FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 22
May 12-May 13, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 22
TOPICS:
Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- "Embers" (2)
Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes (2)
Spoiler: Ashes To Ashes
Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes (4)
Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious
Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes -- LaCroix
SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes (7)
Daylight
Spoiler: Quick AtA question
spoiler: ashes to ashes, amph, timing
Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes (long)
Spoiler: Ashes to ashes (what else?)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:19:43 +0000
From: "Laura W. Petix" <lpetix@d.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- "Embers"
> >Sphinx Laura (the LaCroix/Nick *slash* faction ;-)
> So is the Sphinx faction the same thing as the Unnamed Faction, or is it a
> splinter group? I thought the Sphinx was the *symbol* for the Unnamed
> faction.
I have absolutely no idea... I just *really* like the sound of
being a "Sphinx" and I'm not a joiner, so I'd hate to be a member of
an actual faction with other members. ;-) I never quite understood
whether the Unnamed faction consists merely of people who like LC
and Nick together, or those who like LC and Nick *together*. Just
friends, "Or maybe more..."
Clearly I'm still giddy from making too many Divia waves.
> >(Can I start a LaCroix/Divia faction, or is that just too sick??)
> Well, yes, it's sick, but who cares? ;) Do it anyway. I think it should be
> called "Embers" in honor of Diane Shea's fic by the same name. She posted a
> story a couple weeks ago that almost parallels Divia's seduction scene in AtA.
Splendid. I am not on the fiction list any more, so I shall have to
track it down. Actually, I was very disappointed with Lucius. He
acted so... *Nick* like! I'd at least expect him to *think* about
it, rather than acting *so* implusively and irrationally. After all,
it looked as if they were getting on very well together for those 20
years. Wasn't that an awfully extreme reaction? (It reminded me of
Nick's reaction to LaCroix in my sphinxian story of a year and a half ago,
"Blood Is Thicker Than Water.") The LaCroix I *used to know* wasn't
a squeamish, righteous brick. He was devious, twisted and depraved.
A lot more like his *mother* than his *son*.
Sphinx Laura ;-)
lpetix@d.......
Ashes to Ashes: http://www.dpcc.com/dpcc/assoc/lpetix/waves/
Lucard's Home Page: http://www.dpcc.com/dpcc/assoc/lpetix/lucard/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:32:13 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes
Okay, now for a few nit-picks.
Anyone else notice the stereo in Nick's loft was OFF part of the time during
the Nightcrawler's monologue. Look over his shoulder at the red lighted
switches, they turn red when he turns the stereo on, they remain illumined as
we watch over his shoulder, then the next view, they are dark, then they are
lighted again, then he turns the stereo off and they go out.
Finally Nick wears a shirt unbuttoned at the collar for almost an entire ep.
Hey, DOOTTTIIII!!!!
The cameo LaCroix held in AMPH had a clip on the back, the one in AtA doesn't
as far as I can tell. So, perhaps it is a different one after all.
Does anyone ever remember the art table in the loft being located beneath the
staircase? This is a new position for it for me. Neat though.
During the questioning of LaCroix, wouldn't the conversation be monitored in
the room behind the two way mirror? It has always been that way before in the
96th precinct. The remarks between LaCroix and Nick after Tracy and Reese
leave the room seemed out of place in that particular spot. Still, perhaps
with their vamp senses they knew they were not being overheard.
Last, what was the source of the light eminating from the sarcophagus in the
tomb? What portion of vampiric lore would generate such a light? Does anyone
know?
Okay, enough for now.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 19:46:28 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- "Embers"
>I have absolutely no idea... I just *really* like the sound of
>being a "Sphinx" and I'm not a joiner, so I'd hate to be a member of
>an actual faction with other members. ;-)
Ah, okay. That explains it for me. :)
>I never quite understood
>whether the Unnamed faction consists merely of people who like LC
>and Nick together, or those who like LC and Nick *together*. Just
>friends, "Or maybe more..."
I think it consists of both. It's a couples faction. Immortal Beloveds,
Nick&Natpackers, Seducers, Unnamed Faction -- all couples factions. But I
think with the Unnamed Faction you have some people who just like the idea
of them being a together, and then there are some people who like the idea
of them being, as you say, *together*. I'm in both camps. ;)
>Clearly I'm still giddy from making too many Divia waves.
That's okay. I'm still giddy from watching Ashes!
>Splendid. I am not on the fiction list any more, so I shall have to
>track it down.
I'll tell the author you're looking for her.
>Actually, I was very disappointed with Lucius. He
>acted so... *Nick* like!
Normally, yes, I'd agree. I like my Uncle *wicked*, dammit! But I'm in a
hormonal cycle right now and angst suits me just fine. :)
>I'd at least expect him to *think* about
>it, rather than acting *so* implusively and irrationally.
I'll agree with you there. If this ep had been 2 hours long, I think we
would've seen him considering it. I think he just wasn't used to being the
submissive one. She was coming on pretty strong.
>After all,
>it looked as if they were getting on very well together for those 20
>years. Wasn't that an awfully extreme reaction?
Yes, it was. I mean, chopping off someone's head just for making a pass at
you. But it's like he said, he couldn't stand to look upon the evil in her.
Even though he DID feel guilty about it. "What kind of a man would kill his
own daughter?"
>Nick's reaction to LaCroix in my sphinxian story of a year and a half ago,
>"Blood Is Thicker Than Water.") The LaCroix I *used to know* wasn't
>a squeamish, righteous brick. He was devious, twisted and depraved.
>A lot more like his *mother* than his *son*.
I *am* hoping that we'll get the less altruistic, more selfish, LC back
before LK airs. I want my Wicked Uncle baaaack!
Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction. Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:57:11 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Ashes To Ashes
>1) The jail scene was hilarious, I nearly died laughing, you have all these
>"big, bad criminals" cowering in the corner away from LC, who is simply
>standing on the far side of the cell, indulging the cops.....
I'm glad someone else noticed that too. It was such a tiny moment,
do you think it was scripted or just ad-libbed.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 17:28:28 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
Carrie wrote:
:I don't get the scene in the car when Tracy pronounces her understanding of
:the 'evil' in Vachon. Where did that come from?
I got the feeling she was just trying to strike out at him, to get him to do
*something* with their relationship. (It seemed like a very immature thing
to do. Something a 14 year old might do, not an adult. But then, she
frequently says things that make me feel that way bout her.)
On another AtA topic: why did Nick survive. Sherri and I were talking about
it and Sherri thought that maybe it was those who enjoy their vampirehood or
are evil who were most affected by Divia's evil. Of course, I also liked the
possibility someone else mentioned about the sun painting helping Nick.
Maybe it was a combination of the two, combined with Nick's age that helped
him pull through.
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 17:19:32 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious
Bonnie write about "Nick the Brick":
:I am so mad at this guy! How dare he take away Tracy's memory of Vachon's
:death -- has this guy never heard of closure?
He didn't suggest making her think that Vachon just moved on. He suggested
making her think they had just been buddy type friends without more intense
feelings.
:And yet, *the Brick* allows her to remember the existance of vampires.
When Nick overheard her talking to the dead Vachon, I got the feeling that
she was saying that Vachon's "opening her eyes" (to vampires and other
things which had hitherto been considered fantasy only) was what *she*
treasured most about their relationship. Nick wanted to let her have that.
(Although I do wonder how it's going to go with the enforcers, unless Nick
and LC are now going to take responsibility for her).
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:06:08 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes -- LaCroix
Sarah wrote:
>This episode has made me go back and re-evaluate *everything* I've ever
>seen on FK. I love it. Why couldn't it all have been like this?
Let us hope that the authors of the upcoming novels take the cue, learn a
little about continuity and begin to view the totality of the series in the
light of some of these new revelations. The results can be nothing but
wonderful, IMHO.
Looking forward to fiction, fan or otherwise.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:06:12 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
Apache wrote:
> This also plays into the metaphysical origin of vampirism -- in
>fact, I thought Bedard and Lalonde were hinting at a nearly Biblical
>origin for the evil in this one: Divia's master was "one of the first" and
>"thousands of years older than the pyramids" -- and his master was...?
>could it be.... Satan?
Got to admit, I never even considered this. Put now that Ap mentioned it,
makes sense to me. Evil IS metaphysical, in my view, but it's physical
manifestation is just that. I have always contended that Nick's cure must be
a combination of repentance, forgiveness and physical alteration or
restoration. There are too many psychic and supernatural aspects to vampirism
to be completely physical, and too many physical laws obeyed to be completely
metaphysical. I DO think that LaCroix was right about WHY Nick survived the
attack by Divia. He had nurtured the essential tools for defeating the evil
over the centuries. He has learned to value of introspection and repentance.
Evil is always vanquished thus, recognition and forgiveness go a long way
here. Nick knew how to do those things.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:06:15 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
>So she
>ended up with the power of both of them, which is why she was able to
>toss LaCroix around the room like that, not to mention the rest of the
>vamps. What do you think?
>
>Sarah
Sounds plausible to me. That and the thought that this 'one of the first'
might have been in close association with Satan (Apache's hypothesis), it
seems that strength like that would be a possible outcome. Course, I don't
think LaCroix was in the 'resistant' mode when it came to his confrontation
with Divia. I think he fully expected to be killed. AND, I'm not entirely
sure that he didn't prefer that. After all, in AMPH, he damned Divia for
being right about eternity.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:36:03 -0400
From: "Meredith E. Pickering" <Plan2@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
In a message dated 96-05-12 19:13:51 EDT, Sarah Welsh writes:
> Perhaps it was the power of
>the two of them together than managed to regenerate her. If they had to
>choose between one or the other, it seems like it'd be a lot easier to
>reattach a head than reconstitute an entire body from ashes
I don't know: 'scorched', to me, indicates burned but not completely
combusted (I don't believe I'm arguing over semantics!). However, even if
his ashes were in there, why would he want to reconstitute a daughter who had
killed him?
Meredith
Natpacker, Nick&Natpacker, DracPacker
Gives a whole new meaning to 'grave danger', doesn't it?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:15:31 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
Meredith wrote:
> However, even if
>his ashes were in there, why would he want to reconstitute a daughter who had
>killed him?
I don;t think his wanting to had much to do with it. I think Divia did it
of her own accord. She was probably able to draw him to her to heal.
But then, as LC pointed out, "Does it really matter?" ;)
Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction. Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:24:35 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
On Sun, 12 May 1996, June Russell wrote:
> Carrie wrote:
> :I don't get the scene in the car when Tracy pronounces her understanding of
> :the 'evil' in Vachon. Where did that come from?
>
> I got the feeling she was just trying to strike out at him, to get him to do
> *something* with their relationship. (It seemed like a very immature thing
I thought Tracy was telling the truth as her intuition gave it to
her: something about Lacroix was the same as something about Vachon. It
struck her as evil in Lacroix, and does again in Vachon.
And sure she was using it to jab at him -- he'd just done that
disappearing act, whoosh-gone no here am I in your car with a cutesy grin,
gag on her. He's a tease, a withholder. She pulled for a little more
control in their interaction with the insult, and succeeded. The only way
she ever gets him to come out in the open about his feelings is to blow
him off. (It really does recapitulate Nick/Nat in this way, doesn't it?)
It's also the truth: come on, this is a homicide detective dealing with
some level of attraction to a guy she's watched killing someone by
drinking his blood. If he weren't evil, she could just ask him out on a
date. And she doesn't know what we know -- that every time he has a
flashback around her, he's remembering a delicious kill (MBIAV -- the babe
in the hay; Blackwing, the English soldier) -- but maybe she's been
sensing it all along.
Afterward, she made nice: do me a favor? and so did he: sure,
anything. Did anyone actually think "call me when you get home" was what
had originally been on her mind? There are layers of feeling there. And
he chased Urs out but wanted Tracy to stay -- so much wanted her around
that he asked her for the world's toughest favor: help me die. Even as
he dies, every time he so much as says her name, it makes him smile. I
thought he was trying to move to touch her, or even kiss her, as he leaned
forward a little at the end, then fell back.
They both care, they both find caring to pose some terrible
problems, they both find acting like they don't care to be the path of
least resistance, and they both hate it when the other one acts like
there's no emotion there. Great fun.
Ap.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:37:35 -0400
From: Marcy Grace <marcy@h.......>
Subject: Re: Daylight
Hi Elizabeth,
I'm a big fan of kindred too! My fantasy is Julian and Nick on screen
together (small fantasy). If you find a place to embrase, please clew
(wrong show) me in. Otherwise I'd love to chat with you about my several
HUGHS conserning things like why Calin can't know when the cop-guy can
and why the cop's vampire mate was killed while Julian has his mortal
lover etc...... I like their universe because we get to see many clans. I
would have liked diversity in FK besides LaCroix's family.
Marcy}}}}PhD}}}}}}}}}}}}]}The KnIgHt ByTeR>>>>>>>>>>>
| \\\\/////
/ \ ( O - 0 )
| O | \<VuuV>/
\ / \____/
| Para.docs
PhD
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:45:07 -0500
From: "Stormsinger/J.S. Levin" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
I agree with Saille (carla p.) at Crowhawwk in Exeter, Rhode Island -- IT
DID NOT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. Absolutely. This episode, as good as it was
and as brilliantly acted, was manipulative to the max.
Nick bringing in the troops when he should have simply gone out by himself
and investigated that "anonymous tip" -- my gods, every "protect the
Community" instinct he's got should have kicked in on that!
LaCroix somehow *not* realizing that between Urs' "nightmare" and the body
that *something* knew too much about him and was out to get him... and
despite Urs' and his own sense of danger, letting those two walk out without
so much as a "do be careful," in his best languid style.
Nick not realizing that, with what has happened to Urs, Vachon *must* be a
target -- possibly putting his partner in deadly danger...
So metaphysical a method of death for Vachon and Urs that not even LaCroix
can explain it -- which is counter to *everything* we've seen for the past
three seasons... (and I *DON'T* believe Vachon's dead for good, or Urs
unless she's cremated!) And there's no vampire legend that I can think of
to back it up, except a very old Chinese one that has that some vampire's
breath and scratches are toxic -- but to mortals, not necessarily to other
vampires. Or was that ghouls....? (A tough call, in Chinese mythology)
>There has been so much good character development in the fan fic that I
>feel like the self serving *********s who are insisting on brutalizing
>some of the characters--have no right to.
I've seen this tendency in both published and unpublished fiction as well,
where tearing up the characters is substituted for "character development".
I didn't like it there and I don't like it here.
>I'm also royally pissed. I'm all for printing up *VACHON LIVES* bumper
>stickers, along with *I DON'T Brake for Divia*.
I'll buy those bumper stickers! How about "Vachon and Screed in '96.
Because We Can!"
>I refuse to accept their scenario. I won't.
I suspect you've got a lot of company in that boat. Me, for one.
Storm
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned.
If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters"
are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:02:46 -0700
From: Antonia Spadafina <asginger@i.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Quick AtA question
Hi all--
On Sun, 12 May 1996 00:00:02 -0500 Tippi asked...
>>The question: how the heck did Divia get the cameo back? Didn't LC have it
>>at the end of AMPH?
Yep, that's true, but maybe Divia sensed its presence at the Raven and took it
while LaCroix was out. Or it could be another one of those continuity problems
that some producers think the fans won't notice. Maybe a fan should take over
the story editing job on some shows, imo.
Toni S. (New York Knightie)
asginger@i.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 23:11:50 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
> I thought that was a
>weak point of the script. We're bright enough to figure out that we're
>talking about an evil little girl here without having it paralleled in
>every other relationship in the episode.
I think the remark about evil that Tracy made in the car was to CONVINCE
us that there was no hope for Tracy and Vachon's relationship (what
relationship?). Well I am not convinced. They had potential, they HAVE
potential, Vachon is not dead!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 19:56:01 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
Meredith wrote:
:Didn't LC say that he'd put Divia in the same tomb with
:her master? Which broke the seal. Unless the Master was nothing more than a
:pile of ashes, where'd he go? He was older than Divia, and she managed to
:kill him (permanently)?
She said she staked him and scorched him to ashes in the sun. (Which even
Vachon remembered.)
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:03:27 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
WCT wrote:
:By the way, I thought that sun thing he was lying on was a rug. My
:reception was bad, though, so I could be wrong. I thought it was one of
:those little throw rugs or something.
That was a painting that was knocked over when he got thrown into the
fireplace.
I noticed it, because usually there's an easel where Divia walked through
under the stairs. Then I noticed it set up to the left of the fireplace,
where I'd never seen an easel. The painting looked like one of the ones
which is usually against the wall. (Of course, many of Nick's paintings are
of the sun.)
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:06:52 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes
Carrie wrote:
:Does anyone ever remember the art table in the loft being located beneath the
:staircase? This is a new position for it for me. Neat though.
There usually is a wheeled table under those stairs. It often has paint cans
on it.
This is what comes from being an LOL. You notice all sorts of things about
the loft: like when things are out of place and when they have been there
before. (I'm looking forward to LK, at least for the loft.)
:During the questioning of LaCroix, wouldn't the conversation be monitored in
:the room behind the two way mirror? It has always been that way before in the
:96th precinct. The remarks between LaCroix and Nick after Tracy and Reese
:leave the room seemed out of place in that particular spot. Still, perhaps
:with their vamp senses they knew they were not being overheard.
I wondered about that too.
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 23:46:23 -0400
From: Naomi P Kraus <npk1@c.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
I thought this episode was fantastic despite the fact that I'm in deep
mourning for Vachon (a Vaquera coming out of the closet). I have to admit
I'm not as depressed as I thought I'd be thanks to Apache's "Cheesy
Rationalizations" and fellow Vaquera's( I'm afraid my e-mail system dumped
a whole load of messages that I'd saved so if I don't mention names you
have my sincerest apologies) contentions that Vachon isn't
dead.
As far as the question of erasing Tracy's memory is concerned I thought
Nick was being incredibly selfish when he asked Lacroix to change her
memory. It's definitely better to have loved and lost than to have never
loved at all. I think it was Apache who made the reference to Star Trek
and Spock's erasing of Kirk's memories in "The City on the Edge of
Forever" and I thought of that episode when I watched "Ashes to
Ashes." I thought it was wrong there and I think it is wrong here.
(I agree though that Lacroix's memory wipe of Tracy would make a great
piece of fan fiction -- any taker's out there?)
One thought on Apache's rationalizations: I'm not so big on the
"resurgent goodness" argument although I do agree that he definitely went
out on a good deed (and if he really was dead I think that might have
saved him from eternal damnation). I thought Apache's argument that
Vachon could recover from being staked because Lacroix had shown in NIQ
that a vampire could recover from a staking was a good one and supported
by evidence from this episode as well. Lacroix cremated Divia's remains
even though she had been staked to make sure that she wouldn't rise again.
It's up to us to correct what TBTB have inflicted upon us. VACHON LIVES!
(and hopefully Screed too, boy do I miss him) let's make sure he shows up
again!
Naomi P. Kraus
A Vaquera for Eternity
npk1@c.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:54:51 CDT
From: "OREL, SARA" <FA55@n.......>
Subject: spoiler: ashes to ashes, amph, timing
I realize that A More Permanent Hell aired in late May last year, but I
realized as I watched it again this afternoon (that is three times, and
it is rare I rewatch an episode at all until the rerun), that I had
stayed up really late to watch AMPH last year on Sunday night before I
went in to work at 8 am on Monday to read portfolios (about one third of
our graduating seniors have as a graduation requirement to prepare a
portfolio of their papers and other experiences at the university, and
they bring in faculty for two weeks, once at the beginning of May, and
once at the end of the month, to read them). And then suddely there I
was, watching Divia and Lacroix in their dance of whatever, preparing
myself to go in and read portfolios again tomorrow. Deja vu, let me
tell you. Last year I could have taped AMPH, but I wanted to see it as
well, at the first opportunity. By the way the local stations have been
advertising FK a lot the last couple of weeks. This show is gone, isn't
it? I mean, at least for the time being? All of those concerned have
moved on to other things? I see more ads for it than I do for Babylon
5, for which a decision has not yet been made (although B5 has just been
added to the local channel in the last two months, and is in primetime
-- maybe they figure it doesn't need the ads?). I am trying hard not to let
my fantasies get away from me (anyone for Forever Lacroix please stand up
and shout ... I cannot HEAR you. Oh, cousins don't shout?). I hope
they add SciFi quickly here (they say they are adding stations, but I
can't tell when they are planning to do so).
Anyway, going through old tapes and discovered I had two tapings of
the Code and Curiouser and Curiouser (although the first couple on the
tapes are different), so I am taping Ashes to Ashes after AMPH.
By the way, there seems to have been a bit of confusion --
Divia'sselection of Urs and Vachon (how may others does Uncle allow to
sleep in his basement?Nick implied more than just Urs) is simply a
result of them having been at the club at the wrong time.
What do you suppose would have led the Toronto P.D. to check with
the Egyptian government (and it doesn't seem as though they would be
that organized to be able, within 24 hours, to let Toronto know that the
man was missing from a tomb in Luxor)? I mean, it is not as though he
was carrying his passport when he was brought to Toronto (yeah, right --
I can just see Divia stopping to pick up his papers when she had the
body).
Don't get me wrong -- I loved this episode, and I am ever so
depressed that it will be going away...
I quite love the image of Divia being able to remove her head at
will (probably she could just hypnotise Urs into confusion if she wanted
to, but the other image is just soooo much more appealing!).
I do not, however, like the idea that it is Nick's innate goodness
that has preserved him -- seems to me that Lacroix could not be so blind
as to think Nick is that pure, even on his way to being pure.
Arrrrghhhh. I still like some of the Forever Not stories that had
Lacroix coming across to live with Natalie (or not coming across, but
living with Nat as husband and wife) and Nick remaining as he is.
Does it occur to anyone that the Raven doesn't seem to need
bouncers these days? There were always creatures at the door to
separate out the desirables from the undesirables when Janette ran the
place. Although perhaps Lacroix doesn't need to have the club turn a
profit, while Janette did.
It does answer the question of where Lacroix lives, but not what
his quarters look like. I am wanting to know more -- will be signing on
the FKfic list to see what y'all come up with.
Mercenarily yours,
Sara Orel
FA55%nemomus@a.......
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Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 00:15:31 +0000
From: "Laura W. Petix" <lpetix@d.......>
Subject: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes (long)
I think the last time I posted an actual episode commentary was after
"Be My Valentine," but for some reason I'm feeling deranged enough to
do it again after "Ashes to Ashes." As always, this is pure emotion,
not logic.
As with "BMV," I've terribly mixed feeling about this episode. They
aren't as tortured as they were after "BMV," whose presentation of
LaCroix I simply could not accept, though I could not help being
enamoured of the episode despite hating it so totally. But, as before,
while there are things I whole-heartedly enjoyed, there are also
things that disturbed me because I, unlike most, do not like what TPTB
have done with LaCroix's character. I was a "cousin" (meaning, a
devote of LaCroix; I've never participated in any wars nor allied
myself with other list members) since before the second season
began--when I joined the list I did not yet know there was to be a
second season. I liked (and still do like) the LaCroix of first
season, whom I consider to be the "real" LaCroix. I don't want to
argue about this, please--it's just my feeling, and I already know
most others do not agree. Like Sandra Gray, it's my opinion that what
has been going on over the past two seasons (and especially this
season) has seriously weakened the show. In fact, I (oh no! heresy!)
am actually glad that FK is ending, because I do not like where it's
headed and have been quite disillusioned with it all this season. I
do not like watching something I love change in a bad way.
Great things about Ashes to Ashes:
The sparkling directing, and Lalonde and Bedard's writing. I love
these guys--"Curiouser and Curiouser" is one of my favourite
episodes, and one can *clearly* see the marks of "C&C" here. Lalonde
and Bedard also wrote some of my favouite "Dracula: the Series"
episodes (I am the creator of the "Dracula: the Series" web site),
and this episode was reminiscent of some of those, too--in
particular, "Black Sheep" (the one where Klaus [played by GWD] was
imprisoned in his family crypt). I especially loved the moment when
Divia quoted Klaus' words from that episode exactly: "You and, as
they say, whose army?" I really would love to know if L&B put that
in on purpose or if they just like that line and forgot they already
used it.
Great flashbacks (my flashbacks, that is) to earlier episodes!
The jail scene had me gleefully flashing to the infamous "jail
scene" dream Nick had in "Dying for Fame"--the same shots of Nick's
face peering through the bars (only this time on the other side of
them), and the whole "You're to be released" bit. I was almost
expecting Nick to follow with, "There is no release..." ;-)
The scene with Divia torturing LaCroix was *so* reminiscent of
another one of my favourite scenes from season one--LC torturing the
man who looks like his father. Divia uses almost the exact same words
on LC as LC did on his "father." "Say you're sorry." "Tell me you
love me, father."
Flashbacks to C&C, too, in more than just style: the fight scene at
the Raven, between Divia and LC, was so like the one at the end of
C&C, with LC throwing Nick around. Flashbacks to "Dark Knight": LC
about to decapitate *Nick*, in the slaughter house, and of, course,
the wonderful symmetry of Nick destroying his master in the first
episode, and now *saving* him by destroying *his* master. And Nick
destroying LC, LC destroying Divia, Divia destroying her master.
I also loved seeing that Nick is still painting (though we didn't get
to actually see him in the act). (But *what* was he doing with his
top button undone like that??? Shock!!) Oh, we've far to few scenes
of Nick doing nothing, now. I miss those horribly.
Bad Things about Ashes to Ashes:
The whole premise of Divia hurting LC by destroying those close to
him is silly. If she was going to do that, she'd have gone for Nick
and Janette to the exclusion of all others. What does LaCroix care
about his employees (Urs) or some slacker who hangs around the club
he only owns because Janette asked him to (Vachon)? I agree with
Divia: LaCroix taking his role as "innkeeper" seriously is just
bleech. LC is (should be) a loner who cares deeply for a few people
(Nick, Janette, and Divia) and cares nothing for the rest.
LaCroix is not Nick, LaCroix is LaCroix. He shouldn't act like Nick.
His reaction to Divia's proposition back in Egypt was a Nick
reaction. I do not believe LaCroix would, as Cousin Tippi put it,
"chop off [her] head just for making a pass at [him]." Couldn't
they have at least discussed it first? For goodness sakes!
I want the LaCroix who is like Divia back. I don't want another
Nick. Nick is lovely when he angsts and feels guilty and acts
self-righteous, but we don't need two of him! I don't think this
softening of LC's character makes him *deeper*--it makes him more
shallow. He should be twisted--should have reasons for his
behaviour, but let them be twisted reasons; let them be reasons we
have to work to find; reaons most people can't see or accept; let
his reactions not be reactions a "normal" person would have! He's
LaCroix! Sigh.
No more incoherent musings from me for a while.
Laura WP
lpetix@d.......
Ashes to Ashes waves: http://www.dpcc.com/dpcc/assoc/lpetix/waves/
Lucard's Home Page: http://www.dpcc.com/dpcc/assoc/lpetix/lucard/
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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:30:02 -0700
From: Antonia Spadafina <asginger@i.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Ashes to ashes (what else?)
Hi all--
Whew, it's late and work is in a very few hours. I think I've read all the
myriad opinions and I agree with most of the them.
I do have a couple of points to make that I think may be relevent. Bear with
me. I only saw the episode once so far - Mother's Day, and all...
1- Since I'm pretty new to this list stuff, I'm not sure how the rest of you
feel about evil. Do you all think a vampire is evil simply because he exists?
I think you can draw a parallel to the serial killers mentioned in the beginning
of the ep. A serial killer usually comes from a bad environment, is himself the
victim of abuse. Some say a serial killer was born with some of the "social"
connections missing from his brain. Is he evil? Well, maybe in a way he is,
since he doesn't follow the moral code of others on the planet. A vampire
doesn't follow a moral code, either. He follows the code of survival. That
need to live governs how he feels, what he does and what he says. Or perhaps,
for a vampire, it is in the making of him that dictates the nadir to which he
will sink to survive. Remember, a relatively holy woman (a priestess) made
Vachon and although he killed, he didn't seem to revel in the bloodlust as
Francesca did. In Fever, Vachon tells Tracy that he's left behind many human
friends. So he's closer to human than others. Nick and Janette and LaCroix
were made by those more attuned to the reveler, and therefore the environment
as well as the genetic start, contributed to their vampiric attitudes. (Boy oh
boy - is it really after midnight?)
2- ObFK: The scene in the tomb and the news of Divia having been made by the
ruler of the land - an ancient evil - reminded me of the storyline of AR's
Queen of the Damned. Many parallels.
Gee, I had other points to make, but they've gone clear out of my head. Maybe
I'll remember tomorrow.
Good night all,
Toni, Knightie from NYC (with definite Cousinly tendencies & maybe Unnamed)
asginger@i.......
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