FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 20
May 12, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 20
TOPICS:
Ashes: why Vachon is NOT DEAD
Quick Question - AtA spoiler
SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes (5)
TV Guide Listing "Last Knight" (2)
Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
"Cheezy rationals" (was: Apaches's NO-NO header!) (2)
Spoiler: AtA and speculation regarding LK
ASHES TO ASHES (2)
SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes: Dear Divia.... (2)
ashes to ashes
spoiler: ashes to ashes
Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:39:58 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Ashes: why Vachon is NOT DEAD
A revised, enlarged version of what I posted a few weeks back:
At last.. three months after finding out They Killed Him, I have
a good reason for going into permanent denial:
Cutting to the chase: there is a plausible reason, consistent
with FK reasoning and the internal logic of "Ashes to Ashes," why Vachon
is NOT DEAD at the end of this episode.... buried, mind you, inert, not
breathing not talking not even blinking ... but not dead.
Here it is: in Ashes to Ashes, Urs, Vachon, and Nick are all
bitten by Divia the Demon Daughter with Poison Blood. Her bite induces
some kind of death-dealing madness in each of them, but with different
outcomes: Urs dies in Nick's elevator, stays dead, and winds up on a slab
in Nat's morgue. Nick survives and remarks later to Lacroix that it is
his *age* that allowed him to handle the madness and disease. Vachon
suffers a murderous delirium, experiencing Divia's memories *and* her
fantasies, I think, and then, with some participation by Tracy, stakes
himself to stop the pain and finish up the dying. Tracy then buries him
down by Screed.
Now, on to the Cheesy Rationalization <g>:
Here's why Vachon could be OK -- 1. The Divia part of being dead.
Urs is 116, Vachon is 464, and Nick is 767 -- vampire years, not counting
their mortal lives. So if endurance is an issue, Vachon is close to the
middle between Nick and Urs. Vachon might be wrong about his ability to
survive -- he clearly believes he can't survive what Divia did to him, but
he could be wrong (remember, this is a cheesy rationalization, and one
written by a lawyer to boot, that you're reading here).
If Lacroix is right and it was Nick's 'resurgent goodness' that
allowed him to survive, Vachon still has a good chance. He died being a
Boy Scout -- helping Tracy with info, offering help to Divia the Uber-Brat
who was weeping in an alley, and getting Urs away from him before he
killed her. All of these are Nice, not Naughty, on a Santa Claus scale of
Who Gets Goodies. Of course, bearing in mind that he's probably dined on
tens of thousands of humans over the years, it may not entirely tip the
scales... but, hey, this is *my* cheesy rationalization and I think it
might be nice enough to get him a second bite at the apple.
2. The Stake part of being dead. After Vachon vamps out and
impales himself on the handy stake Tracy is holding (and why did he have a
nicely sharpened stake in his home, one wonders? Stole it off the Century
21 'This Church For Sale Or Rent' sign on the front lawn?), and dies,
Tracy pulls the stake out almost immediately afterwards, as we know
because Nick gets there while she's still in the early stages of sniffling
over the body. In "Night in Question," we saw Lacroix, who is 1917 years
old, if memory serves, survive being staked without even losing
consciousness, though he needed Nick to get the stake out of him if he was
to avoid dying eventually. Then he recovers. So, in my cheesy
rationalization, Vachon can recover from being staked for a matter of
minutes by Tracy, especially since she usefully puts him out of the reach
of the sun. It could take a few months, or a few years, or a century, who
knows (since he's not feeding)... but he can live. The impulse of a
vampire body is to heal itself, preferably with the help of fresh blood.
Which means anybody in that park when he gets enough better to
return to consciousness and climb out of the ground is in Big Trouble <g>.
3. The Traditional FK Continuity part: Look, Divia made it back
from being decapitated. As Whoopi Goldberg said in "Soapdish," "You know
what that means? It means [s]he has no head!! How am I supposed to write
dialogue for a character with NO HEAD?!?"
As Lacroix says to Nick about Divia: "does it really matter?"
Although Vachon is not "far too old and powerful," he's way too gorgeous
and sexy, and that's a perfectly adequate reason for immortality.
Of course, the real continuity problem here is that TPTB probably
don't want to work with Ben Bass again. And if I were Ben Bass, I'd want
to mangle Nigel for the "guitar" shot. But that's what fans are for....
Ken Wahl and Stephen J. Cannell are singing each other's praises these
days, who'da thunk it?
cheerfully believing two impossible things before breakfast,
Apache
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:51:16 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Quick Question - AtA spoiler
At 12:13 PM 5/12/96 -0400, Lisa wrote:
>Actually, if you go back and rewatch that episode, I think Richard
>flares up and disappears because Nick has pushed him into the
>sunlight that is streaming through the window.
>
Really? I seem to remember that feeling too, but then I'm not sure. I'll
take a look right now...oh, the pain of having to watch FK again...
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:54:19 -0400
From: Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
Oh, my... Where to start?
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......> wrote:
>>First of all.... Wow. If the show must be cancelled, what a last hurrah
we're having.
After watching this
episode, anyone's got to admit to Cousinly tendencies<<
ANYONE ELSE wish THIS was the season finale???
And you're reading this here first - I, Marcia Tucker of the Original Dark
Knightiehood, am declaring Cousinly tendencies (the thud you hear is
Michelle Cox hitting the floor). And place me squarely in the Unnamed camp!
I was already there, however, especially since "The Games Vampires Play".
Ironic that I just finished "The Instrument", my story featuring Nick and LC
(okay, it's for JADFE) in my Black Velvet universe. To be posted anyday now!
Well, Light Cousinly tendencies, maybe. Unnamed Faction for sure.
I KNEW there was more to LaCroix than the overall pronouncement (re Nat in
"Francesca") that he was "evil". Yeah, right. Hurt, betrayed, in pain so
bad that you cause so much pain in others even to tormenting the one you love
most is NOT EVIL.
God, I loved this episode!!! I had to watch the tag over and over... I will
never forget the look of shock on Nick's face when LC says "I may say a
prayer". Like Nick had never seen LC before! WOWOWOWOW! This may be my
favorite!
I've read a lot of the other comments on this ep and don't want to repeat
with Me-toos, but I admit to being as taken with this ep as so many others.
Did anyone else think Nick looked particularly wonderful? Or simply was
wonderful? Nick holding LC and yelling "NO!" at him when LC wanted to go to
pathetic, dying Divia - oh, wow!
Oh, and the acting, direction, music, etc. etc. was so incredible - I hope
we're talking Geminis here! I can't believe anything topping this for sheer
gripping emotion! (Okay, I'll admit the Azure scene in BMV was a topper, but
this is its equal IMO.)
I haven't posted this to FORKNI-L yet, but I have been unable to get ahold of
Jon Cassar about coming to the AOL FK chat to discuss this episode with us
(and receive all the praise he is due!).
I'm bouncing as much as the rest of you and I'm thinking that for me, THIS
was the final episode of the season. I have an idea of what will be done in
the last ep, and I far prefer this ending - Nick and LC having gone full
circle from trying to destroy one another to this unbelievably tender tag.
Oh, WHY couldn't it have ended there?
Well, you know how this Immortal Beloved is going to care about what happens
to the N&N relationship in Last Knight, right?
:::still tingling from the emotional impact of AtA:::
Marcia Tucker
scfimarci@a.......
Dark Knightie / Unnamed / Immortal Beloved / Light Cousin
Writing for the Immortal Beloveds/Valentines because someone has to
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:59:34 -0400
From: Melanie Moser <moser@c.......>
Subject: TV Guide Listing "Last Knight"
(I suppose this is a mini-spoiler, depending on how little you like
to know about an episode beforehand).
Here's the TV Guide listing for "Last Knight" from the web.
URL: http://www.iguide.com/tv/tvguide/programs/11/004wx73r.sml
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Forever Knight
Crime Drama
The loss of a close friend forces Nick to evaluate his relationship
with Natalie (Catherine Disher), and prompts him to make a decision
that will have permanent implications. Reese: Blu Mankuma.
Dawkins: Roger Honeywell. Nick: Geraint Wyn Davies. Tracy: Lisa Ryder.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I can't believe it's ending... if there's water marks on this
message, it's only my tears.... :-(
Mel Moser
N&NPacker, moser@c.......
Check out my Forever Knight Fan Fiction page at:
http://www.clark.net/pub/moser/fkfanfic.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 11:58:54 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
On Sun, 12 May 1996, Carrie Krumtum wrote:
> I don't get the scene in the car when Tracy pronounces her understanding of
> the 'evil' in Vachon. Where did that come from?
Like the game of Name the Serial Killer in the beginning, it was thrown
in to make it very clear that the topic of our show today, boys and
girls, is evil -- Can you say "evil?" I knew you could. I loved the
episode (loved, loved, loved!), but I did think they flung that term
about a little heavy-handedly. There really was no immediate rationale
for the line. She wasn't concerned about the evil issue when he
threatened to kill her in BB, when he killed Vudu, when he almost bit her
in Fever. Suddenly he shows up quite pleasantly to talk to her in the
parking lot, and she goes off on the moral tangent. I thought that was a
weak point of the script. We're bright enough to figure out that we're
talking about an evil little girl here without having it paralleled in
every other relationship in the episode.
> I understand her thinking that there is a simularity between Vachon and
> LaCriox, but why not Nick? She said in MBiaV that Nick is like Vachon in a
> lot of ways, yet she had never made the leap to vampire with Nick, and did
> almost instantly with LaCroix.
Well, you've got to admit that LaCroix was *not* acting mortal in the
interrogation room. His behavior is just screaming, "I am not like
you!" Nick doesn't sit around with that supernatural-chum arrogance (cf.
Vachon's "Because I can"). He acts the most mortal of any vamp we've
seen, except Serena, I suppose.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:07:59 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
On Sun, 12 May 1996, Dotti Rhodes wrote:
> I do want to answer (was it Bonnie) who seemed so upset with Nick's having
> Tracy forget that Vachon died. Do you really think it would be easier for
> her to sleep nights with the memory of Vachon impaling himself on the stake
That's not the point. It's her LIFE Nick's presuming to screw
around with. What if Lacroix decided it would be better for Nick not to
remember that painful little betrayal of Janette's wishes in 'Human
Factor'? Wouldn't Nick rather "remember" that Janette asked for it, and
he reluctantly granted her wish? But that ain't reality.
It was a dirty trick when Spock did it to Captain Kirk in 1967,
and it's a dirty trick now. Your life is your life, all you have, and it
is arrogant presumption for anyone to tinker with it, especially to smooth
over the hard bits. It's not about how fast you get to sleep or whether
you cry a little less.
Incidentally, addressing the point directly, I think it would be
easier for her to accept that he died. Otherwise, there's the issue of
why he didn't care enough about her to stick around. But that's just my
opinion.
> in her hands? I don't think so. She cared about him, and made the statement
> that she really didn't think they would work because the "evil" she felt in
> him scared her, so it's not as if she would feel hurt for long that he left.
One of the fun things about Ashes is that you can read that scene
both ways -- literal truth, or the-lady-doth-protest-too-much. Likewise,
you can read Vachon's reaction as "*What* relationship?" or as "Tracy,
you're wounding me to the quick." Given the easy way she reaches to hold
him close in the next scene they have together, not to mention given the
fact that I'm close to 100,000 words into fanfic since mid-December, I
know what *my* preferred reading is <g>.
> I'm sure if he was going to bother to plant that it was time for Vachon to
> move on, he would plant that they had a fitting farwell so there would be
> closure. I know if I cared for someone at all, I wouldn't want to remember
> them dying in front me for any reason, and I would welcome being made to
> forget.
Okay, we just disagree on this one.
It's the same theory I have for funeral homes. The last memory I
> want of a person is a happy one, when they were alive, not looking at them
> laid out unnaturally in a coffin. Some folks say it's necessary for some
> kind of "closure",
Hmm. I don't feel any need to see the body, but funerals are
closure and can have an emotional grandeur that helps you work through
the loss. You don't say one way or the other if you prefer to skip
funerals, but I know some people do.
For me, a funeral helps you accept the loss as real. (see generally,
my denial post, supra -- <g> -- ). One of the awful things about loss is
you keep noticing it -- "want to tell this joke to K---, oh damn I can't
- oh damn oh damn" -- just in little ways like that. A funeral hammers
it in pretty deep, helps you *realize* what's true.
Apache
HELP SAVE REAL LIFE!
Visit http:/aol.members.com/FuzzNatLamb/SaveRealLife.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:13:45 -0500
From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject: "Cheezy rationals" (was: Apaches's NO-NO header!)
[Guys! No spoilers in the Header... Apache was just too stressed to
remember... and can you blame her? <sniff>)
> At last.. three months after finding out They Killed Him, I have
>a good reason for going into permanent denial:
She then goes on to call this a "cheesy rationale"... I disagree...
(it also matches what we came up with here... works for me! ;-)
>bitten by Divia the Demon Daughter with Poison Blood. Her bite induces
>some kind of death-dealing madness in each of them, but with different
I was under the impression the "death-dealing madness" was simply a psychic
overload caused by a few very vivid memories and almost 2000 years of carefully
cultivated and nurtured rage, hatred, and lust for revenge.
Depending on the age of the attackee as to how much of an overload 2000 years
of brooding in the dark actually was. ;-)
>Although Vachon is not "far too old and powerful," he's way too gorgeous
>and sexy, and that's a perfectly adequate reason for immortality.
o.k... I was managing not to _completely_ ROTFLMAO...until this part... <g>
>impales himself on the handy stake Tracy is holding (and why did he have a
>nicely sharpened stake in his home, one wonders? Stole it off the Century
Easy. After 400 years of being ready for the Inca to catch him, he simply
hasn't gotten around to clearing it out.
> Which means anybody in that park when he gets enough better to
>return to consciousness and climb out of the ground is in Big Trouble <g>.
(Apache... on my umpteenth circle holding pattern over O'Hare I came up with a
great way to bring him (and screed) back for the next war.
Contact me for details and rates. <vwg>)
>don't want to work with Ben Bass again. And if I were Ben Bass, I'd want
>to mangle Nigel for the "guitar" shot. But that's what fans are for....
Hmmm? what was wrong with it?
Dianne@Diane E.'s ;-)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:14:40 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
At 12:54 PM 5/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
> Did anyone else think Nick looked particularly wonderful? Or simply was
wonderful? Nick holding LC and yelling "NO!" at him when LC wanted to go to
>pathetic, dying Divia - oh, wow!
Well, that goes without saying for me, you know I thought he looked
incredibly wonderful. Ger's face read so many emotions as he saw LaCroix in
a light he had never, ever seen--and yet so desperately wanted. His love
for LaCroix came crashing thru whatever barriers there were left, open for
all to see, and vice versa.
As he tried to comfort Natalie, after seeing the anguish Tracy was going
thru, and knowing Nat's would be worse, and yet, not even fighting Divia.
Why do you suppose he was so "accepting" of the death Divia was about to
give him? DId he already feel he could survive the attack....or was he just
not afraid to die?
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:14:07 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Spoiler: AtA and speculation regarding LK
On Sun, 12 May 1996, Melanie Moser wrote:
> I can't believe it's ending... if there's water marks on this
> message, it's only my tears.... :-(
Gosh, I know. It feels like... a death. No more new episodes. No more
spoilers. No more Ger and Cath and Nigel. Thank God for fanfic.
Mere speculation follows: I had the horrible idea in the shower this
morning that Nick's request of LC at the end of AtA might foreshadow
developments in LK. We've already seen that TPTB think that LC *can*
hypnotize Nat. What if Nick makes one of his horribly patronizing "This
is for your own good" decisions and thinks he has to make Nat forget what
they almost/sort of/quasi had? That annoyed me in reference to Tracy:
Who is Nick to decide what she would want to remember or not? And Tracy
only knew Vachon for less than a year. He wouldn't dare make Nat
forget. I'd be sick. I'd throw things at the TV. I'd track down TPTB
and personally stake each and every one of them. (Yeah, I know they're
not real vampires, but that's gotta be just as fatal for mortals --
moreso in some cases.) If they do that, then I agree with Marcia that
AtA should have been the last episode. Nat's a big girl and should be
allowed mental autonomy.
Yeah, I know I'm posting more now than I have in the last several months
altogether. But... but... it's almost over.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:50:17 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: "Cheezy rationals" (was: Apaches's NO-NO header!)
On Sun, 12 May 1996, Dianne la Merc at D Echelbarger wrote:
> [Guys! No spoilers in the Header... Apache was just too stressed to
> remember... and can you blame her? <sniff>)
>
So right. Humble apologies all around. And I can't believe a
Merc said a nice thing like "too stressed" instead of the more plausible
"too stupid" without being bribed beforehand <g>.
Apache
rapidly sending Godiva to Dianne post-hoc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:50:39 -0400
From: Pat Witham <catspaw@m.......>
Subject: ASHES TO ASHES
Question #1: Is LaCroix's disgust and shock at Divia's attempt to seduce him
appropriate for their historic time? I've forgotten a lot of my college days,
but wouldn't that behavior (incest, to us) be a lot less shocking to them?
Question #2: Is Divia's rejection and murder of her master an early example
of the feminist movement, since she says she did it because he wanted to
control her?
Question #3: I think this may have been addressed before on the lists, but
when did LaCroix get converted to Christianity? He was mortal in pre-Christian
Roman and apparently his vampiric ancestry, through Divia, came from Egyptian
mythology.
BTW, I loved the episode and think the actress who played Divia is incredible.
Pat Witham (catspaw@c.......)
Knightie and D.O.B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:51:34 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes: Dear Divia....
... Happy Mother's Day.
Love, Lucius
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:01:41 EDT
From: Sonja Launspach <T720026@u.......>
Subject: ashes to ashes
Well they didit again, my wonderful syndie cut the tag. I hate it when
they do that, I mean here you are waiting to see how they are going to tie
up all the loose ends and you get In concert and the rolling stones. Youmay
be sure the stationwill hear about this, but this also means that I am
reduced to begging some kind soul to email me and tell me what happened
in the tag, PLease, please
I only hope that they don't do it next week too since this is the second
week in a row
Sonja
t720026@u.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:09:57 -0500
From: "Stormsinger/J.S. Levin" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
I watched it last night. Went to bed in shock. My dreams were, to say the
least, chaotic. Got up again this morning and watched it again. Before
Tea. I am wrung out, strung out, and hung out to dry. Gods.
I know a lot of this has been said before -- I've read all the spoilers
before writing my own. But repetition for emphasis is not redundancy.
LaCroix and Nick have moved to a new plane of existence -- one even Natalie
recognizes and accepts. No matter what happens, no matter whether we decide
it is canon or apochrypha or nightmare, they are not the same black and
white sculptures they started out as. Lovely.
Vachon. This was rushed. I'm not clear as to *why* (besides his
non-healing wounds) Vachon is so sure that Divia's attack is killing him.
Driving him insane, yes; he's got sensory overload big time. But where did
*that* come from? "All the killing," he says. Whose? Divia's 20 years or
so before she was tossed into the sarcophagus? His own? Or (my choice),
thru Divia, the killings of all the vampires to whom Divia has a "blood"
relationship.
I think perhaps that Divia basically survived the last 2000 years by hooking
solidly into LaCroix's mind, and through him to his children. He might not
(having been a young vampire when it occurred) notice this himself, and over
the centuries, that "extra awareness" became *normal* to him -- so much that
perhaps Nick's lack of that awareness is part of what annoys LC.
For Divia, this would not only stave off sensory deprivation, but would give
her the opportunity to pick up some of the knowledge she obviously has. And
yet, the impressions from someone else's mind are *not* the same as
first-hand experience, as she notes to LaCroix in their confrontation.
Poor Vachon! He has over two thousand years of experience and emotion
pouring into him *all at once*. No wonder he thought death was better.
I agree, BTW, with Apache. Vachon's not out of it permanently. Neither is
Screed. Stay tuned on FKFIC or the Vachon Loop for further details.
Anyway, I'm just shook. Everybody else is being real eloquent. I'll
probably have some responses.
This is, in a way, almost a "finger" at TPTB. Hey guys -- this is what it
could have been *every* week, if you'd let us! This is what it *still*
could be, if you'd let us.
There is more to life, even on TV, than simply selling soap.
Storm
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
FOREVER KNIGHT:SciFi Channel Mon, 7 & 11 pmCT Let 'em know we're watching!
If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters"
are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:11:05 CDT
From: "OREL, SARA" <FA55@n.......>
Subject: spoiler: ashes to ashes
It seems no one has commented on how the cop show WAS the vampire
mystery this week (and I am still wondering how that body with no killer
was going to be closed to Reece's satisfaction!)(the killer was almost
2000 years old, and Lacroix burned her body out at the dump -- what a
funeral pyre!! good Roman way of dealing with it -- he IS going to
scatter the ashes, isn't he?). I liked the story very much, although I
would have liked to know how they dealt with killing of Divia's
father...(master)
And that brings me to the parts I loved and didn't love about this
show (still one of my favourites of the season, ranking very close to
Fever, both wonderful Lacroix episodes). The Arabic was nice, seemingly
nicely and appropriately accented (but it certainly didn't look as
though that was a tomb in the Valley of the Kings -- decoration worked
as a cross between 18th and 19th Dynasty style(but what an earth was a
chariot scene doing in a tomb?????) but the coffins struck me as wrong
-- compare them to the style of Tutankhamen's sarcophagus -- this is not
late 18th Dynasty style, nor does it fit from what I can remember of the
show -- could look through my coffin books and check, but probly isn't
worth it. I think if they do an Egyptian episode, they could call the
ROM and send a set/prop designer to do an hour or two of research there
(or I could have put them in touch with a FK fan there who would have done it
happily for them... sigh). But my major problem with it is those silly
costumes the two wore when they were in the tomb. Excuse me? This is
ca. 100 C.E. and people do not wear NK costumes in Egypt, at all!!!!!
They wore very Greek-looking or Roman clothes, and these would have
looked absurd... grrrr..... Just some words from your resident
Egyptologist, who has done too much work on Roman Egypt.
Anyway, I loved Nigel in this. He is just amazing. Honestly, I
think he and CD seem to have the best grasp of their characters. I like
GWD but sometimes I feel as if something he says is not too convincing.
But NB and CD seem to have the best grasp of who they are in character,
and I find it difficult to see these characters they play here when I
see them in other things. If I had to pick a faction other than merc,
it would be Valentines, because I do love these two together, and I do
not have the courage to be a true cousin, not an easy faction to leave
if you change your mind. But Nigel is just amazing, playing someone so
old,m and even when he plays himself as a young vampire, his stance is
different from now, he seems as though he has aged. I would be happy to
have Forever Lacroix, you know. I am sure he would gather an
interesting cast of characters around him wherever he went.
One other thought about the show -- do you suppose the reason Nick
recovered is because cow blood had the power to offset the evil in
Divia's attack? Cows are holy in places. Nick would have to replace
the blood somehow, and all he would have is cow blood to drink. Perhaps
the cow blood succeeded where human blood would not?
I just assumed that Divia could find the cameo in Lacroix's
possessions and put it in the box to frighten him. It does explain why
he had the cameo to begin with, doesn't it?
I am still please tremendously with the episode.
In glee, I remain mercenarily yours,
Sara Orel
FA55%nemomus@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:12:32 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
> On Sun, 12 May 1996, MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR wrote:
>
> [Let me add, that I think we can resurrect everyone except Divia and
> Urse---I believe the usual Metro Coroner disposal method is incineration]
Gee, and here I was thinking it was donation to medical schools
for Anatomy classes... <g>. Just think of the lucky first-year med
students who'd get to tackle Ursie instead of some hapless geezer....
and then Ursie could tackle them <g>.
Ap.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:26:47 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious
On Sun, 12 May 1996, D Echelbarger wrote:
> Bonnie asked:
> >The scene where Vachon is kneeling down in front of Tracy as she holds a
> >stake to his heart -- this was so familiar, like I have seen the pose in a
> >painting or something.
Yeah, it's a classic -- and Ben Bass rode the pose for all it was
worth, with that lingering hand that stayed with the stake as Tracy
backed off and then was held out to beckon/plead for an instant -- very
pretty smidgen of classical acting that would be over the top in anything
but Shakespeare, snuck into the vampire cop show.
>
> I call it the "Garden of Gesthemane" pose, myself. <g> With Vachon's big brown
> eyes raised and that soulful look upward, it's almost an exact duplicate of the
> pose classic Christian religious art always puts Christ in when he's having
> doubts in the garden. :)
What I liked about this is that Vachon is trusting Tracy to kill
him. You need a friend of deep and stern character (or Dr. Kevorkian) to
do this, and Vachon's whole body language at this point is saying he
trusts Tracy *that much.* Again, Bass plays it as an adolescent Romeo, and
Lisa Ryder as a naturalistic actor, which makes her emotional reaction --
I can't go through with this -- very truthful. Liked it a lot, from both
of them.
There is something missing from the beginning of the scene, the
lead-up to where Vachon says "You have to do it." You can just feel
that there's an explanation there: I'm going mad, I'm afraid I'm going
to turn into a ravening beast, the pain is terrible.... anyone got a
script, please?
Ap.
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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:28:00 -0500
From: "Stormsinger/J.S. Levin" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject: Re: ASHES TO ASHES
Pat Witham (catspaw@c.......) asked:
>Question #1: Is LaCroix's disgust and shock at Divia's attempt to seduce him
>appropriate for their historic time? I've forgotten a lot of my college days,
>but wouldn't that behavior (incest, to us) be a lot less shocking to them?
Oh, no. Incest was an *unforgivable* to the Romans; the institutionalized
incest of the Egyptians really disgusted them. And remember that Oedipus
(who is Greek, I know, but the Romans got alot of their attitudes and morals
from the Greeks) was considered justly condemned to torment for having lain
with his mother -- EVEN THOUGH he *didn't* know the relationship at the time!
Not that it wasn't *practiced*, mind you, same as today. And probably a
large part of what revolted LaCroix was the fact that it was Divia, his
darling, who was *suggesting* it to him. If it had "happened", without
discussion, I'll bet he could have managed.
>Question #2: Is Divia's rejection and murder of her master an early example
>of the feminist movement, since she says she did it because he wanted to
>control her?
No, simply that Divia found herself in possession of so much power that she,
personally, was not going to let anyone tie her to their standards.
>Question #3: I think this may have been addressed before on the lists, but
>when did LaCroix get converted to Christianity? He was mortal in pre-Christian
>Roman and apparently his vampiric ancestry, through Divia, came from Egyptian
>mythology.
IMO, LaCroix didn't get "converted" to Christianity. As the Christian
symbols of good and light replaced the pagan ones, I believe he developed
the reaction to them that we see (my theory on this is that so-called "holy
symbols" act like pipelines for psychic energy. Email me if you want
details.) Also, as a philosophical type, he read and was perhaps influenced
by the philosophical writings of the Christians, especially on concepts
close to his heart, like good and evil and damnation and redemption.
Storm
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
FOREVER KNIGHT:SciFi Channel Mon, 7 & 11 pmCT Let 'em know we're watching!
If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters"
are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:58:16 -0400
From: Pat Witham <catspaw@m.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes: Dear Divia....
> ... Happy Mother's Day.
>
>
>Love, Lucius
>.-
>
>
Shouldn't this have gone on the fiction list, heh, heh? Pat W.
Knightie and D.O.B.
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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:36:35 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: TV Guide Listing "Last Knight"
Mel wrote:
S
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P
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>The loss of a close friend forces Nick to evaluate his relationship
>with Natalie (Catherine Disher), and prompts him to make a decision
>that will have permanent implications. Reese: Blu Mankuma.
>Dawkins: Roger Honeywell. Nick: Geraint Wyn Davies. Tracy: Lisa Ryder.
My local TV "chronilog" says, and I'm quoting from memory but the wording is
pretty close, "Nick has to choose between immortality and true love with
Natalie."
My little Cousinly/Unnamed Faction heart is NOT hoping for one of those
options, and I think we ALL know what it is!! ;)
Wicked Cousin Tippi
Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction
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