FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 14
May 7-May 9, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 14
TOPICS:
SPOILER: Francesca, New Points (7)
SPOILER: Francesca, Evil
Sharing Blood (2)
SPOILER: Francesca
SPOILERS: Francesca (5)
SPOILER: Francesca's Weapons
Spoiler: Francesca
SPOILER: Francesca/LaCroix
SPOILER: Francesca - Chevalier & bad? humor (2)
FKX: Francesca
SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes and Quote List
SPOILER: Francesca - Chevalier
SPOILER: Ashes To Ashes (long)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 19:13:37 -0700
From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
> Take Gordon Fuller, the reporter. (HL people: remind you of first-season's
> Ricki?) This man is a little part of Tracy's life, outside the episodes we've
> been given. That casual reference to having dated him *once* is worth a
> hundred shots of Tracy at her desk in the precinct.
Thing one: Randi was smarter that this guy, really she was. More
annoying possibly, but definitely brighter. And I too liked the
interplay with Tracy having dated him literally only once. Nick looked
amused as well as respectful when she said that too.
> when Nick bursts through the door in Frank's room, and immediately recalls
> bursting through the door into Francesca's.
This sequence was so smooth I almost missed it the first time I saw the
episode. The look on his face when he recognised the room was priceless.
> about Tracy, I believe that it is more likely that Frank was possessed by
> Francesca than being her reincarnate.
I think I'm going to step in here and disagree with you on this one.
Just because they've never explored it before, doesn't mean it's not
there. Reincarnation may not be easily accepted in Western society, but
that doesn't make it less available. Hell, possession isn't exactly
accepted in western society any longer either, is it?
Just because, as Amy mentions later, Frank is only now discovering his
past life, doesn't mean it wasn't there before. It just means something
might have occurred recently to render it available to him in this life.
> *To let them know yours.*
This is prophetic. And I'm not saying any more.
> Oh, does anyone want me to hypothesize on how this all ties in with HF? <g>
Let's talk about this in relation to HF, sure. I think Nick's discussion
of sharing thoughts that way goes a long way to explaining the pull he
had to Janette, even when he was trying harder (early in the first season
anyway) to stay clear of the vampire world altogether.
It would also explain why their relationship has always been, in spite of
differing world views, far more balanced and equal than any relationship
Nick has with anyone else. I mean, they know each other in a way more
intimate than any of us can imagine, and they *accept* each other pretty
much unconditionally too.
Cynthia, another party member
Cynthia Hoffman/choff@v.......
Raven ** IB ** MBDtK
We cater to the occasional fetishist
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:20:35 -0500
From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, Evil
John said:
>Vachon appears to have been a simple soldier, not nobly born. My
Sorry, but my History of Mexico (yes, I know he was in Peru!) teacher would
never forgive me if I didn't correct that one. Most, if not all, of the
Conquistadors who came to the New World were the younger sons of nobility, out
to carve themselves their own little kingdoms in the new land. So it's likely
Vachon was the younger son of a (probably) Castillian family, and raised with
all the assumptions of rank, privelege and religious intolerance common for his
period. He very likely witnessed the excesses of the Inquisition first-hand,
for example.
That said, I essentially agree with your take on his view of vampirism. After
all, why carve out a kingdom when you aren't going to have any (mortal)
children to pass it on to? Why not just enjoy? :)
>So all in all, I think it means that whatever kind of person you are,
>vampirism merely gives you the means to be that person for a lot longer.
Now, if we could only get *Nick* to see that. <g>
Diane E
# D Echelbarger gryphon@e....... #
# WWW HomePage: http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ #
# "Look, I know you're a figment of my imagination, #
# but you have to stop sneaking up on me!" N. Lambert #
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:08:46 -0400
From: Pat Witham <catspaw@m.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
>It's too bad Gillian was tied to Highlander for so much of the time, can you
>imagine what the third season would have been like if she had written 90% of
>the scripts. Oh mama!!
>
>Dotti R
>Knightie 4-Ever
>dottir@w.......
>.-
From something she said at the chat last night, I jumped to the conclusion that
if Gillian had been writing the scripts, we would have finally gotten Ger out
of some of those clothes.
Knightie and D.O.B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:23:58 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
At 11:08 PM 5/7/96 -0400, you wrote:
>if Gillian had been writing the scripts, we would have finally gotten Ger
>out of some of those clothes.
Oh man, don't tell me stuff like that when we can't do anything about it
now???!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:37:19 -0400
From: Susan Honig <Susankenn@a.......>
Subject: Sharing Blood
Marge wrote that she asked a question at the chat with GH about if mortals
get the memories of the vampires biting them.
My question -If mortals do not get the blood how could they get the memories.
I was under the impression that the line refered to vampire to vampire
transfer rather than mortal to vampire transfer.
Gillian other reference that it does happen later in the season must be
looked at once we see the remaining episodes.
Sue
susankenn@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:37:17 -0400
From: Susan Honig <Susankenn@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
Hi
A bunch of listmembers have been asking how Nick knew where Frank was.
We asked that question to Gillian on Monday's chat and she said - let me
slide on that one.
She herself felt that part was a little contrived.
Sue
susankenn@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:48:18 -0400
From: Roxanne Piccen <RoxanneP@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
On Mon, 6 May 1996, Angie wrote:
> And what about vampires that are brought over old who wear dentures? I
> mean this as a serious questions folks.
When they vamp out, their fangs push the dentures out and the teeth sail
through the air. When the vampires return to their normal state, they have
no teeth and must retrieve the dentures from wherever they left them.
Dentist to patient who keeps coming in with mangled dentures:
"What have you done to them now? This is the fourth set I've made for
you in the last six months. You have to treat them gently, you know.
And, for God's sake, try some more brushing action. They're filthy. You'd
think they'd been lying in the dirt somewhere."
Seriously, I think when they're brought across anything wrong with them
physically would be corrected. If Jody can regain her vision in BF, a new
set of permanent choppers shouldn't be a problem.
Moving on to a spoiler subject: I feel obliged to defend Tracy (did I say
that?) regarding Chevalier (sp?). I don't know French and didn't know that
it meant knight until I read the list. So it is possible for her not to make
the connection to Nick based on the name. BTW, wasn't that name said
on the tape in Reese's office? If so, then Reese didn't make the connection
either. Of course, he doesn't believe in vampires, so he wouldn't.
I also didn't expect Tracy to be the musician in a past life. I thought her
feelings about the case had to do with Vachon and her becoming more
comfortable with vampires and the vampire lifestyle. Tracy and Vachon
did look *awfully* cute in their scenes together, sprawling on the sofa,
sipping their respective drinks. As someone else said, they've become
much more at ease with each other.
Roxanne -----> who's apparently "perking" along tonight
RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work)
*****************************************************************************
Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:41:36 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
Amy wrote:
:Next point, it struck me that Nick went for Francesca's wrist when she woke
:him up. This isn't something we've seen very often, is it?
You mentioned NIQ and master's blood, but in Black Buddha Claire offered
Nick her wrist and Nick didn't turn her down. (She wasn't a vampire
either.) It seemed, however, that Nick started for something other than her
wrist and was deflected aside. (Of course, I could go see it again. Wouldn't
mind doing so either. ;)
:possession is already FK canon, while reincarnation is new, and secondly from
:the fact that the therapist said that these strange feelings had been
:bothering Frank for only "three months" -- that this was all quite alien to
:him, and to how he perceived, and wished to perceive, himself.
3 months, huh. How long prior to this episode did Dead of Night take place.
Maybe he was possessed by one of those angry spirits who were after Nick and
she thought someone named Frank would be a good choice.
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:16:01 -0400
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@f.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Francesca's Weapons
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| !!! W A R N I N G !!! S P O I L E R !!! W A R N I N G !!! |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| S | | S |
| | | |
| P | The following message contains information concerning | P |
| | | |
| O | the plot of "FRANCESCA", an episode of the Forever Knight | O |
| | | |
| I | television series. | I |
| | | |
| L | If you have not yet seen the show, and do not wish to | L |
| | | |
| E | know the plot in advance, stop reading this message NOW! | E |
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Who says spoiler space has to be dull? ;^]=
Someone (I'm on digest, so I can't remember who) mentioned that Frank
had some of Francesca's old weapons on his wall. Now if he has only been
gender confused for three months, could his acquisition of these weapons
have triggered the reincarnation? Perhaps he got these souvenirs from a
little shop in Chicago called "Vendredi Antiques." Or maybe Frank was
Francesca's direct descendant from her breathing days, and her spirit
was trapped in the sword until it was reclaimed by one of her bloodline
(as happened to a certain mutant werewolf's viking ancestor who was
confined to his battle axe).
Although I only managed to see the first half of the episode (**** WKBW
anyway), what I did see impressed me quite a bit. However, I am a bit
confused about what happened in the final battle (which I've only heard
about here). Were the weapons used in the battle? Did I manage to miss
Nick in Knightly combat? Could someone PLEASE sent me the details about
what happened in the last half of the show? All these hints are starting
to drive me CRAZY (and that's a short enough trip at the best of times)!
Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <ag775@f.......>
Home Page: http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ag775/home.html
(BTW, Is anyone having a LK party in Hamilton?)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:39:23 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Sharing Blood
>Gillian other reference that it does happen later in the season must be
>looked at once we see the remaining episodes.
Please, if anyone wants to mention spoiler information about episodes
that have *not* aired yet, could you put some warning in the subject
line? (Something like: SPOILERS: upcoming eps or SPOILERS: Ashes to
Ashes or SPOILERS: Last Knight added in the subject line.) Some of
us don't want to be spoiled and are trying to avoid being spoiled.
I have a feeling this may be a bigger issue with Ashes to Ashes since
I've heard that it's supposed to be connected to Last Knight (I don't
know if that's true or not, and I don't want to know). I hope people
will confine their comments about AtA to discussing AtA and put any
speculations about how it relates to LK in a separate post with a
suitable warning.
But please do consider whether comments such as the above quoted one
are spoilers that should have some sort of warning so that those of
us who want to avoid getting spoiled on the rest of the season can
avoid reading such things. Thanks.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:24:24 -0700
From: Angie <alasher@e.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
>Seriously, I think when they're brought across anything wrong with them
>physically would be corrected. If Jody can regain her vision in BF, a new
>set of permanent choppers shouldn't be a problem.
I am glad someone reguarded this question, I have always wondered? As if I
had a life ya know?
>Moving on to a spoiler subject: I feel obliged to defend Tracy (did I say
>that?) regarding Chevalier (sp?). I don't know French and didn't know that
>it meant knight until I read the list. So it is possible for her not to make
But Roxanne, we are talking about a cop in Canada, where a large segment of
the population speak French! You would think that most Canadians would
*have* to know French, and more so the civil servents!
Lasher
=====================
@-->-'- http://home.earthlink.net/~alasher
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/5069 --<-'-@
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 07:02:24 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
You know what else I really liked (after the fourth watching this morning)
when in the flashback LaCroix introduces the two and Nick kisses her hand.
That slow way he kissed it and very slowly removed his lips from her hand
while looking directly into her eyes....boy, if that wasn't hot....
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 07:13:04 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
At 11:24 PM 5/7/96 -0700, Lasher wrote:
>You would think that most Canadians would
>*have* to know French, and more so the civil servents!
>
This is true, but you don't usually try to figure out the meaning of
someone's name when you hear it. You generally just accept it as you hear it
and keep going. Besides, it's loke Superman vs. Clark Kent and those silly
glasses - if you're not looking for something familiar you're not going to
see it.
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 04:15:36 -0800
From: Dann Lunsford <dann@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
In <199605080625.XAA13186@n.......>, on 05/07/96 at 11:24 PM,
Angie <alasher@e.......> said:
>>Moving on to a spoiler subject: I feel obliged to defend Tracy (did I sa
>>that?) regarding Chevalier (sp?). I don't know French and didn't know th
>>it meant knight until I read the list. So it is possible for her not to=
>But Roxanne, we are talking about a cop in Canada, where a large segment
>of the population speak French!
I started thinking about this and I think a different phenomenon is occurring.
How many people translate PROPER NOUNS in everyday life? Not many.
I heard Maurice Chevalier's name for *years*, but never made any connection
between his last name and the French for "knight". In a Spanish class I
had once, the instructor pointed out that, while "Miguel" might be a
tranlation of "Michael", it is nonetheless improper to call "Mike Smith"
"Miguel <insert whatever the translation for "smith' is (hey, it's been
*years*)>".
Thus Tracy is simply being a normal human being. *WE* out here in the
Real World (tm) are sensitive to anything connected to the principal of
the show, but the characters *in the show* would not be so sensitized.
To Tracy, "Nick Knight" and "Nicholas Chevalier" are two different names.
Now, Vachon is a different case. First, he's Spanish, and probably still
thinks in that language, for the most part, so he may be translating
automatically anyway. Second, he *is* sensitive to Knight, since he is
trying to avoid giving Tracy any clues as to Nick's secret, and is
therefore censoring himself when Tracy's around.
Just my $0.02 worth.
--
***********************************************************************
* Dann Lunsford * The only thing necessary for the triunph of evil *
* dann@g....... * is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero *
***********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 07:49:40 EDT
From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Francesca
I've finally seen it. These are very random reactions, since nearly
everything's been covered already.
My take on Nat's reaction as Nick explains about the psychic intimacy
involved in drinking someone's blood seems to be unusual. I thought the
way Ger played his lines was seductive, although I don't think it was
necessarily meant to register that way. After I found myself reacting
like Nat, to judge from CD's expression, I tried to figure out why. It
may have been a combination of the soft, intimate tone Ger used, plus
the fact that he was talking wistfully about all the things Nat wants
to share with Nick. Whatever it was, I don't think the way CD played
Nat's reaction necessarily meant that for a moment Nat wanted to be a
vampire -- I think it was her love and desire for Nick showing through.
I wonder whose idea those cages for the musicians were? They looked like
gibbet cages, the ones they put on the bodies of condemned felons so
that they could decay on the gallows as a grim warning without falling
to pieces on passersby. <g>
" ... one of your sisters, Nicholas." How many are there, besides
Francesca and Janette? My guess as to why LaCroix seems to have only
taken Janette and Nick to raise :) is based on something Nigel said
at a con once, that LaCroix had been in love with Janette when he
rescued her. I think, in his own way, LaCroix loves Janette and Nick
but not his others. Francesca strikes me as so self-sufficient that it
may have been her idea to be brought over. Maybe she approached LaCroix
as the Baroness approached Nick and Janette in If Looks Could Kill/To
Die For.
Now, excuse me, I've got to go scream -- why did we have to find out
how *good* Nigel is at directing three episodes before the end? This
is a psychological torment worthy of LaCroix.
Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:34:56 -0600
From: Deb Rowland <drowland@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca/LaCroix
On 5/7/96 Roxanne wrote:
>Frank should have recognized LaCroix's voice as the Nightcrawler,
>right? I briefly thought that maybe Frank (dressed as Francesca)
>might go to visit him at the Raven. What do you suppose LaCroix
>would have said if he'd seen Frank?
"Francesca my dear, I see the years have not been kind to you."
Deb Knightie with strong Cousinly urges
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:00:05 -0600
From: Deb Rowland <drowland@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
on 5/7/96 Dottie wrote:
>>if Gillian had been writing the scripts, we would have finally gotten Ger
>out of some of those clothes.
>
>
>Oh man, don't tell me stuff like that when we can't do anything about it
>now???!!
>
As happy as it would have made me to see a little ( a lot?) more of Ger, I
don't think it would have happened. In an interview Ger gave about the
"Shrew" he stated (my paraphrasing) that he didn't want to be the hunk of
the month and had "never even unbuttoned my top shirt button" in all the FK
episodes. Sigh.
On a different point from Francesca: In Reece's office, the therapist is
running Frank's tape and Nick is listening to him discuss the feelings in
the blood at the time of sudden death. NIck keeps leaning further and
further forward as Frank describes the "lust in the blood" and the "fear in
the blood". I got the distinct impression that the therapist was about 2
seconds away from becoming a major blackslide for Nick!
Deb Knightie with strong Cousinly urges
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:56:37 -0700
From: Roxanne Piccen <CHIRMP@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Francesca - Chevalier & bad? humor
On Tue, 7 May 1996, Angie wrote regarding my perky defense
of Tracy:
>But Roxanne, we are talking about a cop in Canada, where
>a large segment of the population speak French! You would
>think that most Canadians would *have* to know French, and
>more so the civil servants!
Alright, alright. So you caught me thinking like the
culturally deficient, English as first and only language,
American that I am. Didn't consider that most Canadians can
speak French when I wrote that. Now that you mention it, I
did have that information stored way in the back of my head,
so I guess I do have some culture after all. :-p However,
with all the French-speaking Canadians, French names have to
be somewhat common and I can't see bilingual people
automatically translating names and places from French into
English as a reflex action.
On Tue, 7 May 1996, Michelle wrote:
>Roxanne Wrote:
>>What do you suppose LaCroix would have said if he'd seen
>>Frank?
>"Nice lipstick. Wanna borrow my eyebrow pencil?"
ROTFLMAO! Hysterical! I never even thought of that. "Our
next class will be: Makeup Tips by LaCroix."
Roxanne
RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work)
*********************************************************
Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:20:09 -0300
From: Paula Hurley <dkknight@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca - Chevalier & bad? humor
You would
>>think that most Canadians would *have* to know French, and
>>more so the civil servants!
Umm, well, being Canadian myself, it is not necessary for everyday citizens
to know French. Although from grades 1 - 9 it is required that you take a
french course in school, and we now have french immersion where all your
courses are in French. However when I was in school, I made it to Grade
10(took it out of stupidity), found out that year that I am truly
unilingual!! I have been none the worse for wear. Actually most people on
this list know more french than I do.
However,
>with all the French-speaking Canadians, French names have to
>be somewhat common and I can't see bilingual people
>automatically translating names and places from French into
>English as a reflex action.
Actually this was my problem, your not supposed to translate french into
english, it gets you all screwed up...that's what I kept doing. First names
and last names are very rarely translated by normal people.
Paula
dkknight@a.......
Dark Knightie * Light Cousin * Valentine * Nick&NatPacker * Member of the CSS *
"It's ALWAYS about YOU!" - LaCroix(Can't Run, Can't Hide)
"If this is the cure, give me the disease!" - LaCroix(The Fix)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:47:43 -0700
From: Jennise Hall <jennise@t.......>
Subject: Re: FKX: Francesca
> My guess as to why LaCroix seems to have only taken Janette and Nick to raise
> :) is based on something Nigel said at a con once, that LaCroix had been in
> love with Janette when he rescued her. I think, in his own way, LaCroix loves
> Janette and Nick but not his others. Francesca strikes me as so
> self-sufficient that it may have been her idea to be brought over.
Interesting thought Lisa. Maybe LaCroix found Janette and Nick at points where
he was thinking about being a Daddy and any others were, oh, I don't know, just
people he thought would be cool vampires?
Ah, nevermind, that doesn't make much sense.
--
Jennise
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:50:55 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes and Quote List
First, a few comments.
Folks who are new to the show third season need not worry about what
they missed of Divia earlier. Parts of the AMPH flashbacks have been
incorporated into Ashes.
This episode is a Cousin's dream. Nigel worked every day of filming on
this episode, and LaCroix certainly had plenty of screen time here. :-)
In light of the recent list discussions about evil, this episode is
going to add fuel to the fire. The "E" word was used quite a lot, in
fact. I'm going to hold off on specifics until more people have seen
it. I will be very curious to see certain people's take on it.
As for the episode as a whole, despite a few (few?) major plot holes, I
loved it.
Here, to entice and amuse, are the quotes:
First defence against evil - open your damn eyes.
It's not what you think.
How disappointing.
I don't recall any of my staff reporting discovering a decapitated
corpse in the beer fridge.
Your associates are not without character.
He may not be guilty of this, but he sure as hell is guilty of
something.
Is LaCroix one of you?
Evil's a part of you. Maybe that's why we'd never work.
Oh, come on. There has got to be some kind of a rational explanation
for this.
Clearly I have a future as a sobering influence on the disenfranchised.
A child's innocence and purity knows no bounds. Neither does its
cruelty when evil comes upon its soul.
Do you know what it's like to be betrayed by your own child?
You're still listening to the show. I'm flattered.
Why did Divia save you?
She is my daughter. Now you understand why I never told you who my
Master is.
I had a choice. I could have done as Divia asked.
And despised yourself for it.
No more so than I do now. As a General in the Emperor's army, I
visited suffering upon my enemies in unspeakable ways. I've seen evil
on this Earth in all its forms. And yet, there was an evil in my own
child that I couldn't bear to look upon. An evil that she inherited
from me.
So we just write it off, huh? Shrug, and put it down to ghosts or
aliens or something? Come on, Nick. The truth is out there.
But maybe not in our jurisdiction.
You know why I'm here.
You've come to kill me.
Don't take it personally.
If I didn't know better, I'd almost say that you had grown, my dear.
In all the centuries I've had to think of you and what you might be
doing, I never imagined you would rise to the lofty position of
innkeeper.
You are a sick, depraved little girl. I always thought evil was a
finite entity until you showed me otherwise. Even I have my limits,
Divia.
Cousin LaurieCF
M+B+D+T+K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:50:01 -0700
From: "Andrew E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca - Chevalier
I can't speak for all Canadians, but I took French all the way to first
year college level...and then forgot a substantial amount of it as soon
as I didn't have to worry about being graded for it.
When I'm bored I can translate most of the French words on a
cereal box, but I'm not likely to notice things when not in translation mode.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:26:00 EDT
From: Maria Montalvo <maria@m.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
Deb Rowland <drowland@a.......> wrote:
>
>As happy as it would have made me to see a little ( a lot?) more of Ger, I
>don't think it would have happened. In an interview Ger gave about the
>"Shrew" he stated (my paraphrasing) that he didn't want to be the hunk of
>the month and had "never even unbuttoned my top shirt button" in all the FK
>episodes. Sigh.
Then he must have blocked the memory of posing nude in the flashback
of Dead Issue....
And Shrewthering reports indicate that it wasn't a stunt chest in
Night in Question.
In an aol chat, Ms. Horvath stated that she'd written a shirtless scene
for Nick in Francesca. Too bad it didn't happen.
Maria
maria@m.......
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Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 20:24:01 -0700
From: Valery King <kingv@u.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Ashes To Ashes (long)
I wanted to post some of my impressions of this episode before I go off
to the World Horror Con. Serious spoilers here; I'm not pulling any punches.
The following is kinda long. I hope it doesn't ramble all over too much.
I was warned a couple months ago that Vachon would buy the farm so I was
expecting it. That didn't make it any less painful, though. But it was
such a wonderful scene with Tracy. Lisa's best scene yet. I cried during
that scene as she was holding his lifeless body, telling him finally what
she hadn't the courage to reveal before, Nick standing above her unable to
comfort her. God, I want to bawl just thinking about it. More on this later.
[However, unrepentant apologist that I am, I've been comforting myself
with the following (and I know others have, too): there's still the
possibility that burying the body before it can be destroyed by the sun
*might* give the vampire virus a chance to fight off whatever it is in
Divia's blood that was killing Vachon, and regenerate him. Remember all
those Dracula films in the 60s and 70s? pull out the stake and pour blood
on him and he's baaaa-aaack. And Divia herself had her head chopped off,
for pity's sake, and still came back! It might even work someday for
Screed as well.]
We got a whole new view of Lacroix. Jeez, I just can't get over how *good*
an actor Nigel is! I simply loved the interrogation room scene (sooooo
strange to see Lacroix with Tracy and *Reese*!), and I especially loved
the holding cell scene! A salutory affect on the disenfranchsed! That was
great.
But his performance throughout was superb. The unease as he senses Divia's
presence; the sardonically raised brow when he finds Urs and Vachon on the
back room couch; hiding his concern from Nick as long as he can; the worry
and alarm caused by Divia's phone call; the flippant remarks about
decapitated corpses in the beer fridge that he makes to the police.
Finally opening up to Nick and revealing pretty much everything (that
could not have been easy for Lacroix to do, and Nigel conveyed this so
well!) I could just go on and on. What else can really be said, though? He's
wonderful.
But so is everyone else! Tracy's scenes with Vachon! Good lord, how
revealing. And how bitter that just as they're getting to the next step in
their tentative relationship, it's cut so suddenly short. Ben and Lisa
just seem to be getting really comfortable with the characters'
relationship that it's bitterly disappointing that we won't get any more.
I thought the scene where Vachon runs onto the stake (like a Roman
patrician falling on his sword) was shocking and effective. (I imagine he
had the stake from the time the Inca was still hunting him.) And how
poetic, that he gets the person who loves him best to dispatch him. What a
beautiful and twisted act of love for both. And then that aforementioned
scene as the heartbroken Tracy cradles the body and tells him her secret.
{sob!} And Nick looking down, the pain on his face as he longs to offer
comfort and cannot because of the situation.
Then we have Nick faced with a situation here that I don't think has ever
before occured. For the almost 800 years they've been dealing together,
Lacroix has probably never been as thrown off-balance as he has in this
episode. The parent-child analogy is very valid here; Nick was reacting in
much the same way as any child who has found him or herself in the
position of having to comfort and support their parent. And Lacroix has
never been this vulnerable before. Nick laying a comforting hand on
Lacroix's shoulder and telling him to call if there's anything Nick can
do! Oh, man. Yes, it was an immensely touching scene.
Parent/child relationships are twisted in new ways in the Divia/Lacroix
relationship. Divia, I think, was reacting the way children would when
possessed of absolute power. Remember that original Twilight Zone episode
with Billy Mumy as the six year old who made people who didn't do
*exactly* as he wanted "go away"? While Divia was powerless in Lacroix's
hands when they were mortal--remember than Roman fathers had absolute
power over their children, even illegitimate ones--she now gets to reverse
that role. She destroyed her own master because he wanted to use her as if
she were *still* a mortal, illegitimate, Roman female child, but now she
felt so powerful she refused to submit. I wonder just how surprised this
guy was when the creation he wanted to use destroyed him?
But there at the end, after Nick had staked her, she was just a child
again. I cried for her then, as she cried out for her father at her death.
The last scene, with the funeral pyre, was too too perfect. I'm glad that
Tracy will be allowed to remember her friend. I'm glad that Nick thought
about her and a pain she couldn't share with anyone, and found a way to
alleviate it somewhat without forcing her to forget all the friendship.
Sure, it is manipulative, but I think it was very kind.
God, it's such a *crime* that they've cancelled this show! These last two
episodes have been just incredible. And long as this post is, I've barely
scratched the surface of what I have to say about it. I haven't mentioned
Ger's and Cath's performances either, and they were wonderful too. And
Kathryn Long as Divia was incredible. Wonderful, wonderful direction from
Jon Cassar. And Fred did his usual superlative job on the music.
And to think they've had to do these last shows really fast and with less
money that ever before! There is real heavy-duty talent in this show.
I apologize for the style of this post, of mixing up comments about the
script with comments about the performances and production, but it's all
smooshed together in my mind. Can you tell this episode had a really
strong effect on me? :)
Regards,
Valery
kingv@u.......
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Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 00:47:19 -0400
From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
>Vachon is a different case.
One other difference. Nearly everyone thinks of Nick as "Nick" or
"Nicholas". Vachon is one of the few who calls him "Knight". Although why
someone who thinks in Spanish would translate something from French to
English eludes me.
And, as a light interlude, I include a brief monologue from the former
TV show "My World ... and Welcome To It" spoken by the lead character John
Monroe:
"In my life I've answered to 'John', 'Mr. Monroe', 'Sir', and even
'Hey, you'.
There was only one place where they called me simply 'Monroe', and they
stopped doing it _there_ when I made Corporal."
-- Ray
Nat Vamp Camp
Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight!
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