FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 33
May 17, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 33
TOPICS:
How long is last knight?
Spoilers: F/AtoA/LK (long)
SPOILER: Last Knight comments
Spoiler: Last Knight (2)
SPOILER: Last Knight
SPOILERS: If Kat had written Last Knight
Last Knight and fanfic
SPOILER: AtA - Vachon & Urs (2)
Non-crucial LK spoiler
Thank You for the LK details (SPOILERS)
A to A--Constructive Analysis
SPOILER/Sort of-Last Knight
SPOILER: LK Details (Warning: LONG)
.SPOILER: AtA and HF
A to A--screwed-up language! (2)
SPOILER: LK Details
Last Knight
SPOLIER: Ashes to Ashes
Bring our yer undead...! (3)
spoiler: yet more on Ashes to Ashes (a ykyb...)
SPOILERS/ATA-HF, Divia stuff
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:06:39 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: Re: How long is last knight?
At 07:33 AM 5/17/96 -0230, you wrote:
> how long will last knight be?? one or two hours??
>
It is one hour.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 05:55:36 -0700
From: Karen Stortz <firefox4@i.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: F/AtoA/LK (long)
Marian,
You wrote:
>I wished <I'd> said something half as concise.
Why, thank you!!!
Karen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:55:09 EDT
From: Mary Anne Espenshade <mae@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight comments
Comments and questions. Mostly questions.
I've saved a huge file of spoilers about LK. I haven't read them yet...
I don't know if I will. I had even managed to avoid most of the early rumors,
and those I did hear about I discounted as too unbelievable.
Did our feeble attempts to save a show we loved really bruise their fragile egos
so badly? What did we do to make TPTB hate us so much? How did we matter so
much that spiting us and hurting us was so important? Did they think this is
what it would take to make us go away? Will it? It will certainly cut off any
grass roots letter writing by people who aren't connected like we are.
Or is it somehow our fault? (Such a Knightie thing to say!) I've read the
Forever Not challenge stories and far more of them ended tragicly that happily.
Did they think that was what we really wanted then? What we enjoy making up
as fanfic is often a far cry from what we'd want to be canon on the show. Am
I in such a minority in thinking that there is so much sadness in the real
world that I at least want my fantasies to have happy endings?
The last time a producer/network did something like this I never watched the
show again. And I still can't even with the whole thing on tape. (BatB, 1-2)
I hope that isn't going to happen again, but I haven't decided yet.
--
Mary Anne Espenshade
mae@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:00:05 +0100
From: "Kennedy, Jean" <jkennedy@m.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight
Warning: Completely emotional reaction to follow!
S
P
O
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E
R
This was absolutely shattering. First reaction: God, they must hate us, to do
this. As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing ambiguous about the ending.
HF was ambiguous; at least there they tossed us a lifeline: some bodies, the
portrait, dialogue. There's no lifeline here; we just don't see the deed.
Natalie sacrifices herself for love. Nick sacrifices himself for love. LC
sacrifices the thing he loves most (and so, by extension, himself) for love.
My heart's breaking. I saw this at midnight, and I'm still in tears. (Very
awkward -- what do you tell the people at the office? ) And I'm listening to
the Braveheart soundtrack, which isn't helping! Good thing I can touch-type,
because I can't see my keyboard.
*Devastating* monologue.
Lisa Ryder: kudos. Tracy got on my nerves, but I had started to respect the
character, and her key scene was done elegantly.
The single spot of comic relief (compulsive editor mode on): Reese saying,
"I'm here for you. Gotta go now." (Paraphrased.)
Fanfic? FK allowed me to start writing again (o wondrous love), but I swear, I
think all my stories died last night. I don't even know if I can finish the
one I started. (Writing takes heart, after all.) The only one I have left is
the one where, having done the deed, LC raises the shutters in the loft to the
morning sun, and I can't write that.
I can tell you without exaggeration that I can point to three times in my life
when I was really happy. Joining the FK universe was the third. And I was a
fool every time. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
Fool me three times . . . ?
Maybe I'll have a more rational reaction later. Right now I'm bitter and
crushingly sad. Yeah, it was just a TV show. And I was just a fan. LC was
right about love. Damn him for it.
Cousin Jean <jkennedy@t.......>
Faith, hope, and charity have been staked and left in the sun to die.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:40:27 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight
On Fri, 17 May 1996, Apache wrote:
> I'm going to leave spoiler space, since lots of people won't see
> it until Saturday.
>
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> She played the scene exactly like she
> played Natalie's fantasy sequence while reading the vampire novel in the
> vampire-novelist episode last year ("Stranger than Fiction"?).
Yeah, and just like Nick's dream in NiQ. I'm telling you, Last Knight
is someone's bad dream. (As in, "You'll never believe what I dreamed
*last night*.") If there's a "last night", there must be a next day to
be looking back from. They're all going to wake up the next morning in
fanfic. We always treated them better than TPTB anyway.
Sarah
Cleopatra
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:40:42 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: If Kat had written Last Knight
There may be some spoilers below so if you don't want even a hint, move on
to the next post.
I had a lot of trouble sitting through this one. It didn't help that I had a
busy night oncall and had to miss the actual showing at 3:30am. So at 5am I
finally had a chance to see it. I had to stop the tape about 4 times to go
cool off/stop shaking. However, I did like it. I liked the direction, the
acting and the writing.
S
P
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L
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S
P
A
C
E
Most of all, I see it as a cliffhanger, not an end.
If people choose to take it as an end, then sobeit for them. But I can't and
don't see it that way.
So, I'm going to have my own little tag ending, or new beginning:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dearest Nick,
I found that I could not let things end precisely as you asked. You may have
faith, but it is something I have not yet found. I could not let you go that
way. What if you were wrong and things did not end as you and she hoped. Did
you not listen to me at all when I spoke of St. Peter and Memnoch?
There is a cure. You have Natalie to help you. I did what I felt necessary on
that point. I just can't stay around to see how it all plays out. I'd rather
think that you are out there somewhere and we will meet again someday.
As Daniel Webster once said: "One may live as a conqueror, a king, or a
magistrate; but he must die a man." This is what I've come to realize you
want. Forgive me if I can't share your view.
For all eternity,
LaCroix
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my cheesy rationalization. It leaves room for lots of flashbacks
with LC and Janette, as Nick is teaching Natalie to handle being a vampire.
Then lots of time for them to search for redemption and a cure together.
Lots of room for sequels/movies/etc. If they have a need for a Next Gen,
then the flashbacks can be from the point of view of their kids (one of whom
has been "bitten" after mom and dad have gotten their cure, but it was lost
in a fire after they died after a long and happy life together.)
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 12:59:35 -0400
From: Chana Rossman <bonney@i.......>
Subject: Last Knight and fanfic
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
.
.
.
.
.
Cousin Jean wrote:
>Fanfic? FK allowed me to start writing again (o wondrous love), but I swear, I
>think all my stories died last night. I don't even know if I can finish the
>one I started. (Writing takes heart, after all.) The only one I have left is
>the one where, having done the deed, LC raises the shutters in the loft to the
>morning sun, and I can't write that.
Try considering this a challenge rather than a curse. How inventive can you be
in "explaining" away this horrible episode. There is, obviously, the old "it
was just a dream" sequence. (Redundant but effective.) But you can also see
how clever you can be. (Permit a slight non-FK reference but B5 is currently
an excellent example of how things can be turned around and twisted in the most
amazing ways.)
Ironically, I'm having the exact opposite reaction. I've never written
a complete story in my life (except for required stuff for English classes)
but I've been hacking away at computer late into night trying to work out
a plausible solution.
This can be explained. I can't remember the source of the quote, but
remember "Nobody ever dies." We can explain even this!
Chana Rossman
bonney@i.......
* I have been one acquanited with the [K]night *
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:38:03 -0700
From: Roxanne Piccen <CHIRMP@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: AtA - Vachon & Urs
Hollie wrote:
>I thought Urs said that she called Vachon when she woke up
>and he came over <snip>
That sounds about right, but when did Vachon get a phone
installed in the church? Did he whammy the phone company?
I know Tracy tells him to call her after he does his "now
you see me, now you don't" act by her car and he ends up
calling her. In HoD Nick calls him to ask him to watch
over Tracy at her apartment. I just can't shake the feeling
that a joke had been made about him not having a phone in
the church. Ah, it's probably just me, focusing my attention
on minor details to avoid the horrible, nasty truth leaning
over my shoulder.
Hollie also wrote (Hi, Hollie!):
>I seem to remember Urs having green eyes when she woke up
>just after she was brought across.
That's my recollection also. By vamping out, I meant the
eyes, the fangs and the whole bit. I don't think we've ever
seen Urs flash fangs before.
Tammy wrote:
>Vachon and Urs: The scene in the Raven with them laying on
>the couch and later Urs' horror over Vachon's injuries and
>growing madness hints at the rarely shown chemistry between
>them. <snip> more chemistry between Vachon and Urs than
>between Vachon and Tracy...
I agree they did have more chemistry and I wished we'd seen
more interaction between them. And did we ever figure out
why Vachon was acting so guilty when LaCroix found them?
"It's not what you think" seems a strange thing for Vachon
to say since he brought Urs across and I would imagine any
sexual behavior between them would be acceptable and probably
presumed. That was such a cute scene. :-)
Roxanne // Cleopatra - "Nobody Ever Dies"
RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work)
*********************************************************
Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:50:31 -0400
From: Diane Shea <KerrRaven@a.......>
Subject: Non-crucial LK spoiler
Small non-crucial spoiler for LK follows;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Laurie writes;
>>The place is deserted, chairs turned up. The LC bust from Pompeii is
there. (Hey, how'd they fix it?)<<
OK, how about, the archaeologists who were excavating Pompeii came across it
and painstakingly reconstructed it. Then sometime during LaCroix's travels
this century he happened to notice it in a museum somewhere, (or perhaps was
told by an enforcer?) and decided he had better deal with it before it wound
up on the cover of National Geographic for all the world to ponder. You know
how those covers affect people sometimes. He'd be recognized in a moment.
Best to "retrieve" it and keep it in the Raven.
I've done my rationalizing for the day!
--Cousin Diane
Eternal Seducer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:19:39 EDT
From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight
The Bust, Take 2:
Or, the Enforcers didn't mind, but LaCroix saw the thing in one of those
museum reproduction stores and with his sense of humor, just had to
have it.
I suspect at least one of the Raven's younger vampire staffers got
staked for adding a stuffed raven to it at some point. :)
Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 05:00:00 EST
From: "Cork, Lisa A." <CORKL@m.......>
Subject: Thank You for the LK details (SPOILERS)
THanks alot for the details of the LK episode. Just reading the
quotes from the episode posted the other day brought tears to my
eyes. I really didn't know how I was going to make it through until
tomorrow night!
Well, I can't say too much except I am EXTREMELY unhappy.........But
at least I know what to expect.
Also, I can always dream that Nick stops LC just before the stake
hits him and decides to bring Nat across...In my mind they will
always live happily ever after.....
Well..Off to the store to by a big box of kleenex...30 and 1/2 hours
and counting.....
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:02:49 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: A to A--Constructive Analysis
On Fri, 17 May 1996, Tanya Smith wrote:
> First, the writer stoops to writing simple sentence structure for Lacroix'
> part. For example: in the Pompeii scene he says to Divia
> "I want to live" Perhaps if he had said "Given the immediate peril that
> I have found myself in , I believe I would prefer to live, wouldn't you?"
Well, firstly, unless the same writer did both, that particular line of
dialogue was written by whoever wrote A More Permanent Hell for second
season. The Pompeii flashbacks were clips from there. :)
In the second place, LaCroix wasn't a 2000-year-old vampire in that
scene; he was a fortyish Roman general. I found Nigel's performance
wonderful simply because he *didn't* play the flashbacks as "LaCroix."
"Lucius" as a mortal general has an entirely different character than
"Lucius" the twenty-year-old fledgling vampire who has, in turn, an
entirely different character from a mature vampire of two millennia
suffering from empty-nest syndrome.
And third, I don't think that the more complex sentence would be in place
there. He's suffering from a hangover the size of Hannibal's elephants
(which you see in the AMPH flashback, but not here); a volcano is
erupting and about to destroy his hometown and everyone in it; and his
prepubescent daughter is telling him that she can make him live forever.
He is preoccupied with trying to figure his own way out of this and
doesn't believe a word his daugher is saying. I saw his line as saying,
"Yes, of course, I want to live, Divia; now be quiet and maybe I'll be
able to think of a way to do it and take you with me!" The 2000-year-old
vampire who has survived volcanos, earthquakes, wars, plagues, and
everything else the world can dish out might be snidely elegant; the
40-year-old soldier who has probably narrowly averted death a hundred
times in his life would not waste the effort on his rhetoric.
> In one line he recites he seems friendly, the next he seems angry,
> I also felt that Davies was somewhat uncomfortable placing his hand on
> Lacroix' shoulder. It seemed intentionally and strategically placed, rather
> than sponanteously committed.
But I thought this was the point. Nick *was* struggling with emotion.
It's not Ger who was confused by how to react but Nick. Here's the guy
he's spent most of 800 years loathing, and he's suddenly feeling sympathy
for a man he's recently thought to be evil incarnate. Of course he's
confused. And I think the hand on the shoulder was *meant* to look
uncomfortable. It undoubtedly was for Nick. It wasn't a spontaneous
gesture. We've never seen Nick reach out to LaCroix spontaneously. Look
at the flashback in The Fix -- the hesitation before he grasps his hand
to be helped up the stairs at the end. Reaching out wasn't a whim; it
was something that Nick had to think about, particularly since he had
just been told that anyone seen to be close to LaCroix ended up very
dead. It was a very difficult decision for him to make, to declare his
loyalty to LaCroix. If he had just slapped him on the back and said,
"I'm here for you, man," that would have been *so* out of character.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:09:01 PDT
From: "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: AtA - Vachon & Urs
At 10:38 AM 5/17/96 -0700, you wrote:
>That sounds about right, but when did Vachon get a phone
>installed in the church?
--I wondered about that too. (Can you imagine working for the local
phone company & getting that install order???) Then, I rewatched & saw
the scene where Vachon DOES call Tracy to say he knows who the killer it
(after Urs leaves). Vachon has a cel phone! Tracy & so many others do,
why not Vachon. It's easy to get & people only have to know your money,
not what kind of "house" you live in!
Leslie
***FOREVER MEANS...FOREVER!!!***
N&NPacker.. Wildly Romantic & Fiercely Optimistic
A Fourth Season sort of gal
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:19:52 CDT
From: Bruce Rawitch <brucer@i.......>
Subject: SPOILER/Sort of-Last Knight
Friends, Romans, Countrymen......
We come not to praise FK, but to bury it....!??!
People, People, come on now-I have seen more non-productive angnst and emoting
over LK than when they cancelled the show! We need to look at the positives-
1) I saw a posting from that good lady who posted the script for LK that some-
body, probabaly a sony exec called and TOLD the FK folks to make the ending
more ambigious. So now we have an unknown ending-LC holding the stake over
Nick, Nat out cold, but not dead yet... and none of the totally definitative
"No one lives, No one loves, everybody dies" ending we were originally
expecting.
2) The fact that some higher up took the interest in FK to have the ending made
more ambigious indicated to me that they still see it as a viable property
and didn't want future development options destroyed by a definite ending.
With the "ambigious" ending, they can continue the series, or got the Alien
Nation route, 2hr tv movies every few years....
3) With the ambigious ending, it's far more likely that any future FK efforts
that are made will be with the *same* cast-God spare us from a "FK-the next
generation"
4) With FK airing on the Sci-Fi channel at a reasonable hour we will be picking
up a whole new audience-especially when they begin to rerun season 1- for
people like me who were brought across late in second season (first ep I
rem-ber was A More Permamant Hell-and WHAM! I was hooked), I still have all
of those 1st season eps and most of 2nd season to look forward to-and many
more people will be joining the ranks of FK fandom-and when they find out that
the show was cancelled, they will swell the ranks of SOS-FK....you get the
picture.
5) If you're MAD about LK, don't write the list (well, do write to the list),
but write to Sony, Sci-Fi channel, Tri-Star (blech), donate to the FK
causes like the Pediatric Aid foundation, tell'em it's from FK-fold cranes-
look up the SOS-FK page and DO something-don't just be a brick and angnst
about it ;)
6) Lastly, I haven't see LK yet, just read the script online, but I will
think of it this way- LC says "Damn you Nicholas", stakes him to the floor
(thru the shoulder, or other non-critical body part-take your choice y;})
and then Lacroix brings Natalie across....What better way could he think
of to control Nick than to bring across his mortal love as LC's fledgling?
Just my take on things....It's what the 'responsible' parent would do,
making the hard decsion for his child who lacks the strength to make the
hard choice himself. (Ashes to Ashes really changed *my* take on LC)
Whew! didn't know I had that much pent up on this.... I now return you to
your regularly scheduled spoilers.
Looking Forward to seeing Last Knight this Sunday Knight/Monday Morning at
12:30 am in Kansas City... Where I appear to be the only online FK fan-still
looking more FK fans here in town...
Cheers
Bruce
____________________________________________
\ I've always felt that you can get more \ _ ______ |
\ with a kind word and a 2x4 than you can \ / \___-=O`/|O`/__|
\ with just a kind word..... \_______\ / | / )
/ / `/-==__ _/__|/__=-|
/ Marcus the Ranger/ Babylon 5 / * \ | |
/___________________________________________/ (o)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:16:57 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK Details (Warning: LONG)
On Fri, 17 May 1996, Melanie Moser wrote:
Regarding Natalie's loneliness:
> The one thing that
> changed that was when Nick entered her life. (Come on, she
> remembers the exact date!).
Of course, it *was* her birthday, which probably had something to do with
it. I'm guessing you haven't seen first season? :) Only the Lonely --
one of the best eps ever, imho.
Regarding Nat's belief that death isn't the end:
> A very interesting insight into Nat, seeing as she has had trouble
> believing in ghosts and reincarnation in the past?
In second season's Near Death, she stated very clearly that she believes
there's an afterlife.
Regarding a too-quick moment:
> (I hope someone will tell us if the Canadian version is different here?)
Okay, everyone, repeat after me: There were "Canadian versions" only in
the first season. Since FK was taken off CBS, all versions of FK have
had the same number of minutes, no matter what country the episode is
being shown in.
Well, that's gotta be my quota of spoilr posts for today.... One more
day till I see it for myself.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:37:03 -0400
From: Lynn Messing <messing@a.......>
Subject: .SPOILER: AtA and HF
Yesterday I posed the question of why Divia didn't go after Janette.
Donna G. Albrecht proposed this solution:
> Nick brought Janette back across, so she's his
> creation now. When she became mortal, she broke the bond with LC.
But that won't work...She went after Vachon who, if he is any relation
whatsoever to LC, is his grandson; therefore, she didn't only go after
immediate family.
Catherine Siemann's idea was that she didn't go after her because J. was safely
far away from Toronto. Unfortunately, we've seen that Divia does seem capable
of rapid, trans-Atlantic flight (cf. the decapitated body transported from
Egypt). She also seems to value being thorough in her attempt to make LC
suffer.
This is not to say that I want Janette dead; not by any stretch of the imagination.
Wait! I have it! If it was age and not resurgent goodness that kept Nick alive,
then surely Janette, who was older than Nick (or was she? Does her former
millenium or so as a vamp carry over to her second vampdom?), would also have
survived. So maybe Divia *thought* she had killed Janette (after all, she
thought she had killed NIck), but she was mistaken?
This is getting curiouser and curiouser <g>. Wait! could all of this episode be
*LC*'s guilt-induced hallucination/dream/whatever?
Hmm...Work has been insane this past week. I'm a bit punchy right now. Can you
tell? :}
cheers, Lynn messing@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:19:30 EDT
From: Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......>
Subject: A to A--screwed-up language!
Also, did anybody notice that "they" managed to interpret the language
of the Egyptians in the tomb, but in the flashbacks to Rome, Devia
and Lucius spoke English?
PLEASE!
If you're going to translate, be consistent.
Tanya
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:46:08 -0700
From: Angie <alasher@e.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK Details
> Laurie wrote:
>>Another fan (Lora Haines - President of the FK fan club) makes the big
>>time. As a suicide.
>Well, don't you think this says it all?
>Beth
Could you please explain this to me? I am kinda new, but this message is
quite cryptic, so please an explaination.
Lasher
=====================
@-->-'- http://home.earthlink.net/~alasher
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/5069 --<-'-@
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:58:04 EDT
From: Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......>
Subject: Last Knight
Before I leave to spend the weekend lamenting the loss of FK, and viewing,
for the first time, the final episode, I leave you with this:
Having heard a small detail about LK
Do you suppose Gillian borrowed from Shakespeare?
"For never was there a tale of greater distress,than that of Natalie
and her Nicholas".
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:03:47 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: A to A--screwed-up language!
On Fri, 17 May 1996, Tanya Smith wrote:
> Also, did anybody notice that "they" managed to interpret the language
> of the Egyptians in the tomb, but in the flashbacks to Rome, Devia
> and Lucius spoke English? If you're going to translate, be consistent.
All right, I'm answering again...
This is a very old FK convention. Goes all the way back to Dark Knight,
I believe. Give a few lines in the language of the day, with subtitles,
then switch over to English. We all understand what language they're
supposed to be speaking, and it's a lot more interesting than reading
subtitles in every flashback scene. It's also a lot less annoying than
the Hollywood convention, in WWII movies for example, of having actors
playing Germans speaking German-accented English. I've always enjoyed
FK's multilingual grace, even when they mangle the accents a bit. Would
the Egyptian flashbacks have been more evocative if they'd been speaking
Latin? I don't think so. Using the Arabic in the teaser was a good way
to establish the setting and the nationality of the characters involved
without having to spell it out explicitly -- "Look, here I am, a
graverobber standing in an Egyptian tomb. See the mummies?" For all
that TPTB may or may not have done in the past, for the most part, they
have not insulted the intelligence of their audience with such tripe.
That's what makes flashback-dating fun, especially when we had
Janette-dating -- that it's a challenge and that they didn't spell
everything out for us.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:29:57 -0700
From: "Toni C. Holm" <tch@w.......>
Subject: SPOLIER: Ashes to Ashes
Lynn Messing said:
>Yesterday I posed the question of why Divia didn't go after Janette.
<several possible suggestions snipped>
It's possible Divia had just watched Lacroix and the others for a
very brief period of time and went after those she saw in close proximity to
him. It would not have taken long to learn about Nicholas, especially if we
buy the idea that the blood she took from Vachon gave her any information,
but Janette was not around to be observed and unless I'm mistaken we've
never seen that Vachon or Urs were even aware of her.
Also, DD was only contracted for one episode (sorry, reality check
there...)
-Toni <tch@w.......>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:46:16 -0400
From: Nancy McCaskey <mccaskn@p.......>
Subject: Bring our yer undead...!
>
> Try considering this a challenge rather than a curse. How inventive can you be
> in
> "explaining" away this horrible episode. There is, obviously, the old "it
Still waiting for the "Top Ten" list of Explanations/Rationalizations for
Why It Didn't Happen... :) (Joke! Smile!)
And to get started, here's my TT List of Fictional Characters (other than
ours) who've already returned from the dead;
(vampires, ghosts, etc., don't count, with one exception):
10. Phoenix/Dark Phoenix
9. Grimjack
8. Dr. Manhattan (this completes the quota of comic-book characters;
there are so many!).
7. Aslan
6. Gandalf
5. Jenny Logan ("Starman," the movie)
4. Lestat (briefly became mortal before deciding it
sucked).
3. Highlander immortal(s) (pick one or all)
2. Spock
1. E.T.
So our vamps are in good company! Let's bring 'em back! :)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Someone also commented that Divia was capable:
> of rapid, trans-Atlantic flight (cf. the decapitated body transported from
> Egypt). She also seems to value being thorough in her attempt to make LC
Unless she actually took a plane and whammied the flight crew into
ignoring her bloody, bulky carry-on. :)
============Nancy McCaskey mccaskn@p.......============
Walk softly and carry a big, POINTY stick!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:00:17 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: spoiler: yet more on Ashes to Ashes (a ykyb...)
Sara Orel writes:
>Didn't our "friendly"...merc Dianne conclusively prove that Sandra
>is a descendant of another one? Or was that in Real Life again?
What?! No way am I related to LC! :)
Seriously, though, if LC frequented one house of prostitution, how do
we know he didn't frequent others? Or get cozy with some babe he
took as a reward for victory in some battle (he let his men have them,
after all)?
>Oh well, I wonder if anyone in the show has read the stories about
>Real Life? Nigel, you really should... Particularly you.
Why? What would he find so interesting about Real Life?
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
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Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:04:25 CDT
From: Bruce Rawitch <brucer@i.......>
Subject: SPOILERS/ATA-HF, Divia stuff
S S
P P
O A
I C
L E
E
R
S S
P P
O A
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L E
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R
Lynn Messing wrote:
>Yesterday I posed the question of why Divia didn't go after Janette.
Well, I've been mulling this over-Divia, while she is 2000+ years old, is still
reacting like as pyschotic child-like a child, she latched onto the first
avalible targets she saw, assumed that because they were in proximity to
"Daddy" that they were his friends, and attacked them. She finds out about
Nick, probably from what she got from Urs blood and what she sensed about Nick
from in the elevator ("One always recognizes family"). HOWEVER-we must assume
2 things: 1) Janette is no longer in Toronto & 2) Janette is no longer LC's
vampiric daughter, she is probably really Nicks, based on events in HF.
Which brings me around to my theory on why Nick survived Divia's attack and
Urs didn't and Vachon killed himself (slacker!) Divia, Lacroix and Nick are
all in the *same* bloodline-all decended from the *same* master-Urs, on top
of being young, is also many more generations removed from the "original"
vamipire source-Vachon may have been closer, we don't know how old his mistress
was. Urs dies-Vachon kills himself (for no good reason other than mental
anguish, as far as I can tell-would he have healed after divia was killed
off?) but Nick, who is of the SAME blood, so to speak, pulls himself together
in a Very short time and rescues LC from Divia. Hmmm....
More random thoughts- Why was Divia so much stronger than LC? They were both
about the same age, give or take a decade or so... I think is must have been
because she was in the sarcophagus for 2000 years with the ashes of HER master-
what came out of that tomb was more like a fusion of the two-Divia's form and
'pure' evil, her masters power and strength.
As a father myself, I really felt for LC in the scene where Nick staked Divia-
I thought it played really true-no matter what your child may do or how far
they may stray from the path, they are, in the end, still yours...
Something that I felt that was shown in A to A-Nick is starting to realize that
there it's possible to be a vampire, and not automatically be EVIL-perhaps
after seeing what REAL EVIL (in the form of Divia) looks like, he has a better
sense of persepctive...
Something else that struck me-Lacroix says about the Tomb- "The symbol of the
Sun God acted upon her much as the Cross does on us"- Why? Does that mean that
Divia would have no reaction to a Cross? or Nick & LC and other to the
symbol of the sun god? I think the answer was in Blackwing-when Nick picks
up the Shaman's ceramonial Knife, then drops it-he tells Nat that it is a
religious object, yada yada .... Fk vamps must react to whatever sort of
object that people put their 'faith' into-they must react to "Holy" objects
regardless of the religion-but what if divia were confronted with a crucifix?
She predates christianity by a goodly ways.... another Hmmmmm
Enough musings for now.
Cheers
Bruce
____________________________________________
\ Churchill's Commentary on Man: \ _ ______ |
\ Man will occasionally stumble over the \ / \___-=O`/|O`/__|
\ truth, but most of the time he will pick \_______\ / | / )
/ himself up and continue on. / `/-==__ _/__|/__=-|
/ / * \ | |
/___________________________________________/ (o)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:02:06 -0700
From: "Andrew E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject: Re: Bring our yer undead...!
On Fri, 17 May 1996, Nancy McCaskey wrote:
> And to get started, here's my TT List of Fictional Characters (other than
> ours) who've already returned from the dead;
[names snipped]
Couldn't resist the challenge (as Nancy did I'll limit comic book
characters to 3)
10.Red Skull (died of old age)
9.Lori Lemaris (body ripped apart by shadow demons)
8.Iron Fist (beaten to death)
7.Bobby Ewing (car accident)
6.The koala bear in Ford Fairlaine (hung)
5.Jamie Somers (long distance fall)
4.Morph (killed by giant robots; counts as non-comic since it occured in
cartoon)
3.Thdular Man (okay so he's a robot; I needed a character from novels)
1.Jason Voorhees (various)
--Andy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:10:33 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Bring our yer undead...!
>
> And to get started, here's my TT List of Fictional Characters (other than
> ours) who've already returned from the dead;
> (vampires, ghosts, etc., don't count, with one exception):
>
Sherlock Holmes
and you could make a case for Lazarus and the little girl who
answered when Jesus said "talitha, cum." I'd say Jesus Christ but I don't
want to get any painstaking historical analyses about how he was a real
person, etc.
Ap.
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