FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9606 Part 1
June 1, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9606" Part 1
TOPICS:
SPOILER: AtA, LK -- Tracy
Urs and Lacroix
Urs & LC-- Spoiler: A to A
Divia's victims, esp. Urs
virtual season - misgivings (4)
Spoilers: Last Knight (this refers to the bit about Tracy's "trust") (2)
Urs and LaCroix (Ashes to Ashes spoilers)
A listmommy's opinion on the virtual season (2)
Divia's victims, esp. Urs (AtA spoilers)
Urs and Lacroix (AtA spoilers)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 03:46:06 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: AtA, LK -- Tracy
>
> Sandra:
>
> > Or what if she caught vampirism from kissing Vachon in Fever and it
> > just took until LK for it to start defeating her body's defenses?
> TJ:
> Or what if male vampires aren't as sterile as we thought ...
The world would be littered with Nicklets. 800 years worth.
Possibly a fair number of Vachonlets, too, but he seems to have
killed everyone on the first date for quite a long time, which would tend
to moot out what you might call your birth control problems... <g>.
And then there's the question of Lacroixlets, as it were
<shudder>. I suspect he was a love 'em and drain 'em kind of guy, though,
too. <kiss, hiss, thank you miss?>
Apache
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 04:18:59 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Urs and Lacroix
I like the idea they were having a relationship, but have to agree
that it's only one possible reading of the "it's not what it looks like"
scene in 'Ashes.' I agree, in hindsight, the 'innocent goddess'
remark in 'Black Buddha' can be taken as an expression of appreciation
and/or lust, but Lacroix doesn't know much about Urs then, since he thinks
she's a couple hundred years old, which means they can't have shared blood
yet, or he'd know she's not. (Isn't it wonderful how we reconcile things
that are really due to the fact that the script saying Urs is 120 years
old just hadn't been written yet?)
Also, even granting Lacroix might feel some attraction to Urs, I
have to say that comparing her with Fleur is pretty implausible. Fleur's
fascination lay in her kindness and her mind -- this was a girl of the
13th century who wanted to know about *stars.* Lacroix was a Roman who had
lived through the era of the decline of knowledge in the Western world,
and the Renaissance -- the reclamation in Western Europe of secular
knowledge and texts that would have been commonplace in Lacroix's mortal
lifetime -- was still a couple hundred years in the future. I've always
thought that Fleur's intellectual curiosity, coupled with the earlier,
sweetly feminine kindness, just devastated Lacroix -- here was a woman who
was a pearl beyond price, in the form of a barely adolescent girl. The
subtext with memories of Divia, an incredibly smart but incredibly evil
young girl, would have been operating on him too.
Urs, by contrast, is a sexually mature young woman with the
intellectual powers of a flea, though she has an interestingly strong
intuitive understanding of matters of the heart. She has in common with
Fleur an almost reflexive feminine kindness that is very sweet, which
brought out an infrequently-expressed sweetness in Vachon, her master. She
is naive, rather than innocent. That (and her beauty) could attract
Lacroix, I think, but never command his heart the way Fleur and even Divia
did. On Urs' side, since she prefers lovers who will act out the role of
rejecting fathers, who better than Lacroix? The question is not if he'll
dump her, but when.
Incidentally, I've always thought Urs and Vachon would have been
lovers; there was too much intimacy in their interaction for me to think
otherwise, and besides, there seems to be a lot of sex in the FK vampire
community. But if Urs had taken up with Lacroix, or been taken up by him,
I should say, I bet she would be absolutely offlimits to anyone else,
including Vachon.
Apache
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 04:21:22 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Urs & LC-- Spoiler: A to A
The header says it. My previous message should have had this
note in the heading; sorry. I hope seeing this in the post index will
prevent anyone from being spoiled.
Apache
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 10:57:01 -0400
From: Linda Simon <lsimon@h.......>
Subject: Divia's victims, esp. Urs
Didja notice Urs was the only one to fight back?
Linda Simon - NatPacker, subliminal Cousin
"Oh Elizabeth, your justice would freeze beer!" John Proctor, THE CRUCIBLE
by Arthur Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 09:08:15 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: virtual season - misgivings
Sandra writes:
>>Assuming a *virtual season* should have 22 episodes, do we have that
>>many really good writers to write them?
>There are many good writers posting to the fic list.
Very true. However, as far as I know, most of them are not interested
in participating in the virtual season. Someone may correct me if I'm
wrong about that, but that's certainly the impression I've gotten.
>>Lack of time.
>
>I can see ways around this too. Like the real FK, the virtual season
>could start in September, with weekly postings of six or seven
>stories.
It still could be a problem.
>>And if these things aren't proof-read, spell-checked, etc., they are
>>going to be subjected to a LOT of ridicule.
>
>Well, most authors would probably do this anyway. I do it.
Yes, Sandra, you do. But have you read fkfic recently? A lot of
people can't be bothered with such *niceties*.
>But I would think that it was *content* that would be a bit more
>important for criticism than form.
Agreed. Which brings up another problem: if folks' stories are going
to be torn apart, their feelings are going to be hurt. And after the
first one of those, nobody is going to post another story.
>>everyone who participates is going to want to write a *character*
>>story.
>Well, yes, I can see this point. FK had stories that *focused* on
>characters (FWTD, for example) though.
Yes, they did. About 4-6 per season or so. All the others did not. I
don't see many fans writing non-character stories. How many stories
have ever been posted to fkfic that are not character stories? Not
precious many.
>>Who's going to write the kind of general, "fill an hour time slot"
>>cop story that comprises most of an FK season?
>Well, while I think the "cop story" element should be in stories, I
>think it would be interesting to see whether a "virtual season" would
>be different,
Iow, no one. :-)
>>_Everyone_ is going to want to write episode one.
>Probably. But does that automatically mean that people who write
>(or decide to write) an "episode one" aren't going to post their
>version?
I don't know. It does mean their feelings will likely be hurt, though,
that *their* story wasn't chosen.
>The "virtual season" would go with one version, but no one's
>forcing anyone to *not post* stories of their own if they want to.
Ah, but that's the crux of the problem: the concept that somehow, some
small, self-elected group gets to decree that some stories are *more
equal* than others. To me, that is anathema -- and personally
offensive to me. And a recipe for trouble.
In my view, and the view of a number of others who have discussed this
off list, TJ and Sorcha and Tippi are creating an alternate fourth
season universe. That is fine. That is great. That is highly
commendable. This has been done before in fandom, particularly, as
Celeste reminded me, in Blakes 7, which had the "Bizarro Universe" and
the "Black and White Universe", among many many others. But that is
*all* that is going on here. TJ and crew are creating the
*CyberVanguard Universe*, or whatever they wish to call it. It has no
bearing on anything that anyone else writes. It has no bearing on FK
*canon*, though it presumably should have its own internalized canon.
And I find particularly annoying the concept that the entire forkni-l
list should devote its limited resources to spending a week at a time
dissecting this questionable prose -- or watching the handful of folks
who do end up involved in this patting themselves on the back for their
wonderful stories each week.
>>Potential for hurt feelings, resentment, list splintering is enormous.
>Yes, this is a valid concern. My only suggestion is that people try
>not to look on things *personally*.
But realistically, that isn't going to happen.
>I've never heard of a fandom wanting to organize a whole "virtual
>season" like this. I find it fascinating myself.
Again, as I said before, I find it fascinating and laudable - in
theory. But I think in practice, it all falls apart.
>>(re: two great stories that contradict each other) why should the
>>readers be deprived of the alternative pov
>Why should they?
Ah, but one is "VIRTUAL SEASON", worthy of a week's discussion on list.
The other is nothing, *just* another FK story on fkfic. To be largely
ignored, then forgotten.
This is another reason why I think ill feeling is likely to arise.
>>Time constraints. I think the idea was to have a different story
>>every week or two. What if someone gets bogged down and can't write
>
>As I suggested above, that problem could be solved by starting the
>season in September and having "rerun" gaps in posting.\
And, I repeat, that doesn't resolve the problem.
>>Why not just create a topic: fourth season.
>This would be an alternative to a guided virtual season. But at the
>end of the time period set for posting fourth season stories, would
>we then cast "votes" on which 22 stories comprised a virtual fourth
I have another suggestion. Why don't we create several different
fourth season *universes* that people can write in? Basing them on
several of the alternative outcomes possible after Last Knight. Folks
could write in whichever of these universes they chose, or in more than
one. One would be the CyberVanguard Universe, or whatever TJ et al
choose to call it. There could be others, organized by different
groups of fans. Any and all of this could be discussed on forkn-l. In
fact, I think perhaps more discussion of FK fiction on forkni-l would
be a good thing period.
>if a virtual season turned out to be entertaining,
>thought-provoking, and instructive, then wouldn't we all have been
>better off for having done it?
Agreed. But I guess some of us don't think that's likely. We look at
the potential for self-aggrandizement, and hurt feelings and generating
ill-will, and we worry.
Laurie
Cousin MBDtK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 12:22:12 -0400
From: Will Steeves <goid@i.......>
Subject: Spoilers: Last Knight (this refers to the bit about Tracy's
"trust")
I realise that this is a late reply, but thankfully I am finally catching up
once again...
And yes, I realise that I'm not Karyn, but I haven't posted here for a while,
and this seemed like a good time.
Cynthia Hoffman & Jane Credland wrote:
>On Sun, 19 May 1996, K Swanson wrote:
>> Cynthia writes:
>Actually, that was Cynthia and Jane, but we digress.
Conceivably, Karyn didn't know that the two of you were writing together from
the same e-mail address? I didn't know myself, until I heard about it from a
fellow fan.
Incidentally, the weather in Berkeley must be fantastic, and I am insufferably
jealous of the both of you. My last visit to northern California was in
September of 1994, and I still miss it more than words can say. Anyway, I too
am digressing...
>> This is interesting. I took her 'You should have trusted me' line to mean
>> trusted her with the knowledge that he was a vampire, as she has just
>> witnessed him vamping out.
>No. We took that line to mean that he should have trusted her with the
>knowledge that he was a vampire.
...but that's what Karyn just said, is it not?
>We simply disagree completely.
...but you both said (rather: _all three_ of you said) that you took Tracy's
"you could have trusted me" (I heard "could", not "should", but I could very
well have mistaken it) as meaning that he could have trusted her with the
knowledge that he is (was?) a vampire. What is it that you're disagreeing
with? Anyway, it must have been just a simple misunderstanding, so hopefully
we can drop this potential hot potato in the interests of avoiding a tempest
in a teapot.
>Tracy has never given Nick any reason to believe that she's trustworthy.
...well, other than engaging a criminal in a gunfight to the death (_his_
death, that is), I suppose...
I grant that this shouldn't necessarily prove someone's trustworthiness, but
it should attest to a certain amount of heroism. Of course, heroism is
_expected_ from police, so conceivably that act wasn't "the end all and the be
all" of her police career. Still, given her previous reputation as a pampered
commissioner's daughter, this was likely the first sign of any "backbone" from
her.
(And no, I'm not joining the Perkulators anytime soon, though I am a "Perky
Cousin")
>> Plus, I think it was easier because he didn't 'love' Tracy, so if it went
>> wrong, there would be guilt, but not Nat-sized guilt.
>Again, we disagree. Nick doesn't love Nat. He never, ever, ever said
>that he did. We have seen 70 episodes, and he never said it once. Not
>even in Be My Valentine.
Hmm...I can't disagree with you there, you two - I've never heard him say it,
either. Still, Karyn used quotes over the word "love", to indicate (I'm
guessing) that although he has never told her that he loves her, he obviously
does (did?) have feelings for her.
As for the fact that Nick never fully reciprocated Nat's love : Well, Nick
_is_ a brick, after all. :-) (...ducking q-tips from Knighties! :-) :-)
)
(As an aside...) Come to think of it, I recall watching the episode at our
local party, and at the point where it was becoming obvious that Nick was
"drinking too much" and would likely end up killing Nat, I just couldn't help
yelling "Stupid brick, let her go already!" at the TV. Even the Knighties in
the audience didn't disagree with me there. :-)
>Nick was willing to bring Tracy across to save her life. His actions
>weren't provoked by thought, but by instinct. If Natalie had been the
>one lying on that hospital bed (and dying as the result of someone
>else's actions), he probably would have done the same thing.
Probably...
>MBDtK
So, what _does_ that mean? I didn't see it in the Affiliations FAQ.
Conceivably, this isn't some Top Secret New Affiliation like the Box o'
Puppies, right? :-)
Cheers,
Cousin Will
---
Will Steeves, B.Sc. (Toronto, 1991), goid@i....... - "Neil Hull is GOiD"
Publisher & Managing Editor, The New Edition (U of T); Nu '96, Psi Upsilon
Ontario Area Coordinator, FREE (http://www.vix.com/free)
If possession is 9/10 of the law, what's the other 1/10? - Steeves' Laws Vol. I
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 11:32:02 -0500
From: "J.S. Levin" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject: Re: Urs and LaCroix (Ashes to Ashes spoilers)
>John and Donna wrote:
>
>>1) LaCroix finds Urs and Vachon together on the couch. Vachon says,
>>"It's not how it looks". And Urs explains why Vachon is there. This is
>>the sort of thing one says to someone who might have reason to feel jealous.
Actually, I have to admit that *my* take on it was "Sorry we're in your
private office! But we're not just borrowing the couch..." sort of thing.
I know, *way* too dull for this group <G>. Personally, I have no problem
with Urs and LC having something going on. Seems reasonable to me....<G>
Storm (Vaquera, Scrapper, Gangrel)
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned.
If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters"
are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 09:43:26 -0700
From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......>
Subject: Re: virtual season - misgivings
Jane and I have been watching this thread with great interest over the
past few weeks, and in spite of our own misgivings about this project,
have basically kept quiet until now. However, based on private discussion
with people, both those who write and those who do not, we decided it was
time to "me too" so to speak, Laurie Fenster's misgivings.
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, LC Fenster wrote, in response to Sandra who was
responding to <Laurie?>:
> >There are many good writers posting to the fic list.
> Very true. However, as far as I know, most of them are not interested
> in participating in the virtual season. Someone may correct me if I'm
> wrong about that, but that's certainly the impression I've gotten.
Most of those of us who write, already have a set of beta readers and
editors with whom we work and are not particularly interested in placing
our stories into another group's idea of "canon" when we can create our
own. It's tempting at this juncture to say something like "fanfic is
fanfic"; however, under the circumstances, that's probably not a very
productive attitude. Suffice it to say, since there are going to be a
number of versions of the FK Universe until and unless TPTB give us their
version of a "fourth" season, neither of us are all that up for fitting
our version of events into someone else's world, no matter how carefully
thought out it is.
This isn't a slam on anyone else, it's just how we see it.
> >>And if these things aren't proof-read, spell-checked, etc., they are
> >>going to be subjected to a LOT of ridicule.
> >Well, most authors would probably do this anyway. I do it.
> Yes, Sandra, you do. But have you read fkfic recently? A lot of
> people can't be bothered with such *niceties*.
Sorry for over quoting here, but there has actually been an epidemic
lately of people posting to fkfic stating outright that they don't want to
be bothered with such niceties ... it interferes with the flow of
creativity or some other such garbage.
> > >But I would think that it was *content* that would be a bit more
> >important for criticism than form.
This is an age-old argument. As a composition instructor, I would say
that form informs content to a greater extent than most people who ignore
form are interested in acknowledging. And I'm not talking about script
versus prose here ... I'm talking about basics of grammatical construction
and formatting that make things readable.
> >The "virtual season" would go with one version, but no one's
> >forcing anyone to *not post* stories of their own if they want to.
Okay. Our version of episode one annoys the hell out of more people than
we can count. We tried to write one that might annoy fewer people, and we
still annoyed people. We posted it as fanfic and that was that. We'll
stick with our own idea of how things happened in any case and not expect
anyone to accept it as "canon" because it's fanfic. OTOH, if "canon"
becomes, as we suspect it might, something like:
Lacroix bops Nick over the head and brings Natalie across and then the
three of them go off to explore the world together ...
We'll stop reading the virtual season because we don't like that idea. If
it's fanfic and it's well written, that's fine. If it's canon, we'll take
our toys and go home.
> In my view, and the view of a number of others who have discussed this
> off list, TJ and Sorcha and Tippi are creating an alternate fourth
> season universe.
And like Laurie, we agree that not only is this commendable, it's likely
to happen in any case and doing it in a vaguely organised fashion is a
good idea. But asking us to accept it as "canon" is simply a recipe for
major trouble in this fandom. And this fandom already has some pretty
major hurdles to overcome.
We're not exactly interested in creating new ones when the old ones are
still lurking in the background waiting for resolution.
> >Yes, this is a valid concern. My only suggestion is that people try
> >not to look on things *personally*.
> But realistically, that isn't going to happen.
Having been a part of critique groups for both the fiction that we write
and the non-fiction that we write, we'd have to say that watching 1000+
people, most of whom we don't know personally, rip apart anything we
write, would be a singularly unpleasant experience. It's difficult
submitting stuff to a writing group of people we love and trust and
letting them go for it with the words we peel out of our minds and souls;
letting strangers do it in front of other strangers is simply not
something either of us expect to be able to be sanguine about. It
actually scares Cynthia worse than being chased by a knife wielding maniac
through the streets of East Oakland ... something I've experienced, BTW
... with disastrous results.
> I have another suggestion. Why don't we create several different
> fourth season *universes* that people can write in? Basing them on
> several of the alternative outcomes possible after Last Knight.
This might happen organically, right? Neither of us are sure actively
"creating" alternate universes is necessary. We would view them as
restrictive, actually.
> groups of fans. Any and all of this could be discussed on forkn-l. In
> fact, I think perhaps more discussion of FK fiction on forkni-l would
> be a good thing period.
This we agree, would be wonderful. There's been precious little
discussion of some of the wonderful fanfic in this fandom as it is. No
need to create something divisive when there's already so much incredible
material available and talented people who will continue to create more
material without the attendant bad feelings. As a general rule, when
discussing fanfic, people tend to be kinder and more considerate than they
are when discussing "episodes," yes? Because they're aware that those who
wrote the stuff are standing there listening to the conversation.
> Agreed. But I guess some of us don't think that's likely. We look at
> the potential for self-aggrandizement, and hurt feelings and generating
> ill-will, and we worry.
We wholeheartedly second that worry.
Cynthia & Jane, noting with glee that "Kindred" ain't on FOX's fall
schedule!
Cynthia Hoffman/choff@v.......
Jane Credland/janes@i.......
Raven ** IB ** MBDtK
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 17:15:04 GMT
From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......>
Subject: A listmommy's opinion on the virtual season
Time to throw my two pennies into the pot, as regards The Issue Of The
Virtual Fourth Season -- and yes, this is the Opinion of the Assistant
Listowner:
People want to do a Virtual Fourth Season on FKFIC? Fine. Other people
want to get together and do an alternate V.F.S. based on a different
"comeback episode"? Fine. Another bunch wants to do an "Alternate Third
Season" with Cohen and Schanke and Janette? Why not? A fringe group wants
to create "The Search For Screed?" Go for it. The more the merrier.
Whatever.
Any of these ventures will create more fanfic, and More Fiction Is Always A
Good Thing.
Some of these writers will be novices, others more experienced. Many of
the apparently-less-gifted writers will hone their craft to become good or
even truly great writers: that is, after all, how writers learn -- by
writing. This is the way things work.
And in the end, some of the stories generated will be just-okay, and others
will be incredible, and a few will seem completely out of place in the FK
universe; and as always, opinions will vary so greatly on which stories
belong in which category that everyone will form their own version of
'canon'. Which is as it should be.
But if anyone is looking for the Official FORKNI-L Seal Of Approval on
their particular version of the V.F.S., well, I severely doubt that this is
going to happen. As per official announcement from The Tastiest Crayon,
FKSPOILR is going bye-bye very shortly; any and all Virtual Seasons will be
occurring on the fiction list. Which eliminates any possible advantage one
group's version might have over another's. So why sweat it?
Cooperative fiction has existed on FKFIC for a very long time. Hopefully,
it'll continue to exist, in the form of round-robins and our regularly
scheduled Wars and so forth. Imo, people are blowing the whole Virtual
Fourth Season idea out of proportion, as far as its relative importance in
the grand scheme of things. It'll be fun. It'll be a hoot. Will it be
universally accepted as canon? I doubt it. Does that matter? No.
Why go looking for trouble? That's the surest way to find it. Just write,
and have fun.
--
-:-:-:-:- Jamie M.R. <immajer@n.......> -:-:-:-:-
Asst. Listowner, The Smoking Natpacker, ConvCoS, NDNEDnik
-->>> Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies <<<--
** List Rules <http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html> **
The Truth Is Out There. Just maybe not in our jurisdiction.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 10:27:24 -0700
From: Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject: Re: virtual season - misgivings
The most important advantage of the so-called Virtual Season is its
potential to reinvigorate those who have been severely disenchanted by LK.
Its disadvantages have been thoroughly pointed out by Laurie, Cynthia,
Jane and others, who I notice are all Cousins and Ravens, most of whom
were not much upset with LK.
However, their points are valid. I never expected anyone to take the
virtual season as any sort of canon, but it seems that a large number of
people see it this way, and that will not work. It needs to be renamed
something less all-encompassing, and it needs to be regarded in the same
manner as, say, Tippi's EC stories. She's already created one "alternate
FK universe" there, and if one of us wants to write an EC story, we ask
her permission and check the previous ones for continuity, don't we?
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, LC Fenster wrote:
> The other is nothing, *just* another FK story on fkfic. To be largely
> ignored, then forgotten.
I've always regretted that there is so little fiction discussed on
forkni-l, but I've come to understand that part of the reason for that is
to spare feelings. How often do we say, even in private mail, that a
story is poorly thought-out, poorly structured, or that its author
desperately needs lessons in remedial punctuation? I usually just delete
it and move on, which may, in the end, be more damaging to the author
than a response would have been.
However, I'd like to see more fiction discussed on list, and I think that
the tendency to ignore poor work is actually an advantage here. Who would
want to discuss one of my little vignettes, for example, when they could
discuss something by Apache, Susan Garrett, or Marina Bailey, or several
others? With the LK fic, I'd love to compare and contrast the pieces
which bring in Janette -- golly, but didn't Lisa have the best title?
On the other hand, feelings are so easily bruised, and as we've recently
seen on forkni-l, some of us tread more carefully than others. Maybe we
can't be trusted to walk down this path. I hope we can.
*** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ***
"You revere all that is mortal, all that is human. If you really loved
her, you would never take that from her. You would rather see her die."
--- LC, in BMV
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 12:36:05 -0500
From: John & Donna Spert <jjs@i.......>
Subject: Re: Divia's victims, esp. Urs (AtA spoilers)
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Linda Simon wrote:
> Didja notice Urs was the only one to fight back?
That's true. Well, on the logic that the best explanation is the one
that fits our pet theory :-), she may have fought in order to try and
protect LaCroix. There's ample evidence in history that people will
fight harder for a loved one than themselves.
On t'other hand, Divia didn't seem to actually bite her. That may relate
to how humans don't fight once the teeth are in. By that logic, Nick
could have fought back, but chose not to. Possibly he knew that acting
as good as possible (turning the other cheek, etc.) was the best chance
of surviving her evil. (A technique he doubtless learned from Joan of
Arc, in between taunting her. :-)
John
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 13:47:31 -0400
From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject: Re: virtual season - misgivings
I think the notion of a "virtual fourth season" is kinda neat, and although I
have no desire to write for it (I'm pretty diffident about writing fanfic for
previously-existing universes, the only kind I have done being a few stories
in MZB's Darkover anthologies -- oh, and a couple of TV-related stories for
GOOD GUYS WEAR FANGS), but I would be eager to read it. To me, most of the
misgivings have been adequately answered by other posters who defended the
idea.
I would like to see script-style, but play-script, with dialogue and
description/commentary, not detailed camera angles like for a shooting
script, which WOULD be lengthy to write and hard to read.
I also like the idea, as a compromise, of several different "virtual 4th
season" tracks to which people could contribute stories at their own pace,
rather than one track coming out on a predetermined schedule. I hesitate to
commit to the disk-space use and reading time that would be required to
subscribe to the fiction list, but I would enjoy having a more unified,
focused "track" of stories I could download. (I bought a few of the zines
compiled from stories on the fic list and really enjoyed them -- but when I
consider that these probably comprise a small selection from a much larger
mass of material, the thought of reading it all -- shudder! [in terms of
time, not quality!])
BTW, I checked out the FTP site for PSUVM mentioned in a recent post and saw
a short list of files, none of which sounded like Forever Knight stories.
What button did I fail to push? (And why don't FTP sites include a brief
note telling what's IN each listed file? Gripe, gripe.) Can somebody
alleviate my ineptitude? Thanks.
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 12:42:56 -0500
From: John & Donna Spert <jjs@i.......>
Subject: Re: Urs and Lacroix (AtA spoilers)
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Apache wrote:
> remark in 'Black Buddha' can be taken as an expression of appreciation
> and/or lust, but Lacroix doesn't know much about Urs then, since he thinks
> she's a couple hundred years old, which means they can't have shared blood
> yet, or he'd know she's not.
He may have started to appreciate her qualities, but not yet approached
her as a lover. I see no need for them to be lovers in BB, just by AtA.
> Also, even granting Lacroix might feel some attraction to Urs, I
> have to say that comparing her with Fleur is pretty implausible. Fleur's
> fascination lay in her kindness and her mind -- this was a girl of the
> 13th century who wanted to know about *stars.*
I don't think it's implausible. Urs was a very large-hearted person.
Look at her behavior in Hearts of Darkness. She tried to warn a stranger
that she was making a mistake. She followed the woman around just in case
she could help somehow. In AtA when Vachon had been attacked, she went to
Nick for help instead of finding a hiding place, even though going to
anyone associated with LaCroix just put her in more danger. And whose to
say how good or bad her mind is? Fleur was raised in a medieval noble
house. Urs' childhood led her to a career as a saloon singer.
> Urs, by contrast, is a sexually mature young woman with the
You think Feur was prepubescent? I don't think LaCroix is quite that kinky.
Or do you mean sexually *knowledgeable*? Somehow I can't picture
LaCroix getting hot just because someone is a virgin. And what would
that say about loving Fleur for her mind? :-)
> intellectual powers of a flea
That's just nasty. What evidence do the shows have to justify that?
> is naive, rather than innocent.
This seems like semantic wordplay. Urs believes that being kind can make
a difference. Is that naive? What does that say about Nick?
> That (and her beauty) could attract
> Lacroix, I think, but never command his heart the way Fleur and even Divia
> did.
Divia "commanded his heart" in that he had a father's love for her.
Otherwise why did he reject her? And I doubt that LaCroix is falling for
"just another pretty face", or why haven't we seen such before. He hung
around the Raven plenty; where are the "flavors of the month"?
> Incidentally, I've always thought Urs and Vachon would have been
> lovers; there was too much intimacy in their interaction for me to think
> otherwise
This is debatable. Vachon knew her background of being ill-treated by
men. Heck, in BB he kisses her on the cheek even when he's leaving for
an indefinite period.
> But if Urs had taken up with Lacroix, or been taken up by him,
> I should say, I bet she would be absolutely offlimits to anyone else,
> including Vachon.
And Vachon, found with Urs next to him in the Raven, says "It's not how
it looks". So I think she and LaCroix *are* lovers and *is* off-limits.
John
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 13:13:44 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: A listmommy's opinion on the virtual season
Jamie, otherwise known as Listmommy, wrote:
> Imo, people are blowing the whole Virtual
>Fourth Season idea out of proportion, as far as its relative importance in
>the grand scheme of things. It'll be fun. It'll be a hoot. Will it be
>universally accepted as canon? I doubt it. Does that matter? No.
Thank you for posting this, Jamie! You've restored my faith in the Virtual
Season! It's been blown WAY out of proportion. As I recall, this whole
idea began months ago as a way to encourage fiction discussion on the main
list. That's really ALL it is when you get down to the essence of the thing.
It is not my intention, or anyone's as far as I know, to make the Virtual
Season into canon. I don't have that kind of power! My last name ain't
Parriott and my first name ain't Jim.
As I perceive it, what the Virtual Season is, basically, is just a series of
stories. The only 2 real differences from most fic, as I see them, are:
1. it would adhere to what we already know from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd
seasons' worth of canon. It will be chronological, which means that the
plane crash in BB *did* happen, that Janette *did* leave TO, and that Divia
*did* come back from Egypt to wreak havoc on Daddy's life. In other fic,
you can (as I and others have) write in any period of time in any season
using any characters. In the VS stories, we're adhering to the rules that
the passing of time has set for us.
2. it would adhere to an FK-like plotline. All this means is that, like
most eps of FK, most VS stories would begin with some crime or misdeed,
involve Nick and his partner in trying to solve the mystery of that crime,
show either Nick (mostly) or LC (occasionally) having relevant flashbacks to
some point in history, and then solve said mystery. I don't mean to reduce
FK to something so formulaic. It's just a plot skeleton to simplify things.
Obviously, there's a lot of room for character development, etc.
That's *all* I see the VS as: A chronological series of stories that
resembles, in structure, an episode of FK.
It's just for fun. It's just an opportunity for people to discuss new
stories in the same way we used to discuss new episodes. It's a poor
substitute, I know, but I think it has potential.
TJ, Sorcha, if I have any of this wrong, please correct me. This was the
impression I've had from the beginning.
Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Founding Member of the Unnamed Faction*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*
"Would that this thong were a less annoying undergarment." - Anon.
Wickedness Site! http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 12:52:04 -0500
From: John & Donna Spert <jjs@i.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Last Knight (this refers to the bit about Tracy's
"trust")
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Will Steeves wrote:
> Cynthia Hoffman & Jane Credland wrote:
> >Tracy has never given Nick any reason to believe that she's trustworthy.
> ...well, other than engaging a criminal in a gunfight to the death (_his_
> death, that is), I suppose...
Tracy has given Nick reason to regard her as trustworthy, in regard to
vampires. She saw Vachon supposedly hypnotise Nick in Black Buddha. So,
in LK she knows that Nick is a vampire; Nick must know Vachon is a vampire;
Vachon must know the same about Nick. Nick knows that Tracy observed
Vachon putting the whammy on Nick. Therefore Tracy knows that Vachon is a
vampire and never told anyone, including Nick. Therefore she could have
been trusted to keep Nick's secret. But he never trusted her to.
John
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