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FKSPOILR

Logfile LOG9605 Part 21

May 12, 1996

File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 21

	TOPICS:
	SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes  (7)
	Ashes to Ashes  (2)
	Ashes mini-loop (no spoilr)
	spoilers: francesca - blood knowledge
	Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes -- LaCroix
	Ashes
	SPOILER: Last Knight (Ep Synopsis)
	Spoiler: Ashes
	Ashes: why Vachon is NOT DEAD
	SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes, Tracy's memories  (2)
	SPOILER: AtA: New faction: Cleopatras

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 15:27:04 -0400
From:         Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

        OK, a serious post.

        Wowee!  was this a great ep or what!  It had everything that made
me fall for FK in the first place, including the show's self-teasing good
humor ("does it really matter?") about the sheer silliness of a vampire
cop show.  And then underneath -- hey, Ok, this isn't "ER," but -- wait a
minute, ER's about life and death, and us, we're talking about The Human
Soul here... oh, that little thing.  If only FK had had the luck to get
treated as Fox treated X-Files.  I look forward very much to its return
in some incarnation or other down the road.

        Fabulous writing.  Beautiful directing:  what Jon Cassar did in
shot after shot with the imagery of glass for the fragility of life, even
vampire life, contrasted with the golden glow of death in the Egyptian
tomb... and that's just if you had the sound down.  Antoinette Messam was
far and away the best of the show's continuing saga of Costume Designers;
last week Francesca looked great in 1755 Paris; this week Lacroix and
Divia looked great in Egypt.

        The acting -- I agree, look out Nigel Bennett, here comes another
Gemini nomination, and this episode could also support nominations for Blu
Mankuma and Geraint Wyn Davies, though other episodes this season would be
better.  Lovely work too by Catherine Disher, Ben Bass, Kathryn Long and
Kristin Lehman.  Lisa Ryder, darling... you need to brush up on Major
Emotions.  You do great in naturalism, like the scene in the car, but the
reactions to Vachon staking himself and expiring, and the weeping over the
corpse, were terminally unbelievable.  It read as way underplayed, not to
say just not very good.  Ben Bass cleverly resorted to Shakespearean
tricks when the scene went all Grand Guignol and gothic, and then went
back to naturalism as he died -- subverting/creating good tension with
his lines each way.  Wish Lisa Ryder had done the same.

        Laurie CF and others have said wonderfully how great a development
this episode was for Lacroix.  Having done such evil himself, how could he
have been other than he is for the last 2000 years?  And having known
himself to be father to such evil fully 1000 years before bringing Janette
and Nick across -- o, delicious character! "Forever The Cross" is a real
possibility at this point for me.  I really like the way the show has
veered powerfully toward the metaphysical reading of the vampire condition
lately -- and Nick's utter shock at Lacroix's "I may even say a prayer" --
too delicious, in a wholly delicious episode.

        The circularity of Divia, in the show's penultimate episode,
telling Lacroix she killed her master because he tried to control her, and
Nick flaming-staking Lacroix for the exact same reason 1900 years later,
in the show's premiere, was nifty.  Lacroix in the holding tank, with five
or six petrified thugs .... wonderful.  Long before Nigel delivered his
line about "the disenfranchised," his body language, standing there so
still and upright in the diametrically opposite corner, said it all.
Another delicious moment.  "I believe you'll find what you're looking for
here ... and there."  Nick's "...please" in that same scene (remember him
thanking Janette for playing along with police procedure instead of just
flying away in -- is it Fate Worse than Death?).

        Divia slamming Lacroix around -- evil is very tough, n'est-ce
pas?  Poor Lucien.  And then his heart breaks as Divia writhes with the
stake through her (at the other end of the spectrum from Luke Skywalker
finally reclaiming Darth Vader's soul with "Father help me" as the
Emperor hits him with a few gigawatts of psychic energy), and Nick has to
restrain him from helping -- not much restraint, the force of one love
(Nick) having to overpower the other (Divia).  Lovely.

        Ya know, between the distressing altruistic streak, the 'there is
good in you' speech in the face of the possessing demon, listening
placidly to Janette saying she has been given doubts by prolonged exposure
to Nick, and this attribution of survival to 'resurgent goodness' ... if
Lacroix falls in love with a mortal, I'd say he might, like Janette, run
up against the 'human factor' himself.

        If I started in scene by scene, it would take all day (ok, I
heard those groans!  and THEN I'll read my little war poem, The Iliad)
to praise all the great moments in this ep.

Apache

HELP SAVE REAL LIFE!
Visit http://aol.members.com/FuzNatLamb/SaveRealLife.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 12:41:45 -0700
From:         "Diana L. Edwards" <frisson@i.......>
Subject:      Ashes to Ashes

I just saw this ep and you all have summed it up well.  WOW!!! is right.

I just wanted to say that these, *finally*, are the LaCroix and Nick scenes
that I have been wanting to see for three seasons.  I always thought that
they would happen in a flashback, but I think I like this better.

*Finally* an episode with LaCroix as its center.

Nigel, you truly are a master. <VBG>

Bonnie wrote:
>>ObWeird FK Comment:  I have *seen* the final LC/Nick scene before -- I don't
>>know how or where, but I *have* seen it!

I'n glad I'm not the only one.  Wasn't there a first season episode where LC
and Nick stood over a burning body?  I'm in the process of re-watching
season one now and I'm going to be looking for this.  Does anyone remember?

~~Cousin Diana
frisson@i.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 14:58:23 -0500
From:         TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject:      Ashes mini-loop (no spoilr)

Hey all,
Clearly this ep has had a profound emotional impact on just about everyone
who saw it, including me.  If anyone wants to start an Ashes mini-loop, let
me know.  We can talk at length about the nittiest of gritties without
worrying about flooding the main spoilr list.

Toodles!
Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction.  Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 13:00:15 -0700
From:         Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

Dotti wrote:
>I do want to answer (was it Bonnie)

Yes, it was me.<G>

>who seemed so upset with Nick's having
>Tracy forget that Vachon died.  Do you really think it would be easier for
>her to sleep nights with the memory of Vachon impaling himself on the stake
>in her hands?

Definately!  And it's not like she actually killed him -- he committed
suicide!  At least she was there for him, yet again, when he was dying.

>I don't think so. She cared about him, and made the statement
>that she really didn't think they would work because the "evil" she felt in
>him scared her, so it's not as if she would feel hurt for long that he left.

But she was just protecting herself.  She obviously cares *very* deeply
about this guy (she has risked her life when he has been violent towards her
due to illness -- Fever and AtA -- to be with him, to show by her actions,
even if she can't with her words, that she cares), but he's so mysterious to
her.  She hints around at the relationship topic, hoping he'll bite (so to
speak), yet he never does.  It's more like she is trying to convince herself
with that "I feel evil in you" line -- I don't think she truly believes that
he is evil (of course, the vampire part of him does freak her out) but she
has never seen him kill or torture someone (except Vudu who was trying to
blow up TO) and she has seen him help Screed and herself many times.

So, I think that she *would* hurt a lot if she thought he had just left --
all those unresolved feelings she has for him.  She would torture herself
with "I should have said more" and "I said too much" for a long while.  She
would be angry at herself for driving him away, or not being enticing enough
to keep him around.  And, eventually, she would become angry at him for
leaving, for not responding to all of her hinting about relationships.

>I'm sure if he was going to bother to plant that it was time for Vachon to
>move on, he would plant that they had a fitting farwell so there would be
>closure.

Yeah, but if he really cared about her, which is what she wants, then he
wouldn't leave.  And I don't think that LC could plant anything in her head
to make her believe that his leaving was a good thing.  After all, she has
had no experience with vampires and is unfamiliar with the reasons they move
on -- heck, Nick wasn't able to convince Nat that it was best that he move
on (in BB).


>I know if I cared for someone at all, I wouldn't want to remember
>them dying in front me for any reason, and I would welcome being made to
>forget.  It's the same theory I have for funeral homes.  The last memory I
>want of a person is a happy one, when they were alive, not looking at them
>laid out unnaturally in a coffin.  Some folks say it's necessary for some
>kind of "closure", I don't think so, it just continues to haunt me.

I don't think having to see the dead body is necessary for closure -- dead
bodies kinda freaks *me* out actually, and I have seen plenty of them
(related and not).  But, my point is, knowing that a person is dead (whether
you see the body or not) is different from thinking that person is still
alive and can't (or won't or doesn't want to be) with you.  Closure doesn't
necessarily come with the package of death -- more often than not there are
things that get left unsaid (remember Nat and her grandmother in DoN?) --
but, for Tracy, knowing that Vachon is dead would be better than knowing
that he doesn't want her enough to stick around.

And if Nick is going to all of the trouble to make her forget stuff, then it
why leave her with the knowledge of vampires?  This makes no sense to me --
knowing about vampires will not bring Vachon back or make her any less upset
that he is gone (dead or skipped town), yet it will continue to complicate
Nick's relationship with Tracy -- even worse will be having the knowledge of
vampires and *no one* to talk to about them (at least before she had Vachon
to talk to) -- the least he could do is let her know that Nat knows (even if
Tracy just thinks that Nat knows about Urs, Screed, and Vachon and no one
else).  I maintain that Nick is being a selfish, inconsiderate BRICK!

Any speculation on whether Nat would have confided in Tracy if Nick and
Vachon had both turned up dead?

Bonnie  (callalily@l.......)

The Vaqueros have a New, Ultra Cool, Not-To-Be-Missed Web Page!!!  Prepare
yourself to be blown away!  Lots of drop dead pictures! <g>

Check it out at  http://users.lanminds.com/~callalily/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 13:26:16 -0700
From:         Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject:      Re: Ashes to Ashes

At 12:41 PM 5/12/96 -0700, Diana L. Edwards wrote:
>Bonnie wrote:
>>>ObWeird FK Comment:  I have *seen* the final LC/Nick scene before -- I don't
>>>know how or where, but I *have* seen it!

>
>I'n glad I'm not the only one.  Wasn't there a first season episode where LC
>and Nick stood over a burning body?

No, no!  Not a season one ep -- but *this* *exact* *scene*, this dialogue!
It's weird.

Bonnie  (callalily@l.......)

The Vaqueros have a New, Ultra Cool, Not-To-Be-Missed Web Page!!!  Prepare
yourself to be blown away!  Lots of drop dead pictures! <g>

Check it out at  http://users.lanminds.com/~callalily/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 16:28:05 -0400
From:         "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject:      Re: spoilers: francesca - blood knowledge

The problems that have been brought up about the "whole life in each drop of
blood" concept don't seem like problems to me, because I don't understand
this "knowing" to be intelllectual knowledge of objective facts, but rather
an empathic, gestalt-like immersion in the donor's personality.  I see it as
conveying emotions, general impressions (Vachon gets a confused rush of
images from Divia, not an orderly chronology of her life), etc., which would
not rule out Nick's "catching" a temporary talent in music from the victim's
blood.  And I don't see why the memory would be completely wiped out after
the 2 hours are up, in the sense of complete amnesia; the way I see it, the
vampire would remember having shared these feelings and impressions, but the
*experience* of the sharing would have faded away.  I see the Quickening in
HIGHLANDER as somewhat similar, except that the experience doesn't go away
but has to be integrated into the recipient's psyche -- but doesn't take him
over except in the case of the Dark Quickening, which I assume took over
Duncan because it came from a very old, powerful Immortal who had absorbed
lots of other quickenings.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 15:28:00 -0500
From:         Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject:      Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes -- LaCroix

What gets me is that after all this time, he's still second-guessing
himself: "I could have done as Divia asked."  As reprehensible (and
probably secretly, forbiddenly attractive) to him as that would have
been, he's still not sure that the pain would have been any less than
what he suffered anyway by thinking he'd killed her.  This from Mr.
No-Regrets himself.  And he's been hiding that pain for almost 2000 years
behind a facade by which Nick was entirely taken in.  No wonder that
first-season LaCroix was so starkly evil -- we saw him only in Nick's
flashbacks and fantasies.  And the LaCroix Nick knew was the one who
refused to let any of his softer emotions show because of the scars he
sustained from the whole Divia incident.  As we've gotten to see LaCroix
in the present for ourselves, we began taking Nick's word as truth but
have slowly been led to see him in a warmer and warmer light.  If I
didn't know that TPTB didn't really think about it all that much, I'd say
that the last two seasons had been carefully planned to show LaCroix
becoming more and more a part of Nick's "real" world as opposed to some
dark vampire universe off somewhere; seeing him in the precinct in
Father's Day was a shock, his proximity to Natalie in Azure seemed
threatening, but in the third season he's become more and more
"socialized" to the extent that he and Natalie don't seem out of place in
a scene together, that he can reminesce about the "good old days" with
Nick and Vachon, etc.  TPTB don't deserve such a seemingly
well-thought-out progression of character, and they owe it all to the
prodigious talent of Nigel Bennett.

You can tell that this episode is so good by the way it casts a new light
on all the episodes that came before.  What seemed to be callousness or
cruelty in LaCroix can be seen as fear of vulnerability and of
abandonment.  Nick is the one person that he loves so much that it gives
him the ability to crush him.  It says a lot that LaCroix returned in the
second season with nary a word of reproach about Nick's trying to shish
kebab him.  He probably *expected* Nick to detest him because he hated
himself for what had gone on with Divia.  He thought he deserved to be
punished for his role in an no-win situation: take her as his lover and
hate himself, or kill her and hate himself.  He chases Nick around the
world not out of vindictiveness but out of hidden love; he has killed
those whom Nick loves for fear that his son wouldn't need him anymore.
Horrible and twisted?  Possibly.  *Human?*  Definitely.  All this talk
about Nick's angst, and LaCroix has been caught in a cycle of
self-recrimination for millennia.

In relation to BMV, we noted Fleur's resemblance to Nick, but what about
her resemblance to Divia?  Young, blond, child-like, but she was all
innocence and purity where Divia revealed a "corrupt" and "depraved"
nature.  Perhaps he feared that she would become like his daughter/mother
if he brought her across.  He most probably believed that he didn't
deserve to have love because of his shame over what Divia wanted.  A
tragic fact about familial sexual abuse is that the victim nearly always
blames himself: he loves the person who abused him and feels that it
wouldn't have happened if he weren't somehow guilty.  In the present day,
he spared Natalie not because Nick was actually able to fool him but
because he loves Nick and wants something better for his child than he
had for himself.  He couldn't admit to that, of course.  He's been too
busy protecting himself and his hurt and his dirty little secret.  I'm
sure he thought that if Nick knew about Divia, he would hate him even
more.  The look on LaCroix' face when Nicholas reaches out to him in the
Raven -- almost impossible surprise.  And then at the end, he lets
himself reach back.  Not out of the woods yet, by any means, but he
found acceptance and understanding where he most wanted it and least
thought that he could find it.  And I think that Nick, like us, has a new
understanding of LaCroix' nature as well.

You wonder how much Janette know.  More than Nicholas, I'm certain, but
not the whole story by any means.  She probably got no explanation at all,
but NB has said that they were lovers before they met Nick.  I'm sure she
got something from his blood -- not his whole life story, as we were led
to believe in Francesca (otherwise, Nick would already have known this
whole thing or had some clue at any rate) -- but the repeated and
emotionally-significant blood-sharing would have let Janette know that
there was more to LaCroix than met the eye. Hence, her encouragement in
Father Figure -- she didn't know exactly what it was that LaCroix needed
to exorcise, but she knew that there was something and hoped that his
torture sessions would help.  But she knew that Nick wasn't ready to
understand that yet, that he needed to see LaCroix as the ultimate
bugabear.  So she was put in the position of being the buffer zone and the
glue between two people she loved.

This episode has made me go back and re-evaluate *everything* I've ever
seen on FK.  I love it.  Why couldn't it all have been like this?

Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 16:46:11 -0400
From:         Carla Pickering <carlap@e.......>
Subject:      Ashes

I posted the following privately to one person but managed to get myself on
spoiler quicker than I thought.  So here it is repeated (sorry for
duplicating):

"Came into my office because thats where the computer is--after Ashes last
night I needed some contact.  Realize Ashes is still on spoiler, thus the
private post.   I *am* going to a LK party next weekend but honestly don't
know how I can do it either.

All I can say is "it did *not* have to be that way.  Vachon was not that
much younger than Nick and if Urse had just lived a few more minutes to tell
Nick what was going on, Nick could have gone to the church instead of the
station and called in the troops to save Vachon--then off to the Raven.
There has been so much good character development in the fan fic that I feel
like the self serving *********s who are insisting on brutalizing some of
the characters--have no right to.

I am very depressed.  I can think of only one thing that brought me down as
far--and that was when I had to move off of an almost magical farm I was
living on, through no fault of my own, back in 1984.  But I'm also royally
pissed.  I'm all for printing up *VACHON LIVES* bumper stickers, along with
*I DON'T Brake for Divia*.   I refuse to accept their scenario.  I won't.

Saille (carla p.) at  Crowhawwk in Exeter, Rhode Island
with Joanna Darkwind the Wolfish Wonderpup
Vaquera and Apricot Sympathizer with Light Cousinly
and Dark N & N Leanings
VACHON LIVES, RAGE AGAINST THE RAVAGING OF THE KNIGHT
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 16:47:01 -0400
From:         Roxanne Piccen <RoxanneP@a.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Last Knight (Ep Synopsis)

Well, well, well.  Amazingly enough, my local newspaper's t.v. section
actually lists FK in the highlights section this week.  (Figures they'd only
do that for the final episode.)  FWIW, following is the brief synopsis of
Last Knight:

S

P

O

I

L

E

R


S

P

A

C

E

"Series  Finale:  Forever Knight.  In the series finale, "Last Knight", Nick
and Natalie (Geraint Wyn Davies, Catherine Disher) lose a close mutual
friend.  In working through their grief, Natalie realizes how much she
loves Nick, while Nick realizes he must finally choose between eternal
life and true love."

Roxanne

RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work)
*****************************************************************************
Save Forever Knight!  //  Save American Gothic!  Check out:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 16:47:48 -0500
From:         TORREY L HARRIS <Dona_Torrey@p.......>
Subject:      Spoiler: Ashes

Well my beloved Vachon is dead or at least it looks that way. I stayed
up last night to watch the show thinking that I would hate it, and a
strange thing happened. I thought it was a good show.

 Let me set the record straight so my fellow Vaqueros don't hunt me
down <G>. I was heartsick to see Vachon die. I wish I could go back and
change it but it is done. I think that after the season is over we will
all have to make some decisions on how to handle the deaths of the
characters for the future Wars, but we can deal with that later.

Here were some of my thoughts on the show:

1.I miss Vachon already

2. I never would have thought of Urs and Vachon as being *close* to
LaCroix.

3. I felt that the part with Nick was rushed but that may just be me.

Other than that I felt that the story was very good and that Nigel did
a *wonderful* job. LaCroix was in rare form through the whole show and
I found myself glued to the T.V screen. It was so nice to see all of
the different emotions in LaCroix.

Well I have rambled long enough. I am going now to morn the death of
our beloved "bad boy" <pout>.

Dona Torrey
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 17:21:14 -0400
From:         Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

On Sun, 12 May 1996, TippiNB wrote:

> And now everyone who's always saying *LaCroix* is evil is probably thinking
> he's practically the Pope!  Man that girl wasn't just evil, she was THE
> evil.  The source of all evil.  The evil to end all evils.  She makes her Pa
> look like a Boy Scout!  No, wait -- a Girl Scout!  Man!  Whew!  Not since
> the invention of cheesecake has the world seen such evil!


        Actually, think back to the master who picked her because he'd
never seen such pure evil in one so young.  In Lacroix's phrase, he
amplified that evil 100 times.  If Divia, aged 20, was so evil she lasted
2000 years without food, and managed to get her head back on (facing the
right direction, even), dontcha figure the Egyptian is still boxed up and
ready to go?  When Hamid's brother opens the other sarcophagus, is *he* in
for a surprise!

        This also plays into the metaphysical origin of vampirism -- in
fact, I thought Bedard and Lalonde were hinting at a nearly Biblical
origin for the evil in this one: Divia's master was "one of the first" and
"thousands of years older than the pyramids" -- and his master was...?
could it be.... Satan?  And it may be that in the FK universe, the more
generations you are away from the source, the less powerful the pull of
evil inherent in vampirism is -- and therefore the more vulnerable to a
biological, as well as metaphysical, "cure" the "virus" is.

Ap.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 17:55:56 -0400
From:         "Meredith E. Pickering" <Plan2@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Ashes: why Vachon is NOT DEAD

In a message dated 96-05-12 12:43:25 EDT, Apache writes:

>  The Traditional FK Continuity part:  Look, Divia made it back
>from being decapitated.  As Whoopi Goldberg said in "Soapdish," "You know
>what that means?  It means [s]he has no head!!  How am I supposed to write
>dialogue for a character with NO HEAD?!?"

I read this message moments after turning on HBO (Sun. afternoon) and
realizing that "Soapdish" was showing...

Meredith
Natpacker, Nick&Natpacker, Dracpacker
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 18:26:40 -0400
From:         "Meredith E. Pickering" <Plan2@a.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

In a message dated 96-05-12 17:24:17 EDT, Apache writes:

>f Divia, aged 20, was so evil she lasted
>2000 years without food, and managed to get her head back on (facing the
>right direction, even), dontcha figure the Egyptian is still boxed up and
>ready to go?  When Hamid's brother opens the other sarcophagus, is *he* in
>for a surprise!

O.K. folks-  I think I discovered a plot-hole the size of Texas - but correct
me if I'm wrong...  Didn't LC say that he'd put Divia in the same tomb with
her master?  Which broke the seal.  Unless the Master was nothing more than a
pile of ashes, where'd he go?  He was older than Divia, and she managed to
kill him (permanently)?  Just a thought.  I now return you to your typical
spoiler postings.

Meredith
Natpacker, Nick&Natpacker, Dracpacker
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "grave danger" now, doesn't it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 16:11:47 +0000
From:         Lisa Wolters <redjasper@e.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

You guys are too darned quick on the send button when
an episode is this outstanding!  I'm too bowled over by
the *power* of "Ashes" to even begin to analyze its
imagery, dialogue, and revelations....something I know
I'll be doing for years to come.  Nick sprawled out on
the sun painting.  Oh man oh man oh man...

Let me just say this: Go, Divia, go!  She's the "Bad Seed"
times a thousand, and I *loved* her. The actress who plays
her has improved a thousand-fold since AMPH, too.  She
was *perfect.*  Am I the only one who thought TPTB had
perfectly captured Chris Hunt's Divia from "Other Side of
Evil"?  :)

Nick and LaCroix have moved onto a whole nuther plane of
existence.  I like, I like.  (Am I saying that???)  LaCroix
is now officially the King of Angst.  :)  Makes Nick look
like a chip off the ol' buzzcut.  (Now *that* would be a
truly bad Ger hair ep... Nick with LaCroix's 'do and brows.)

And what little Nick & Nat there was was perfect--sweet
and tender... with just a hint of uncertainty.

The Tracy/Vachon interaction played flat to me, although I
did like Vachon's pose as he impaled himself on the stake.
Neat symbolism.  Urs?  <Shrug.>  Although imho she did have
the best death scene.  The elevator scene was creepy.  Divia
was all over her like "The Birds."  But there was so much else
going on here, and even the newer characters got decent
treatment, that there was mostly meat and little fat in the ep.

I can't believe the momentum that's building toward "Last
Knight" or that at the 11th hour, FK is living up to its worth.
Where were these eps at the beginning of the season???  I hope
that TPTB *will* resurrect this show, especially now that
it's been stripped back down to basics, yet with far, far
more complex layers of characterization added to it.

Nervously awaiting "Last Knight"....

Lisa W. * redjasper@e.......
(formerly MVRJasper@a.......)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 18:09:30 -0500
From:         Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

On Sun, 12 May 1996, Meredith E. Pickering wrote:

> Didn't LC say that he'd put Divia in the same tomb with
> her master?  Which broke the seal.  Unless the Master was nothing more than a
> pile of ashes, where'd he go?  He was older than Divia, and she managed to
> kill him (permanently)?

Well, she did say that she "scorched him in the sun" which I took as a
euphemism for burning him pretty darn bad, considering what happened to
the Vietnamese vamp in CRCH.  So say that his ashes *were* in the
sarcophagus with Divia's decapitated body.  Perhaps it was the power of
the two of them together than managed to regenerate her.  If they had to
choose between one or the other, it seems like it'd be a lot easier to
reattach a head than reconstitute an entire body from ashes.  So she
ended up with the power of both of them, which is why she was able to
toss LaCroix around the room like that, not to mention the rest of the
vamps.  What do you think?

Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 18:14:30 -0500
From:         Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes, Tracy's memories

At 01:00 PM 5/12/96 -0700, Bonnela wrote:

>I maintain that Nick is being a selfish, inconsiderate BRICK!

Well, I don't know whether Nick is being a brick or not, but he's not being
selfish or inconsiderate.  He may have overstepped by interfering in
Tracy's memories, but he did it in an effort to give Tracy some comfort.

>And if Nick is going to all of the trouble to make her forget stuff, then
>why leave her with the knowledge of vampires?

Because from what he overheard Tracy say, knowing about vampires was the
most important thing  Vachon did for Tracy.  It showed her that the world
had so much more to it than she had known before.

>If he really cared about her, then he ... wouldn't leave. I don't think
>that LC could plant anything in her head to make her believe that his
>leaving was a good thing.  ...she is unfamiliar with the reasons they
>move on -- Nick wasn't able to convince Nat that it was best that he move
>on (in BB).

We don't know that she's unfamiliar with the reasons they move on.  We
don't know that Vachon hasn't talked to her about that.

It *wasn't* best for Nick to move on in BB, not if he wants to be human
and not a vampire.  He wanted to leave to escape pain.  He wanted to just
run off and start a new life.  I think it has to do with this recurring
theme in FK about what life is.  Remember, Nick says what he's living
isn't life; it's a shadow of a life.  If he runs off, that makes that very
true.  If he stays, faces the pain, and takes his job as a detective
seriously, then he is closer to having a real life, a human life.  Vachon,
on the other hand has never expressed a desire to be anything other than
a vampire.

LaCroix is awfully good at getting people to think what he wants them to
think.  He knows Nick is trying to make Tracy feel better, not worse.
He's not going to do anything to make Tracy think Vachon just up and left
and didn't care about her.  He's going to try to make Tracy feel that
Vachon was a good friend whose time to leave had come, so that Tracy
can remember him with fondness, and less sadness than she would otherwise.

Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 19:44:16 -0500
From:         MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR <VQRW76A@p.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: AtA: New faction: Cleopatras

Actually, most of us have belonged to this faction since December.

Cleopatra, Queen of Denial ('the Nile ain't just a river in Egypt'). I
hearby take as our motto Jamie's rant on FORKNI-L a while ago:

NOBODY DIES. NOBODY EVER DIED.

I refuse to accept the unacceptable. You can't change any reality if you
just go with it.  We are just now almost into the second two-year hiatus,
that's all. If they had one between first and second season, why not now?

Hummin' along with Patty Loveless,

Christina       vqrw76a@p.......    Merc   Universal Donor  FoFoD  Cleo
  Off on a short vacation, back soon, no, there's no men in white coats and
butterfly nets involved, despite appearances....
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 17:14:18 -0700
From:         Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes, Tracy's memories

At 06:14 PM 5/12/96 -0500, Margie Hammet wrote:
>At 01:00 PM 5/12/96 -0700, Bonnela wrote:
>>I maintain that Nick is being a selfish, inconsiderate BRICK!

>He may have overstepped by interfering in
>Tracy's memories, but he did it in an effort to give Tracy some comfort.

It's a nice thought, but... it is still what *Nick* thinks is best.  Hasn't
he learned anything from Nat?  Doesn't he ever listen to her when she tells
him how *his* actions make her feel?  Does it ever occur to Nick that Tracy
might *want* to mourn Vachon's passing? -- that in the end, to face the
reality of it is the best thing.


>> make her forget stuff, then.. the knowledge of vampires?

>Because from what he overheard Tracy say, knowing about vampires was the
>most important thing  Vachon did for Tracy.  It showed her that the world
>had so much more to it than she had known before.

Okay, you have a point here.  But I still maintain that it is cruel to let
her believe in vampires and not be able to talk to *anyone* about them --
not that she'll be interacting with known vampires any more, but still she
could get herself in a lot of trouble this way.


>>Nick wasn't able to convince Nat that it was best that he move
>>on (in BB).

>It *wasn't* best for Nick to move on in BB, not if he wants to be human
>and not a vampire.  He wanted to leave to escape pain.  He wanted to just
>run off and start a new life.

This is my point.  This is Nick's attitude and he assumes that everyone
feels the same way.  He says to Nat in BB that he has found it easiest to
just leave and not say good-bye.  And she points out that it is easiest for
him, but he has no idea how the people he leaves behind are feeling.  He
assumes it is best for them, like he assumes it is best for Tracy to think
that Vachon just left.

If you relate it to Janette's leaving or being dead, then yes Nick is right.
But Janette did *just* leave and he will eventually meet up with her again.
Tracy does not have that option -- she could wait her whole life to meet up
with Vachon again and it will NEVER happen.  This is where the lack of
closure comes in; how can she get on with her life if she thinks that he
cares and that he is still alive somewhere in the world, yet didn't want her
with him?


>LaCroix is awfully good at getting people to think what he wants them to
>think.<snip> He's going to try to make Tracy feel that
>Vachon was a good friend whose time to leave had come, so that Tracy
>can remember him with fondness, and less sadness than she would otherwise.

But she loves him.  If LC convinces her that they are just good friends,
then she will lose the memories of those loving feelings.  Or she will at
least believe that Vachon never did return those feelings, which would be
very depressing for her.  At least knowing he is dead, those romantic
feelings are preserved.  I really don't think there is anyway for LC to
convince Tracy that Vachon truly cares about her but left anyway.

But I will give you that Nick did have the best of intentions.



Bonnie  (callalily@l.......)

The Vaqueros have a New, Ultra Cool, Not-To-Be-Missed Web Page!!!  Prepare
yourself to be blown away!  Lots of drop dead pictures! <g>
Check it out at  http://users.lanminds.com/~callalily/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 19:29:39 -0500
From:         TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

Sarah wrote:

> So she
>ended up with the power of both of them, which is why she was able to
>toss LaCroix around the room like that, not to mention the rest of the
>vamps.  What do you think?

Yeah, I'll buy that.  That sounds good to me.  :)

By the way, I thought that sun thing he was lying on was a rug.  My
reception was bad, though, so I could be wrong.  I thought it was one of
those little throw rugs or something.

And what about that painting you see when Divia first shows up in the loft?
The one with the guy screaming with a flaming background behind him...
Creepy.  A portrait of Dear Old Dad?

Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction.  Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix.
=========================================================================

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