FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 7
May 5, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 7
TOPICS:
SPOILER: Francesca (10)
Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers) (4)
FRANCESCA: just little stuff (3)
SPOILER:Francesca
Jane Doe (and GVP): Turnabout is fair play
Francesca spoilers
SPOILERS: Francesca -- Bravo!
ARRRGH!!! Francesca Doe?
Spoiler: Francesca
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 05:08:48 -0500
From: MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR <VQRW76A@p.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Francesca
I'm echoing whoever wrote "Thanks, Gillian!" A really good one.
:) The following ramblings are fairly random.
The actress who played Francesca was perfect; was it just me, or did her
eyes seem red _all_ the time? Well, if they weren't, you couldn't tell it
from what I saw. Finally, a guest vampire who's up to the challenge. I
really want to have that hair color.... And YAY! More info on other
children of Lacroix! No guessing how old she is, but I'll be she's older
than Janette. I'll bet LC was _peeved_ when he found out Nick accidentally
killed her. The actor who played Frank was good too - very restrained.
The plot was, well, weird. I'm with Nat---I believe ten impossible things
before breakfast, but somehow the idea of this kind of possession or
insanity just takes the cake. Why the story worked, I'll never know, but
it did. Maybe it was the poetry in all the descriptions of blood drinking
that made it work. Or how careful they were about pointing out that it
didn't matter if there were vampires or not, or if reincarnation worked;
what mattered was that Frank believed it. Anyway, I never ended up
screaming "Oh, come ON" at the screen the way I do sometimes.
Speaking of poetic blood ... anyone else catch the dreamy look on Nat's
face while Nick described what a vampire can get from someone's blood?
Found myself listening to Nick's voice rather remotely too. If the boy ever
needs employment, he'd do fine as a hypnotist. One has to wonder if Nat's
resistance to vampirism [as in, becoming one] is breaking down as she
begins to understand more about it. Hmmm....
Also loved Nat's response to Nick's question of "Why would Lacroix do
that?" : "Oh, I don't know, because he's evil?" Hysterical. <G> Also
liked Tracy's "I dated him once.... no, I mean I dated him ONCE." And the
psychiatrist's comments on Nicholas Chevalier: "Sounds like a romance novel."
The scene with Vachon and Tracy discussing blood supplies was cool, and
Vachon's reaction to her questioning him about Nicholas Chevalier was
funny. "Hoooo boy, Knight... the things I do for you..." Although, talk
about not seeing what's in front of your face: "Chevalier", I mean, even
*I* know that's French for Knight, and I'm not living within throwing
distance of French-speaking Montreal. AND Tracy's having dreams about
being a vampire victim, and she then goes straight to the only one she
knows to discuss the case??? Gahhhh. She's not dumb, but man oh man...
**Eyebrow watch: Nigel seems to have bought flowers for the makeup artist.
They were too dark, but not out of control Joan-Crawford-creepy. I'm
relieved. Really. :)
Liked the bit where Frank/Francesca was in the car listening to Lacroix...
hey, there's an idea. Maybe it was listening to the Nightcrawler in the
first place that set him off. <shrug> It could happen.
As for sexy scenes... the slow-mo bits between Nick & Francesca... yum yum!
Yow. Hee hee. Another set that I want for my birthday, her bedroom: add
this one to the wedding suite from "Dead of Night" in my Best Vampire
Furnishings.
Although... wasn't Nick still killing people at this point? Is his anger
consistent for 1755? Well, maybe he wasn't killing a lot. Maybe he was
just killing derelicts, and letting everyone else live. Nick as a PETA
activist, letting all those poets and musicians go---I had a sudden vision
of him setting free the lobsters in a tank at a restraunt.
RE: Reincarnation
Someone pointed out to me once that if this were really true, then most of
the people on the planet couldn't be reincarnations now, since there are 5
billion people alive now, more than there have ever been at any one time.
However... another writer once said that the population of street children
in Rio de Janeiro increases while they kill off millions and millions of
trees. Maybe they have the souls of murdered trees? ... Anyway. More
people believe in it than don't. (Personally, I'm pretty sure this is MY
first time on the planet. I'd be much more graceful and less of a klutz if
I'd been in a human body before this).
One last thought: for whoever else has read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy series. Didn't Frank/Francesca's statement of "you killed me last
time... but there will be another time..." remind you of that poor guy that
Arthur Dent kept killing, over and over and over again? :) At some point,
Francesca's going to catch up with Nick again.....
If Tracy doesn't get to HER first. ha!
Tracy as a violinist? Now *this* is unbelievable. :)
Christina vqrw76a@p....... Merc FoFoD Universal Donor
"Elvis's Alien Love Child Stole My Pet Bigfoot! Next, on the Jerry Show"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 05:13:59 -0400
From: colin paddock <Claudius@n.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
At 05:08 05/05/1996 -0500, you wrote:
> I'm echoing whoever wrote "Thanks, Gillian!" A really good one.
>:) The following ramblings are fairly random.
>
>The actress who played Francesca was perfect; was it just me, or did her
>eyes seem red _all_ the time? Well, if they weren't, you couldn't tell it
>from what I saw. Finally, a guest vampire who's up to the challenge. I
>really want to have that hair color....
I tried to get my hair that color and it started to fall out...It was a real
mess....
Colin
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 06:11:59 -0400
From: Janette Z <Janette92@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
In a message dated 96-05-05 05:10:31 EDT, you write:
>**Eyebrow watch: Nigel seems to have bought flowers for the makeup artist.
>They were too dark, but not out of control Joan-Crawford-creepy. I'm
>relieved. Really. :)
Ditto!!!!! It was quite a relief to be able to pay attention to what he
was SAYING rather than those things above his head!!! As for the ep -- it
was one of the few eps I've seen lately in which basically, every second
counted!!! I mean, it wasn't an ep that you could get up and leave for a
while and then come back (of course I NEVER do that, but still...) Sorry, I
have a thing for complex storylines, and this was definitely complex!!
Ravenette, Immortal Beloved,
Seducer, CO-CFW for Evil
MacLeod and Evil Tessa,
Richie Reservist -- Janette92@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 05:14:18 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
Valery wrote:
>I thought it looked a lot like -- naked longing. Bravo to Nigel the
>director for lingering on Natalie as Nick is explaining all of this.
Totally agree with Val on this. Terrific direction.
>> Evil again: I find the argument that vampires are exempt from human
>>morality because they're a "different species" rather odd, even if
>This is my feeling on the matter. Vampires killing humans is evil
>because, unlike cows and pigs and other animals humans eat, a human is
>sentient.
I think the point that was being made is that we humans are awfully
*arrogant* and self-serving when we say it's okay to kill pigs and cows
because we assume that pigs and cows are not *sentient*. Not being
pigs or cows ourselves, there's no real way we can be absolutely sure
of this. Indeed, as to cows, the Hindus of this world certainly have a
different opinion, and I'm sure many of them think us "evil" for
consuming beef. Which only goes to prove, once again, that "evil" is
subjective.
>I have no problem, and neither do most other Westerners, with
>killing animals for food but I'm horrified at the though that all
>those whales and dolphins that have been butchered by humans might
>have a higher intelligence approaching sentience.
Other issues apart, dolphins and whales are not normally the natural
food of humans (except whales for certain small segments of human
society like the Inuit population). Do we have the right to tell those
segments of society that despite their customs and traditions and
eating habits, they can't eat whale anymore because it's "evil"?
Which is the more *evil*? Interfering with a society's traditions and
customs, or allowing them to kill whales? Or could it be that *evil*
is not that easy to define after all?
Humans are not merely a different species from vampires; they are the
natural food of vampires. Personally, I've always assumed a certain
amount of Nick's brickishness this century is due to malnutrition, from
trying to survive on cow's blood, which lacks the proper nutrients for
vampires. This would also explain why carouches are viewed as a lower
life form among vampires: their food source(s) inhibits their
intelligence.
>And as potential vampire victims, how can we honestly disagree?
Easily. <g> The two things have nothing to do with each other.
>If Lacroix decided to make a meal of you (and make you dead!) are any
>of us going to give in gracefully because it's "part of his nature?"
>I really don't think so.
It may be within the vampire nature to kill humans, and I don't view
that as necessarily *evil*, but being human (and prey) I would
naturally resist being eaten. <g> I would add that it's far easier to
argue this position as a philosophical, theoretical matter, since
fortunately we don't *really* have to worry about being eaten by
vampires, thank goodness. :-)
Furthermore, I've always been outraged when a game park or zoo shoots a
bear, or tiger, or lion because some idiot climbed into the enclosure
and got killed. The animal was only acting true to its nature; why
should it die for that?
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 06:56:11 -0700
From: "Andrew E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers)
Pardon me if this overlaps with other comments. I wanted to get my
opinions down before reading anyone else's posts.
I thought the actor playing Frank did an excellent job. Came across as
very effeminate.
Evidently Natalie is a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan; at one
point she paraphrases the "10 impossible things before breakfast line".
Even though there are probably some scientific problems with this, I
liked the blood containing victim's memories/experiences idea. It adds to
the passion of vampiric existence and helps to explain why vampires so
often get carried away when feeding.
I liked the scene where Lisa asks Vachon about Nicholas Chevalier. Good
"How do I handle this?" expression on Vachon's face.
One big complaint: Lisa being the musician reincarnated was
interesting, and it is plausible that after all these years she wouldn't
recognize Nick as the contact was brief, but shouldn't they have set this
up in previous episodes by having Lisa display musical talent? It would
have been easier to believe it was the same soul if there were distinct
similarities between the musician and Lisa.
Aside from this I really liked the episode. I was going to tape it and
watch it after I had time to sleep, but got drawn in.
--Andy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:44:35 -0400
From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers)
On Sun, 5 May 1996, Andrew E. Nystrom wrote:
> Evidently Natalie is a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan; at one
> point she paraphrases the "10 impossible things before breakfast line".
The phrase pre-dates Hitchhiker: in Alice Through the Looking Glass, the
Red Queen says "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible
things before breakfast" when Alice complains that she can't believe
impossible things.
Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@c.......
-*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*-
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 09:53:18 -0500
From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject: FRANCESCA: just little stuff
Well, as usual, Gillian has done a Fantastic job on this script.
I'm just going to mention a few details I noticed, and leave the deep,
philosophical analysis to eveybody else.
In Tracy's nightmare, did anybody else notice that her attacker had NO image in
the mirror? Guess she still thinks vampires don't cast a reflection, huh? <g>
Loved the little "will he/she figure it out?" looks on the Nick/Tracy double
shot at the end of one scene, when the therapist mentions Vampires....
And it's obvious vampires have NO place in Reese's world-view. Just as well.
Also, we seem to have conclusive evidence now that vampires DO have souls....
apparently Janette's numerous comments to the contrary were just her opinion.
<g>
Anyway, as always with a Gillian Horvath ep, I'm going to be able to watch this
a dozen times and *still* not catch all the subtle detail she puts in.
Just had to comment. After all, to quote (was it Einstein?) "God is in the
details"...
Diane E
# D Echelbarger gryphon@e....... #
# WWW HomePage: http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ #
# "Look, I know you're a figment of my imagination, #
# but you have to stop sneaking up on me!" N. Lambert #
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:09:56 -0500
From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers)
> Even though there are probably some scientific problems with this, I
>liked the blood containing victim's memories/experiences idea. It adds to
>the passion of vampiric existence and helps to explain why vampires so
>often get carried away when feeding.
No kidding! Gives a whole new light on how strong Nick's self-control must be,
to voluntarily abstain, right? I mean, I could probably become a vegetarian if
I wanted to, but if I had to give up meat AND music AND art... wow!
> I liked the scene where Lisa asks Vachon about Nicholas Chevalier. Good
Ummm... you mean Tracy, right? ;> Lisa's the actor.
Diane E
# D Echelbarger gryphon@e....... #
# WWW HomePage: http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ #
# "Look, I know you're a figment of my imagination, #
# but you have to stop sneaking up on me!" N. Lambert #
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:13:45 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER:Francesca
On Sun, 5 May 1996, Sherri wrote:
> autopsy....
> steak, pate, and a Merlot??" Can you really tell what kind of wine??
Yes -- I don't know if Nat's facilities are that good, but I
talked to the forensic folks at the FBI in connection with a criminal case
I was trying to build once (I do almost entirely civil, but this looked
like a murder disguised as an occupational accident) -- anyway, those
people could probably track down the *vineyard and vintage (year)* -- has
to do with the trace materials still left, like (believe this?)
spiderwebs, in the wine.
Is there an oenophile in the house? what's distinctive about Merlots?
Apache
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:40:14 -0400
From: Deborah Menikoff <menikoff@p.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
It's amazing how good the show can be when left in the hands of people with
a clue. Kudos to Gillian for a script that once again gave us food for
thoguht (Souls eh? Guess Janette was wrong) and accolades to Nigel for a job
well done. Thanks for giving us a episode that flowed together rather than
cutting and jumping as some are prone to do.
Quick general thoughts:
1.) Thought the music was used to good effect. Particularly during Vachon
and Tracy's second conversation.
2.) Flashbacks were not only relevant in this ep (and let's face it
sometimes there aren't) they connected the scenes on either side of them to
each other.
3.) Thought Frank/Francesca casting was excellent and both actors were quite
good. "Frank" really seemed to be so much less confused once he "became"
Francesca physically. And Francesca was a much more interetsing guest
vampire than we have had in ages. Still...sigh...I miss Feliks...<sniff> Oh
uh, where was I? Oh yes...
MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR writes:
>The actress who played Francesca was perfect; was it just me, or did her
>eyes seem red _all_ the time?
They seemed red from here too. More startlingly so since she was so paled.
>children of Lacroix! No guessing how old she is, but I'll be she's older
>than Janette. I'll bet LC was _peeved_ when he found out Nick accidentally
>killed her.
Oh I don't know. It didn't seem so accidental to me. :-)
>Also loved Nat's response to Nick's question of "Why would Lacroix do
>that?" : "Oh, I don't know, because he's evil?"
I can't believe Nick even said "Why would he do that" when Nat suggested that
perhaps Lacroix were messing with his head. The LC/ Nick relationship must be
on much better footing thewn I thought to elicite such a question :-)
>liked Tracy's "I dated him once.... no, I mean I dated him ONCE."
And the reporter was such a...a... nebish. Sorry. I'm turning into my
grandmother. But he was. He was pesky and annoyiong and clueless
and....nebishy :-) (Is that the word I want? I think so but it sounds right
for the reporter)
Other great moments:
When Nat is so busy watching Nick flashback that she doesn't respond to
Tracy right away "I beg your pardon?"
Tracy "It's right in front of my face . I'm just not seeing it" Yeah and you
should have done your french homework.
As for "I've seen stranger things in my time." I'll bet you have my dear
feloow. I'll bet you have. And is it Harry Houdini week - he was talked
about in Highlander this week too.
Tracy's contribution to the "nature of the vampire" in Reese's office. When
Nick and Reese look at her like "That's a very....keen insight detective
Vetter" she gets all flustered and looks away.
So I didn't feel compelled to shred this one. Or even to throw socks at the
TV. (Dianne, do you think I am getting soft in my old age?).
anyway, that's all for now.
Oh and Nigel, thanks so much for that in depth exploration of the guitar.
:-) I could probably build one myself after that.
__________ Deborah -- first cousin, once removed ______________
" I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry
knows, and Henry knows we know it. We're a knowledgeable family."
________________ menikoff@p....... _____________________
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:52:49 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: FRANCESCA: just little stuff
> we seem to have conclusive evidence now that vampires DO have souls....
I also thought about that. I had always felt, dispite what the cannon may be
on the subject, that vamps do have souls. In ND, Nick is confronted with the
current state of his own. As far as reincarnation is concerned, I think
perhaps the Nightcrawlers notes on the subject are the most interesting.
Perhaps it is the 'life sentence' for evil. Never to make it to the afterlife
at all, just go around the mulberry bush, over and over and over...
What a good ep. Lots to discuss. Should keep us all busy for awhile.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:49:47 -0500
From: John & Donna Spert <jjs@i.......>
Subject: Jane Doe (and GVP): Turnabout is fair play
Hi everyone,
Did anyone else wish that Nick had made a subtle reference to a certain
video game? It seemed ironic for Reese to be so sure that Manning had
spelled out the details of his crimes in the book, when it wasn't all
that long ago he was chastising Nick for saying that someone had spelled
out the details of a crime-in-progress in a video game.
Reese didn't read the book to see if there were any hints on future
murders that Manning might commit. I assume that he found the book too
distasteful to read. Whereas Nick was "seduced" by the premise of the
game and found it all too easy to look in it for clues.
Both criminals were caught because of a direct confrontation: Nick
trusted in his vampire powers and thereby she was caught, gun in hand.
Reese seemed to trust that Manning wanted to toy with him and there
wouldn't be an ambush, thereby getting the opportunity to grab a hair sample.
And of course we see the difference between a Captain and a Detective.
The Captain can call a criminal confessing in a video game "crazy". The
Detective is told the criminal has confessed in a book and can say "Yes,
sir" :-)
John
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:01:19 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers)
>No kidding! Gives a whole new light on how strong Nick's self-control must
> be,
>to voluntarily abstain, right? I mean, I could probably become a
> vegetarian if
>I wanted to, but if I had to give up meat AND music AND art... wow!
Did anyone else notice the change on Nick's face when he said that's what
makes it so hard to give up? Man, what a moment. His countenance so
completely changed that I sat back a little. What a perfect way to punctuate
the point. It is difficult. It would have to be. What an actor.
BTW, I have to give kudos to Nigel Bennett. I loved the way this one was
directed. The story is complex and the flashbacks so pivotal. The mix was
perfect IMHO. Wow.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:05:36 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
> Thought the music was used to good effect.
Did anyone else notice the same musical thread from AA? It was wonderful. So
appropriate. I was wondering if we would hear it again. Thanks Fred.
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:21:57 -0400
From: Antonia Mandry <MA97AD14@a.......>
Subject: Francesca spoilers
Isn't Chevalier the french for Knight?
toni m.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:27:18 -0400
From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
On Sun, 5 May 1996, Deborah Menikoff wrote:
> >I'll bet LC was _peeved_ when he found out Nick accidentally
> >killed her.
>
> Oh I don't know. It didn't seem so accidental to me. :-)
Wasn't she impaled on a *metal* gate? Why did she die?
Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@c.......
-*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*-
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:46:57 -0500
From: Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca -- Bravo!
After all the complaining about how Jane Doe wasn't a "vampire" episode,
this one certainly filled those needs!
It certainly did MOVE, I'll say that. And I'll agree with the comments
on Nick/Tracy's face when the therapist mentions vampires. I was ROTFLMAO.
As for Nat's face when Nick was describing all that, I vote for her having
to get up and take a cold shower when he was done. And yes to kudos for
having the camera linger on her while she sat there, but even more to
Nigel for NOT lingering on Nick as he lapsed into flashback mode. For the
first time in episodes I was not tempted to use "Nick!
Maaayyyyonnnaaaissse..."
(Has anybody remembered who originally said that?)
As for Tracy being Faubert, I nailed that at the first nightmare she had,
but instead of annoying me, I liked it. Tied immediately into Nick's comment
that "You have a bright future ahead of you." Bravo Gillian!
As for her recognizing Nick because she's seen him before, she only saw him
for a moment, and didn't even know he was a vampire then. And there's no
reason for us to assume that she's got latent musical talent just because of
it. What I really liked was the fact that it seemed to me that the tag was
just to CONFIRM that she was Faubert, and not to "surprise" us with it.
The only thing that niggled at me was Vachon immediately knowing who
"Nicholas Chevalier" was, but that's because I didn't know "chevalier" meant
"knight". Still, it was a pretty big leap, if Vachon never met Nick before
Toronto, and there's not reason to suspect that he had.
But hey, if that minor niggle is all that was wrong with it, that's saying
something.
(I agree, though, it did kind of look like the stress was beginning to take
it's toll on poor Ger.)
Thank goodness this wasn't an episode that needed 4 minutes cut for the US!
I wouldn't begin to know where they would start.
---- TJ
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:39:11 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: FRANCESCA: just little stuff
On Sun, 5 May 1996, Carrie Krumtum wrote:
> > we seem to have conclusive evidence now that vampires DO have souls....
>
> I also thought about that. I had always felt, despite what the canon may be
> on the subject, that vamps do have souls. In ND, Nick is confronted with the
> current state of his own.
Me too. I've always taken "Near Death" as an actual picture of
what happens, not as a fantasy/dream/projection of Nick's. So vampires
have souls, and immortal (even-more-immortal?) fates to work out.
To put my two cents in on another point we've been discussing,
'Near Death' also seemed to say that Nick could cleanse his soul even
while remaining a vampire. That was the whole point of the vision of
the worm-ridden body: you've cleaned up a little -- expiated some of
those centuries of murders -- but not all the way.
> As far as reincarnation is concerned, I think
> perhaps the Nightcrawlers notes on the subject are the most interesting.
> Perhaps it is the 'life sentence' for evil. Never to make it to the afterlife
> at all, just go around the mulberry bush, over and over and over...
'Near Death' seemed to say that Nick had a choice to die or not,
even as a vampire. Apparently the choices continue even when the vampire
definitively dies, as Francesca did in the flashback.
Maybe Francesca was so furious at being murdered -- it happened
so quickly -- that she had the kind of 'unfinished business' that is so
often linked with ghosts -- who knows, maybe Alyssa shouldered her
aside to get to Nick in the haunted house, and that was when she started
actively invading Frank's dreams.
Think how ticked Lacroix must have been -- Francesca was a happy,
well-adjusted vampire child who was always happy to see him. One little
night of hiding out at her place, and Nick the Problem Child is not only
offered the pick of the vintage (wouldn't Lacroix have liked that taste
of Faubert?), but kills her for it.
On a couple other points: maybe FK is taking a Buddhist view of
souls, in which case there would be enough to go around for all the five
billion people currently alive.
And the 1755 date and Nick's sensitivity to killing an artist: I
thought it had been 300 years since he vowed never again to kill an
"innocent." -- Which episode was that in?
Ap.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:02:44 -0500
From: Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
>Wasn't she impaled on a *metal* gate? Why did she die?
It didn't exactly look like it was through her heart, either. Just tell
yourself, the gate was wood, and the angle was deceiving.
---- TJ
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:09:43 -0400
From: Larissa Field <rfield@n.......>
Subject: Re: ARRRGH!!! Francesca Doe?
At 00:57 05/05/96 -0400, Dalton Spence wrote:
>Here I am, trying to tape "Francesca" when suddenly, half way through,
>they start showing the last half of "Jane Doe"! <very long string of
>expletives deleted> <sigh> I think I'll just lie back now and go quietly
>crazy. <beat> What the hell, I never do ANYTHING quietly! 8^(
I just thought I'd let you know that you weren't the only one who was denied
the ending of Francesca. It really shocked me to come back from comercial
to see Nick talking to the IA guy about Reese. We must be watching the same
station. Any ideas when Francesca will re-air? I'm really desperate. I
want to see what happens!!!!
Larissa.
Olga Field
rfield@n.......
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Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:11:42 -0400
From: Lisa Prince <Moonlight@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
Hi All :)
A few comments on Francesca :) First, since everyone's always
picking on Uncle's eyebrows, I figured I'd just jump right in and
say that Tracy was having a very bad hair episode. She looked like
she got caught in a wind tunnel without the benefit of a comb.
Either that or she had a major battle with her curling iron and
lost big time.
I really liked this episode, but a few things sort of bugged me.
Concerning the reincarnation angle -- From all the reading that
I've done on this subject, IMVH this episode didn't quite get it
down right. Usually, the soul is simply resurrected in another
body. There may be memories, as Frank had, or senses of deja vu
when enacting specific behaviors or visiting sites that might have
been involved in previous lives, but there is definitely a sense of
integration between the current life and past life. In this
episode, TPTB seemed to keep the two personalities/souls distinctly
separate and gave one power over the other. It seemed to play more
like a multiple personality thing to me. Once Francesca came out,
she was the strong one, and she appeared to overpower and suppress
Frank. Frank's physical body became the outward manifestation for
the persona of Francesca. Any psychologists who have dealt with
this please correct me if I'm totally off-base, but isn't this sort
of thing unheard of?
Concerning Natalie's look, Valerie wrote:
>I thought it looked a lot like -- naked longing. <snip> The
>woman is in love with Nick, <snip> And Nick either cannot see this
>longing <snip> or he is ignoring it deliberately hoping she
>won't press him about it
Well, IMHO, if you looked at Nick's expression when he was talking
to her, it was obvious that he was staring at her with a good deal
of longing. To me, he appeared to be staring at her with a look
that spoke volumes. Sort of, I wonder what it would be like to
take a sip from you.
Discussing the idea of evil, Valerie wrote:
>This is my feeling on the matter. Vampires killing humans is evil
>because, unlike cows and pigs and other animals humans eat, a
>human is sentient.
Excuse me, but this argument is truly rather elitist. Just because
we're *sentinent* and they're not, we have the right to slaughter
them? Since a cow is *less intelligent* than we are, shouldn't it
be our responsibility to take care of them and protect them?
Animals feel pain just like we do, but because they can't express
their pain in a language we can understand, it's not evil to
massacre them? Totally disagree with the set up of your argument
here. Sorry, but that sort of argument has always bugged me.
On another note: If vampires killing humans for sustenance is
wrong, isn't a vampire killing another vampire even more of a
problem. Supposedly, using the argument of my on-list friends who
believe in the absolute evil of murder (hi Amy, Laura, and all you
other wonderful people), humans killing other humans is always
wrong -- vampires killing humans is always wrong -- so, wouldn't
vampires killing other vampires always be wrong? Wouldn't that
make Nick's murder of the Countess evil? Hasn't Nick sort of made
it his business to run around through history killing what he
perceives to be wayward vampires? Judgmental little fellow, isn't
he?
Yes, I'm aware that all you Knighties out there are going to tell
me that the Countess was evil so Nick was justified. But, I might
remind you all, when Nick was talking to Natalie, he explained the
concept of a vampire's need to keep drinking. It was an addictive,
nearly uncontrollable thing. He says that once you take one sip,
then another, you just want to keep drinking to prolong the
experience, similar to the problems that alcoholics and drug
addicts have. Besides which, according to the words of the
Countess, she believed she was immortalizing her victims by
drinking their blood. She believed that their essence would live
on through her. Isn't giving them a portion of immortality better
than allowing them to die all together? And Nick, by killing her,
killed all the *souls* that she had immortalized. Interesting
idea.
>And as potential vampire victims, how can we honestly disagree? If
> Lacroix decided to make a meal of you (and make you dead!) are
>any of us going to give in gracefully because it's "part of his
>nature?"
Why does everyone always use LaCroix as the example? Have we seen
LaCroix kill that many humans in present day to warrant constantly
jumping on him as being the *evil* one and Nick being the *good*
one? Nick stops killing humans and starts killing vampires instead
and that makes him a good man?
Later all,
Lisa
The Forgotten L -- Third over to the right
M+B+D+T+K
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Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:21:13 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
On Sun, 5 May 1996, Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine wrote:
> >Wasn't she impaled on a *metal* gate? Why did she die?
>
> It didn't exactly look like it was through her heart, either. Just tell
> yourself, the gate was wood, and the angle was deceiving.
Could someone with a good tape look -- the bottom foot or so of
the gate seemed to be a different color, like maybe the sharp end of the
portcullis was wood? I was curious about this point too.
A.
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Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:20:18 EDT
From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Francesca
Well, since Nat (or at least the technology at the morgue) seems to be
able to identify lamb's blood in a subject's stomach -- see SoB -- which
is impossible without extended testing and it's debatable if the stuff
would even be obvious as blood on first examination, she might as well
be able to tell a merlot from anything else. :)
Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
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