after Nick was done:
10) Did anyone get the license number of that truck?
9) Eww, gross. His breath smells like a dead cow.
8) Maybe that chemical cure wasn't so bad after all.
7) Damn it, Nick. I'm a doctor, not a fast food joint.
6) I never suspected Nick suffered from premature
exsanguination.
5) So Nick, was it good for you?
4) Roger Jameson... Nick Knight... Boyfriends to die for.
3) No more boyfriends. I'm gonna buy me a dog.
2) Hand me that stake, LaCroix. I've got dibs.
And the number one thing Nat might think after Nick was done:
1) Why am I so *hungry* all of a sudden?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:29:39 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: The LC angles (LK spoilers) -- HA!
Laura Petix wrote:
>He wouldn't. The theory only makes sense if you believe that
>LaCroix did *not* go through with staking Nick, and that he is talking
>him down. The dialogue makes perfect sense that way. Not only that,
>but, in my opinion, anything else would be out of character for LaCroix.
I agree wholeheartedly with you there. I mean, there's inconsistency then
there's full out 180 degree
one-day-I'm-wicked-the-next-day-I'm-the-easter-bunny kind of stuff. ;)
Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*
"TV shows, like vampires, have a way of coming back from the dead."
"I'm not in denial. I'm in a state of creative readjustment!"
http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:45:52 -0400
From: Amy Volpert <avolpert@a.......>
Subject: Spoiler: LK
I favor the scenario that LaCroix temporarily disabled Nick and brought
Natalie across. LaCroix obviously doesn't approve of suicide and his
misguided, destructive love for Nick won't let him part with his son.
Bringing Nat across would give Nick an irrefutable reason to continue
living, even as a vampire. LaCroix would rather indulge Nick's love for
Nat and his search for redemption than lose him forever. It would be the
ultimate controlling, dominating, grasping act, forcing Nick to live the
life he can no longer bear.
Amy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:57:43 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, Downloading Nick's Brain
>....the loop is imperfect. ....note a few of the many differences:
>"a ripe peach" vs "the freshest peach"; "unless, of course, you have
>faith" vs "or do you have faith"; "where you stand" vs "where you are"
>"the rising sun" vs "the morning sun"; <one more, I'm out of room>
I don't think the slight differences matter. One was what Natalie heard
while semiconscious; one was what Nick heard. In her state, Natalie could
have heard things slightly different from the way they really were.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
The Unnamed Faction
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:06:44 -0500
From: Robbi Egersdorf <egersdor@m.......>
Subject: SPOILER:Last Knight
Since we are talking about symbolism and I have not seen this mentioned,yet.
In the morgue scene, Nick and Nat are saying some pretty intimate, personal
things to each other. It hits me as strange that they stood with death
between them the whole time. Neither crossed over to the other's side, nor
could they. I have never witnessed a scene in all of Forever Knight where
the characters didn't change their location in relation to the others and
change frequently.
I've seen it 7 times now and counting. Still can't get through it without
breaking up at the end.
Robbi
Knightie
Long Live the Knight
egersdor@m.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:00:15 -0400
From: Diane Shea <KerrRaven@a.......>
Subject: Spoilers:LK,AtA; LaCroix
Spoilers for AtA and LK...
Sorry everyone if there's a lot more that has been said on this previously.
My modem has finally allowed me to sign on again so all that has come before
this, I haven't read yet...anyway,
Sandra wrote;
>>...no one seems to think that LC learned nothing about himself
that would allow him to understand Nick's pain enough to let him go by
killing him.<<
I'm one of those that happens to think this actually. Now, is the question
that has been disputed one of "How could LaCroix possibly kill Nick now,
after all this time?!" I believe it is quite possible that he could. Simply
because of this new dimension that has been revealed in his character. It
would be the last thing he'd want to do, but he has faced his own pain
recently, he has seen Nick offer him support during this pain, and he (being
the recently made decent guy that he is) would not deny Nick's heartfelt
request. Especially not after "You're my closest friend."
>>LC was packing and getting ready to leave Toronto. Was it because he
didn't want to be reminded of Divia's death? In short, was he running away
from his own pain?<<
My answer; Yes. If we are to understand that LK and AtA happened shortly
after one another, then that is a very reasonable explanation. Divia
returning seeking revenge and LaCroix finally explaining to Nick an important
part of his life, and the pain he has lived with for centuries, is probably
one of the most traumatic things this ancient vampire has had to go through
in a long time. He wouldn't want to think about it any more than he has to.
When vampires are disturbed by something, they leave that something (or try
to at least:)
--Cousin Diane
the positive cousin
Eternal Seducer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:52:58 -0700
From: Bonnie F Rutledge <br1035@i.......>
Subject: LK Spoiler-What about...
If you haven't seen Last Knight yet, and don't want it spoiled-read no
further....
It occurred to me that *if* Nat is *really* deceased, what will become
of Sidney? Not only has he had to deal with bare cupboards, Mummy being
away at nights and smelling of formaldyhyde and alcohol, but now he's
been abandoned forever! Let us hope Sidney isn't consigned to the
animal shelter ( but at least he'd be fed regularly )!
************************************************************************
Bonnie Rutledge br1035@i.......
Quaffing LaCroix bottled water..."LaCroix, the essence of pure" Yes!
The bottle REALLY says that <cackle>!
************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:56:44 -0400
From: "Lisa P." <LadysAVamp@a.......>
Subject: (LK Spoilers...sort of) Love Making Rules for Vampires/Mortals
On the OMNI chat last night I started a RULES FOR MAKING LOVE TO
VAMPIRES/MORTALS topic. Well, let's just say some of the suggestions were
very interesting. ;)
There are some vague references to LK, so to be safe, I'm putting it on the
FKSPOILR list.
It would seem some of my brain cells, the ones that deal with memory, fled
during the night. I can only remember a few of them. Here are some of the
ones I do remember, plus a few a just thought up. Some of the ones I
remember belong to other people, but unfortunately I don't remember who said
what, and I don't want to misquote anyone so you won't find them here.
Though I will be misquoting myself seeing that I can't remember verbatim
what I said!! Ain't growing old a b**ch!
RULES FOR MAKING LOVE TO A VAMPIRE
------------------------------------------------------------------
#1. Make sure it isn't Nick!
#2. If Rule #1 is ignored, make sure Lacroix is on hand to clean up the mess
#3. If Rule #2 is followed, pray as fast and as hard as you can
#3. DON'T PANIC! Increase in heartbeats will only make you look tastier
#4. If you change your mind, keep bible handy...works better than a cold
shower
#5. THERE ARE NO RULES!
RULES FOR MAKING LOVE TO A MORTAL
----------------------------------------------------------------
#1. There are more pleasant things to s**k on than the neck := (figures
that would be the first one I can think of from last night ;) )
#2. Learn the difference between "foreplay" and "forearm" (Sheesh!)
#3. Don't drink and fly (MADD - Mortals Against Drunken Dead)
#4. Don't release thoughts of previous loves with your mouth full
#5. THERE ARE NO RULES!
Lisa P.
(Please brain cells, come home to mama soon. I need you!)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:29:33 -0700
From: Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject: SPOILER: LK -- What about Sydney?
On Wed, 22 May 1996, Bonnie F Rutledge wrote:
> It occurred to me that *if* Nat is *really* deceased, what will become
> of Sidney?
If Nat really is gone, there will be people (and cats) to mourn her, which
someone should have reminded her of when she was talking about having an
empty life. (Yes, Nick, hero-o-mine, I'm talking about you.) We haven't
seen Grace in a loooong time, but does that mean she's gone? What about
Nat's sister-in-law Sara and niece Amy? What about Myra and Jenny, for
that matter? Nat's life isn't *all* in fanfic, is it?
I vote that Sydney goes to Grace.
And I finally think I've figured out why -- artistically -- we never got
to see Schanke in any flashbacks in LK. Almost any moment with Skank
would have completely undermined the premise of this blasted episode. IMHO.
(I'm still having subscription trouble -- my apologies if this misposts.)
**** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ****
"I could not risk condemning to the void one who so
surely deserves a Heaven." -- LaCroix, by TippiNB
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:57:58 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK -- What about Sydney?
Amy wrote:
>And I finally think I've figured out why -- artistically -- we never got
>to see Schanke in any flashbacks in LK. Almost any moment with Skank
>would have completely undermined the premise of this blasted episode. IMHO.
Artistically, that sounds like a good reason to me. I mean, Nick isn't
*that* big of a brick to not recall one of his best friends, is he? Nah.
Even I -- I who think you could put windows in the boy and call him a brick
house -- don't think he's that bad.
I wonder if there were legal or technical reasons? Contractual glitches?
Like why didn't they show any Janette flashbacks frm 1st and 2nd seasons?
Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Founding Member of the Unnamed Faction*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*
"TV shows, like vampires, have a way of coming back from the dead."
"I'm not in denial. I'm in a state of creative readjustment!"
http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
=========================================================================
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
