File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 27 TOPICS: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT (3) Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes, Francesca Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings (2) Ashes To Ashes(religion) SPOILER: AtA (blinks etc.) Ashes to Ashes: LC and URSE???!! SPOILER: AtA SPOILER: Last Knight - Silly question (2) Last Knight--Peaches? SPOILER: Last Knight questions (5) Fran, AtA, whammies (2) Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... (3) last night Peaches/Divia's Resurrection (2) SPOILER: Last Knight Divia's and Nick's hair SPOILER: Ashes--dialogue; song Vacancy, and not a moment too soon Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:22:17 +0500 From: John Folden <jtfolden@e.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT > From: "Carol A. Morrison" <morrison@a.......> > > John Folden asked-- > > >In the original spoiler I saw, it had Nick taking too much blood from Nat, and > > then actually going back for more to finish her off rather than bringing > > her accross. > >Someone else said that later it was edited and Nick didn't go back for the > > second drink....????? Did he? > > S > > P > > O > > I > > L > > E > > R > > > > S > > P > > A > > C > > E > > > > No, Nick doesn't go back for a second drink. He leans down and kisses > Natalie on her right check and tells LaCroix "I can't condemn her to this > darkness." > Would you believe I just got another reply from someone else who claims to have seen the episode and states that he DID go back for the second drink???? Now, I'm really confused....Not that I doubt you, but are you sure all he did was kiss her? > Tracy's last words to Nick -- "You...could have trusted me." I know where this comes in....(should be a good scene!) > Nick's last words to Natalie -- "I won't leave you. Whatever happens, we'll > be together." > Natalie's last word to Nick -- "Forever." Ok, mind if I ask where these come in at??? Especially, Nat's last words... was that before, after, or during the "drink"? Unlike some lucky(or unlucky people) I won't get to see this episode until 3am next Saturday.... :( > Lacroix's last words to Nicholas -- "Damn you, Nicholas." I believe this is at the very end of the show during a very, ahem, "pointed" moment? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:39:43 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes, Francesca >> She says "Javier..." *really badly* and it sounds like "I'm >>here.." > > That's odd. I put my TV on closed caption to try and figure it >out, and THAT said that she said "I love you." I had the same problem. I heard her say "I'm here", but the closed captioning said "I love you." Some people told me they heard what she said as "I love you." I think we can all agree that she mumbled, and this was a bad time for it. >I guess we'll have to see a script to figure out where 'I love you' >came from. I'm wondering if it isn't supposed to go where "Wish me >luck" is now -- a smart script change Fwiw, the script isn't much help. The script has Vachon's "Wish me luck" but it doesn't have Tracy saying anything at that particular moment. Of course, the script also has her killing him, rather than him impaling himself on the stake. On a lighter note, since folks can certainly use one about now, here's the cut scene from Francesca where Tracy reams Nick: Tracy: (mid-rant) Look, I'm not saying you didn't get the job done. You did. But how many times have you chewed me out for going off on a hunch by myself without calling backup? (off his resigned look) You could have been killed. Nick: (covering a smile) You're right. I'm sorry. Tracy: So you'll call me next time? Nick: Scout's honor. Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:44:34 -0600 From: Deb Rowland <drowland@a.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings >I was very curious when I saw Divia smoking without her body actually >going up in ashes. Any thoughts? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:44:36 -0600 From: Deb Rowland <drowland@a.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings >I was very curious when I saw Divia smoking without her body actually >going up in ashes. Any thoughts? > I noticed the smoke curling up around her too and wondered since Vachon certainly didn't self-combust. However, she rose from the sarcophagus with a burst of intense light and some type of special effects (almost stright from Raiders of the Lost Ark) so I guess she came back and left again in a blaze of glory. (Sorry, I couldn't help it after one day of glorious spring, it's cold and raining again. Some times you have to make your own sunshine. - Maybe Nick should have tried!) Deb Knightie with strong Cousinly urges ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:45:41 -0400 From: Michelle Mark <Raindance2@a.......> Subject: Ashes To Ashes(religion) Someone wrote: >Question that occurred to me as soon as LaCroix said he would pray for >Divia: To whom will he pray? Jupiter or Christ? Or maybe Mithras, the >sun god popular with 1st-century soldiers? Now that would be a nice irony. I personally don't think that LC would pray to any of these. Yes, he was a Roman but that dosen't mean anything. We have no evidence that shows that LC as a mortal had any religious convictions. There have only been a few instances where LC has mentioned god. In C&C "If there is a god...must it be sane??" And in AMPH he discusses with Nick the possibility of a higher power and wonders "what kind of god would create such torture?" Then in SOB he claims "God and the devil are a human contrivance...". and later as Nick is writhing tells him there is "god" in him. Hmmm.. sounds like LC is a little confused. (I won't dredge up that whole agnostic/athiest/evil discussion from my Nietzsche posts again, (which I did get flamed for BTW), but I think it applies here) I think that deep down LC believes there is a greater *force* out there, a super natural power, but I don't think it has anything to do with religion. A "god" dosen't have to have a name. Sometimes a prayer is just a sentiment and in this case maybe a catharsis. LC had a lot of emotions to deal with in that scene. A prayer need not be directed at anyone or anything in particular. Maybe he just whispered a few heartfelt words as Divia's ashes were swept away by the wind. That's the way I see it. But then I *am* suffering from severe sleep deprivation from Syndicon, so if this makes no sense, have pity!! Cousin Michelle/too tired for a sig today ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:03:09 -0400 From: Allison Percy <percy91@w.......> Subject: SPOILER: AtA (blinks etc.) Ashes to Ashes was a truly awesome episode. Fantastic premise, wonderful writing, excellent direction, beautiful lighting, great music (hey, "The Hunger" is one of my favorite tracks on the FK CD!) and of course superb acting by all. I was especially impressed by Kathryn Long and (of course) Nigel, who was able to try out some brand new facial expressions for Lacroix. Worry? Unease? Horror and disgust? Fear? Heartbroken sadness? It's all there... so much more range to Lacroix than we saw in the first season. In some ways I liked the relative simplicity of the relationship between Nick & Lacroix in the first and parts of the second season, but I am also fascinated by how complex this relationship has become as the series has progressed. AtA added a whole new layer of complexity. I was fascinated by what it was that caused Lacroix to destroy Divia the first time (temporarily, as it turned out). I had read a couple of very vague spoilers about the episode, so I knew that at some point Lacroix had apparently killed Divia, but I had supposed that he had done it as part of a power play. Lacroix doesn't like others to control him, so I assumed that he had killed Divia when she tried to control him. The explanation in the episode is so much more interesting, and says so much more about who Lacroix really is, where he draws the line on evil, and how he defines love. Wow. A couple of silly how-did-they-film-this remarks: (a) Someone asked if the head-in-a-box at the Raven *blinked*. I checked the episode using frame-by-frame advance, and the head doesn't blink, but the eyes definitely twitched just a teeny bit. Nigel said at Syndicon that it was in fact the actor's head (he was crouched under the counter and they had put a hole where there is normally a sink on the Raven's bar). So you can imagine how difficult it would be to keep from at least twitching your eyes if you are crouched under a counter with your head stuck up into a cardboard box when someone pulls off some tissue paper and the bright lights and cameras hit you. Ron Obadia (Hamid Karam) actually did a pretty darn good job of looking mostly dead. <g> I wonder how hard it was for them to find an actor in Toronto who could speak Arabic? And is that why we never saw Hamid's brother Hashim, who was at the other end of the radio? Couldn't they find someone else to play Hashim, forcing them to have Rob Obadia read Hashim's lines as well (using a different voice, of course, so he wouldn't sound the same). This is all silly speculation, of course, but I did notice that no one was in the credits for the voice of Hamid's brother Hashim! (b) Apparently (once again interpreting what Nigel said at Syndicon) they filmed the scenes where the vamps appear to be floating around (Lacroix in the Raven, Lacroix and Divia in the tomb in the flashback) by putting the actor on a trolley (like the ones mechanics use to work underneath cars) and having a crew person push him around by the feet. But Nigel said they had a hard time getting the trolley to go straight, so he ended up careening around the Raven. That may be the real reason for that smile on Lacroix's face just before he goes into his office and finds Vachon and Urs asleep on his couch. <g> (c) I really, really wish I could remember what Nigel said about "Hair Care Tips of Lacroix," because he explained what it was the hair dressers put in his hair to get it to stand up just right. I think it was some sort of spray glaze. The reason why I can't remember is that he was *looking* at me while he said it and my brain kind of froze up for a while. Ack! -- Allison (percy91@w.......) Tormented Knightie and Chief Bunny of the McGregors -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:36:26 -0400 From: Michelle Mark <Raindance2@a.......> Subject: Ashes to Ashes: LC and URSE???!! Eric wrote: <<Was it just me, or did anyone else think there was anything going on between Urs and LaCroix? >> Interesting. Hadn't thought of that. I would hope that LC had something going with someone, even though we regretfully didn't get to see it ;) If not, he is in serious need of ...ahem. wrong list. But I guess that's what fanfic is for. Seriously though, I can't picture him with Urse, unless it was a quickie or something. I think that if LC had a relationship with anyone it would have to be someone with a reasonable amount of intelligence. Someone to stimulate him intellectually as well as physically. Nothing against Urse but she was about as intellectually stimualting as an eggplant. LC can do better. Much, much, better. Cousin Michelle ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:44:46 EDT From: Margie Gillis <MGILLIS@c.......> Subject: SPOILER: AtA My apologies in advance if any of this has been said already, but I've just subscribed to this list because I *had* to talk about this episode, at least a little. It literally had me on the edge of my seat for the whole hour... I noticed a couple of posts about the erotic reading of Nick & LC's interaction--yeah, I saw that too. No matter how you read it, though, it was nice to see Nick supporting him, especially with the rest of the Community abandoning LC. Do you think Nick is starting to understand LC's frustration about Nick's guilt trip? Here Nick has been angsting for centuries about killing strangers (well, mostly strangers), while LaCroix has been dealing with being a filicide and matricide all in one blow...And if I remember right, LaCroix was just a 20-year-old fledgling at the time. LOTS more to say, but no time to say it...Back to lurking. Margie mgillis@d....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:49:16 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight - Silly question The first line in Last Knight, spoken by LaCroix, is: "Life is like a ripe peach." Did they have peaches in Rome back in the first century? I know Italy is one of the largest exporters of peaches today, but did they have them in Lucius the General's time? Laurie, who still thinks it an odd metaphor for a vampire to use. Has LaCroix been missing peaches for 2,000 years? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:01:47 EDT From: Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......> Subject: Last Knight--Peaches? "life is like a ripe peach" sounds goofy to me. Sounds like "Life is like a box of chocolates..." Forrest Gump. We could call Lacroix Forest Grump. (-; Tanya ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:06:19 -0500 From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......> Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight questions OK, I said I wasn't going to read the spoilers, but I can resist anything but temptation, right? For those of you who've seen it, I have a few questions: 1) How many people are "dead" (in TPTB's mind anyway) at the end? 2) How many can be resurrected by us, keeping in mind that Alexandra had been dead for hours when LaCroix brought her across and that LaCroix was staked in a fire and seemingly burned to ashes and he came back? Apprehensively, Sarah *definite* Cleopatra welshkin@d....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:08:58 -0700 From: Bonnela <callalily@l.......> Subject: Fran, AtA, whammies At the end of 'Francesca' we are lead to believe that Nick hypnotized the psychologist (Lisa Callick), right? But then Tracy walks into her office and starts talking about the possibility that vampires might be real -- the psychologist pulls that face and *I* took it to mean that she suddenly remembered what really happened, remembered seeing Nick vamped out. If this is the case, how many other instances have we seen of people being whammied, only to have something happen later and all of the memories come back. Does this happen with Nat after BMV? Bonnie <callalily@l.......> "What?" Ultra-Cool Vaquero Web Page --> http://users.lanminds.com/~callalily ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:20:00 -0400 From: Michelle Mark <Raindance2@a.......> Subject: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... ...that is the question. Someone posted in regard to the Tracy/Vachon/Nick thing: >Erasing the memory: Personally that would be a blessing. I totally disagree that erasing Tracy's memories of Vachon would be the best thing for her. I realize different people feel differently about this based on their own experience and I certainly am not saying they're wrong. But...how can a person grow without experiencing life, the good and the bad? Isn't pain a part of life? I firmly believe the adage "what dosen't kill you makes you stronger." In my own experience, if I had somehow miraculously forgotten all the BS I've been through, I would be half the person I am today. Sometimes life sucks! Deal with it! Yes, Tracy is going to have painful memories but hopefully she will use them to become a better person. Maybe she won't. Maybe she'll wallow in self-pity for the rest of her life. We see it on talk shows everyday. The point is,(yes, I do have one!) it should be *her* decision. Nick had no right to even consider making her forget. It's a cop out. And yes, it pissed me off when Spock did it to Kirk! Ok-I think that's my limit for the day! There is just so much to say about this ep!! Cousin Michelle ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:50:02 -0400 From: "Carol A. Morrison" <morrison@a.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT S P O I L E R S P A C E John Folden wrote-- >Would you believe I just got another reply from someone else who claims >to have seen the episode and states that he DID go back for the second drink???? >Now, I'm really confused....Not that I doubt you, but are you sure all he >did was kiss her? > Well I'll put it to you this way. Nick bites Natalie on the left side and when she is lying on the floor her head is turned to the left. Nick leans down over her right side. This is about the time he tells LaCroix that he can't condemn her to this darkness (Kind of hard to drink and talk at the same time). They pull away and you see him kissing her on her right cheek. Her head is still turned the same way to the left and there are no bite marks on the right side of her neck. >Ok, mind if I ask where these come in at??? Especially, Nat's last words... >was that before, after, or during the "drink"? Essentially right before the "drink." >> Lacroix's last words to Nicholas -- "Damn you, Nicholas." > >I believe this is at the very end of the show during a very, ahem, "pointed" >moment? > Right ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:49:47 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight questions At 03:06 PM 5/14/96 -0500, you wrote: >1) How many people are "dead" (in TPTB's mind anyway) at the end? One definitely and two possibly.....(because of the ambiguous ending) > >2) How many can be resurrected by us, keeping in mind that Alexandra had been dead for hours when LaCroix brought her across and that LaCroix was >staked in a fire and seemingly burned to ashes and he came back? > Two, if they are indeed dead (which we're not sure of). Am I right? Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:08:23 -0400 From: "Carol A. Morrison" <morrison@a.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight questions S P O I L E R S P A C E At 03:06 PM 5/14/96 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I said I wasn't going to read the spoilers, but I can resist anything >but temptation, right? > >For those of you who've seen it, I have a few questions: > >1) How many people are "dead" (in TPTB's mind anyway) at the end? > >2) How many can be resurrected by us, keeping in mind that Alexandra had >been dead for hours when LaCroix brought her across and that LaCroix was >staked in a fire and seemingly burned to ashes and he came back? > >Apprehensively, > >Sarah >*definite* Cleopatra >welshkin@d....... > imho....the only one that can't be resurrected is Tracy. Unless......this whole thing was one of Nick's nighmares which I really believe it was!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:51:53 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: Fran, AtA, whammies At 01:08 PM 5/14/96 -0700, you wrote: >-- the psychologist pulls that face and *I* took it to mean that she suddenly remembered what really happened, remembered seeing Nick vamped out. > I don't agree that's what her face was supposed to say....I just don't think she wanted to deal with anything that had to do with Frank's case anymore. After all, she did remember up to being kidnapped by him...that can't be a good memory, remembering how horrified she was when she saw him at her door. Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:58:24 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... At 04:20 PM 5/14/96 -0400, you wrote: There is plenty of pain in life to learn from. Something that extraordinary is not something she can learn from really--except don't hold up a stake near a vampire who wants to kill himself--it was not a learning experience of any kind. She's going to deal with all kinds of loss, losing the memory of THAT particular loss is not going to make her less a person. I certainly am not any stronger from the death of my friend. I have lost plenty of friends and family to learn how to cope with death and get my learning experiences. Losing the memory of a really unpleasant one would not change me life except for the better. And, this is how I see Tracy's memory loss. I truly believe the fact that Nick cares enough to want to spare her any unnecessary horror is very sweet....perhaps I do agree with the fact that perhaps just going ahead and making the decision for her is kind of presumptuous, but his heart is definitely in the right place. Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:08:10 -0700 From: Elizabeth Mosler <emosler@l.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight questions >At 03:06 PM 5/14/96 -0500, you wrote: > >>1) How many people are "dead" (in TPTB's mind anyway) at the end? >>One definitely and two possibly.....(because of the ambiguous ending) >> Me: Okay, one maybe dead is Nat. Who is number two? elizabeth m. <emosler@l.......> Personal Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~emosler/rose.html Work Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~emosler/binding.html. *Jody to Perry the Vampire dog: "Good boy!" Woofpacker forever!* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:14:56 +0200 From: katrinka <STUKENDALCA@m.......> Subject: last night if anyones seen last knight can you e-mail off list and tell me some real details, not just little hints?? oh please?????? I'm going on vacation starting on friday to a place that doesn't have tv, and I have to find out what happened!!!!! i can't wait a two weeks to find out what really happens in last knight or I'll go mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! help me, please help me, and I don't care if it gives away the details, just help me katrinka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:44:36 -0400 From: Nancy McCaskey <mccaskn@p.......> Subject: Peaches/Divia's Resurrection > > Did they have peaches in Rome back in the first century? I know Italy > is one of the largest exporters of peaches today, but did they have > them in Lucius the General's time? Yes, they did. Apicius contains a recipe for peaches, and one of my SCA sources states that peaches were "introduced to Europe over two thousand years ago. 'Perseoc' in Anglo-Saxon." E-mail me if you need the source and author. On an unrelated note, I have a theory about how Divia managed to return after being decapitated. We've already seen that vamps can reattach a severed part (re Vachon's hand in BB). Suppose Lacroix placed her in the sarcophagus "properly," with her head lined up where it's supposed to be? It would definitely be easier to regenerate that way... Fanfic, anyone? :) ================================================================== Nancy McCaskey mccaskn@p....... ================================================================== Is the Black Buddah responsible for the Water Cooler Curse? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:25:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... Post removed by request ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:25:06 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Last Knight questions > >S > >P > >O > >I > >L > >E > >R > > > >S > >P > >A > >C > >>For those of you who've seen it, I have a few questions: >> >>1) How many people are "dead" (in TPTB's mind anyway) at the end? From this episode? Two or three; it's unclear. >>2) How many can be resurrected by us, keeping in mind that Alexandra >>had been dead for hours when LaCroix brought her across and that >>LaCroix was staked in a fire and seemingly burned to ashes and he >>came back? All of them. As usual. They can be resurrected by us or by TPTB, should they be so inclined. Of course, they can't necessarily be resurrected as *humans*; they may have to be resurrected as vampires. :-) Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:45:10 -0500 From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......> Subject: Re: Peaches/Divia's Resurrection Can people please be careful about posting spoilers about Last Night in subject lines? Some of us are trying to avoid being spoiled. Thank you. The word Spoiler(s) and the episode title is sufficient. --Sandra Gray, forever Knightie --tmp_harkins@d....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:55:35 +0000 From: Lisa Wolters <redjasper@e.......> Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight * * * * * * * * So I've read the spoilers from those of you who've already seen "Last Knight," and have formed my very own Cheesy Rationalization(tm) with which I plan to live from now 'til Saturday, when I see the ep, and then for the rest of my life. RULE #1: Nick did not let Natalie die or kill her. Nat's alive. RULE #2: When in doubt, see Rule #1. There. I feel much better now. And it's the only way I can bear to watch "LK" much less remain emotionally involved with FK. To think otherwise is to think that TPTB are being deliberately malicious, callous, reprehensible, unfeeling, unthinking, cold, um.... <reaching for thesaurus, looking up synonyms for "evil"> monstrous, corrupt, foul, depraved, nefarious... you get the idea. Thinking that Nat died would also make me think that TPTB had not a hint of a clue about what the show, or the character of Nick Knight, is about anymore. That would not only make me very, very sad, it would make me very, very angry and bitter toward the show, which has given me so much. I can't accept even the possibility of this final blow to the series and its fans. Lisa W. * redjasper@e....... ...trying to hum and think happy thoughts... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:55:24 -0400 From: Diane Shea <KerrRaven@a.......> Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight - Silly question Laurie asked about LaCroix's statement of; >>"Life is like a ripe peach." Did they have peaches in Rome back in the first century? I know Italy is one of the largest exporters of peaches today, but did they have them in Lucius the General's time?<< If this has been answered 10 times already sorry, I live in digest-land. :) At the moment I'm looking at a picture of "Peaches and a Glass Jar" in my art history book. It's part of a wall painting from Herculaneum (a neighbor city to Pompeii) circa 50 A.D. These peaches are green, but they are peaches. >>Laurie, who still thinks it an odd metaphor for a vampire to use. Has LaCroix been missing peaches for 2,000 years?<< Well let's hope there's some reason for them to use lines like this! --Cousin Diane Eternal Seducer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:00:37 -0700 From: Sandra Chew <sandra@s.......> Subject: Divia's and Nick's hair Hi! I just finished watching AtA again, and is it just me, or does Divia's hairstyle look like Nick's--espcially in the last scene when Divia is talking to LC? They both seem to have dry ends, with similar combed back styles... Sandra ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:02:36 -0700 From: Idalia Kakesako <idaliak@i.......> Subject: SPOILER: Ashes--dialogue; song Cousin Diane, the Eternal Seducer, wrote: >Just be glad Nick didn't hug him and say "I'm here for you man!" Thanks, Diane. Now I'm having visions of Nick as that guy from those beer commercials: "I love you, man," Nick says, teary-eyed, trying to steal LaCroix's last bottle of blood. Karen/Ceirdwin wrote: >Does anyone know what that song was that was playing in the Raven? Could you possibly be referring to "The Hunger" which appears on Fred Mollin's FK Soundtrack? I had the most difficult time concentrating on LaCroix's and Nick's very important dialogue in the Raven because I was amazed that I owned the music that was playing in the background. Idalia Kakesako <idaliak@i.......> Light Cousin with NatPack sympathies "Sorry, LaCroix, but your eyebrows hypnotized me." --Nick via Wicked Cousin Tippi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:50:01 -0400 From: Karen Kasting <KatrynK@a.......> Subject: Vacancy, and not a moment too soon Our fantasies tell us a great deal about ourselves. One is free to fantasize about whatever one chooses, however, keeping in mind the difference between the real and the imagined is critical. One of the women I brought across early in the 3rd season thought Vacant was easy on the eyes. I told her to keep watching, and the more she knew about him, the less there would be to like. This happened; like me, she writes fiction and is aware of how characters work and are worked upon us. She realized she was making up Vacant's character in order to make him tolerable; he was very much a reprehensible creep, based on the information given. Remember, Vacant's the one who waxed nostalagic about the good old days of easy rape (talk to a rape survivor if you find the notion of rape at all romantic or attractive), who ran away from a vow for *hundreds* of years, and who apparently had *no* regrets about all the killing he had done. Consider that after Divia attacked him, Vacant crawled home and commited suicide; Nick pulled himself together after Divia's attack--he must have been in the same kind of pain--and went to *save* LaCroix. Keep the on-screen Vacant sorted out from the *imagined* Vacant of fanfic. Now, if your idea of a Great Guy is a remorseless rapist and murderer who cannot keep a promise to a (supposedly holy) woman for 24 hours, that is your choice. My tastes in friends, lovers and hero(ines) are much more orthodox--I have expectations of honor, decency and courage, and I just cannot waste time or myself on decorative types who might look nice out on the lawn but who are not to be relied upon or trusted. Karen Kasting KatrynK@a....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:58:16 GMT From: Karen Parker <horcgal@u.......> Subject: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff Ok, I'm sorry I got my wires crossed and thought Apache was talking about being able to post after 9 p.m. on the spoiler list when it was actually the V-loop. I keep reading posts about why LaCroix would whack Divia just for coming on to him. I personally don't think that was the only reason why he gave her a permanent hair cut. They were, I assume, buried inside that tomb thingy after Pompeii was covered in ashes from the volcano...(sorry if thats not exactly right, my history stinks) Anyway, they are trapped for years waiting to be dug out of the ashes with only each other for company. Now Divia seems like quite a *itch long before she was "scorned" by LC. I think I would whack her too after 20 years in the same room! With this "kid" telling a "general" what to do, how to do it, and that he should be giving her his undying gratitude for saving his life. And all the while saying "I didnt like "my" master telling me what to do so I killed him" Well, seems like you're doing the same thing to LC honey! I "really" need to see those first/sec. season eps. I feel like I'm missing so much when it comes to the flashbacks!! I, being a person who can easily create my own story to fill in the gaps, find myself lost when reading posts about "brothels" and "illegitimate children" but thanx to all of you who have e-mailed and posted letting me know all the cool stuff I've missed. Ok, I'll stop rambling now........ Ceirdwin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:01:21 +0500 From: John Folden <jtfolden@e.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT > From: "Carol A. Morrison" <morrison@a.......> > > S > > P > > O > > I > > L > > E > > R > > S > > P > > A > > C > > E > > > > John Folden wrote-- > > >Would you believe I just got another reply from someone else who claims > >to have seen the episode and states that he DID go back for the second drink???? > >Now, I'm really confused....Not that I doubt you, but are you sure all he > >did was kiss her? > > > > Well I'll put it to you this way. Nick bites Natalie on the left side and > when she is lying on the floor her head is turned to the left. Nick leans > down over her right side. This is about the time he tells LaCroix that he > can't condemn her to this darkness (Kind of hard to drink and talk at the > same time). They pull away and you see him kissing her on her right cheek. > Her head is still turned the same way to the left and there are no bite > marks on the right side of her neck. OK, that seems pretty clear to me, then...... It's not a good ending by a long shot but at least they didn't add insult to injury by having him actually do it to her twice. I still think she should have rolled credits just after Nat told him to make love to her.... John =========================================================================
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