FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 30
May 15-May 16, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 30
TOPICS:
Chanteuse
Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... (2)
Ashes to Ashes/spoiler stuff
SPOILER: ATA / LK / comments (2)
Ashes to Ashes Spoilers (2)
SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
SPOILER: AtA - Urs
Ashes to Ashes <Spoiler>
SPOILER: Last Knight (about such)
Whammies
SPOILERS:F/ AtA/ LK (long) (3)
Blood Knowledge (Francesca & AtA)
Forever Knight (fwd)
SPOILER: AtA - LaCroix as Daddy (2)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:47:36 -0400
From: Carla Pickering <carlap@e.......>
Subject: Chanteuse
Deb wrote:
>
>May I nominate "Chanteuse" for Urs? French for female singer which is what
>she was when Vachon met her.
I kind of like that. I don't really think Urs (Urse or Urs??) was as dumb
as everyone inisists. When I was in college (the first time) I knew young
women who were used, abused and trashed by fraternity jocks (no offense) and
ended up acting *a lot* like Urs.
Saille & Joanna D., WW
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:06:11 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
> In Strings, Nick hypnotized the girl who wanted to kill herself into
>knowing that she did not have to kill herself.
A few others, in Unreality TV, Nick tries to whammy the reporter because the
Enforcers WERE going to kill her. In Close Call, he whammies Schanke after
his partners sees him fly, the whammy only eliminated the flight, nothing
else. There are more, I'm sure, just can't think of them all now.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie AKA Carrie the Cruel
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:17:49 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes/spoiler stuff
Deb wrote:
>and what was with LaCroix going along with Nick's request so easily?
>"What would you like her to remember?" HUH? This is LaCroix. He
>doesn't ask Nick, he tells him. seems like Nick is the only one who's
>been changing lately.
Well, at that particular moment in time, LC owed Nick bigtime. One
could look at it as a quid pro quo.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:44:45 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: ATA / LK / comments
S
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Karen wrote:
>Ack-- I must have re-subscribed to the spoiler list in the middle of
>this discussion--- what the h*** is going on in this ep? From what I
>can infer, LaCroix stakes Nick???
The way the episode was originally written, Nick kills Nat by draining
her, then LC kills Nick and intones Shakespeare (certain of the last
verses of Romeo and Juliet) over the body. It was really ghastly.
(Actually, the version earlier than that was even worse: Nat actually
asked Nick to kill her, and LC killed Nick because he was angry and
jealous, rather than the way it is now - because Nick asked him to, as
a friend, to end his suffering and let Nick and Nat be joined in death.
(Yeah, I know, both versions suck.)
So, fortunately, they took out the Romeo and Juliet crap pretty fast,
but there was still an ending where LC staked Nick. You didn't see it
actually happen, but you saw Nick react to the impact.
HOWEVER - at 2 am the last day of filming, the folks in Toronto got a
phone call (we believe it came from Sony, not TriStar), telling them to
change the ending and make it more "ambiguous". So now it ends with LC
raising the stake. No impact, no bringing it down on Nick - you can
believe whatever you like.
But it's still a sucky story for the final episode, imo. (Though for
my Cousinly predilections, Nick and Nat walking off into the sun
together would have been even worse.)
Cousin LaurieCF
M+B+D+T+K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:56:04 -0300
From: Paula Hurley <dkknight@a.......>
Subject: Ashes to Ashes Spoilers
I was just watching AtA for the umpteenth time about 10 minutes ago, and I
noticed one little discrepancy, that I don't think anyone else has mentioned
as of yet. In the VERY one-sided fight scene between Nick & Divia, Ger's
stunt double, has on a red shirt that has black endings on the sleeves, but
Ger himself has on a totally red shirt, as can be seen in the next shot when
he is lying on the sun painting. So did anybody else notice this??
Paula
dkknight@a.......
Dark Knightie * Light Cousin * Valentine * Nick&NatPacker * The Unnamed Faction
"It's ALWAYS about YOU!" - LaCroix(Can't Run, Can't Hide)
"Clearly I have a future as a sobering influence on the disenfranchised!" -
LC(AtA)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:12:38 -0500
From: Hollie Hoffman <hhoffman@u.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
>BTW, didn't Urs and Vachon look adorable when LaCroix found them in
>the Raven? I thought that was so sweet of Vachon to stay with her
>after her nightmare. Did he happen to be staying at the Raven that day
>or did he just sense that she was upset and came?
I thought she said that she called him when she woke up and he came over,
but I'd have to check my video to be sure.
Hollie
Pensacola
hhoffman@u.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:16:36 -0500
From: Hollie Hoffman <hhoffman@u.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: AtA - Urs
>Great scene in the elevator. Urs vamped out *immediately* when she
>knew someone was there. She turned in Divia's direction with fangs
>bared without even knowing who it was. Of course, seeing Vachon go
>strange on her, as Schanke would say, probably put her on alert. BTW,
>is this the first time she's vamped out? HoD was her big ep and I don't
>remember seeing her do it in there.
I seem to remember her having green eyes when she woke up just after she was
brought across.
Hollie
Pensacola
hhoffman@u.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:26:49 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes Spoilers
Paula wrote:
: In the VERY one-sided fight scene between Nick & Divia, Ger's
:stunt double, has on a red shirt that has black endings on the sleeves, but
:Ger himself has on a totally red shirt, as can be seen in the next shot when
:he is lying on the sun painting. So did anybody else notice this??
I think what you are seeing is the flameproof clothes which were underneath
the red shirt. (Sure made the stunt double look bulky, but I don't think I
would have wanted to hear what happened if they tried to go without it.)
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:29:17 -0400
From: Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......>
Subject: Ashes to Ashes <Spoiler>
My two cents worth on "Ashes to Ashes"
Wow! And I thought Francesca was a spooky vampire....
This one was excellent. Pure and simple. I can't list all the
good things about this without rambling on for pages, so I'll try
for just the highlights.
Good Things
Lacroix: What can I say about a character that I love to
hate? Evil, mean-spirited man whose chief distraction in life
is emotionally torturing his favorite son finally getting a
bitter taste of his own medicine from his evil, mean-spirited
biological daughter. I actually was looking forward to gloating
while father got his just deserts during the confrontation
between himself and daughter. But Mr. Bennett when ahead and
spoiled my anticipation by revealing a sad and tragic immortal
who after two thousand years is still haunted with guilt and pain
over having killed his daughter. How wonderful it was to see the
play of emotions upon Lacroix's face as he was slowly made aware
of Divia's presence and her intent: his anxiety when he first
senses Divia; his disgust when he discovers the severed head; his
fear then quick resumption of control when he hear's her voice on
the phone; his self-recrimination as he tells Nick of Divia's
inherited evil; the pain in his voice as he says "my beautiful
daughter"....I could go on and on. Suffice to say that Mr.
Bennett pulled off what I had previously thought was impossible -
he made me feel sorrow and pity for Lacroix. That alone deserves
a Gemini award. Bravo, Mr. Bennett.
Divia: In my review for Francesca, I complimented the actress
who played her for being one of the few FK guest stars to play a
vampire convincingly. However, Ms. Kathlyn Long's performance
makes all other guest staring vampires (and maybe one or two
regulars), pale in comparison. I can't think of a single false
note in this girl's performance. The anger, rage, sinister,
seductive EVIL of this "child" was enthralling, and at times,
truly frightening. When she asked then demanded that Lacroix
make love to her, you *knew* there was no way he would have left
that tomb alive unless he complied with Divia's wishes (obviously
he knew it too.) A second bravo for Ms. Long.
Nick: Considering all the evil that was in this episode, Nick's
genuine concern and compassion was a welcomed relief. Lacroix's
revelation of his two thousand-year-old shame and Nick's reaction
to his master's pain was especially poignant and one of the best
FK scenes between father and son ever. Ger conveyed Nick's
reaching out to Lacroix (in every sense) wonderfully: a
tentative hand on the shoulder, helping Lacroix up from the floor
after staking Divia, and the final shoulder clasp (which Lacroix
returned) at Divia's cremation. Ironically, for the last half of
the season, I have dreaded Nick's growing attachment to Lacroix.
I equated his improved relationship with his master with an
inevitable return to vampirism. But this may have been premature
as Ashes to Ashes strongly hints that Nick's growing closeness to
Lacroix may be as a *result* of his search for humanity, not in
spite of it. And, as usual, Ger brought forth all of this with
his usual excellence. A third bravo.
Vachon and Urs: The scene in the Raven with them laying on the
coach and later Urs' horror over Vachon's injuries and growing
madness hints at the rarely shown chemistry between them. I
really wish we saw more of them - especially Urs, who after
Hearts of Darkness pretty much disappeared til Ashes to Ashes.
I've always felt that there was more chemistry between Vachon and
Urs than between Vachon and Tracy, who never really "clicked" to
me as a couple.
Direction: Excellent, especially the fight scenes and, in
particular, Urs' last stand in the elevator (ironic that it was
the first and last time we see Urs vamp out).
Bad Things
Tracy: What's a review without a negative about Tracy? ;)
Her "you're evil" line in the car came out of left field and was
unnecessary. We all knew by then that this was an episode about
evil (as were Jane Doe and Francesca). Tracy's comment just hit
us over the head with it. Also her interplay with Vachon while
he was dying in her arms lacked an emotional punch somehow.
Nat and Nick: There definitely should have been more of these
two in their last scene together before Nick, essentially, goes
out to meet his death. The "I'll watch my back" line then scene
cut left a lot to be desired in the "this is the last time you'll
see me alive so let's get real" department.
One more episode to go: I'm a fan of Mystery Science Theater
3000 as well as Forever Knight and both shows are showing their
last episodes *on the same friggin' day*. Sometimes I hate
television.
But that's just my two cents worth.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:19:13 -0400
From: Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
Diane wrote"
>The only one I can think of is Fleur. And whether that was "compassionate" is
>certainly debatable....
You bet your sweet bippie it was debateable. He deprived her of the love of
her life, I don't call that compassionate. And who is he to judge that
vampirism wouldn't be good for her, after all this is before all the
angsting started and bad stuff happened.
Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Chiante Drinking Member of the Thong Throng*
*High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved*
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a......., or CousinMel@p.......
If any of the Pens mailing list people are wondering what that other stuff
is about, its a Forever Knight thang"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 00:05:47 -0400
From: Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight (about such)
I'd like to add my cries of mercy to those who post tantalizing tidbits about
Last Knight and do not tell us what actually happened in the episode!
Someone PLEASE (with appropriate spaces, etc.) post a complete synopsis!
Someone us need emotional preparation. I'm one of them. I want to know
before I die from the tension.
Thanks in advance.
Marcia Tucker
scfimarci@a.......
Dark Knightie / Unnamed / Immortal Beloved
Already in Denial / Feverishly committing fan fic and about to post!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:31:31 -0400
From: "Tammy Pond [Digest]" <nightmist@g.......>
Subject: Whammies
Apache:
> I don't remember any other "compassionate" whammies.
T do. Well, sorta. It's both. First season, the ep, is the one where
the FK crew are being put on a live "COPS" clone TV show, and the one
reporter catches Nick flying. Flashbacks to the civil war and Nick in
a medical tent. Some photographer then has managed (don't ask how,
it's YAFKI) to get LaCroix - also flying, I believe - on film.
Anyway, short story is the Enforcers get called in (normal time) and
Nick has to get rid of the video evidence and whammie the reporter to
forget about it. I consider it compassionate also, in that she was
pretty scared stiff at the time. Yes, it's also protecting the
community, I realize.
Would YOU want recurring nightmares of snarling vampires that don't
talk with teeth long enough to make a saber-tooth tiger proud? I don't
think I would...
Just my two cents... <chuckle>
(reading later posts) Oh yea, forgot about STRINGS this season...and
AVENGING ANGEL...
Bonnela:
> And he continues to endanger Tracy's life by allowing her
> to remember that vampires are real...
I think that decision is ALSO based in part upon his experience with
her - that he knows she's capable of not spilling the beans to anyone
else, regardless of how much she wants to. Between himself and Nat,
they can pretty much keep tabs on her and her reactions.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 04:01:17 -0400
From: Marian Gibbons <starbase5640@g.......>
Subject: SPOILERS:F/ AtA/ LK (long)
Dear All--
It has been a very long time since I posted here-- having nothing
good to say, I have been saying nothing, since 'negativity' is not a
proud warm/fuzzy thing to share. (And it also has not been tolerated
well here, having outlived its welcome, oh, before second season
started...)
However, I find myself with feelings that demand companionship, and
opinions that may be of some slight benefit.
Feeling One: Betrayal. How Can They Do This To Us? Fill our heads
with made-up people and make us love them and then take them away again?
Feeling Two: Relief. After all the horrible massacres of character
we've suffered (Who Are These Pod People and Why Have They Replaced
Those We Loved?), and ravished suspended disbelief, and plot black
holes, and misused ideas we did better ourselves --- but I rave.
You've heard this rant long since. At Last It's Over. They Can't
Jerk Me Around Anymore.
Feeling Three: Grief. It's Over. They're Gone and I Can't Have Them
Anymore.
Feeling Four: Anguish. My Friend Whom I Love Is Dead, and My Other
Friend Did the Deed. How Then, Can I Still Love Such A One?
Feeling Five: Exasperation. Get A Life. This is All Make-Believe.
Feeling Six: Hope. There is Someone Out There Who Understands Me. I
Can At Least Share My Confusion.
Sorry about the Capitals-- but this is not an ordinary post.
Opinion One: How Can They Do This To Us? Answer? It's just a job to them.
It's not their life, or their fantasy. Televised product is a way to
sell dog food, and tampons, and cereal, and cars. Real life stuff.
Just because Theater started out sacred (ask the ancient Greeks, or
the Medieval Catholics) and stirs us at our roots when done right,
doesn't mean s*** today, to some people. (Some people do care, like
J.M. Strazynski. He may not be perfect, but you can tell he's trying.
Or the folks who just did a superbly updated Dr. Who. Or Kenneth
Johnson who did Alien Nation.) Some people Try. Because their created
characters mean something to them.
It is my wholly unsubstantiated-by-any-proof opinion that the real
creator of the characters I love is Barney Cohen (credited with
"Story" on the original "Nick Knight" tv script, while Parriott did
the "teleplay.") I believe <Cohen's> passion formed Nick, Lacroix,
Janette, Schanke (remember him?) and the original coroner, Dr. Jack.
Because I have learned so much from these characters through the
years (how to be a creator on my own, to give birth and freedom to
ephemeral lives whose Truth Must Be Told) I respect the creative
impulse that brought them to life, and initiated their struggle.
I believe that this creative impulse has been carelessly squandered
on meaningless and degrading changes to the characters I loved.
(Natalie's dialog in "Dark Knight" was <the same> as Dr. Jack's --
but Catherine Disher created a new character for me to love. I
respect her craft in doing so, and in the acting skills of all the
cast who brought these people to life.)
I don't think that Parriott could do the things done to these
characters if he were truly their creator-- unless he's the kind of
guy who smashes his toys because someone else likes them-- or doesn't
like them, as the case may be. He hasn't respected <them> -- and I have
not respected most of the stories that have been told about these
characters since second season, and especially during third season.
<They> don't love the characters the way <I> love the characters.
That's How Can They Do This To Us.
I may be full of s*** myself, but that's my opinion.
Opinion Two: Relief. I have a "Successories" catalog at work that offers
gems of occupational enthusiasm. I always liked the one that says:
"Give your customers what they want--or your competitors will."
There are always new stories and new characters to love. (Maybe not
"Kindred, the F****"--- oops, sorry--) but there are plenty of other
purveyors of entertainment out there, clamoring for my
television-watching minutes. Maybe they won't have the same
intensity-- but they also won't be so painful to watch when they fall
down. It won't be FK-- but then, FK hasn't been FK either.
Opinion Three: "They're Gone and I Can't Have Them Anymore" is JUST
NOT TRUE.
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE FANFIC. ALWAYS. And another thing-- because all
of these characters and their situations are made up (see opinion 5)
they are ETERNAL. They exist, have always existed, will always exist,
world without end, amen. Sherlock Holmes is more real than Arthur
Conan Doyle. Tarzan would be immortal even if Edgar Rice Burroughs
hadn't written him that way. (Don't believe me. Read the series!)
Because they're just ideas, they were never incarnated, they can
never really die. And even if they're 'dead' in the stories-- so
what? They're <fantasies> -- and daydreams are full of 'em. Everyday.
The trick is this: you have to be able to make them up yourself.
Opinion Four: My Friend Whom I Love Is Dead, and My Other
Friend Did the Deed. How Then, Can I Still Love Such A One?
This one is tricky. Given the characters as presented: I can't.
Therefore: Anguish.
I always bought into the opening credits monolog: 'Now he wants to be
mortal again, to repay society for his sins. To escape from his world
of darkness, his endless, forever night.' I always wanted the hero to
win.
I've said <ever since Second Season> that Nick <couldn't> win if
Lacroix was back in the flesh. The dramatic tension of antagonist vs.
protagonist can only be solved if the hero has a <chance> to win. If
Lacroix can be returned from a fiery death, impaled on a stake, by no
more than a mere authorial 'I'm too old and powerful for that,' then
Nick can <never> overcome him and achieve his own goal.
How I <hate> to be right this way.
If there had never been an all-out struggle to the death between Nick
and Lacroix, then perhaps I might have believed the <rapprochement>
between them that was built up over the last two seasons. If there
had been a dramatic story where Lacroix's character had cause to
change, so that he would <let> Nick go, I would have gone along. But
that was never the original premise of the characters, and I never agreed
that Nick, as a character, should succumb to Lacroix's point of view.
But --as of the last episode, it seems that Nick has come back to
Lacroix. If Nick kills Natalie (and she stays dead, as it seems likely
from the postings here) -- then Nick will remain in his 'endless,
forever night' and Lacroix has won.
<Not> an acceptable solution. (See opinion #5)
This goes for Tracy 'killing' Vachon, too. I never felt strongly about
either character, but even if their 'romance' was a pale copy of
'Nick&Nat' (whether or not you like that element, Cynthia, it was
there for people to see) it's still sad to think that he had to die
at her hands. <Not> the best send off.
Opinion Five: This is All Make-Believe. Made-up people. Made-up
situations.
What one person can make up, another person can make-up different.
This isn't Real Life, where what happens, happens, whether we agree
with it or not. (But, you notice, even in Real Life the Librarians
win sometimes against the barbarians who want to burn down the library.)
If you don't like the way the story ended, make up your own.
It's not like there's a shortage of ideas. (See above 'There Will
Always be Fanfic.' Click your ruby slippers together three times and
clap for Tinkerbell...)
And why did I let these characters matter so much to me, anyway?
Well, they said something to me.
The hard part about a one-way communication like television is being
heard by the sending party. They talk to you but you can't talk back.
Well, you all know what a crock of s*** that is.
It's Time to change the face of television. Time to imagine 2-way TV,
where the wishes of the viewers mean something.
(There's a place somewhere here to debate whether a group-mind writes
better than a single artist-- or whether the group responses of
tv-viewers would create anything better than what we got on FK-- but
at least there would be a debate!)
Opinion Six: Thank you for being there. In an imperfect world, I yet
have a voice. Somebody will hear what I say.
You may not agree with it-- but I've had my chance to tell you what I
think. Just that <chance> means a whole lot.
Yeah. Warm/Fuzzies. (thank you, Jamie)
And one more thing: the whole point of rooting for Nick-- reformed
vampire, brick, ("narcissistic...", etc.--great post, by the way) was
because his urge to do good outweighed his evil past. He may have
done bad things before-- but we could forgive him because he was
<trying> to be better, and make up for the past. This series ending
in the hero's failure to achieve his goal, will not be the first
time this has happened on tv. The Immortal never found his brother,
Star Trek never got a whole 5 years, Scott Hayden never got to see his
mother; Catherine Chandler <died>! But we don't have to like it!
Personally, it's my final opinion (#7) that the entirety of second
and third seasons happened in an 'alternate universe'(tm). As there
are an infinite number of alternate universes (at least in fiction -
anybody else catch "Sliders"?) <anything> can happen. And already has
-- or hasn't. Just be careful which time-stream you get back to...
Thank you for your patience in wading through this.
Marian Gibbons
starbase5640@g.......
"They can redecorate, but they can't get rid of us." -- Ravenette
-- That wasn't redecoration. That was demolition. It got rid of me.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 05:33:39 -0400
From: Janette Z <Janette92@a.......>
Subject: Blood Knowledge (Francesca & AtA)
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but didn't Nick say in
Francesca that by sharing blood he could know everything about someone?
Wouldn't that be the same with vampires? And if so, how come Nick didn't
know about Divia? Am I completely lost?
Ravenette, Immortal Beloved,
Seducer, Cousin -- Janette92
@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:54:18 -0400
From: Catherine A Siemann <cas47@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS:F/ AtA/ LK (long)
Just a short response to Marian Gibbons' long, long post. While much of
what you say is true, Marian, particularly about the cavalier way the
show, and we, have been treated, I find myself wanting to take issue with
the "FK isn't really FK after first season" approach. (BTW, I feel very
timid doing this since Marian is one of the *most incredibly good* FK
fanfic writers ever!) As has been discussed over and over again, fans who
come to the show at different stages have different ideas about what FK is
-- third season fans have to listen over and over again to first and
second season fans complain about the very show that drew them to the list
and etc.
But to believe that Nick can *only* redeem himself by becoming mortal
again seems to me a concept that is grounded in a very black-and-white
view of reality. While I fully agree that first season is probably the
most artistically successful in many ways, the presence of LaCroix in
present time in the subsequent series added so much depth to the various
relationships that when second season was good, it was extraordinary. The
removal of Janette and Schanke diminished the interrelationships between
the characters, since triangles were reduced to binaries/parallels (this
has been discussed before, I know), a new dynamic which the Tracy/Vachon
relationship contributed. But episodes like Ashes to Ashes have uncovered
entirely new dimensions in the Nick/LaCroix dynamic that complicate it so
and add such depth that I was blown away all over again.
Nick's search for a cure has always reminded me of people I've known who
were looking for the impossible "someday" solution, as an excuse not to
try to solve their problems in the here and now. "Oh, when I lose fifty
pounds . . . " "Oh, when I'm mortal . . . " (One of the things that
made me angriest about Human Factor was the confirmation that a cure
*was* possible, which I had always preferred to be open-ended). Nick
learning that nothing in the universe is as simple as all that, that
perhaps LaCroix is not the father of all evil, and that perhaps he can
achieve some kind of salvation even while remaining a vampire, is simply .
. . amazing.
I completely agree with Marian about the possibilities that are now
opening up in front of us. One of the best things about fanfic is that
your Nick and Nat can be my Nick and Janette, that there are thousands of
possible paths that we can take with the mythos now, since nothing TPTB
can do now can preempt us. The creative energy that's going to go into
rewriting Last Knight *alone* . . . could light cities, no doubt!
Yipes. Did I just say this much?
Catherine
Raven/Immortal Beloved/M.B.D.T.K./X-Phile
cas47@c.......
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:56:24 -0400
From: Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......>
Subject: Re: Forever Knight (fwd)
The following is a conversation I've had with the Sci Fi Channel.
I asked them if they were going to edit the first and second
season episodes to put in more commericals. Here's my explaination
of my question and their response.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:43:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Dominion Feedback <feedback@s.......>
To: Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......>
Subject: Re: Forever Knight
> What I'm saying is quite often when a show is picked up to be rerun in
> syndication (or in this case on cable), additional minutes are removed
> from each episode to allow more commericals to be shown (Star Trek, MASH,
> Mission Impossible and dozens of others.)
>
> I'm asking if the SciFi channel plans to do this to Forever Knight?
Oh, right, I understand. While just about every show seen in syndication
(even recent shows, like THE SIMPSONS) has had minutes cut out to make
room for extra commercial time, I don't believe we have any plans to cut
our episodes of FK down any further. We don't have the rights to the
uncut Canadian versions (and I'm not sure we would air them if we could,
since we do need the extra commercial revenue). But the versions we plan
to air are the same ones that aired in the U.S. in first-run syndication.
I hope this clears things up.
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Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 05:57:10 -0700
From: Roxanne Piccen <CHIRMP@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: AtA - LaCroix as Daddy
*Whew* I finally caught up on my spoiler digests (though
the forkni-l ones are piling up). Only getting five hours
of sleep the last two nights probably had something to do
with it.
I've been thinking about FK, specifically LaCroix, a lot
this past week. Gee, wonder why? Giving the recent insight
into his character, I've been wondering what kind of a father
he was to Divia? Especially since I've been able to rather
easily conjure up an image of LC holding Divia as an infant
in his arms and smiling at her. (*Not* a wicked smile,
either.)
We know how he is/has been with Nick and Janette, but I'm
referring to him as a mortal father with an actual child.
Bearing in mind the historical time period, the fact that
Divia was illegitimate and a female and couldn't really be
publicly acknowledged as his, and LC was away with his army
a lot, what do you all think? If his protection of Nick is
any indication, I've got to believe none of the other kids
picked on Divia when she was still mortal. :-)
LC did tell Divia, as she flung him about the Raven, that when
they were mortal he loved her more than the gods, and I do
believe it. He also inquired about her when he returned from
battle. I think what brought this question to my mind was that
image of LC calling out, "Divia!" and holding out his arms to
her with a smile on his face. He truly expected her to run to
him, perhaps as she had done in the past, and seemed confused
or disappointed when she turned away.
Uh oh. Red alert. Mental picture coming. LC calls to Divia
and holds out his arms to her. Dozens of Cousins shout "I am
Divia!" a la the movie Spartacus, shove her aside and rush him.
LC gets this look of bewilderment, then terror, on his face as
these determined-looking people who are calling him "Uncle"
pounce. he Cousins all leap into his arms, knocking him to
the ground and begin fighting over who gets what piece of his
clothing and... Set FKFIC to ADULT topics, you say? JADFE?
Hmmm, perhaps I'll have to check those out, assuming I can
continue with just five hours of sleep a night.
Roxanne (joining her first faction - the Cleopatras)
RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work)
*********************************************************
Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 06:54:22 -0700
From: Karen Stortz <firefox4@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: ATA / LK / comments
LAST KNIGHT spoiler space. You have been warned!
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>The way the episode was originally written, Nick kills Nat by draining
>her, then LC kills Nick
>Nat actually asked Nick to kill her,
WHATTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!! Did I read that correctly? Am I hallucinating
here? NICK...KILLS...NAT?
In "A More Permanent Hell," Nat says "I want you to bring me across," &
Nick says, no way; in "Last Knight," Nat says "I want you to kill me,"
& Nick says, sure, fine, haven't done it in a hundred years because I'm
trying to redeem my poor, damned soul, but for you, hey, no problem?
GIMME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!
>still a sucky story for the final episode, imo.
That's about the kindest way of saying it that I can think of. I can
think of many other ways to describe it, most of which aren't printable
on the list.
It's because of the fans that this show even GOT a last season and
became stripable. And how have the producers repaid that favor? They
get rid of Janette, then bring her back as a HUMAN, kill off Schanke,
bring in Tracy, Vachon, and Urs, then kill Vachon & Urs once the
characters have been developed & become watchable, make Nick CHUMMY
with LaCroix, and now this. I guess I shouldn't be surprised if they
DO betray the Nick/Nat relationship; they've betrayed everything else
the fans loved about the show.
Karen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:14:27 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: AtA - LaCroix as Daddy
Roxanne wrote:
>I've been wondering what kind of a father he was to Divia? ... what do you
>all think? ... LC did tell Divia, as she flung him about the Raven, that
>when they were mortal he loved her more than the gods, and I do believe it.
>....that image of LC calling out, "Divia!" and holding out his arms....
I agree with you. I don't know what the specifics of the relationship were,
but I think he loved her, and I think she knew it. I think he spent at
least some time with her when he wasn't away in battle.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
The Unnamed Faction
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:15:06 -0700
From: Karen Stortz <firefox4@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS:F/ AtA/ LK (long)
Marian,
A beautiful post. Thank you.
I agree with almost everything you said, except for one small point.
I don't think Parriott and Cohen are the show's only creative forces.
The Story Editor usually has a vast inflence on the direction of a
series. After all, s/he is the person who accepts or rejects the
scripts. One of the earliest Story Editors was Peter Mitchell, and it
was during the time he held that position that the series produced
nearly half of the truly outstanding eps ever made: "For I Have
Sinned," "Last Act," "False Witness," and "Cherry Blossoms." He wrote
still another of my favorite eps, "Hunters," but he only appears to
have been around for the first half of the first season. Michael
Sadowski has been a Story Editor for most of the rest of the time since
then, but based on his writing, his work strikes me as uneven. Some of
his work is brilliant (it was he who first created the Enforcers and
who wrote the only second-season ep on my outstanding list, "The Fix")
but some is equally awful, and it's been some of his scripts that have
been responsible for some of the worst character and story arc
continuity gaffes.
Also, from what I've heard on the grapevine, Parriott stayed clear of
the creative process in the first season, leaving most of the work to
Jon Slan, Richard Borchiver, Nicholas J. Gray (who also directed, and I
wish he had more often), Naomi Janzen, et al. I think it's impossible
for us, on the outside of it, to say for whom it was just a job and for
whom the characters and story meant something. The thust of your
argument is totally correct, however: the fact that key people with a
great deal of influence saw it as just another job is pretty evident
from the results.
You are also correct in noting that LaCroix's return in the present
was the beginning of the end, at least in part. (Like you, I accepted
the premise repeated in the opening narration every week.) Don't get
me wrong, I adore Nigel's work, but this doesn't alter the fact that
LaCroix just doesn't belong alive in the present. Before then, the
show was balanced: Natalie reflected Nick's desire to do good and was
his pull towards humanity, Janette reflected the temptations and
desires of his darker side and was the pull on his vampire urgings,
LaCroix represented the dark power he wanted to keep in his past,
Schanke represented the mundane, sometimes irritating present with its
trappings of job and family and humor and freindship and just plain
//living// that Nick so desperately (at one time, at least) wanted for
himself. LaCroix's return to the present had him taking over Janette's
function (which has fully happened this season), but that doesn't work.
LaCroix is Nick's master; Janette was Nick's equal, therefore, the
balance was destroyed.
Karen
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