There are 7 messages totaling 436 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki (6) 2. Prayer: Updates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 20:43:09 -0400 From: Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......> Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki Thank you to both Stephanie Babbitt and McLisa for writing to me about this. There is now an update. Someone called "Dearjunie" (presumably the previously anonymous editor, who has now picked out a pseud) first left a comment on Kodia's talk page, and then deleted it and wrote a rather longer comment on my own talk page. This is the text of the comment she left on my talk page: ** ...Hi Greer, if you check your email, you will see the links for the specific "copyrighted material" that was referred to in the edit I made recently regarding the "mysterious" shutdown of Ms. Moser's site. In 2012~2013 I attempted to contact Mel Moser several times requesting takedown of the fiction and was ignored. Ms. Moser was given several chances and ample time to comply with the request. Finally I presented the info to Ms. Moser's ISP as she was in violation of their terms of service agreement for displaying copyrighted work that she did not have permission for (including the author's personal info) and the site was subsequently taken down. If Ms. Moser had chosen to remove the fics and their links the complaint would have been withdrawn and her site would have been put back up. She chose, however, according to her email to me after she finally got in touch with me, to let the site lapse without making the attempt to comply as she claimed she was no longer interested in running it any longer, and she assured me in that same email that the works in question would not be distributed to other sites. After that, however, she distributed the contents of her former website to Stephanie Kellerman's website - including the works that had gotten Ms. Moser's site shut down - and now I have sent a polite request to Ms. Kellerman requesting takedown of those fics. Ms. Kellerman is being given ample time and chances to comply, before the matter will then be brought to the attention of Ms. Kellerman's ISP, which will no doubt result in a site takedown until she has complied. I have also sent emails to yourself and Ms. Moser as well as Ms. Kellerman, hoping desperately that we can avoid having the ISP take down another site all because a few fics and links weren't removed. I have tried so very hard to be nice about this and give involved parties ample time, ample notice and ample chances to do the right thing, before being forced to resort to contacting ISP's for takedowns. It would be heartbreaking if such a valuable resources as Ms. Kellerman's site were also to be taken down because of such an easily fixable matter. Dearjunie. ** Well, I've checked my e-mail, as requested. So far, I've not got anything that I can identify as a message from Dearjunie. (I can't search in case it got trapped by a filter of some sort, since I don't know what address she's used.) This is not a pseudonym with which I am familiar. Nor do I know her real name, if that's what she wrote under. Nor do I know the stories she's referring to. I *do* know that I find her threats a bit irritating. Greer gwatson2@r....... http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 21:39:02 -0400 From: Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......> Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki Update. It appears that the reason I did not get an e-mail from Dearjunie is simply that she actually sent it to Gaylin's address. This is the text of Dearjunie's latest message to me. As it's on my Talk page, which is public, there's no breach of confidentiality. However, I have deleted the e-mail addresses. (If you want, you can find the correspondence at the bottom of the Talk page: http://foreverknight.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Greer_Watson.) ** Hi Greer, Thanks for responding so quickly :D I'm recovering from major abdominal surgery and really want this situation resolved as soon as possible. I thought it already had been and was pretty shocked as you can imagine, to find that it's happening all over again on a new website. I sent you the email at your [GAYLIN'S] addy, from my [DEARJUNIE'S] addy. I also 'cc'd' it to Ms. Kellerman's [DELETED] addy as well, in addition to the other email I have already sent her regarding this matter. I have also sent a copy of this email to Ms. Moser as well to the email addy she gave when she promised me my work would not be distributed to any other website (which she then distributed to another website). Ms. Moser's email from which I last heard from her in April 2013 is [DELETED]. Any assistance you can offer in helping the list of links/pages/works get removed/edited as needed would be very greatly appreciated. If you would like to send me a request via email (so that I know it's working) I would be more than happy to furnish you with copies of my email correspondance to and from Ms. Moser. Very Sincerely, Dearjunie 00:44, May 24, 2014 (UTC) ** At this point, Gaylin has got in touch with me. As she's on holiday, she only has intermittent internet access; but she has forwarded me Dearjunie's e-mail to her. These apparently are her complaints: "A) [Mel's] site had listed my married name - which I had never given permission for, B) her site had listed my personal email address - which I had never given permission for, and C) I am now a professional writer and those old fanfics are very much below the quality level I currently write at and as the copyright holder I wanted them taken down from the internet." Dearjunie apparently wants quite a bit of editing done, so I can appreciate why no one wants to tackle the job. It isn't just that she wants the stories themselves removed, but she also wants each index page (alphabetic by author, and by each title) to be edited to remove the story's title and author. What she expects either Gaylin or me to be able to do about it is utterly beyond me. We just work on the wiki. Neither of us has editing access to the archive Greer gwatson2@r....... http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 22:20:03 -0400 From: Laura Davies <bratling2@g.......> Subject: Prayer: Updates We really appreciate your prayers on our behalf. It's been a difficult few months, compounded by having to take in my 91 year old mentally ill grandmother, who passed away early Monday morning. Even now, well, when someone died, there's always a mess left behind that will take months to sort out. And honestly, I'm okay with it. She died peacefully and has all the people she lost back now. My church teaches that families can be together forever and it's been 29 years since my grandfather passed. She's with him, her daughter, my dad and mom, her brother and sisters who have already gone, her parents and Jesus now. And, well, it's about time someone in my family died from old age instead of some disease or another before their time. Now, on to Sarah. This is directly from my brother-in-law's facebook status update: "This past week has mostly been a good week. Sarah no longer has any real acute issues. She is still on antibiotics to fight the infection that put her in the ICU. She will be on that for another week. They will then do a culture to determine if they were able to get all the infection. If that comes up clear, then they will start the next round of chemo. So it will be at least two weeks until she gets the next chemo treatment. She is still battling all the side-effects of the cancer and operations, severe nausea, aching, pain, generally tired, etc. Since this started April 12th, she has only been at home for 5 days. As one can imagine that is really taking a toll on her. In the next couple of days, she will get to the point that as the doc. said she will be ready to leave the hospital but not ready to come home. She is so incredibly weak and is having nutritional issues that in her current state it would be practically impossible for me to take care of her at home. So they are looking at transferring her next week (Tues/Wed) to a rehab facility that can hopefully provide the care that she will need. The rehab facility is off of Windy Hill Rd. so still close to where I work. In addition and unfortunately, my wife’s 91 year-old grandmother passed away this week. Sarah was distraught that she wasn’t able to be there . . . So needless to say, right now the emotional battle is the toughest fight. I have a couple of potential individuals that I’m looking at for nannying my children. I’m very hopeful one will work out. That way, I’ll be able to relieve some stress from my immediate family and I’ll get the kids back close to me. Oh man, this is a mess. One foot in front of the other, each day just keep fighting, keep pushing, no matter how exhausted or how drained." I'd like to ask y'all to continue to keep her and us in your prayers. She still has three rounds of chemo to go. Thanks! Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 22:33:30 -0400 From: Karen Gunther <kaag@a.......> Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki As I remember from when I wrote fanfiction (and maybe my memory is fuzzy on this but I remember explictly granting permission for archiving), Mel did not add your work to the archive unless you gave permission, and she then posted it with the name that you posted to the list. Some of the stories are now 20 years old, and yes, there are things that I'm glad no longer pop up when you google me but to expect pages to be recoded after this time period is asking a LOT. ~Karen -----Original Message----- From: Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......> To: FORKNI-L <FORKNI-L@l.......> Sent: Fri, May 23, 2014 8:38 pm Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki Update. It appears that the reason I did not get an e-mail from Dearjunie is simply that she actually sent it to Gaylin's address. This is the text of Dearjunie's latest message to me. As it's on my Talk page, which is public, there's no breach of confidentiality. However, I have deleted the e-mail addresses. (If you want, you can find the correspondence at the bottom of the Talk page: http://foreverknight.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Greer_Watson.) ((edited out the rest)) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 00:13:49 -0400 From: Nick Chase <nchase@e.......> Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki If the magnitude of the editing is the issue, perhaps whoever has access to the files might consider just sending them to her for editing. ---- Nick On 5/23/2014 9:39 PM, Greer Watson wrote: > Update. > > It appears that the reason I did not get an e-mail from Dearjunie is simply > that she actually sent it to Gaylin's address. > > This is the text of Dearjunie's latest message to me. As it's on my Talk > page, which is public, there's no breach of confidentiality. However, I > have deleted the e-mail addresses. (If you want, you can find the > correspondence at the bottom of the Talk page: > http://foreverknight.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Greer_Watson.) > > ** > > Hi Greer, > Thanks for responding so quickly :D I'm recovering from major abdominal > surgery and really want this situation resolved as soon as possible. I > thought it already had been and was pretty shocked as you can imagine, to > find that it's happening all over again on a new website. I sent you the > email at your [GAYLIN'S] addy, from my [DEARJUNIE'S] addy. I also 'cc'd' it > to Ms. Kellerman's [DELETED] addy as well, in addition to the other email I > have already sent her regarding this matter. I have also sent a copy of > this email to Ms. Moser as well to the email addy she gave when she promised > me my work would not be distributed to any other website (which she then > distributed to another website). Ms. Moser's email from which I last heard > from her in April 2013 is [DELETED]. > > Any assistance you can offer in helping the list of links/pages/works get > removed/edited as needed would be very greatly appreciated. > > If you would like to send me a request via email (so that I know it's > working) I would be more than happy to furnish you with copies of my email > correspondance to and from Ms. Moser. > > Very Sincerely, > > Dearjunie 00:44, May 24, 2014 (UTC) > > ** > > At this point, Gaylin has got in touch with me. As she's on holiday, she > only has intermittent internet access; but she has forwarded me Dearjunie's > e-mail to her. > > These apparently are her complaints: "A) [Mel's] site had listed my married > name - which I had never given permission for, B) her site had listed my > personal email address - which I had never given permission for, and C) I am > now a professional writer and those old fanfics are very much below the > quality level I currently write at and as the copyright holder I wanted them > taken down from the internet." > > Dearjunie apparently wants quite a bit of editing done, so I can appreciate > why no one wants to tackle the job. It isn't just that she wants the > stories themselves removed, but she also wants each index page (alphabetic > by author, and by each title) to be edited to remove the story's title and > author. > > What she expects either Gaylin or me to be able to do about it is utterly > beyond me. We just work on the wiki. Neither of us has editing access to > the archive > > > > Greer > > gwatson2@r....... > > http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 04:36:17 +0000 From: nancykam@c....... Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki From: "Nick Chase" <nchase@e.......> > If the magnitude of the editing is the issue, perhaps whoever has access > to the files might consider just sending them to her for editing. That would not be a wise move. You don't just turn over a website to a stranger to edit. Truly, unless this person was amazingly prolific in her fanfic, editing the pages will not take long. It's easy enough to search the pages for the author's name or title of a story to delete them from the page. If this took more than an hour, I'd be surprised. It's not an unreasonable request. I know of another author who long ago turned pro and had her stories removed from the archive. That was before 2001, when Mel was still actively maintaining the archive, and apparently it was no biggie to comply. Nancy Kaminski ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 02:06:57 -0400 From: Nick Chase <nchase@e.......> Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki On 5/24/2014 12:36 AM, nancykam@c....... wrote: > From: "Nick Chase" <nchase@e.......> > >> If the magnitude of the editing is the issue, perhaps whoever has access >> to the files might consider just sending them to her for editing. > > That would not be a wise move. You don't just turn over a website to a > stranger to edit. Goodness, no, don't be ridiculous. I was talking about emailing her a couple of HTML files, not actually giving her access to the server. <snip> > It's not an unreasonable request. I know of another author who long ago > turned pro and had her stories removed from the archive. That was before > 2001, when Mel was still actively maintaining the archive, and apparently it > was no biggie to comply. On this, I agree; it may be a pain, but if you're going to maintain an archive, you have to maintain the archive. Now, that said, the index pages could also be put on a wiki for people to make their own changes and remove their own stuff. Can I say it's astounding, and a tribute to this community that we're still protective of 20 year old fan fiction? :) ---- Nick ------------------------------ End of FORKNI-L Digest - 23 May 2014 to 24 May 2014 (#2014-73) **************************************************************
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