FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 10
May 6, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 10
TOPICS:
SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20) (7)
SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat (6)
Francesca--Bovine Implications
FKSPOILR Digest catch up: JD, Fran. comments
Francesca - Vampire Life <was -- A Few words (spoilers)>
SPOILERS: Francesca (3)
Thoughts/SPOILERS on Francesca (2)
Missing Episodes - Help (2)
SPOILER: Francesca
SPOILERS: Francesca(Nat) (5)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:06:27 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
Initial thoughts as I was watching Francesca:
Let's hear it for a red-haired vampire (they seem few)! Intriguing
and quite exciting (and seductive) teaser.
Random thought: Does Nick give Nat flowers that smell like her?
Why does Nat assume the killer is a her? Could be a guy in drag.
The killer is the black guy who was in the therapist's office, I
thought at the first commercial.
Sudden death sweetens the blood? Another reason to wonder why LC
didn't kill Hitler.
"My lover and my killer, Nicolas Chevalier." Hmmmm....
Tracy is having psychic dreams about being killed by Francesca?
I liked Nick's explaining what feeding on human blood was like for
him. Nice dialogue for Nick for once. Although I personally don't
like the Ricean flavor of that explanation, maybe it will give some of
you critics of Nick's resolve to be mortal again just how hard it has
to be and have been for Nick to give up feeding on human blood.
And how about Nat's reaction to Nick's explaining what feeding on
human blood is like for a vampire? She seemed to be getting off on
it (and I thought it was appropriate for Vachon's sexy guitar riff
music to be there enhancing that feeling)! From her reaction and
attentiveness, I don't think he'd ever told her what it was like in
such detail before. Explains why sipping might be hard too, I think.
Vachon tells Tracy about "special vintages" right away. Interesting
how he is more open with Tracy than Nick is with Nat.
400 years--Francesca was brought over in 1355? So where were Nick
and Janette when LC did this? And was she very agreeably trained by
LC or something? Because it seemed Nick had never met her before.
Anyone else feel like Gillian Horvath must have read some of Chelsea
Quinn Yarbro's St. Germain books? This has a St. Germain flavor
somehow.
Nick's being psychic again--he thought about Francesca early on and
before hearing about Frank's therapy.
Frank--Francesca (please! Can we be more blatant?).
Nick could play music from drinking Flaubert's blood? I'm glad it
was only a temporary effect. Does this also imply that the life
experiences gotten from a victim are also a temporary effect?
Frank makes a cute girl (Rocky Horror anyone? :) ).
Interesting monologue by LC.
Nat pooh-poohs reincarnation? Why am I not surprised? :)
"Because he's evil? Sorry." YES! He is, Nat! :)
"Curing you won't eradicate the evil in you, but it will help you to
control it." Good line, Nat, but strange coming out of her. She's
considered his affliction physical in the past. Why wouldn't the
removing of the vampire remove the tendency to "evil"? She is
actually, imo, giving Nick unrealistic ideas to ponder. Yes, we all
do have a tendency to evil, and most of us try to control our evil
tendencies. But to say something like that to Nick may make him
doubt that a cure will make a difference in his life. She just sort
of pushed him into fearing a cure with that sort of remark. Even
though I know that wasn't her intent. But I think she should have
thought a bit more before speaking.
Why did Vachon seem to recognize the name Nicolas Chevalier? Have he
and Nick become buddies and swapped past life stories? :)
Did Fuller see Frank? Gosh, lots of "F" names in this.
Why did the therapist have her tape running with Fuller there? Can
we say "plot device"?
Nick vamped out in front of the therapist! Sigh...
"It's not the first time you've killed me. There will be another time."
As if Nick doesn't have *enough* to angst about. Poor Nick.
Where was the karmic lesson in this? Much of first season (and some
episodes since), Nick seemed to be working out karma. An example is
Father Figure. In the past he couldn't save Daniel; in the present
he *did* save Lisa (and Lisa was similarly a "street kid" type of kid).
The "karmic" thing for Nick to have done was to *not* kill Francesca
again. Sigh...
Tracy's deja vu and creeps. How is she connected? Flaubert? LOL!!
And hey, Nick has saved Flaubert from a vampire in *this* life! :)
Mr. Bennett did a good job of directing. The teaser was particularly
well done and I think would have kept a casual viewer interested in
seeing more. I thought some of the flashback repeated wasn't as
necessary. I liked the lighting on LC in the present. The guest cast
were good too.
Overall, this was a good episode. I think it introduced more issues
than it really had time to deal with (reincarnation, vampires' souls
going on after "death", who to "arrest" for the murders--Frank or
Francesca) and that, along with the characters of Nat and LC not
seeming in character, makes it only get a B- in my book.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
BTW, any "quotes" above were from memory, so might not be totally
accurate.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:23:08 -0700
From: Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
At 02:06 AM 5/6/96 -0500, Sandra Gray wrote:
>Random thought: Does Nick give Nat flowers that smell like her?
No way. He very obviously does not take that much time when picking out a
bunch of flowers for Nat! That bunch he gave her at the end of LNMTA was
just what was left at the market he passed on the way over.<g> Now
Vachon... there's a guy who would take the time to choose the contents of a
bouquet of flowers, if he ever got off his butt long enough to actually go
find an all-night florist shop.
Bonnie, Vaquera, Botanist (callalily@l.......)
-- still bleeding for Ger, 10 days later
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:41:56 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
LNMTA wasn't the only ep where Nick gave Nat flowers. He gave her some
in MBV too. And both times they were a mixed bouquet. Were the flowers
in those bouquets fragrant or just nice to look at (I think they might
have been the latter). There are certain flowers that do not have a
"fragrant" scent, but a "plant" scent. Maybe Nat smells like the
outdoors ("plant" scent).
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:52:38 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca--Bovine Implications
>> that every time Nick drinks down cow's blood he has all manner of insights
>into bovine memory and experience?
>ROTFLMAO!! I think this only applies when it's "fresh from the tap" so to
>speak
I think Nick only said that it has to be a sudden death, not that the blood
necessarily had to be fresh. Some of those bovine insights might be pretty
nice. Standing in the sun in a field of grass, for instance.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:26:33 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
>The "karmic" thing for Nick to have done was to *not* kill Francesca
>again. Sigh...
But, but...
Nick didn't kill Frank. He dodge and Frank weaved himself right into the pick
ax FRANK managed to plant in the door. Man, just 'cause Nick was in the room
doesn't make him the killer.
>Mr. Bennett did a good job of directing. The teaser was particularly
>well done and I think would have kept a casual viewer interested in
>seeing more.
I agree.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:28:39 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
>No way. He very obviously does not take that much time when picking out a
>bunch of flowers for Nat!
I liked the rose and perfume he left for her in the tag of DBTLOTM. I think
he gave a great deal of thought to that.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:32:16 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
>LNMTA wasn't the only ep where Nick gave Nat flowers. He gave her some
>in MBV too.
What about the bouquet in OTL? Nat said they were like "little suns". Not a
mixed bouquet at all. It was the card she didn't like...
Carrie, counter of the flowers...
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:30:21 -0400
From: Kristina Mairi Buhrman <kmb19@c.......>
Subject: FKSPOILR Digest catch up: JD, Fran. comments
Emerging from lurkerdom (near Luxembourg, I think) and term paper overload.
Prob'ly my last post to this list (hate endings. fagh. :( )
Re: Francesca (sorry, I can't give credit where credit is due, 'cause I'm
on digest, and tired).
About the cows, someone said that they'd prefer to drink bovine blood
because of the memories "of peaceful green pastures" verses crazed lunatic
visions... well, I just finished reading _Anthropologist on Mars_, and
I was reminded of the abbatoir designing... <evil grin>. Well, as a dairy
farmer's relative, the lot of a cow is not a very happy one from my point
of view, although they don't seem to mind.
about Nigel's direction: Yes, rather nice. Those few outstanding bits reminded
me a bit of these films I was watching.... (ack! no! No more french new
wave flashbacks!). Actually, that was a complement <grin>. Ties in nicely
with my term paper...
Re: Jane Doe.
Finally! <grin> Okay, I know most of you didn't really care about it, but
it was enough for me to see the pathology section of the show. (well,
okay, I've been reading those forensic mysteries again)
> Tracy:
> I know, I pick on her all the time. ;) Well she really wasn't so
> bad, but her squeamishness and fainting was just another reminder
> of how ill-suited she is at being a homicide detective.
> Admittedly if it was anybody else, I probably won't have care (I
> might even had found it amusing). But it wasn't anybody else.
> It was Tracy. And it got on my nerves.
There's one passage in Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets where all
these cops are joking about the autopsies with the green (and green faced
<grin>) rookies, and then they bring in a little child and everyone shuts
up, and even a few of the seasoned cops have to leave.
And in that book there was a cop or two who schlepps off the morgue duty
on their partner, 'cause they can't really stomach it.
Well, what did you expect; I'm a perkulator. Apparantly our natural mode
is defense <grin>
At any rate, it's been a great run, and I'm sorry I didn't discover the
show sooner.
-Kristina kmb19@c.......
Perkulator
Linguistics major w/o a plan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:09:53 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca - Vampire Life <was -- A Few words (spoilers)>
And what is the life they are getting from those whose blood they drink?
>
I don't think they get much out the life they get from the blood they
drink--the memories and abilities of the ingested blood doesn't last long
enough - Nick mentions two days I think when arguing with Francesca over it
(I have to rewatch..what a chore) or was it two hours? At any rate, it's not
really long enough to to add it to their lives.
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:30:58 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
Sandra wrote:
>400 years--Francesca was brought over in 1355?
No - she says she lived there for 400 years. She also says (in the
beginning, to the therapist, as Frank) that Nick is younger than her.
And you do get the impression that she doesn't mean by mere decades.
In fact, I had the feeling that she was brought over before either
Janette or Nick (which would explain why they weren't around when she
was brought over).
>Nick's being psychic again--he thought about Francesca early on and
>before hearing about Frank's therapy.
Not being psychic: the crime *signature* (modus operandi) was the
same.
>Why did the therapist have her tape running with Fuller there? Can
>we say "plot device"?
Not so. Fuller had come there, ostensibly for a consultation,
pretending to be a patient, and she is one of those therapists who
always tape records her sessions.
Laurie
Cousin *** M+B+D+T+K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:20:18 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
[Name removed by request] wrote:
:Nat wouldn't have ruled out a *man* wearing lipstick. i was surprised she
:exclusively referred to the then-unknown perp as "she".
I thought she said that because of the size of the kiss print. I noticed
that "Frank" didn't put lipstick over the entire lip, just over a smaller
amount (the size of a female kiss). Maybe that's why she didn't think: male.
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:55:56 -0500
From: Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject: Thoughts/SPOILERS on Francesca
Okay, I've rewatched the ep twice now, and my perspectives have changed on
a few things. Amazing how different an ep seems when you're not
sleep-deprived.
I'm still worried about Nick. He seems about one setback away from walking
into the sun, and Nat's comment about evil being indestructible didn't help
at all. What was she thinking? When he says, "So why are we bothering <to
make me mortal>?" he needs a major pep talk, not a scientific response. At
the end of that scene, his expression looks, as we say in the South, like a
whupped hound dog. He's starting to scare me.
Sandra Gray wrote:
>Frank makes a cute girl (Rocky Horror anyone? :) ).
I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought this! When Frank is standing
in the therapist's doorway and says, "You didn't send them, did you?" his
tone and his raised eyebrow remind me completely of Tim Curry. I almost
expected him to launch into "Sweet Transvestite." But then, I'm strange.
Would one of our costuming experts explain the various decorations on
Nick's 18th century coat, especially the flaps of fabric on the right
shoulder?
Here's a fun editing glitch to watch for. In the scene where the group is
in Reece's office listening to the tape, the camera goes back and forth
between the tape player and the various characters' reactions. The first
time you see the tape player, there's a Montreal hockey mug and a taller
mug with a hockey player on it on the desk. Next time it cuts back, the
Montreal mug is there, but the other mug has been replaced with a Toronto
Maple Leafs mug, which remains. (This nitpick brought to you by someone who
once managed to let a typo in a front-page headline slip by...no superior
snottiness intended).
I love Francesca's utter refusal to feel wrong or guilty about what she's
doing. Vampire to the core! Anybody know if that gorgeous red hair is for
real?
I'll ask again: WHY do Nick and LC have to leave Paris in such a hurry? Are
they actually referring to something that happened in an earlier ep? It's
too early for the revolution.
One reason I think Vachon sounded so different to me is that in his initial
conversation with Tracy, he's enunciating every syllable with
uncharacteristic care and deliberation. For a moment, I really thought they
had someone else playing Vachon! Perhaps Ben had a cold (and was tryig dot
to soud like it)? Anyone? But as a Vaquera, I went berserk over that sly
grin when Tracy wondered aloud if Chevalier was the murderous connoisseur.
Now that's the Vachon I love.
Looking forward to more discussion,
Stephanie Babbitt (post-fix, happy Vaquera)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:40:09 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
Apache wrote:
: Maybe the bottled blood is a blend, as whiskey usually is,
:multiple malt -- and a 'vintage' of a single interesting person,
:carefully preserved, would have the same allure to connoisseurs as single
:malt whiskey does to that species of tippler.
This idea actually meshes with how LC described the bottled blood he offered
Nick in GVP.
Regarding someone else's post about Francesca being younger than she. Frank
said it under hypnosis: "He's younger than me.... A young crusader...."
(Slight paraphrase since I didn't write it down when I listened to it.)
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:45:37 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
Sandra wrote:
:Why did the therapist have her tape running with Fuller there? Can
:we say "plot device"?
Fuller seemed to have gotten in to see her by pretending to be a patient.
She always tapes her patients, so it makes sense (IMHO) that she was taping
Fuller too. (Plot device was leaving it running after she kicks him out.)
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:55:35 -0400
From: Beth Washington <Beth_Washington@a.......>
Subject: Missing Episodes - Help
Hi!
Once I decided I really liked Forever Knight (I was a new fan this
season), and after the confusion between USA not airing new episodes and
finding another local station that did, I missed recording a few
episodes!
I am missing;
- Games Vampires Play
- Human Factor
- Avenging Angel
- My Trophy Girl
- Blind Faith
- My Boyfriend is a Vampire
- Ashes to Ashes (I don't know if this has aired yet, but according
to the schedule, it was supposed to air before "Fancesca", and I saw
that last night, having seen "Jane Doe" last week. And of course, "Last
Knight" hasn't aired yet.
I know this is *ALOT* to ask of anyone, but I do know that all of these
epsiodes will fit on one tape at SLP (minus commercials and ending
credits), and I was wondering if anyone would be willing to make a tape
for me. Of course I am willing to pay for the tape and shipping and
handling!
I am also looking for the complete first 2 seasons (again at SLP to
minimize the number of tapes).
If you can help me, please email me privatley!
Thanks!
-Biffer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is good. Beth Washington
This is real good! Quality Assurance Engineer
-Tempus Avid Technology, Tewksbury, MA
from Lois & Clark Beth_Washington@a.......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:07:45 -0400
From: Jill Gillham <jilkey@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
On Mon, 6 May 1996, Sandra Gray wrote:
>
> Anyone else feel like Gillian Horvath must have read some of Chelsea
> Quinn Yarbro's St. Germain books? This has a St. Germain flavor
> somehow.
>
I think it was the Montagne name that did it. It sounds kinda like
Madelaine de Montalia, and the concept of the vampire countess in a
french castle was also pretty Madelaine. (Now why couldn't Nick meet up
with St. Germain, have a nice little talk, and maybe get rid of a little
angst?)
Didn't know if anyone mentioned, but Lisa Kadlec is now a FoG. The weird
thing is that I met Lisa at the Gathering last year, and there is
something of a resemblence. (Tho Lisa is definitely a hard sciences person)
=ACJill Marie
jilkey@g....... jilkey@u.......
http://www.grfn.org/~jilkey/
/leave a nightlight on inside the birdhouse in your soul/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:25:41 -0700
From: Valery King <kingv@u.......>
Subject: Re: Missing Episodes - Help
On Mon, 6 May 1996, Beth Washington wrote (in part):
> - Ashes to Ashes (I don't know if this has aired yet, but according
> to the schedule, it was supposed to air before "Fancesca", and I saw
> that last night, having seen "Jane Doe" last week. And of course, "Last
> Knight" hasn't aired yet.
No, AtA *MUST* air *after* Francesca, according to the placard-thingy on
the satellite feed that shows before the program starts (what *are* those
things called? that give the name of the episode and the number and the
date editing was complete?). On last night's feed of AtA, the word "must"
was underlined and blinking! It is confusing because AtA is number 320 and
Francesca is 321; this is how they were filmed but they were always meant
to air the other way. When you see AtA you will understand why (no, I
won't spoil it yet until more people have seen it).
And I haven't heard a definitive answer, but I assume that filming out of
sequence had something to do with the work load for Nigel: he directed
Francesca, and AtA is a heavy acting chore for him as well--and coming
together as they did! Nigel, do you have any tales for us?
Cheers!
Valery
kingv@u.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:57:38 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
At 09:26 AM 5/6/96 -0400, Carrie wrote:
>>The "karmic" thing for Nick to have done was to *not* kill
>Nick didn't kill Frank. He dodge and Frank weaved himself right into the
pick ax FRANK managed to plant in the door. Man, just 'cause Nick was in the
room doesn't make him the killer.
>
Thank you, I was about to say that. He gets enough blame for the things he
does do...let's not give him blame for moving out of the way!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:53:50 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Thoughts/SPOILERS on Francesca
At 10:55 AM 5/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm still worried about Nick. He seems about one setback away
>from walking into the sun, and Nat's comment about evil being
>indestructible didn't help at all. What was she thinking?
I think whe she said "Evil is part of the human condition" she was trying to
make him realize that even humans have to fight with an evil side, that his
right now manifests itself as a vampire, but once human, he won't want to
drink anyone's blood, but there'll still be a dark side to him. I just
think she said it badly. At that point all I wanted to do was reach through
the screen and hold him.
Yes, and I also thought of TIm Curry. Poor TIm, he'll never live that one
down....
launch into "Sweet Transvestite." But then, I'm strange.
>
As for them having to travel in a hurry, I just figured there was probably
one dried up person too many and they had to boogey before too many
questions started getting asked.
Thanks for the goof--I love stuff like that!!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:29:24 -0400
From: Sarah Chodrow <sal@m.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca
Not much to say that others haven't said better, but I'll try to come up with
something new.
(0) A nice Nick/Nat scene. And yeah, he's not going to look at her. He knows
what he'll see--and that's not an issue he's prepared to deal with yet.
(1) It pays to be the director. You get the best makeup job. (I do think that
Ger's exhausted look works quite well for Nick in the confrontation scene at
the end. And he's never had much luck with hair extensions :-)
(2) *Where* was Frank keeping his captives? And how did Nick figure it out?
He flashed to Francesca's comment about the slaughterhouse--I don't think she
said abbatoir--and then fooped to Frank's lair somehow.
(3) Was *Frank* getting anything out of his victim's blood other than
hemoglobin? Frank isn't a vampire, even if he's possessed/reincarnate.
(4) Has there been any correlation (other than Nat's comment in OtL) between
people who can't be hypnotized and resistors? Because Tracy, a potent resistor
who has a number of secrets that she doesn't want to reveal, went under awfully
easily at the end. (I'm one of those people who can't be hypnotized by anyone
else (so far, anyway :-) and self-hypnosis takes a while for the neophyte.)
(5) It was a nice touch to actually use the same bedroom set for both the
modern day and flashback. Not only did we understand Nick's reaction, but
Nigel got to save a few bucks.
(6) :-)
(7) Nice to see a shrink who wasn't villainous, weepy, or crazy. And thanks to
those who answered the question about patient/doctor confidentiality. And for
the Canadian's on the list, does Canada have as strong rules about that as the
US does? The Canadian constitution seems to be a bit weaker in certain areas
of individual rights (at least wrt speech) than the US constitution.
(8) At a guess, I'd say that LaCroix didn't keep as close tabs on Francesca
because she didn't present enough of a challenge. She's an ideally adapted
vampire--where's the fun in that? (Although she seems to be almost terminally
careless--her taste in victims might attract attention, she lived in the same
place for 400 years, and she's got a wooden portcullis in her pantry!) Nick is
a constant source of amusement/tension/confrontation, with Janette acting as a
control to the reaction.
Back to work,
- Sarah (unaffiliated and unlurked)
PS - Did this episode seem a little rushed to anyone?
--
-- Sarah E. Chodrow email: sal@m....... --
-- Dept. of Math & Computer Science URL : www.mathcs.emory.edu/~sal --
-- 0000 X. Xxxxxxx Xx, Xxx. 000 phone: (000) 000-0000 --
-- Xxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx, Xxxxxxx, XX 00000 fax : (000) 000-0000 --
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:40:42 -0400
From: Carol Lynn <Expotech@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
>>I'm thrilled that finally the psychic significance of blood-drinking is made
>>explicit. <snip> And the sensuality of Nick's manner when explaining
>>this intimacy to Nat -- brrr!
Yeah, and the instant I feel that way about cows, I'm turning vegetarian.
Carol
Carol Lynn
Expotech@a.......
--
"I will listen to any hypothesis on
but one condition-- that you show me
a method by which it can be tested."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:53:24 -0400
From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca(Nat)
It occurred to me that several people who commented on Nat's apparent
fascination with Nick's revelations about "life in the blood" said Nat looked
as if she were ready to be brought across. Lots of viewers seem to share the
opinion that the ideal resolution to the Nick-Nat affair would be for her to
become a vampire. I fully expect that if the series does do anything to
resolve their impasse, either Nick will be cured or Nat will be converted.
Neither of those would be my choice. The relationship between a vampire and
a mortal who each remain what they are and have to adjust to each other on
those terms is much more interesting to me. If Nat is ever brought across, I
would want it to happen after a long, full mortal life as Nick's lover, when
she has had plenty of time to contemplate all the implications and decide
whether she *really* wants to share that kind of immortality. BTW, does a FK
vampire stay the apparent age he/she was at the time of conversion, or would
a vampire converted in old age revert, as undead, to the prime of life (as in
most vampire fiction)? I don't remember this being addressed in the series.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:19:31 -0400
From: "Michael W. Smith" <mwsmith@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca(Nat)
On Mon, 6 May 1996, Margaret L. Carter wrote:
> whether she *really* wants to share that kind of immortality. BTW, does a FK
> vampire stay the apparent age he/she was at the time of conversion, or would
> a vampire converted in old age revert, as undead, to the prime of life (as in
> most vampire fiction)? I don't remember this being addressed in the series.
>
When LaCroix brought Constantine across so he could continue to run his
Gangster family, he stayed an old man.
-Cousin Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:22:57 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca(Nat)
> BTW, does a FK
> vampire stay the apparent age he/she was at the time of conversion, or would
> a vampire converted in old age revert, as undead, to the prime of life (as in
> most vampire fiction)? I don't remember this being addressed in the series.
Don Constantine in Father's Day. He was an old mortal, and he became an
old-looking vampire, albeit with none of the usual decrepitudes that
accompany old age. (I.e., he had full vampiric strength and certainly
looked healthier, though not younger, after being brought across.) We've
seen that being brought across reverses the effects of disease (Elizabeth
the leper in I Will Repay), but old age isn't viewed by Nat's "vampire
virus" as being a disease in that sense.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:44:39 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca(Nat)
. BTW, does a FK vampire stay the apparent age he/she was at the time of
conversion, or would a vampire converted in old age revert, as undead, to
the prime of life (as in most vampire fiction)? I don't remember this being
addressed in the series.
>
Yep, in Father's Day when LaCroix brings across the head of the "family" he
doesn't youthen at all, he stays the same.
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:03:09 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
I think the OTL bouquet was chosen for its symbolism rather than its
scent.
I don't think those OTL flowers had a fragrant scent either.
I forgot about the rose and perfume though. Those were certainly
fragrant.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:00:47 -0400
From: Phillip Anderson <panderson@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca(Nat)
I tend to agree that a vampire will maintain the "age" that he exhibits
when he is brought across (hmmm.... guess I better hurry). However, if
he were to attain the appearance of some "optimal" age, it probably would
happen slowly. The Mafia head in FD might have looked thirty a week
(month, year....) later. But I don't think so.
--------------
FoolKiller
panderson@c.......
CSI
"It's not how you look; it's how you feed!" - Nat's Virus
^
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:25:47 -0700
From: Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
Sandra <wave> wrote:
>I think the OTL bouquet was chosen for its symbolism rather than its
>scent.
>I don't think those OTL flowers had a fragrant scent either.
Though, we do know that vampire senses are keener than our own. Go stick
your nose in a callalily -- a faint smell, but not much, not much for anyone
to go crazy over, not like the heady scent of a rose.
OTL were sunflowers, yes? If so, they were definately chosen for their
sybolism, but then guilt will do that to a guy -- or maybe he's telling her
to save the seeds and one day they'll catch a BlueJays game at the Dome.
I'm actually kinda surprised he didn't just call up FTD and order a 'Happy
Birthday Bouquet' for her -- at least then she would have gotten one of
those cute little tootie things out of it.
>I forgot about the rose and perfume though. Those were certainly
>fragrant.
I actually think that this might be so overwhelming for Nick's vampire
senses that he would avoid such things. Have *you* ever been in an elevator
with a bunch of business people at 8am -- the cologne, the perfume, the
deoderant, the shampoo, mousse, gel, hair spray... if it were an airplane,
those little oxygen masks would drop from the ceiling! I think this is what
it would be like for a vampire. Besides, if they can smell the essence of
the person's blood, why would they want to cover that up with artificial
perfumes?
Just my idle opinion.
Bonnie, the once and future ardent Vaquera
(callalily@l.......)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:56:11 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
Carrie wrote:
>Nick didn't kill Frank. He dodge and Frank weaved himself right into the
>pick ax FRANK managed to plant in the door.
But Nick, being a vampire, should have been able to subdue a *mortal*.
Why would he have had to "dodge" at all? He'd already vamped out in
front of the therapist so he didn't need to hide any more of his vampire
abilities (like speed, strength, etc.).
True, Nick didn't actually stick the ax into Frank. But don't you
think it should have been possible for Nick to have captured Frank
rather than let him get impaled (cop out ending is what it was, to
avoid the issue raised by LC of "Who do you arrest?").
Speaking of that ax, that looked like the *same* set of weapons that
Francesca had on *her* wall. Is it possible, then, that this was not
a case of reincarnation but some sort of "haunting" of an object and
Frank was possessed by Francesca's ghost?
Just one of the things I noticed when I rewatched the ep today. I
also noticed that Frank did say in his session that Francesca was
older than Nick. Does anyone else think it odd that Francesca should
seem so independent and LC seem so tolerant and pleased at how she
turned out? It was one of the things I thought inconsistent with
LC's character (I can't imagine him being any sort of "good" parent).
Another thing on the "evil" issue. Gillian Horvath has just about
confirmed the "evil" of vampirism with this episode. If we're to
accept that Francesca's soul has survived, then that means that the
FK vampire keeps the soul he or she was born with (at least I can't
see any evidence that becoming a vampire gives you a vampire *soul*
as well as a vampire *body*). Therefore, vampires are *augmented
humans*. With *human* souls, they *cannot* be considered separate
or above humans. A human who kills another human is murdering that
human. The FK vampire *should* be held responsible for murdering
his fellow human souls.
Maybe this is why LC insisted to Nick in first season's False
Witness that vampires don't have souls (and why Janette has also
repeated the same idea). To admit otherwise is to be forced (as Nick
has been forced by his conscience) to admit that you are a murderer
(if you kill humans for food). So we have another reason for LC to
have wanted Nick to stay like him. And we have another reason for
him to fear Nick becoming mortal again other than Nick then being
subject to a mortal death.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
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