FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9606 Part 8
June 7-June 8, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9606" Part 8
TOPICS:
SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
The end of FKSPOILR (long) & thank you!
The end of FKSPOILR (2)
Thank You
So Long and Thanks for All the Talk :)
Spoilers? And everything
The Final Weekend
Thanks
Virtual Season LK & AtA spoilers
Lyrics
FKSPOILR Digest - 5 Jun 1996 to 6 Jun 1996
LK Blooper Script
The end of FKSPOILR (long)
Spoilers/all/What I learned from the Last Four Eps
SPOILER: Last Knight (3)
Virtual Season - SPOILERS: BB, HF, Fever, AtA, LK (2)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:08:02 -0700
From: Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, John Folden wrote:
> I do believe you are correct. I believe the vampire in her died the night
> Robert died but the killer in her lingered on until she shot the guy...
She said "the vampire," and then in the next breath corrected herself
with, "the killer," applying both to the shooting incident. However, the
pregnancy line of thought was deliberately reaching for a physiological
explanation, and is based on the premise that Janette's subjective
relation of the matter is not scientifically reliable. We have no proof
she was pregnant; we have no proof she was not.
However, I will assert here what I always used to groan about with ST:
TNG. A transformation of that sort really cannot be instantaneous. It
takes time for new cells to be produced according to the new genetic
directives. It takes time for old cells to slough away. And surface
appearance would be the final thing to alter, after the internal processes
are in order. Thus, the transformation from vampire to mortal *should* be
gradual. Heck -- fanfic usually gives a new vampire at least one good,
long sleep before claiming that the body has totally adjusted; we
shouldn't do less going the other way.
*** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ***
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
"CERK: all audio self-flagellation, all the time"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:24:30 -0400
From: "Lisa P." <LadysAVamp@a.......>
Subject: Re: The end of FKSPOILR (long) & thank you!
Angie said:
>That is why he was "suck" a brick. If he dared showed his emotion, it would
>ruin everthing.
Uhh, I'm sure that was just a Freudian slip, right?!? <wicked grin> :)=
Sorry, I couldn't resist!!!!
Lisa P.
***************************************************************************
Only one thing is truly permanent...Forever Knight
Cousinly Knightie w/NatPacker tendencies <I do so hate to limit myself>
LadysAVamp@a....... -- "Hey, who you calling a lady!?!"
oboyyme@t....... -- <Lacroix's unheard thoughts at end of LK>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:53:18 -0400
From: "J.A. Stafford" <KnightGal@a.......>
Subject: Re: The end of FKSPOILR
Dear NB:
You will be sorely missed by all. Virtual flowers and chocolates to you,
along with many happy days on the green! (And, of course, a day or two in a
recording studio to put Peter Rabbit on audiocassette for all posterity!!!)
Julie
~Cousin~Wielder of the Rake~Sometime Valentine~Knightie~
N&NPacker~Vaquera~Toreador~Methos admirer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:37:26 -0400
From: Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......>
Subject: Thank You
Thank you Mr. Bennett. I wish you happiness and peace.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:37:33 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: So Long and Thanks for All the Talk :)
I just want to say a big thank you to *everyone* who has ever posted
to FKSPOILR. Even if I didn't agree with everyone's opinions, the
posts here have made for interesting reading and interesting debating
too. Thanks, Jaye, for making this list available, and thanks to all
past and present assistant listowners (and Jaye too, of course) for
keeping things running pretty smoothly. And thanks to psu for making
the space available for our in-depth analyses.
To Cousins: We may never see eye to eye about LC, but you folks have
some good debaters in your ranks (Laurie, Celeste, [formerly] Jamie
come to mind; and Merc Dianne DeSha).
To Natpackers: I got disenchanted with how Nat was portrayed in most
of second and third season. This lead to some intense debating and
I'd like to apologize for offending anyone with my comments. I also
have to admit to being at times a bit *zealous* in debating about Nat
and sometimes getting more interested in scoring "points". This
mostly applied to my perception of Nat in Fever and I have to say that
on a later rewatching of Fever, I did not have the same perception
of her that I had on the first viewing of Fever. Perhaps that is due
to Valerie Meachum's considered responses to my comments. Anyway, I've
also got to apologize for making some ill-considered comments about
Janette in amongst that Fever debating. My apologies for making comments
about Janette that anyone found offensive.
Anyway, you folks are an interesting and intelligent bunch of people.
All of you who've posted have made this list interesting to read.
My thanks to you all. I hope someday we have some new FK to comment
on.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:06:08 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@o.......>
Subject: Spoilers? And everything
Well, I have to say I have enjoyed being on this list. Okay, most of the
time it was very frustrating because I always had to wait many weeks before
seeing the episodes people were talking about, but most of the time that
allowed me to get perspectives I might not otherwise have had. Without this
list I would have thought Janette died at the end of HF, and that's just one
example.
I missed the comments about LK because I didn't want to get depressed, but
reading NB's comments certainly provides food for thought, especially for a
Dark Knightie, and especially since I think I agree with them. :) I still
think Nick would have been happier accepting himself as a vampire, of course,
but since he didn't one must take what one can get. I'll have to go and watch
my LK tape for the third time now...
- Marina.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - LaCroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=====Marina Bailey=======tmar@f.......=====|| \\
\\====Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie====Dark Knightie====//
... Kirk never wore green tights and frolicked about in Sherwood Forest.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:00:09 +0000
From: Karen Tobin <ktobin@t.......>
Subject: The Final Weekend
Hi, everyone,
In this last weekend of FKSPOILR, I'd like to send thanks to the
people who've worked very hard to make the lists available to all of
us: Our Esteemed Listowner, Red, Our Wonderful Assistant
Listowners, (past and present): Laurie, Lisa and Jamie, Our
Hardworking Subscription God, Don, and Our Courageous List Baby-sitter,
Allie. You're all amazing!
I've really enjoyed reading and participating in this list. You're an
extremely insightful, stimulating group!
See you all on FORKNI-L!
Karen, Knightie/Heartbreaker (ktobin@t.......,
http://www.tiac.net/users/ktobin/fk.html)
Reference Librarian, Save Forever Knight Campaign/Almighty Address Goddess
Forever Knight has been cancelled. To help, email me
and/or visit: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 10:30:27 -0700
From: Fundenberger <fundy@t.......>
Subject: Thanks
Dear everyone,
Thank you all sooooo much for being like a second family. I'm really
going to miss having you to talk to. Thanks for all of the insight into the
episodes. Thanks to the listowners and caretakers.
I just graduated from high school last night, so I finally had time
to read all the posts, and now there going away. Maybe I'll subscribe to
forkni-l. Once again, thank you everyone! Have a good life.
Julie Fundenberger
fundy@t.......
Ocean Shores, Washington
Fundenberger --- A Subscriber at Techline
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:25:13 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: Re: Virtual Season LK & AtA spoilers
At 12:32 AM 6/8/96 -0400, Dalton Spence wrote:
> <snip>A virtual "writers bible" to enhance continuity, and reduce YAFKI's.
> Unlike JP, I don't believe this would reduce creativity; in fact,
> working around the guidelines should actually stimulate it.
I'll reply on the spoiler list while it's still here.
I agree completely. Forgive me if I've mentioning something already
hashed out, because I was nomail for a couple of weeks, but I think
we need to agree on the status/state of the characters before we
begin. A bit tricky at best, I'll admit. However this is what I
propose. AtA and LK happened. LC didn't stake Nick, he hit him on
the head or whatever to incapacitate him temporarily. LC flew Nat
to the hospital where she recovered and survived. <No, I'm not saying
that because I'm a N&N Packer, I think I'm a dark one, if there's
such a thing, 'cause I'd rather LK ended with them both vamps.> Nick
isn't moving and LC realizes that Nick's in such a mess that he (LC)
can't leave town much as he wants/needs to go. Nick won't leave and LC
can't leave him there alone. I'll admit this is a bit altruistic for LC
but he does owe Nick big time after AtA. I think a few episodes into the
season Vachon's grave is discovered empty. Makes a nice sub-plot.
As to Urse and Tracy I'm open to suggestions/negotiations.
This leaves the main characters with the same status before and in Toronto
but with lots of new issues to deal with. It leaves pleany of opportunity
for both cop stories and character development.
If this kind of resolution for LK is NOT accepted and incorporated into a
writer's bible, well, without it I have serious doubts that the fourth season
could even be done.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:48:30 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Lyrics
The following is an excerpt from a post that I found over on
rec.arts.sf.tv. I thought people might find the lyrics interesting.
I think they can be applied to FK. And btw, if you've never watched
B5, do check it out. Imo, it's the best SF show out there right now.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: yamanish@i....... (David Yamanishi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5
Subject: JMS Appearance on "Hour 25" 5/31/96 (*CORRECTED LYRICS*)
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 07:10:31 GMT
15. JMS played the songs he wrote for the episode "Walkabout"
(sketch versions, not the finished bits from the episode).
"Walkabout" concerns Franklin falling for a singer in
Downbelow. She will be played by Erica Gimbel (sp?) from
"Fame". The songs played were preliminary versions used
for approval. Lyrics and music by JMS (with help from
Chris Franke). The music is kind of country-rock. Gaps
indicate missed lines, sorry (my tape of the show is
bad, so I can't fill in the blanks):
(1) Do you remember when you told me you loved me?
Do you remember when you told me you cared?
Now I'm standing on the edge of forever
And for the first time I confess I'm scared.
It's our last night and our last kiss, so
turn out the lights and hold me.
And lie to me until I believe
that promises mean what they say and tears aren't
meant to deceive.
I remember the first time you touched me.
I remember the first time I cried.
I remember every minute, every hour.
And I remember the first time you lied.
So throw out the pictures, clean out the room,
turn out the lights, and leave me too.
It's our last night and our last kiss,
so turn out the lights and hold me,
and lie to me until I believe
that promises mean what they say and tears aren't
meant to deceive.
I know, I hear you, I understand completely,
it's over, I love you, good-bye...
(2) I think about the things we lost,
and I think about the things we had.
It's funny for as I long as I had you
then I guess it wasn't so bad.
Now we're running out of time and
dancing on the wire.
The engine's showing empty, and I think
I'm smelling fire.
I gave you love, you gave me fire.
I took you in, you took me higher.
If I wasn't what you wanted, then
tell me what it was.
Lost yourself in yesterday, forget about
tomorrow.
Now there's not another minute left
to beg, or steal, or borrow.
All of me I gave to you,
All that I believe.
I'm standing here without a clue.
Can't you tell me what it is you need?
I gave you love, you gave me fire.
I took you in, you took me higher.
If I wasn't what you wanted, then
tell me what it was.
David
yamanish@i.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:28:14 -0700
From: "Toni C. Holm" <tch@w.......>
Subject: Re: FKSPOILR Digest - 5 Jun 1996 to 6 Jun 1996
Goodbye to FKPOILR-L! You've been a great home to many of us. May you be
back again soon as we get new episodes to discuss when Forever Knight is
eventually returns. As Jamie has be known to say, "Faith!"
-Toni <tch@w.......>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 18:49:28 -0400
From: Lisa Prince <Moonlight@g.......>
Subject: LK Blooper Script
Hey, Hey All :)
Since this is the final weekend and we are allowed to post anything
over here, I figured I would post this information over here in
case any of you aren't on FORKNI-L and are interested.
There is a Blooper Script of Last Knight that Mr. Bennett kindly
auctioned off at SyndiCon East and then specially signed for the
members of FORKNI-L. It is extremely amusing and is available to
everyone.
All you need to do in order to get a copy of the script is send in
a donation, minimum of $5.00, for one of the following charities:
Pediatric AIDS Foundation;
Casey House; or
Children's Hospital Foundation.
All charity donation checks should be made out to the charity that
you want to donate to. Also, if you send in more than $5.00,
please indicate whether you want a corresponding number of scripts
(i.e.: $10.00 = 2 scripts; $15.00 = 3 scripts, etc.).
Along with your donation, please include $1.01 in stamps for return
postage. If you positively can not send stamps, a check is
acceptable and should be made out to my attention -- Lisa Prince.
If you'd like a blooper script, please send your donation and
postage to:
Lisa Prince
000 Xxxxxxxxxxx Xxxxxx, Xxxxx 000
Xxxxxxx, XX 00000-0000
QUICK THANK YOU TO ALL THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE WHO HAVE
GOTTEN INVOLVED IN THESE CHARITY DRIVES {{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}
Lisa
The FK Charity Goddess
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:54:18 -0700
From: Denise Underwood <ithildin@m.......>
Subject: Re: The end of FKSPOILR (long)
Thank you Mr. Bennett for sharing your thoughts on LK with us, it was greatly
appreciated. I look forward to your future projects, and I especially am
looking forward to "Keeper of the King" when it comes out in January. After
hearing you read those two chapters at SyndiCon West, I can't wait to read the
whole thing!
Best Wishes,
Denise ~The Cousinly Ravenette~ ~TEDT~ ~Killer Bunny of the Clan McGregor~
"That Rabbit has a viscous streak a mile wide!It's a killer!" Tim,Enchanter
ithildin@m....... - K-Niggit and Blackberry Gatherer
** Ask me about Forever Knight chat every evening on IRC EFNet!! **
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:54:15 -0400
From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers/all/What I learned from the Last Four Eps
LaCroix is still hurting in my little corner, guys.
Nick and Nat were too distraught to want to live, that aint cool.
Reinventing himself is all fine and dandy, but the vision I have of
LaCroix is him sitting in his dark apartment in his new leather chair,
sipping a drink, holding an open copy of Romeo and Juliet, page
marked by the Divia cameo, staring off past Nicks painting of the
sunrise on his wall into the abyss of the night sky, consumed by his
pain, grief and loneliness.
On that uplifting note, <wcg> I thought this would be ... fun;
What I learned from the last Four eps of FK
*There is no Justice, Joe.
*Forever Aint so long.
*Reincarnation can be a drag.
*Some people read far too much Shakespeare.
*Over 900 people can reside on the Isle of Denial
without sinking it.
*Locking your kid in their room for 2000 years doesn't teach
them anything.
*Nattering is when somebody is talking and talking, but not
making much sense.
*Love *is* a many splintered thing. (Credit to Sisters of Mercy)
*Suicide is the ultimate defeat.
*Nick is not the only angst ridden brick in his Vampire family.
*The "Shillelagh of Death" hath no mercy.
*Take the stairs.
*Vampires can glide.
*Never ever wear powder blue. You can be shot for it in some
universes.
*Keep the beer fridge locked.
*The way to a vampires heart is through his stomach.
*Life is like the freshest peach, and Man O' Man do peaches
spoil fast, best to make a cobbler.
Brutal Cousin Karies
SoulDebris@a.......
Don't forget to watch "The Shillelagh of Death VS The Ger-Cam"
The stunning prequel to "LaCroix's Rampage" A ClewlesSA Pictures
Original. In 3-D Divia-Vision.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 18:18:18 -0500
From: Robbi Egersdorf <egersdor@m.......>
Subject: The end of FKSPOILR
Hi all.
I just had to post one more time before all of this is gone. I have been
saving all the posts with LK spoilers in order to digest them as I could.
This episode sure provoked a lot of thought, pain and enjoyment.
I really enjoyed Mr. B's take on LK. I had never thought of it in that way.
It makes perfect sense. It's just so hard to accept it because something
that we have loved is "dying" (no, I haven't given up). This something
called Forever Knight has become real through all the hard work and parts of
themselves that the writers, composers, cast, and crew bestowed on it and
through the love that has grow in the hearts of the fans. No mere TV show,
no episode has ever effected me in such a way, nor will it ever again.
Thanks to all who made the spoiler discussings possible, put such hard work
into maintaining this list and to everyone who made it evident to me that
there are a lot of people out there who care a lot. I have selfishly and
needfully partaken of that caring on several occasions, myself and have been
better for it.
To Mr. Bennett: I have the utmost respect for your work. You brought a
dimension to such an "evil" character, even made him "lovable". IMHO, no
one else could have done it like you did and I am glad you were there.
Bye all
Robbi
Knightie With Dark Tendencies
Long Live the Knight
egersdor@m.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 18:41:59 -0700
From: "Sharon A. Himmanen" <romana@i.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight
Since FKSPOILR will soon be no more, I thought I'd come out and play a
bit, and take the opportunity to make a few comments on "Last Knight"
which I finally watched.
Nigel wrote:
>It really has been a treat lurking here and listening
>to what you all think of the episodes as they have come
>and gone. (snip) It has been a true pleasure to "know"
>you all in this way, and I thank you for the
>opportunity.
And thank you for coming along on the ride and being here along with
us. I'm glad you've taken the time to answer a few questions, make a
few comments, and just generally make your presence known. It's been a
pleasure reading your comments.
However, having said that, I did want to respond to your comments on
and opinion of "Last Knight." I couldn't possibly disagree with you
more though I do agree that the season is marked by growing
disillusionment on the part of many of the characters.
>Nat could see no light at the end of the tunnel and, in
>effect, commits suicide.(Yes, I know Nick drained her,
>but she asked him to),
I'm sorry, but I think this is a gross mininterpretation of Natalie's
motivations in "Last Knight." I read an early draft of the script
where it is clear that Natalie is attempting to commit suicide (which
was wrong and horribly out of character and I was glad that implication
was more or less removed in subsequent rewrites). In the episode we
saw, Natalie was *not* committing suicide. If she had wanted to kill
herself, I have no doubt she would have gone off and done so on her own
and there would have been no mistaking the fact that she took her own
life.
IMO, there is a world of difference between saying "Nick, drain me,"
(which is what some people claim she did) and saying "Nick, make love
to me. Take just a little at a time," (which is what she *really*
said). To suggest that Natalie was deliberately attempting to kill
herself is ludicrous. I know this is not what Nigel intended to imply,
but when I first read his comments about Natalie asking Nick to kill
her it reminded me of all those awful comments some people make
regarding a rape victim: well, she brought it on herself; she might
have said no, but she was wearing this tight little dress and so it's
all her fault. It was this unintentional "blame the victim" mentality
that made me shudder over Nigel's post. This is perhaps extreme, and
as I said, I do not think this is what he intended to imply, but it was
my initial reaction.
Natalie saw this chance with Nick as an opportunity to become something
more, as something life affirming, not as an opportunity to die. She
believed he would be able to stop though she did recognize that there
was a possibly of accidental death. Trying to deliberately kill
yourself and attempting something risky knowing you might get hurt are
two entirely different things.
What is sad, to me, is that Natalie is portrayed as a fool in the last
episode, unwisely placing her trust and faith in the one person she
should *never* have had faith and trust in. And she pays the ultimate
price for her foolishness. Sad message, really, from a series that I
always thought touted faith and trust and the process of working toward
a goal as positive things worth doing. In the end that all comes to
less than nothing for the two characters who embody those very
qualities.
>And Nick....Nick wins. You see, the way it felt for me
>at the end was that Nick had beaten Lacroix, and had
>finally regained his humanity.
I didn't see it so much as beating LaCroix as much as simply just
giving in, which in my book makes Nick the biggest loser in "Last
Knight." He doesn't regain his humanity as much as he regains some
equanimity with LaCroix which is, in many ways, just the opposite of
regaining humanity. Nick fails to find the faith in himself that
Natalie claims to see so clearly. He kills yet another woman out of
uncontrollable lust and hunger. Then he proceeds to give up in the
face of these failures and attempt to commit suicide. To add insult to
injury, Nick doesn't even have the courage to take his own life;
instead he foists that responsibility onto someone else.
>So, for me, LK is a victorious ending and a deeply
>positive one.
Having seen several drafts of the script for "Last Knight" and knowing
the substantial changes that occurred over a very short period of time,
Nigel's view of the ending is certainly understandeable, particularly
for someone also involved in the construction of the episode which is a
radically different experience from simply watching it. As a fan who
is left with "Last Knight" as the very last word on the series (at
least for the time being), however, I did not find the ending
victorious or deeply positive in any way. For me, it was a tragic and
unnecessarily negative and depressing end to one man's very positive
quest to understand and perhaps better himself with the help of a lot
of people who believed in him.
And by the way, I do not have the script for "Last Knight." <g>
Sharon
--
Sharon A. Himmanen * NatPacker * romana@i....... * romana@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:25:20 -0400
From: Judith Boguslawski <JudiBogus@a.......>
Subject: Virtual Season - SPOILERS: BB, HF, Fever, AtA, LK
Puttin' on my asbestos underwear, 'cause I know I'm gonna get flamed by the
Vaqueros/as, Perkulators, RatPackers and Urchins ... ;-}
First off, let me say that I think the Virtual Season is a perfectly
marvelous idea! And, from what I've read on FKFIC, I believe our FK fan
writers are creative, varied, and talented enough to pull it off and make
this project *extremely* interesting! (Admittedly, I'm a FK fiction addict,
so any project that generates even *more* FK fiction is just bully with me!
And FK fandom has the most prolific group of writers I've ever seen! I am
constantly amazed at the quantity and *quality* of the stories on FKFIC!)
So far, there's been a lot of talk on FKSPOILR about the Virtual Season, and
much discussion concerning who should live and who should stay dead when this
"fourth season" is mapped out.
Though I admit I love reading all the various, alternate possibilities in the
FKFIC pages (where *everybody* lives -- Hooray!!! :-D), Virtual Season, I
feel, should adhere more closely to FK series "canon." (Else, what's the
point of doing it as an entity separate from regular fan fic?) So, for the
sake of VS4, I would prefer that the characters killed during the course of
the series *stay* dead ... no cheap "outs" like those outlandish Hammer
horror movie Dracula resurrections, or the even cheaper Bobby Ewing/Dallas
"it was all a dream" plot device.
As I see it, what we have here (in terms of FK aired canon) is:
DEFINITELY DEAD: Screed, Vachon, Urs, Tracy
MOST LIKELY DEAD: Schanke, Cohen
MOST LIKELY ALIVE: Nat, Nick, Janette
DEFINITELY ALIVE: LaCroix, Reese, Stonetree
The "definitely dead" characters received on-air death scenes -- we actually
*saw* Screed, Vachon, Urs, and Tracy die -- no ambiguity, and, in my mind at
least, no doubts. Screed died and was buried; Vachon was staked and died in
Tracy's arms; Urs was torn to pieces by Divia (that was the impression I got
from the final image of Urs lying dead in Nick's elevator ... it distinctly
looked to me -- as graphically as they're permitted to show on American
non-cable tv, of course -- like PIECES of Urs rather than an intact body, and
I can't see even a vampire coming back from total dismemberment); and Tracy
was declared dead in the hospital -- we saw them pull the sheet over her head
and wheel her off.
The fate of others were left (intentionally?) open to interpretation, but we
didn't really *see* any of them die -- thus, "most likely alive." Nat was
left lying on the floor of Nick's loft, not necessarily dead (LaCroix himself
declared her on the *brink* of death, and, from past experience, he surely
ought to know!); Nick was left kneeling on the floor before LaCroix, while
LaCroix raises the stake ... but we never actually *see* him kill Nick. And
Janette ... well, that's been discussed in detail, here on FKSPOILR, before
...
If one wants to stretch credibility, we didn't actually *see* Schanke and
Cohen die, either, but there is no reason to believe they were *not* on that
doomed plane, as their remains were identified from forensic evidence after
the crash.
Now, I don't want to trounce on the feelings of those who love the third
season characters, but, to inject a note of reality (gasp! :-o) into this
discussion, I believe that Vachon, Urs, Screed, and Tracy *are* dead because
Mr. Parriott *intends* them to be dead. To quote some insight on JP from the
Fred Mollin interview that was recently posted (the context is Fred
explaining why he thought he would not get the job of scoring "Forever
Knight" because Paragon was "pushing" FM at JP):
>>FM: <snip> And I think Jim didn't like being told who he should hire. I
knew that for real because at one point I think Jim told the guys at Paragon,
"Look, don't tell me who I should hire; it's got to be my choice." <snip>
... it seemed to me this guy wants to make his own mind up ...<<
I think it was been no coincidence that, as soon as USA Network withdrew
their backing and JP regained total creative control of FK, the first thing
(or, shall we say, the *last* thing ;-)) he did was to eliminate the
characters introduced during the third season -- characters created,
reportedly, at the suggestion of TPTB at USA Network. So now, at the end, we
are left with the "core characters" that *are* JP's original creations:
Nick, Nat, LaCroix, and ... somewhere out there ... Janette. My pet theory
is that this may have been a conscious effort on JP's part to return the show
to its origins (and to his original "vision"), so that if it *does* continue
into a fourth season or a series of telefilms, ONLY his original characters
(and any new ones *he* conceives) will be involved. At least, that's how *I*
interpreted it ...
In any case, I still have to vote for letting the "dead" rest in peace ...
I'd like to see VS4 be a *logical* continuation of the series -- a forum for
breaking "new" ground and taking FK into the future, with a firm grounding in
(but not necessarily a slavish devotion to) FK historical "canon." It should
be a creative and, above all, *enjoyable* project for FK fans, something that
will help maintain and even fuel enthusiasm for the series in the absence of
new episodes, but I would like to see such a unique and exciting project
avoid becoming nothing but a string of "resurrection of the week" stories.
It will be interesting to see what fresh perspectives, new storylines, (and
new characters?) our fan writers can come up with!
Slinking back to the Land of Lurkdom, and awaiting the flames ...
Judi B.
<JudiBogus@a.......>
"Sometimes, immortality sucks!" -- Amanda, HL: The Series
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:53:57 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: Re: Virtual Season - SPOILERS: BB, HF, Fever, AtA, LK
At 10:25 PM 6/8/96 -0400, Judith wrote:
>DEFINITELY DEAD: Screed, Vachon, Urs, Tracy
>MOST LIKELY DEAD: Schanke, Cohen
>MOST LIKELY ALIVE: Nat, Nick, Janette
>DEFINITELY ALIVE: LaCroix, Reese, Stonetree
Hey, I'll agree to Nat, Nick, Janette, Reese, And Stonetree being alive
but the loophole about Vachon's death is big enough to drive a truck thru.
And all those Vacharos want him back! Couldn't we resurrect just one
of the dead later in the (virtual) season. And that one be -- Vachon :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:10:24 -0700
From: Alora Clarisse Chistiakoff <alora@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight
Among many other things, Sharon said:
>I did not find the ending victorious or deeply positive in any way. For
>me, it was a tragic and unnecessarily negative and depressing end to one
>man's very positive quest to understand and perhaps better himself with
>the help of a lot of people who believed in him.
And I haven't heard it stated more perfectly. Thank you, Sharon.
As much as I tried, I have not been able to put a positive spin on LK no
matter how hard I tried.
No matter how sad the episode, it left me angrier than anything else has in
a very long time.
Thank you Mr. B., or your thoughts, for you imput, and for your talent.
But for me, LK was a disasterous ending to a loveable series.
And it was a rather unfortunate, and unnecessary, excercise in character
assasination; both literally and figuratively.
Alora: Natpacker...<alora@a.......>
"Nothing in life is worth doing unless it can be accomplished by a short
cut."--Remington Steele
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 23:17:23 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight
Sharon Himmanen writes:
>What is sad, to me, is that Natalie is portrayed as a fool in the
>last episode, unwisely placing her trust and faith in the one person
>she should *never* have had faith and trust in.
I think that is a bit extreme. Nick has saved Nat's life more than
once in the past and I think she felt she could depend on him to
protect her. He saved her from a serial killer in OtL, kept the
demon in him from killing her in SoB, had a *six-year* relationship
during which he didn't attack her (how many women in his flashbacks
that he had a romantic interest in can you say that about?). Both
of them had been hit by enormous emotional upheavals in third season
and Last Knight, unfortunately, heaped more emotional upset on them
both. Neither of them were really *thinking* clearly. Nat saw Nick
slipping away from her (he'd already almost done so in BB). She loved
him too much to want to let him go; she gave in to her own desparation.
Is that being foolish? Maybe. But it was only a matter of time before
Nat would have wanted to try Janette's cure. She picked a very bad
time to try it, but I think she knew she wouldn't have a future
opportunity.
As for Nick, yes, he did backslide during third season, but he hadn't
taken to getting his blood "fresh", nor had he totally given up cow
blood. In his emotional *pain* (Tracy, who he may have come to view
as a "little sister", is shot and has died; LC is leaving and Janette
already had; and Nat is putting pressure on him to try Janette's cure)
is it so inconceivable that his control would falter, especially when
faced with the Francesca-described "rush" of Nat's living blood? It
was a mistake for him to give in to Nat. Under less stressful
circumstances and clearer thinking on the part of *both* of them, his
control might have held. Whether their relationship would have
continued after that would have been another story.
The worst thing, I thought, was that Nat felt fear. She finally got
to see what it was *really* like for Nick to be a vampire, but what
really bothered me was that so many of the images were of vampire
biting and killing and none of any of the "good memories" of he and
Nat. Perhaps Nat got more of these images because she wanted to truly
*understand* him at last. But the result was fear and it came across
as being unbelievably *cruel* treatment of Nat.
>Nick fails to find the faith in himself that Natalie claims to see
>so clearly.
I felt Nat's words to Nick before he bit her was a "pep talk", a way
to make him focus on the good, human side of himself. I do agree
that he didn't have enough faith, but I attribute some of that to LC
showing up and trying to sway him again with all his old arguments.
Had LC not been there, yes, Nick's failure to control himself would
still have been there, but I think he would have tried to get her
medical help. There's no way to know if he really did take *too
much* or was just so appalled that he couldn't stop that he wasn't
paying as much attention to whether she was truly so far gone that she
would either die or need to be brought across.
>He kills yet another woman out of uncontrollable lust and hunger.
I think you do Nick some disservice with this comment too. Nick has
suffered from emotional traumas in third season, Last Knight heaped
three things on him all in one night. So I don't think the
"uncontrollable lust and hunger" was the sole problem. If just lust
is considered, Nick could hardly be seen to have given in to that.
He hardly touched Nat before biting her, in an effort, I think, to
try to control that aspect of things. Hunger might have played a
factor, but I think it was more the overwhelming *experience* of
having *fresh blood* after so long a time of a restricted cow blood
diet. He was *intoxicated* by the experience of feeding on her.
>Then he proceeds to give up in the face of these failures and attempt
>to commit suicide.
You can lay blame on him for that? After all the trauma he had
suffered and then to fail with Nat? I believe that was the most pain
Nick has ever been in (outside of maybe bringing Janette back over).
Would you really have expected him to have not wanted to die?
>To add insult to injury, Nick doesn't even have the courage to take
>his own life.
Perhaps because there is still deep down some little spark of hope
that he will find some peace and salvation. Nick was brought up
Catholic and was taught suicide is a sin. He may have been grasping
for that faith Nat had or still trying to find some faith of his own.
But is it really "courage" to take your own life? Would watching
Nick take his own life been any better, made us feel any less hurt
and betrayed?
>I did not find the ending victorious or deeply positive in any way.
I didn't like the ending either. To watch Nick die in such pain
and despair... The *only* positive thing was that Nick was able to
see that LC was not the *sole* source of all the "evil" of his
existence. That made it possible for him to not give in to what LC
was saying, to see LC's arguments for the empty lies and attempt to
hold Nick that they really were. So in a way that was some sort of
"victory" over LC. LC realized that Nick was lost to him. It is
ironic, though, that in the end, Nick would put his faith in *LC*
to end his pain.
>For me, it was a tragic and unnecessarily negative and depressing
>end to one man's very positive quest to understand and perhaps better
>himself with the help of a lot of people who believed in him.
I agree. Although I don't think a "happy ending" would have worked,
I certainly didn't like the level of tragedy that we got. There is
tragedy and there is *tragedy*. Adding a few "ambiguities" in the
end doesn't change the *feeling of extreme tragedy* in Last Knight.
Or the feeling of finality. It would take some very creative writing
to write a way for Nick and Nat to have survived LK. I would rather
have seen Nick leave with LC, or have just seen the show have no
closure at all than what we got. Maybe I won't always feel this way,
but LK just effectively made all of Nick's questing to be something
better a *waste*. And that's wrong.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
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Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
