FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 5
May 2-May 3, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 5
TOPICS:
FKSPOILR Digest - 1 May 1996 to 2 May 1996 - Special issue
LC, Nietzsche, & evil
LC, Nietzsche, and evil.... (3)
SPOILER: Jane Doe, HF, FI (2)
Jane Doe Spoilers
Spoiler: GVP, JD: Re: LC, Nietzsche, and evil....
more LC/evil rantings
Spoiler: Jane Doe (4)
JaneDoeSpoilrs/Lighting, paper
Spoiler: Jane Doe (re: the Jane Doe) (3)
SPOLER: Francesca
Spoiler: Francesca
Spoiler: Jane Doe, Flowers
More on LaCroix <was Re: SPOILER: Jane Doe, HF, FI>
Spoiler: Jane Doe (th (2)
SPOILER: JD, HF, Body Count
Spoilers- Jane Doe
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:51:48 +0200
From: Katrinka <STUKENDALCA@m.......>
Subject: Re: FKSPOILR Digest - 1 May 1996 to 2 May 1996 - Special issue
okay, about jane doe: yes, hitler was evil (hey he killed many members of
my family,) but that is in retrospect, i mean at the time, did lacroix
and Nick know that millions on millions would die? (remember the six
million dead figure *only* refers to jews dead, it doesn't count on
cathlics, or romanys or poles) I as a romany can't hold Nick accountable
if he had really existed.
on anouther thing, I've been trying to post things on this list,
the message gets sent but they never show up, this also happens with the
forkn-l does this mean that if your on no mail, the computer ignores you?
because I have a question I need help on, I am writing a story with a
juvinile and I need to know, what is the age of being considered an adult
in canada? also, I need to have someone to bounce off my really strange
idea, and i was wondering, if anyone who has an open mind, and a sence of
humer can e-mail me, we can talk story
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:16:38 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: LC, Nietzsche, & evil
Michelle Mark wrote:
> I think LC is
>agnostic (ex: AMPH). Therefore he doesen't base his code on the foundation
>of religion, but on whatever he feels is right for him.
I think this does a disservice to atheists and agnostics. I think you'll
find that most atheists and agnostics have a moral code very much like that
of believers on major issues. Don't murder, don't steal, for example.
Being an agnostic does not, IMHO, explain or excuse LC's behavior.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
The Unnamed Faction
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:34:20 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: LC, Nietzsche, and evil....
At 10:00 PM 5/1/96 -0700, LC Fenster wrote:
>Sandra wrote:
>>if a Nazi was killed by someone, it would have been considered murder
>>of said Nazi.
>
>But that's just the point that Michelle was making. It still depends
>on how you define *murder*. ....the murder of Jews, gypsies, the
>handicapped, etc. was viewed as patriotic and praiseworthy by the Nazis
>and not as *murder* at all.
So should we just ignore that kind of thing and simply accept it as
just being the values of another culture? What about Jordan Manning
in JD? By his own moral values, killing blacks was perfectly okay.
Does that make it all right? What if he had been able to start his
race war? If he had succeeded, it would have been the majority of
America against the black people in America. Would we just say, well,
the culture of America has changed, and so it's okay to kill black people
now.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:58:00 -0500
From: John & Donna Spert <jjs@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Jane Doe, HF, FI
Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a while, but this is my first post (oh
no another newbie). Amy raised lots of good points most of which I
agree with but I wanted to put in my two cents on this one.
Amy said:
> Ummmm... well, *I* don't think so, actually. Killing Cal
> *fortuitously* provided the cure, but LC killed him in an act of pure,
> useless vengance. The disease had already spread; killing Cal would do no
> good at all, as far as LC knew when he did it, except perhaps soothe LC's
I don't believe this was an act of vengeance. I believe he was using his
knowledge of healing from the last time he was sick, Roman times. Then
the metaphysics of healing would have been an important part of the cure,
if not all of it. He faced that which had caused his illness. If he got
well then it was the correct cure. This is certainly not how we treat
disease today; different times, different beliefs. Screed did the same
thing (thought of healing in terms of his human days), when he said Nat
couldn't be a doctor because she didn't use leeches.
> sense of justice/vengance. What -- was he going to go tell all the dying
> vampires that he'd gotten the guy at fault, and that made it all better
No, I believe the nature of his beliefs are that each person would need
to face their own disease. I think it was angry and cruel to rant to
Natalie as a symbol of modern medicine. That's what fortuitously cured
the vampire community.
Donna
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 14:13:40 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: LC, Nietzsche, and evil....
Sandra posed the following intriguing question:
>So what does *LC* term evil? If he has his own moral code, then
>doesn't it follow that he has decided for himself that some things
>are "good" and some things are "evil"?
Never really thought about this before. We have some indications from
the episodes, though.
The senseless massacre by the "Cleansing Crew" in Can't Run Can't Hide.
Nick: "This isn't war. This is a crime!" LC: [very seriously] Yes.
It is.
Jack the Ripper, whose blood poisoned LC with its *evil* (Bad Blood);
and Hitler, whose aura was so *vile* it put him off (Jane Doe).
beyond that?
I think LC views breaking faith as a BAD THING (witness his disgust and
anger in Blood Money when Nick kills the Dauphin after collecting a
ransom on the basis of his promise to return his captive unharmed; and
his indignation in Be My Valentine when Nick accuses him of breaking
their *agreement* regarding the mortals he works with); however, I'm
not sure this rises to the level of "evil" in his value system.
He also views vampire hunters, vampire impersonators, and others who
might threaten the vampire community as *bad*, but I'm not sure he
views them as *evil*.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:49:20 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: LC, Nietzsche, and evil....
You wrote:
>So should we just ignore that kind of thing and simply accept it as
>just being the values of another culture? What about Jordan Manning
>in JD? By his own moral values, killing blacks was perfectly okay.
There's a distinction between one's personal moral values and cultural
moral values. Manning's views were his own sick views, not the views
of the society he lives in.
There is a concept called "cultural imperialism" which generally
refers to the predilictions of Westerners to impose their own cultural
morays on Eastern and Third World countries. This is what we've been
talking about.
>Does that make it all right?
Fwiw, I believe in each culture's right to form its own views, morays,
etc. but I also reserve the right to strongly oppose those views and to
agitate to change them by whatever means are at hand.
It may be considered perfectly acceptable in Chinese peasant society to
expose baby girls when they are born, but personally, I view this as
anathema.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:05:38 -0400
From: Jane Credland <janes@i.......>
Subject: Re: Jane Doe Spoilers
At 09:01 AM 5/2/96 -0700, LC Fenster wrote:
>Or perhaps there is a difference for LaCroix between carrying on an
>intellectual discussion with a brilliant psychopath, as in Trophy Girl,
>vs. someone whose motivation for killing is race hatred???
This makes sense to me. LaCroix has always struck me as someone who is
fascinated by what makes other people tick. He pries into psyches with
interest, trying to find which buttons he can push to make people do what he
wants. This is what makes him so incredibly good at manipulating everyone
around him.
On the other hand, we saw a different side of LaCroix in Fever. He was very
much aware of vampires as a race apart from the human race. Everything he
said in that episode pointed to someone who resents having to hide what he
is from the sea of humanity. He also drew parallels that delineated the
persecution of vampires through the centuries.
It seems to me that Hitler's race hatred would align him with those who have
persecuted vampires. IMHO, this would alienate LaCroix and set Hitler and
Jordan Manning apart from the psychopaths on his mailing list.
Jane (janes@i.......)
Raven ** Immortal Beloved ** M.B.D.T.K
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams
[W.B. Yeats}
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 19:45:20 -0700
From: AKR <r@w.......>
Subject: Spoiler: GVP, JD: Re: LC, Nietzsche, and evil....
On Thu, 2 May 1996, LC Fenster wrote:
> It may be considered perfectly acceptable in Chinese peasant society to
> expose baby girls when they are born, but personally, I view this as
> anathema.
And since "the forgotten Lisa" <g> wants to move our religion and morality
discussion back to the list, I will take this opportunity to say that
Laurie's example, like Laura's of roasting children, is one of those things I
personally consider Absolutely Wrong, and *anyone*, no matter their culture,
who thinks it is not wrong, Absolutely Mistaken.
Moving back to FK for relevance, I would personally say that what LC allowed
his troops to do to the barbarian (non-Roman) women in AMPH was Wrong, a
crime against humanity, even though it was practical and approved by his
superiors and society. And, both to bring in a spoiler and to show the
hideous-mild range of the scale, when Nick hypnotized his fellow cop in GVP,
taking away her free will just to get his own way, that was also Wrong, even
though other vampires would not regard it so, and even though it did
eventually help solve the case.
And at the time of the JD flashback, allowing the vile little man to live was
Right, no matter the real motivations that led to that outcome.
Just my thoughts... :)
**** Amy, Lady of the Knight (AKR) r@w....... ****
"For how do I hold thee but by thy granting?" --W.S. Sonnet 87
Knightie * Fleur-Booster * Light-Cousin * (Im)Mortal Beloved
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:59:42 -0400
From: Michelle Mark <Raindance2@a.......>
Subject: more LC/evil rantings
I wrote:
> I think LC is agnostic (ex: AMPH). Therefore he doesen't base his code on
the foundation of religion, but on whatever he feels is right for him.
and Margie replied:
>I think this does a disservice to atheists and agnostics. I think you'll
>find that most atheists and agnostics have a moral code very much like that
>of believers on major issues. Don't murder, don't steal, for example.
>Being an agnostic does not, IMHO, explain or excuse LC's behavior.
I don't think its a disservice at all, and I am BTW agnostic. Yes, most
athiests/agnostics have a system of values, which they derive from any
variety of sources...but not religion. I hesitate to use the term "moral
code" because morality is based in religion, and therefore, irrelavant as far
as athiests or agnostics are concerned. However, I did not mean to imply
that they had no values. The point I was trying to make is that LC has his
own code, does whatever he thinks is right for him to do, and that may not
excuse his behavior in your eyes, but it dosen't make him wrong. He just
has a *different* set of values. And I don't believe he should have to
explain or justify his actions because IMO, he is just being a vampire, and
being true to his nature. Which
is more than I can say for Nick, but don't get me started on that again :)
( I *like* Nick...really, I do!)
Cousin Michelle~CSS~Truly Depraved~Thong Snapper~Seducer~
SKL: "Faciemus ut Dewus Mountainus e Tuo Nasone Exeat!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:18:22 -0400
From: Ken Hart <Ken888888@a.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Jane Doe
I'm sorry I looked at the Sony site before viewing this ep, since it
blatantly spoiled the fact that Reese wasn't as out of control as he made
everybody (including Nick) think. I subconsciously kept waiting for Reese to
pull the rabbit hairs out of the hat, so to speak.
I agree with Amy that the monkey toy was some sort of "evolutionary allusion"
to the modern conflict and Manning's racism -- a bit heavy-handed, but
there's no other reason for the camera to have lingered as it did.
Why did LaCroix pull back from bringing the young Hitler across? The sudden
burst of conscience might seem hard to explain, unless you want to tie his
reaction to the Jack The Ripper fiasco in "Bad Blood." There, LaCroix sensed
the pure evil within the man, but too late to do anything about it (even
assuming he would have done something). Here, LaCroix senses something Very
Bad about the corporal, and he decides not to repeat his mistake of the
previous century.
Overall, this was a better-than-average police story, thanks to the Nat-Tracy
scenes, good action for Reese finally, and Nick's cute cat-and-mouse routine
with Manning toward the end.
Bonella, FK actually has shown snow once or twice in the past. In last year's
"A Fate Worse Than Death," for instance, it snowed while Nick and Schanke
were sitting in the Caddy on their stakeout.
A note for the old-timers on the list: Yes, I'm back -- the project that has
consumed my existence for the past two month is over. It's the new Yahoo!
Computing site, and it officially launched yesterday. I'm the senior editor,
and I'm quite proud of it. Feel free to take a peek at
http://www.yahoocomputing.com. (Note to AOL users: Use Netscape if possible.
Like anything with tables, it looks like Screed's old sneakers on the lame
AOL browser.) Now that the launch is over and it's a matter of daily
maintenance as opposed to creation, I can relax a bit and hang out with you
fine people as we watch these final episodes.
Ken Hart, Raven / Ken888888@a....... / http://www.xensei.com/users/khart
LaCroix: "'A father provides love, discipline, guidance, protection, and
support' -- That's not bad."
Nick: "He left out freedom." LaCroix: "So would I."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:18:05 -0400
From: Diane Shea <KerrRaven@a.......>
Subject: JaneDoeSpoilrs/Lighting, paper
Now that I've gone through more digests than I can remember today;
I just wanted to put in my vote for the lighting during LC's monologue this
ep as being the best all season. Normally I consider the blue and green
two-tone effect that we've been getting to be rather unappealing, as compared
to say, the less garish single blue or red of second season. But...this time
there was something so outrageous and completely artsy about the
bright-as-hell neon pink and blue, along with the eyebrows, that just spoke
to me and made me say WOW. No I'm serious. I mean, if you have to have
strange lights accenting LaCroix's features all the time, then go with some
pretty colors! Unlike many other shows I've watched, this one is normally
visually entertaining on a very basic level. In the wonderful opening theme
we've always been given an assortment of primary and secondary colors which
just shout emotion far better than drab realistic neutrals. The Raven of the
first and second season always had a cooling effect because of the blue,
green, and purple that dominated the place. It reflected its owner at the
time. Now there is more of a predominance of orange-red along with the blue,
green, and purple which puts this season's Raven into a hotter catagory,
suited to its new owner's more aggressive character. I never know what I'm
going to find as I watch those Raven scenes, but I can always expect to find
something interesting.
Now about that sketch of LC by the Corporal. I'm glad it was in keeping with
the understanding that Adolf was a BAD artist. Although I liked the
expression on LaCroix's face as he looked at it. He seemed truly amused,
almost like he was happily asking himself, "Do I really come across as
looking that arrogant?" And I too enjoyed the fact that they made the paper
look aged. A good job, there are even tiny holes in the creases so that it
looks as though it had been folded and unfolded one too many times. Probably
one of the best special effects I've seen on the show yet! :)
Happily awaiting Francesca!
--Cousin Diane
Eternal Seducer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:49:59 -0700
From: AKR <r@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Jane Doe, HF, FI
On Thu, 2 May 1996, Donna Spert wrote:
> sick, Roman times. Then the metaphysics of healing would have been an
> important part of the cure, if not all of it. He faced that which had
> caused his illness.
While, on the one hand, LC obviously has progressed *far* beyond the
metaphysics of Pompeii, on the other, this not only makes sense, it is
Consistent With The Dialogue! I don't feel like rewatching Fever just now,
but isn't that *exactly* what LC said in the morgue when Nat noted he wasn't
sick anymore? "I have looked Death in the eye, and he backed down," or
something? I still think it was vengence, but now that line has been
explained! :)
ObSpoiler: Ummmm... does everyone remember what happened the last time I
watched an episode without benefit of the lists? "Nevermore" ring any bells?
Well, I'm losing email access the night *before* AtA airs.... Scary, huh?
<eg>
**** Amy, Lady of the Knight (AKR) r@w....... ****
"For how do I hold thee but by thy granting?" --W.S. Sonnet 87
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:53:35 EDT
From: MS IDALIA KAKESAKO <NPYF15B@p.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Jane Doe (re: the Jane Doe)
Hi, all!
A few days ago Amy was wondering what Black people up in
Canada term themselves, as far as African-American or African-
Canadian. I'm wondering about that, too. Which brings me to my
question about the Jane Doe in "Jane Doe."
Did anyone else notice that on the file Reese (or somebody) held
up about the recently-departed doctor, that for her race it said
"African American"? Hello! She wasn't even AMERICAN!! She was
from the continent of Africa. (I don't remember which country.)
So why would she be called "African-American"?
Now, I know some people in the Americas consider themselves to
be American (since the continents here are North, Central & South,
after all) whether they are US citizens or not, but I find it odd that
a woman from Africa, who was returning to her country after studying
abroad could be called an American, especially since she was
attending med school in Canada. If she had dual (American)
citizenship, wouldn't she more likely be studying <in> the US?
Opinions, anyone? :)
Idalia Kakesako <NPYF15B@p.......>
digest-ed Light Cousin with NatPack sympathies
**"Be a Light Cousin! You get to admire Uncle AND
condemn him!" --Amy, inventor of the Light Cousins**
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:13:35 -0400
From: Beth Brown <BKBVA@a.......>
Subject: SPOLER: Francesca
Spoiler space?
Okay, I just had to write. I just got through watching "Francesca" on the DC
syndie. It's too early in the morning to get too detailed, and besides, it's
probably not fair this early in the weekend.
However.... This was great! Gillian Horvath seems to write the best
episodes! There are some really great scenes in here. Nick and Nat in the
morgue; Nick, Tracy, Reese and a shrink in Reese's office (Nick and Tracy's
reactions without looking at each other are priceless); the tag, which I
think I also saw coming.
Laurie posted earlier in the week, and she really had it right.
Just had to shout.
Beth
bkbva@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:28:24 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Francesca
I'm not going to do a detailed post 'cause I know most people
don't see it til Saturday, but....
once again, thank you Gillian Horvath.
Color me pretty happy -- this is a first class vampire FK episode.
And of course it has two sweet 'n juicy scenes of Vachon. The guitar shot
is about to become infamous among Vaqueras or Vachon-oglers or whatever
we're calling ourselves these days.
Nat's reaction as she listens to Nick describe the monkey that's
been on his back for the last 760+ years is pretty entertaining.
The woman cast as Francesca is really alluring... is she one of
the famous 37 Known Actors in Canada? I mean, she definitely looks like
she belongs in the vampire world.
The guy cast as Francesca needs to exfoliate and see one of those
season consultants about his color palette... I think maybe he's a Summer.
And the little tease at the end about Tracy is an absolute howl.
Oh, also, as a poet, I basked a little in the notion that a
vampire might savor the flavor... and then went.. oh, maybe not.
Ap.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:27:55 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Jane Doe, Flowers
Bonnella writes:
>is this the first snow we have actually seen in an ep?
No. There was lovely sparkling snow (even *falling* snow) in second
season's A Fate Worse Than Death.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 04:10:51 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Jane Doe (re: the Jane Doe)
The only file I remember seeing is the one "identified" black woman
from the previous murders (who was an undercover cop or something,
wasn't she?). When Tracy was describing the African doctor victim,
she held the file but the camera didn't show it to *us*, did it?
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 07:32:26 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Jane Doe (re: the Jane Doe)
At 12:53 AM 5/3/96 EDT, you wrote:
>
>Did anyone else notice that on the file Reese (or somebody) held
>up about the recently-departed doctor, that for her race it said
>"African American"? Hello! She wasn't even AMERICAN!! She was
>from the continent of Africa. (I don't remember which country.)
Hmm, that 's a good question. I don't know - that really was kind of stupid
- except that maybe African-American has become like Kleenex - no matter
what tissue you have you're gonna call it a Kleenex. I on the other hand
hate to say all that when describing myself - it takes too long to write and
far too many syllables (grin). I usually just say Dot. However, if pushed I
do say Black. The reason for it is to be able to show our pride in our
heritage as well as those who say Irish, Polish, etc. so the doctor
definitely wouldn't describe herself as American if she were African, but
assuming this was done after her death, and by some pencil pusher in the
office, all he would see would be her race and, as this has become generic
like Kleenex, African-American would automatically be put down.
Labels, labels and more labels. All they eventually do is get more
confusing, hence the problem mentioned above. You'd think they'd be a bit
more careful with a detail like that - except since they know the end is
coming, maybe they're not going over things that closely anymore (as if they
really did anyway-vbg).
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:47:31 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: More on LaCroix <was Re: SPOILER: Jane Doe, HF, FI>
>>the metaphysics of healing would have been an important part of the
>>cure. He faced that which had caused his illness.
Amy wrote
>this is Consistent With The Dialogue! ....isn't that *exactly* what LC
>said in the morgue when Nat noted he wasn't sick anymore? "I have looked
>Death in the eye, and he backed down," or something? I still think it was
>vengence, but now that line has been explained! :)
I think the line was, "I have looked Death in the eye tonight and called
his bluff," but that's close enough. Yes it does seem consistent with
the Roman metaphysics of healing. But I also think it had a lot to do
with LC's very high opinion of himself. He believes he is so powerful
that he can cause even Death to back down.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 18:09:45 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@o.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Jane Doe (th
MS IDALIA KAKESAKO wrote:
Np> Did anyone else notice that on the file Reese (or somebody) held
Np> up [snip] it said "African American"? She wasn't even AMERICAN!! She
Np> was from the continent of Africa. (I don't remember which country.)
Dare I hope South Africa?? We need more people from this end of Africa to be
mentioned! :)
Np> So why would she be called "African-American"?
Hey, here's another one. What do people whose ancestors came from Europe but
who were born in Africa call themselves? Euro-African? Sounds silly. Anybody
got any ideas? I think maybe the writers just didn't want to offend
anyone... but how they could do that is beyond me. Maybe they could have
just written "Nigerian" or "Zimbabwean" or "South African" :) and avoided
the whole thing!!
- Marina.
\\ "And tell me if you want to catch that feeling of redemption; //
// That feeling of redemption don't do much for me." - Tanita Tikaram \\
\\======Marina Bailey========tmar@f.......=======Dark Knightie======//
... You look like what the cat dragon ate.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:17:21 EDT
From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Jane Doe
In regards to "African-American" as race for a Kenyan studying in
Canada:
I think this was yet another example of an American writer just not
thinking. Michael Sadowski has been with the show since the first season
and has written some of my favorite scripts, but he's based in Los
Angeles and is presumably American.
I didn't catch the African-American reference, but it's on a par with
references to the FBI as if they had jurisdiction in Canada which has
happened several times. I don't remember who wrote Spin Doctor in the
first season, but I do remember Ger and Nigel at their joint Toronto
Trek appearance agreeing emphatically that Canadian mayoral elections
just don't go like that.
Of course, the whole premise of the cop plot in Dark Knight doesn't
work in Canada, where they don't have commericial blood banks.
A Toronto friend of mine tells me that FK has been known to refer
the intersections of streets that do not cross. Another Canadian friend
who works with me in the U.S., protested Father's Day with, "but we don't
have the mob in Canada."
I suspect they were trying so hard to be politically correct for US
viewers that they automatically said, "African-American." Still, I do
wonder, if that is the case, why Reese described himself as black in
several of his speeches. Possibly Blu Mankuma changed the lines?
Btw, for non-North Americans, "African-American" as a term for Americans
of Black African descent was coined by the Reverend Jesse Jackson. The
idea was to put less emphasis on race and more on ethnicity. His model
was phrases like "Italian-American." Up until then, black was normal
usage here. I suspect it still is in Canada -- any Canadians out there
want to tell us?
Trying hard not to step on anyone's toes because as a Southerner,
I'm all too aware that most people think all white Southerners are
racists,
Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:50:29 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Jane Doe
I think the file said "African-American" because she was a Jane
Doe and she was black and they naturally assumed she wasn't a foreigner.
Also, remember the line about assuming that unidentified black females
would be indigents or lower-class? If we buy into that (which I don't,
but then I live in a majority-black city where it's a little easier to
get over such assumptions), that's another reason to use that
locution.
Ap.
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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:29:07 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Jane Doe
At 12:17 PM 5/3/96 EDT, Cousin Lisa wrote:
>Trying hard not to step on anyone's toes because as a Southerner,
>I'm all too aware that most people think all white Southerners are
>racists,
>
I know, and that is another racist attitude (by the way you wrote very
well...and stepped on no one's toes) and I think Reese/Blu is like me who
just gets tired of wrapping my tongue around African-American. And yes, I
must admit, the first time I hear a southern accent, the hairs on my neck
raise just a bit. I've had experiences in the south which cause that
reaction...but I try very hard not to let it show. Me, who's married to a
white guy for the past 20 years, you'd think it wouldn't affect - but it
does-and I am ashamed that it happens. But Lisa, I'd worry more about your
cousinly attitudes than your southern accent!!!! (VBG)
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:56:20 -0400
From: Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: JD, HF, Body Count
>. As for Janette:
> -- two arsonists in HF (revenge, first feeding: drained)
> -- somebody in AFWTD? (haven't seen this yet...)
Janette didn't kill anyone in AFWTD. At first, you think she killed Mason,
the pimp, but then it turns out Celeste, the hooker did it. And the scene
in Human Factor is left vague, but you can assume she did it. So its either
one or none, leaving Janette the most "well behaved" of the Trio.
Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Cold Shower Sisterhood*Chiante Drinking Voyeur of the
Thong Throng*
High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved.
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a....... or CousinMel@p.......
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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 16:27:04 -0400
From: Celeste Hotaling-Lyons <celeste_hotaling-lyons@i.......>
Subject: Spoilers- Jane Doe
Subject: Time:3:15 PM
OFFICE MEMO Spoilers: Jane Doe Date:5/3/96
Cuz Lisa said:
>When reading Manning's book, LC seems to be rather disgusted. Is
>that because of the poor writing or because of the content of the
>book?
Given LC's previous quote "this is the man who writes greeting cards for the
Devil", I'd say it was the very, very poor writing that drew that look from
him. My husband nearly fell on the floor laughing at both the quote and the
final look.
Why did LC choose our boy?
I actually wrote about this in a fiction story I have yet to post (ye dead
ende got me)--my basic premise was that a Master vampire chooses his consorts
for their looks, (among a *myriad* of other reasons, of course). If you are
going to find yourself staring into the same face for a dozen centuries, you
don't want said face to get on your nerves eventually. I got the idea because
the first thing I noticed about Geraint WD was the utter changeability of his
looks--brush his hair forward, he looks cute & 14 years old. Slick it back,
he looks sophisticated. To paraphrase what I wrote: The sad Nicholas looks
almost entirely unlike the thoughtful Nicholas, who somehow manages to look
almost entirely unlike the happy Nicholas. I.e.; `foolish-looking with a
grin, noble with a frown, at his most handsome when dangerous, in a towering
rage.'
Gozer's Auntie Dianne said:
>Whoa... did that bit of logic make Gozer *"evil"* because he hunts for
>sport not food? Hold on a minute, you can call me six kinds of demon
>from hell, Sandra, but thou shalt *not* call the gimpy FK-charity cat
>"evil"! You take that back now! <frowns sternly>
Oh, but more than one truth was ever spoke in jest, but not this time. Alas,
Gozer the Gammy-Legged FK Charity Cat--whose Charity Zine *will* soon be
available, I swear--*is* quite aptly named after `the Destructor' in
Ghostbusters. In other words, he is quite, quite Evil, with a capital "E".
His fascination with the toilet alone is going to get him sent to hell when
his nine lives run out.
Yes...cute, but Evil. Just ask Newt. And Indy. Max is Evil, too--he *likes*
Gozer.
Back to topic... ah, the romantic image of vampires on a train, vampires on a
boat, etc. How film noir. Perhaps the guys had baggage, and I don't just
mean of the emotional variety. Then again, since you *can* ship your stuff
ahead, maybe they just liked going through the bits and pieces that make up a
life--taking a train may seem like an annoyance to us, whose lives are so
short one hates to waste the time in transit, and just want to *be* there, but
if you have all of time, it's a diversion. Time-saving means little to one
who has forever, I suppose. In Black Buddha, wasn't Vachon on the plane
simply because he `liked flying'--his words?
After the Titanic went down, I'm sure Nick cut his losses and vamoosed,
leaving his nice silk ties and cufflinks for the fishes, and didn't hang
around in a lifeboat waiting for sunrise. Which brings me to:
Nancy Fralic said:
>I just remembered that I had seen a Highlander recently where Tessa kids
>Duncan about last needing to get his tuxedo cleaned after the Titanic
>disaster. Does this mean they were both on the Titanic?
It has been my experience that *everyone* has been on the Titanic. Dr. Who,
that guy on Time Tunnel, Nicky, the Time Bandits, Duncan, you name them, they
were on it. It wasn't an iceberg that got the Titanic... it simply had too
many time-travelers on it and sank from the unexpected extra weight.
Celeste, a Cousine with Ravenette tendencies, or somesuch nonsense
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Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:06:29 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Jane Doe (th
Marina wrote:
:Dare I hope South Africa?? We need more people from this end of Africa to be
:mentioned! :)
I think it was Kenya or somewhere up there.
:I think maybe the writers just didn't want to offend
:anyone... but how they could do that is beyond me. Maybe they could have
:just written "Nigerian" or "Zimbabwean" or "South African" :) and avoided
:the whole thing!!
When she was found, all they knew was that she was chocolate colored.
(Humans come in several wonderful flavors: vanilla, chocolate, lemon and
cherry. Too bad people have to have such negative attitudes about the
colors.) They didn't know she was African until nearly the end. (By the way,
aren't Canadians Americans too? Just not the US variety.)
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
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