File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 39 TOPICS: Last Knight Re: vampire tears SPOILER: Last Knight--challenge! Spoiler: Last Knight (3) SPOILERS: LAST KNIGHT Rationalizations! Get your red-hot rationalizations here! > (spoiler)LAST KNIGHT...or maybe not... Spoiler: LK (long) SPOILER: Last Knight SPOILER: last knight: Natalie. SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT-- WATCH THOSE SUBJECT LINES! (spoiler)LK: Love; ending... All that's left . . . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:30:34 -0400 From: Chana Rossman <bonney@i.......> Subject: Last Knight Re: vampire tears >We've seen vamp tears on FK before--sometimes clear, sometimes not. No >consistancy in it, but that's hardly surprising. > >Karen I'm planning to ignore the inconsistancies myself. As far as I am concerned, the clear tears in Last Knight signified something very special. I am much happier that way. <g> This is not an end, but a new beginning! Chana bonney@i....... * I have been one acquainted with the [K]night * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:38:17 -0400 From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight--challenge! Jane, Lisa, Tami-Heidi-Buffy party goers started: >Natalie: "I'm simply too ______ and _______ to kill." I'm simply too full of faith and love to kill. Aaaaccckkk! <Choking on my words.> I'm simply too ornery and drenched in formaldehyde to kill. I'm simply too horny and soaked to the skin to kill. I'm simply too torn between Nick and LaCroix to kill. >Play nice! Uh-uh. >Don't know about you guys, but <I> need the distraction! Yup. Gk SoulDebris@a....... "Stop it!" Nat, popcorn scene. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:38:32 -0700 From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......> Subject: Re: Spoiler: Last Knight On Sun, 19 May 1996, K Swanson wrote: > Cynthia writes: Actually, that was Cynthia and Jane, but we digress. > This is interesting. I took her 'You should have trusted me' line to mean > trusted her with the knowledge that he was a vampire, as she has just > witnessed him vamping out. If she meant it about being a cop, agreed, he No. We took that line to mean that he should have trusted her with the knowledge that he was a vampire. We simply disagree completely. Tracy has never given Nick any reason to believe that she's trustworthy. Her behaviour as a cop is simply emblematic of this. If he is going to judge her by anything, it has to be by this. > Plus, I think it was easier because he didn't 'love' Tracy, so if it went > wrong, there would be guilt, but not Nat-sized guilt. Again, we disagree. Nick doesn't love Nat. He never, ever, ever said that he did. We have seen 70 episodes, and he never said it once. Not even in Be My Valentine. Nick was willing to bring Tracy across to save her life. His actions weren't provoked by thought, but by instinct. If Natalie had been the one lying on that hospital bed (and dying as the result of someone else's actions), he probably would have done the same thing. Cynthia and Jane Cynthia Hoffman/choff@v....... Jane Credland/janes@i....... Raven ** IB ** MBDtK We cater to the occasional fetishist ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:41:37 -0700 From: Ida K Egenberger <egenberi@w.......> Subject: Re: SPOILERS: LAST KNIGHT Rationalizations! Get your red-hot rationalizations here! :> On Sun, 19 May 1996, Cynthia Hoffman wrote: > Did some of you see a different episode to the one we saw? Or are you > subconsciously (or consciously) ignoring the scene in the hospital where > Tracy was laid out on a gurney, a nurse covered HER face (and it was > recognizably Tracy's face) with a sheet, and she was wheeled out. I haven't really thought about how Tracy died until reading the posts about it this morning (I had all night to think considering I couldn't fall asleep). But now that I recall the scene with Tracy being wheeled out and the cover put over her face it reminds me of I Will Repay after Nick had just brought Richard across and they were wheeling him out of the room. It could happen. What disturbed me about Tracy's injury and death is that her parents weren't there to be with her. It would have been a nice time to actually show the police commissioner even if it were only at a distance. From what has happened with these past episodes, do we think it's a good idea to ask the PTB for a movie? If we do get it we'd probably see the downfall of the entire vampire race, everyone dies, they'd bring back Stonetree to kill him off. Ida Egenberger egenberi@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 16:00:45 -0400 From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......> Subject: Re: (spoiler)LAST KNIGHT...or maybe not... >So the question remains..did he stake him? I really don't think so. He >probably whacked him upside the head, and brought Nat across. <snip> >Did it seem like a lot of this episode was dream-like? The echoing voices, >slo-mo, etc? When I first saw this ep, I hated this ending because IMHO the most like scenario is for LC NOT to stake Nick. They both would leave Nat lying there dead, pointlessly, and LC would drag Nick off to be his travelling companian again. I just can't believe LC would be so altruistic as to kill Nick just because Nick wanted it. I would like to thank whoever first pointed out on the list the tears issue because it let me justify in fanfic a whole new ending that isn't so depressing, at least to me and a few others (thanks all). However, after seeing the ep twice (and the last 10 minutes twice more besides that), I now think that the real ending may be something really cheesy. As in DALLAS and the dream eps, the real ending here may be that the whole ep of Last Knight may have been Nat's nightmare. 1. LC is pictured as being evil as Nat sees him, not as Nick sees him especially after the love and respect shown in Ashes to Ashes. 2. Nick kissed Nat (on the hair) as a sign of affection at the scene of the investigation and in front of other cops and co-workers. Nick NEVER shows affection for Nat in front of their co-workers. He is always professional in his attitude toward her before others. (at least in the eps that I have seen.) 3. The wavy dream-like shots of LC with no apparent explanation, slo-motion sequence inside the police station, and the general dream-like quality of this ep that a lot of others have commented on. 4. Nat just blurts out that she loves Nick. I was cheering, but she's avoided that before when there were other more suitable occasions for that declaration. 5. And finally it could have been Nat's subconcious warning her not to trust a guy who is basically suicidal. (If you're an immortal vamp and want to become mortal and live maybe 40 more years only, then from that POV he's suicidal.) There are just my opinion and I could be wrong. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:53:46 -0700 From: Antonia Spadafina <asginger@i.......> Subject: Spoiler: LK (long) Hi all Well, it s been a busy morning. I finally saw LK after weeks of speculation. I m posting these thoughts before reading any of the flurry of postings I m sure await me in my mailbox. I hope you ll favor me with responses to the theories and questions I put forth. I have never written so detailed a report on a TV show before, so bear with me if I am not as organized as some. The first thing that hit me is that LC is in the loft. I asked myself why. Was the deed at the end done already and LC was standing over N & N while orating? And does the subject of LC s oration torture him as well? But in AMPH LC didn t "trade treasure for an empty box" or an ash-filled brothel. LC wanted life at any cost, even at the hands of a child; he chose to live. The water pouring into the bathtub and then the blood dripping slowly into the bath water were, to me, symbols of the ways a life can be spent - in a gush, with a devil-may-care attitude, not caring of the speed or intensity that the life is wasted, or a moment at a time, seemingly standing still, the savoring, the tasting of each vital experience. I ve always liked the scenes where N&N touched. They are poignant glimpses into what Nat wants and what Nick denies. But they all seem to be easy, without stress for Nick, without fear for Nat (though there have been moments in some eps where tension was palpable [OtL, FtB, SoB] ). I liked the way the flashbacks were interspersed with the action, and the way they faded in black & white and slowly gained color. A metaphor perhaps to illustrate that the longer we harbor a memory the stronger it becomes, the more we color it with richer experiences. _However_ , we the fans have our own flashback memories and would have been just as comfortable interjecting our own scenes and memories. TPTB utilized so many flashbacks to limit the amount of closure we received from the ep, IMO. I must say I can also commiserate with Laura, just as Nat. Sure, both were professional women with demanding careers. "The mind is willing but the flesh is weak" syndrome. How many of us have succumbed to that fate and survived - and how many were driven to the same ends? And thus Nat decides to "get a life", even over Nick s insistence that Nat s life isn t empty. Does he see himself fulfilling her in any way? Sometimes I agree with Nat s early feelings in MBiaV, that Nick is using her to help him perfect his sham of humanity. Okay hope time: Nat says her life was changed 6 years ago. That statement fills me with hope. Even if TPTB don t see fit to begin a movie with the end of the series, we may still expect to see those first three years we ve missed. ( Or was DK three years in duration? I haven t seen them yet.) And why can t Nick ever seem to remember Nat s birthday was the day they met? Is it that a vampire lives so long that 6 years is an inconsequential amount of time to remember - that the days, weeks, months meld into a mere moment for an immortal? Or is it perhaps that Nick can ignore the passage of time for his mortal love by denying her birthday? (BTW, does anyone else think it s strange for Nat to be admiring a stiff on her slab -handsome or not - as in the tell-tale "not bad at all" from the OtL flashback? Necromancy on TV. Sheesh!) "You ll just have to love me as much as I love you." Well, that was a mouth full. Was this the first time Nat actually declared her love for him? I know, I know, in BB, she alluded to people who loved and cared for him, but she never applied the statement to herself. In StF, she said: "Ain t love a b***h". In Fever, she was angered that Nick could accept death so casually without taking her feelings into accounts. Yes, _we ve_ always known she loves him, but bless the brick, I think sometimes he was blissfully unaware. I still can t formulate the words about my feelings regarding LC s words on love. Maybe more at another time. Nick to Nat: "I can t. You know I can t." Well, isn t that a nice excuse. Why can t he feel the way Nat feels? What he can t give her is a physical love, not a spiritual love. (Kinda reminds me of Beauty & the Beast.) Nat tries to force a closure of some kind. But Nick resists. He s killed all those he s loved (boo-hoo). He loved Fleur, and he protected her _and_ her son. He kills those for whom he feels lust, not love. (After all, he was brought across because he could not bear to live without Janette.) I think he never really loved - except maybe before he was turned, as we saw in QoH. He kills Alyssa (in DoN), yes. And maybe others, whose names and episodes escape me at the moment. But he has no trouble bringing Nat s brother Richard and the woman with leprosy (what s her name?) in IWR. Perhaps the blood of those he loves too deeply, too physically, is a siren s song he can t ignore. Or maybe the blood of a loved one has the warmth he is missing from the sun. IMO, the love in the blood (good story title, hmmm?) becomes the greatest of foods: it contains warmth, light, trust, the path to salvation & redemption, all the comforts and protection a baby absorbs when suckling on his mother s breast. There is safety in drinking from such a fount, surrounded, protected by love. Tracy decides to be a hero. Is she imitating her partner s sometimes reckless behavior? Or is this another pitiful attempt to become her "father s person"? I have a lot of problems with this character (My apologies to all you percolators out there). The scene where Tracy is shot is just too jumbled to contribute much to the ep. Much too rushed. Maybe things do happen this way. Nick follows Reese s directions & confronts the perp in the locker room. He feels he can take chances, release the vampire, since no one else is around. Is he concentrating on Dawkins so much that he misses the presence of Tracy, another mortal? (I know, this has never been a strong suit of Nick s). He hypnos Dawkins with little trouble. Nick seems stronger. All the human blood he s ingested this season, perhaps, in SoB, NiQ, GVP, have bolstered his powers. Didn t Tracy realize she shouldn t have stepped out until Nick had the perp subdued? And why didn t Nick disarm Dawkins when he had the chance, instead of flinging him around in a vamped out state? Was the shock of seeing Tracy there enough to make him forget decades of police training? That s why I am sure Nick could not be in law enforcement if he were cured: his reflexes are those of a vampire, not those of a policeman: overpower & kill, not protect & serve. I ve watched the scene 6 times now. I still cannot tell how Tracy was shot in the back of the head. Gut, yes. Head, no. Where did the bullet ricochet from? (Someone asked that question last week in a spoiler.) I can t figure it. The angles were all wrong. And why are certain factions insisting that LC is totally out of character? His rhythm has slowed (more introspective) , but the tune is still the same (derisive). Okay, wait a minute, you say. Was Tracy actually shot in the head? The paramedic says she has a really bad head wound. Does this imply gunshot? Perhaps the force of the bullet to her gut knocked her backward with enough force to fracture her skull. - I know, there was blood. How else to explain it? Any medical people out there who can justify that amount of blood from blunt trauma to the occipital? Tracy: "You could ve trusted me." Once again Nick is wallowing in self-pity and guilt. And once again he presumes to do what _he_ thinks best for Tracy. Does Nick want to bring her across to save her? No. IMO, he wants only to assuage the guilt and pain. Nat acts as Nick s conscience in this scene. I have no doubts he would have brought Tracy across if Nat hadn t have interfered. Tracy would have survived; Nick didn t lust (oops, love) her. Also, Nat is a bit put out that Nick would bring a virtual stranger across and not the woman he supposedly loves. FWIW, I think Nat has always been fascinated by the vampire life. She just didn t admit it to herself until AMPH. The hysteria and fear of death - or hysteria and obsessive love - brought out the awareness to Nat s consciousness. Again, Nick is confronted by Nat s logic, and again he has no response but silence. Is that a glimpse of LC s quarters in the Raven? This speech of LC s is a study in subtle malevolence, undermining Nick s resolve to stay. Nick says the words that human propriety demand, yet I feel uncertainty backs them. LC: "You taught me that, Nicholas." This dig re: Fleur in BMV is classic LC. "Never aspire to mortality." "Guilt is a poison." (<== points back to ep: C&C). These are age-old maxims for LC. Nick: "I m leaving tonight." (LC s directive) "You don t want my love " (Again, LC s opinion) "Faith is a mortal folly, Nat." (The delivery is pure LC) "You can t deny what I am." (And this delivery says it s another s opinion, as well.) Then Nick intones: "I m not willing to live a life of eternal pain." Crikey!! His whole existence that we ve been a party to these three seasons has been defined by his pain and by his attempt to escape the pain. (Blackwing and Faithful Followers come to mind). How can such a line be rationalized? "I m afraid of what might happen." IMO, he s afraid he ll like the sensations too much, he ll kill her and add more guilt to his already heavy burden. He s afraid he ll get hooked (if he isn t already) to the "special" taste of love in the blood. 767 years as a vampire and a man still thinks with his gonads! (no flame meant, just an observation). Now, to the kiss. Yes, we ve seen better kisses between N&N (BMV and NiQ come to mind). Why is it so difficult for Nick to kiss Nat at this point? Granted, in NiQ the amnesia concealed his vampire nature. And I m a firm believer in the healing power of the mind, but not to the extent that the microbes in his blood wouldn t be aroused by hunger and take whatever steps were necessary to survive. (He could have taken that cop in the warehouse in NiQ. Oh, as an aside I just thought it was funny in NiQ that Nick went out into the sun via a "fire door"; I nearly lost control of my bodily functions ROTFLMAO; still wonder if that was planned, or is what I use for a sense of humor completely skewed from normal? You tell me.) The reptile brain is much more powerful, since it is unemcumbered by moral dilemma. And, remember, in BMV Nick was in total control for not just one kiss, but two (and we re led to believe quite a few more.) *The part of the scene I most admired - and I m not sure if it was GWD s direction or CD s feel for Nat s character, or feelings I am sublimating on the scene- is right after Nick sweeps Nat s hair back from her neck. Watch her eyes. At first, they meet his with a slight hesitancy, maybe last minute fear about the vampire aspect or maybe of her commitment. Then her glance flicks away \\I can t do this - I can t see him like this this is not who I love//. Then their eyes meet once again, but full of certainty, trust, acceptance, desire, as if to say: yes, I want him for my own, the man and the vampire; I know what he is and I accept it and want what he can offer no matter the risk; I _MUST_ see him; I must not deny my feelings. The other point I d like to make is re: Nat s heartbeat. It is my "cheesy rationalization" for why I believe Nat is alive. Her heartbeat fades in volume, not strength, as if Nick has let his awareness of it slide away. It doesn t falter or stop abruptly. I listened quite carefully. I believe she is only unconscious, though very weak. I think LC s entrance line at the end is right on target for the character. He equates the loss of a life to a light being extinguished. All actions hold the same significance. I feel LC is "all there" but in a more mature and subtle way - he s faced all his demons now and can afford to be less relentless and more magnanimous (don t cringe). A subtle and civilised evil that reshapes itself to those surrounding it is by far the most dangerous; it takes you off-guard, catches you unawares, makes you doubt your every resolve. (Check out the Coldfire Trilogy by CS Friedman - illustrates this type of evil quite well.) If I have completely missed the boat on LC and he has undergone some stunning transformation to demi-god, please fill me in because I must have missed it. Nick: "I couldn t stop myself " OTOH, at this moment I would ve expected some retort such as "You re not supposed to" (wasn t this line in an ep somewhere? Swiss cheese brain - trying to learn CGI & PERL for work, I fear I m an old dog and this is a new trick -and suffering from CRS). And, no, Nick does not take more blood. He leans over and kisses Nat on the cheek. You can hear the sound if you turn up the volume. LC: "We even have time for a burial if you like " IMO, this is not an accomodation to Nick s sensibilities so much as LC s need to put Nick s nose in it (like some wayward puppy). A funeral would cause him pain; it would show Nick the futility of loving a mortal. Repeating the opening lines of the ep I don t know how I feel about that yet. My take on the ending is thus: LC thrusts the stake into Nick, pinning him to the floor of the loft to prevent interference. He then brings Nat over, not because Nick s desires would be realized, but because LC knows how much Nick would despise the action and him in turn. Being someone s "closest friend" is anathema to LC s chosen demeanor. Bringing Nat across would once again alienate Nick from LC; they would be wary opponents. Then LC would remove the stake and revive Nick from his own blood. LC would once again have children (a boy & a girl), and would have fun keeping both of them out of the light. ( the rest is silence). Toni (though my name is long I prefer it with all its letters) Spadafina Knightie from NYC "Love is a sickness full of woes/All remedies refusing." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:05:24 +0000 From: Lisa Wolters <redjasper@e.......> Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight I promise I'll go away today after I post this... * * * * * * * This episode really is like a traffic accident, isn't it? You can't bear to look, but you can't bear not to. :) Amidst all of the things that I hated, will hate tommorow, will hate next Tuesday, next month, next year, etc., I have to point out three extremely powerful moments that I loved that will not stop haunting me: 1. The look on Nick's face as he and Natalie are clasping hands (after she tells him that she loves and trusts him--which Cynthia and Jane pointed out is exactly what he craves), and then the look on his face as he looks down, then looks back up vamped out, not scary at all, but full of love, trust and faith. That was poetry. (Though I sure as h*** could have lived without everything that happened after that bit.) 2. Nick on bended knee with the wooden stake held next to him like a sword, with LaCroix next to him. A knight about to take an oath, indeed. I can't get that image out of my head. That was beyond poetry. I held my little self together amazingly well last night, but I completely lost it at that point in the scene this morning when I watched my tape. I'd ask someone to make a gif of it, but then I'd burst into tears at my computer every time I looked at it. 3. Tracy sliding down the wall. As much as I've poked fun at the character, as as many stupid things as she's done, as much as I don't think she should have known what Nick was, that moment broke my heart. Unlike Vachon's death in AtA, Tracy's had impact. Lisa W. * redjasper@e....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:01:18 -0700 From: Patty Winter <pwinter@b.......> Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight Cynthia and Jane write: Tracy is definitely 100% dead. They pulled the sheet over her head. Hey, this is television. Nothing is 100% definite. :-) Especially in a show that has immortal characters! If someone called Sony tomorrow and said, "Hi, we're a big company and we want to sponsor an entire season of Forever Knight [or a made- for-TV movie], only we want Tracy and Natalie back," you can be darned sure that the FK writers would find a way to explain their reappearance! Okay, so there probably won't be such an angelic intervention. But if there's more FK in some form in the future, and if there's a compelling reason to have one or both of those characters around [in contemporary time, not flashbacks], it would happen. It wouldn't have to be a "Dallas"-type dream explanation as Arletta mentioned. Someone at Tami's party last night offered a scenario whereby Vachon rises from the dead and rushes to the hospital to bring Tracy across. Hey, all those hospital folks thought that Nick was dead, too; they've been fooled before! :-) Well anyway, the proper forum for *how* that could happen is FKFIC-L. I'm just trying to point out that it *could* happen. And knowing that it could is making my reaction to "Last Knight" ambiguous. If this were a show where people always died definitely, I would be sad to see Natalie dead. But knowing that she might turn up again in the future just leaves me with a "que sera sera" feeling. Patty p.s. I just realized that I unconsciously wrote this message on the assumption that only two recurring characters had died. I guess I'm assuming that Lacroix didn't stake Nick. Or more accurately, if the show never comes back, he did; if the show does come back, he didn't. :-) ========================= patty@w....... ========================= Support "Due South"! If you're a fan, let CBS know ASAP! =========================== Sunnyvale, Calif. ========================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:04:11 GMT From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......> Subject: SPOILER: last knight: Natalie. Last Knight diatribe follows. A r e W e S t i l l D o i n g spoiler space? Well, better safe than sorry. Nat has a life. But it's a life that, for six years, has had a vampire in it. Imagine the implications. No close friends, because she can't afford to get too close; she's keeping too many secrets. She can't tell her pals about the guy in her life who won't commit, because what if she accidentally says too much? She works odd hours, night hours, always on call, because she's the only one Nick can call when there's a crime victim with two little holes in the neck, or some problem in the vampire community that only a human can solve. And slowly but surely over the course of those years, Nick and his vampiric nature have taken over more and more of her existence, of her thoughts, until there's no room left for anything else. She's lost people she loves, she's lost and lost and lost until the only thing left is Nick; and though he's there in her life, a part of her life, ALL of her life at times, he's not *really* there; there's always that wall between them, that barrier which their love can never cross. So when her friend Laura Haynes dies (yeah, guys, real subtle -- kill the fan club president in effigy -- maybe FORKNI-L was Dawkins' middle name, so you could kill us too? Verrrrry nice. We love you too. Watch your backs.) after the destruction wrought by Divia, after Schanke, after Tracy, after all the pain and loss and horror, Nat decides that dammit, she wants more than just the pale shadow of love; she's tired of the excuses, and the distance, and the endless hoping without any tangible results. And she has faith in Nick, poor girl: she believes in him, and she should know better, since you can't believe in someone who doesn't have faith in himself. And it should be noted that to my knowledge, self-preservation instincts have never been a Natpack characteristic... "Brave but stupid" -- good words for Natalie. Who else dares to face down a starving vampire, a sick vampire, a vampire who could mop up the floor with her? She does what she thinks is right and doesn't think too much about the possible consequences; has a deep, unconscious faith, I think, that if she does the right thing, somehow the evil won't touch her or harm her... despite all evidence to the contrary. And so, feeling alone, having lost so very much, she reaches out -- having seen the 'miracle' of Janette, having heard the wonders of bloodlust from Nick, and knowing that she's stepped too far into the world of the vampire, of loving the vampire, to ever go completely back to the sunny world of mortal innocence, she reaches out to Nick; knowing in her heart that he won't betray her, that he won't hurt her... Except that he does. Or maybe he doesn't. I gotta say, they really did make this more ambiguous than I'd thought from the script. But dammit, if they were going to be ambiguous, they could have been ambiguously HAPPY. Where was the blood? Nick's always been a sloppy eater. And how do we know Nat was dead? Because LC said so? DID he ever say so? (Channel 55 screwed up the sound on last night's LK showing, so I've only seen it once, and don't remember the exact dialogue.) And even if he did... when did LC achieve this miraculous reputation for never telling a lie? Nick... well, he didn't know the difference between Janette vampire and Janette mortal; we're gonna trust HIS word that he "took too much"? Like he would **know**? Something else. Nick brings people across like some people change their underwear. He brought Janette back across, something Nat has to have at least surmised; he was willing to bring Tracy across, but not Natalie, not even to save her life?? This has gotta be having an effect on Nat. I mean, it just doesn't compute: he brings people across because he loves them, or because he feels guilty about their deaths. So if he's unwilling to bring Nat across, that must logically mean that he doesn't love her, right? So the whole thing turns into an issue of "if you love me, you'll bring me across", REGARDLESS OF HOW NAT ACTUALLY FEELS ABOUT BECOMING A VAMPIRE. I don't think she wants to be a vampire -- but I think she needed to know that Nick would be more willing to give her that, than to let her die. So oddly enough, I find this episode in character for Natalie. Acting on impulse, from emotion and from caring, the same impulse that led her to begin her association with Nick in the first place, when she could've just kept walking; and to help out all his little vampire buddies, without thought for her own safety -- she can be that kind of reckless for Nick's benefit, but not for her own? But Nick chickened. Faced with the erroneous belief that Natalie was dead (she's not, says the Webgoddess matter-of-factly) he opted to join her in death -- the safe, easy, cowardly way out -- rather than brave the dangers and difficulties and challenges of eternal life together. One might argue that he "did what was right", others that he "did what he rationalized was right"; all I know is that death is always easier than life, and that's why it's never the right answer to ANY question. In any case, I think Nat's reactions were rather realistic, that same 'brave but stupid' thing that's propelled her through six years, and everything just finally coming to a head. Which has nothing to do with how I feel about the episode, nor how I feel about TPTBs reasoning behind this episode. I just feel that this ep wasn't as misogynistic as some think. And I like the idea that Natalie finally stood up to Nick and said, "Enough!" -- and that anything that might have gone wrong from that point forward is really Nick's fault. :-) {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} for the spoiler list. -- -:-:-:-:- Jamie M.R. <immajer@n.......> -:-:-:-:- Asst. Listowner, FORKNI-L; The Smoking Natpacker, ConvCoS -->>> Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies <<<-- ** List Rules <http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html> ** The Truth Is Out There. Just maybe not in our jurisdiction. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:21:47 -0700 From: "Diana L. Edwards" <frisson@i.......> Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight SERIOUS SPOILERS AHEAD After watching this episode three times, I have to join the minority group that liked it. In the end it would have been impossible for TPTB to satisfy every viewer with the last episode. I *do* like the LC from the last two episodes very much. I do not think that LC was out of character. I *love* the interaction between Nick and LC in the last two episodes and I do find myself wanting so much more, but I do not want a Forever LaCroix. The only single instance where I have felt anything for Tracy was in her dying words: "You could have trusted me." Then the look on Nick's face. Ouch! This scene was well done. Play it against Nat's last words: "I trust you." It has always been my personal opinion (because in my mind, regaining mortality is out of the question and Nick won't bring her across) that one of two things would be a believable ending for Nick and Nat. 1) Nick runs from Toronto and doesn't look back 2) Nick kills Nat. I never wanted her to die, but IMO, this was almost inevitable from the start. It is a very poignant statement -- Nick killing Nat -- when you consider what she represents. (whatever you think she represents; mortality, love, food, etc.) Nat 'knew the risks when [she] signed on.' (Her own words.) Nat fell in love with a Vampire and that Vampire killed the Mortal who loved him. Nat admitted she knew that Nick might kill her and he did it like he has killed many Mortals before her. (I use the words Vampire and Mortals, not man and woman.) I'm not saying that Nick did not care for Nat. I truly think he did. In the end, he did tell her: "You can not deny what I am." Nick knows that Nat can never afford the luxury of denial. This is Nat's final warning --*Nick gives her an out*-- and it is a warning she refuses to heed. As for the end, I do not think that LC kills Nick (whether he stakes Nick is another matter) because LC loves Nick, knows that Nick doesn't want to die (or he would do it himself) and would essentially be committing suicide by killing Nick because Nick and LC can not live without each other, IMO. Add to that LC's 'life is a gift' theme. Nat has a slight chance of becoming a Vampire at this point, IMO. I don't think it would be out of character for LC to bring her across, but he may decide not to do so. Most of this ep seems to be time filler and events don't unfold as well as they could have, IMO. The Nick and Nat scenes were kind of wham, bam, thanks, but no thanks. However, the last scene with Tracy, last scene with Nat and every scene with Nick and/or LC were so well done. The direction was excellent. LC's monologues had the feel of a pendulum ticking away the final moments. (Notice the back and forth motion.) The final dialogue between Nick and LC really, really got to me. I've waited three seasons (ok, a year and a half) for that and it did offer this episode its own redemption. It is my belief that this ep had to end on a down beat. FK is ultimately a tragic show. I would not have been happy with a happy ending for it, and all-in-all, I like what we got. Just my opinions. Thanks for listening. ~~Diana (Cousin) frisson@i....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:26:44 -0700 From: Angie <alasher@e.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT-- WATCH THOSE SUBJECT LINES! At 12:56 PM 5/19/96 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 96-05-19 08:32:20 EDT, you write: > >>DON'T PUT SPOILERS IN YOUR SUBJECT LINE, > Once again I find myself apologizing. I am truly sorry, but I shall claim mental distraught, and actually admit that I was not thinking clearly when I wrote this post. I apologize to you all once again. Lasher ===================== @-->-'- http://home.earthlink.net/~alasher http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/5069 --<-'-@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:35:35 -0400 From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......> Subject: Re: (spoiler)LK: Love; ending... "Me too" on the answer of whether Nick declared his love for Nat. His promise never to leave her covers that. You know how men are about saying the L-word! I have always believed that Nat is Nick's true love, Janette his old girlfriend for whom he now feels a warm friend-type love. (He didn't have to be in love with her in order to turn to her for sexual comfort when he was desperate.) I think it is quite in character for Nick to ignore Nat's declaration that she would rather be a vampire than lose him; instead, typically, he opts for the melodramatic and self-absorbed (though noble in intention) "joining her in death" decision. I found the end of THE ROBE, where Marcellus and his beloved walk happily to their execution and into Heaven (they aren't committting suicide; Caligula is going to kill them no matter what), credible and satisfying; I don't feel at all the same way about Nick's rash choice (as elaborated in earlier post). Count me among those who are relieved that the ep wasn't quite as bad as I expected. With no proof that Nick is staked or Nat completely dead, "there are always possibilities" (in the immortal words of Mr. Spock) (it was Spock, wasn't it?). The only way to handle 3rd-season BEAUTY AND THE BEAST to plausibly save Catherine was to declare the whole thing a delusion suffered by Vincent while lying delirious in the cave -- this ending is much better than that! I hate "it was all a dream" solutions and will be furious if that is the tack taken by any future TV movie. Marci, will your 2 stories be on your FTP site? Please say yes, for those of us who aren't on the fiction list. Margaret Carter, obstinate Nick and Natpacker ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:44:34 -0400 From: Michelle Cox <TXMMC@a.......> Subject: All that's left . . . obFKspoilr space . . . S P O I L E R LaCroix - "Well all that's left now is to turn out the lights and lock the door on our way out . . ." OUCH! Don't know about you but I felt that line hit me like a physical blow. I think it completely explains how Last Knight came to be. Production meeting - Ok we *have* to wrap this up people and quick so this is what we're going to do. I could not help myself, I read all the spoilers. I was prepared to hate this episode. Yet I can't say I completely hated Last Knight. There were no surprises for those of us who read FKSPOILR and the newsgroup, except that it played infinitely better than it read. All credit for that goes to GWD directing and the performances of NB, GWD and CD. As has so frequently been the case these actors made the episode worth watching. I will particularly miss getting to watch these talented people work every week. Did everyone have out of character moments, you bet. Were there some very affecting moments, *YES*. Was it painfully obvious that the editing of the last scene was done as a "hey wait a minute what if we're making a mistake" after thought at the last possible second, without question. Still there is enough ambiguity in the finale to allow for more FK, isn't that the most important thing? To ambiguity, denial, & hope for more quality FK with these actors. Forever, ~Michelle~ Cousin experiencing a wave of altruism for my fellow FK fans. =========================================================================
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