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Digest - 23 May 2014 to 24 May 2014 (#2014-73)

Sat, 24 May 2014

There are 7 messages totaling 436 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki (6)
  2. Prayer: Updates

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 May 2014 20:43:09 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

Thank you to both Stephanie Babbitt and McLisa for writing to me about this.

There is now an update.  Someone called "Dearjunie" (presumably the
previously anonymous editor, who has now picked out a pseud) first left a
comment on Kodia's talk page, and then deleted it and wrote a rather longer
comment on my own talk page.

This is the text of the comment she left on my talk page:

**

...Hi Greer, if you check your email, you will see the links for the
specific "copyrighted material" that was referred to in the edit I made
recently regarding the "mysterious" shutdown of Ms. Moser's site.  In
2012~2013 I attempted to contact Mel Moser several times requesting takedown
of the fiction and was ignored. Ms. Moser was given several chances and
ample time to comply with the request. Finally I presented the info to Ms.
Moser's ISP as she was in violation of their terms of service agreement for
displaying copyrighted work that she did not have permission for (including
the author's personal info) and the site was subsequently taken down.
If Ms. Moser had chosen to remove the fics and their links the complaint
would have been withdrawn and her site would have been put back up.  She
chose, however, according to her email to me after she finally got in touch
with me, to let the site lapse without making the attempt to comply as she
claimed she was no longer interested in running it any longer, and she
assured me in that same email that the works in question would not be
distributed to other sites.  After that, however, she distributed the
contents of her former website to Stephanie Kellerman's website - including
the works that had gotten Ms. Moser's site shut down - and now I have sent a
polite request to Ms. Kellerman requesting takedown of those fics.  Ms.
Kellerman is being given ample time and chances to comply, before the matter
will then be brought to the attention of Ms. Kellerman's ISP, which will no
doubt result in a site takedown until she has complied. I have also sent
emails to yourself and Ms. Moser as well as Ms. Kellerman, hoping
desperately that we can avoid having the ISP take down another site all
because a few fics and links weren't removed.

I have tried so very hard to be nice about this and give involved parties
ample time, ample notice and ample chances to do the right thing, before
being forced to resort to contacting ISP's for takedowns.

It would be heartbreaking if such a valuable resources as Ms. Kellerman's
site were also to be taken down because of such an easily fixable matter.

Dearjunie.

**

Well, I've checked my e-mail, as requested.  So far, I've not got anything
that I can identify as a message from Dearjunie.  (I can't search in case it
got trapped by a filter of some sort, since I don't know what address she's
used.)

This is not a pseudonym with which I am familiar.  Nor do I know her real
name, if that's what she wrote under.  Nor do I know the stories she's
referring to.

I *do* know that I find her threats a bit irritating.



Greer

gwatson2@r.......

http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 May 2014 21:39:02 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

Update.

It appears that the reason I did not get an e-mail from Dearjunie is simply
that she actually sent it to Gaylin's address.

This is the text of Dearjunie's latest message to me.  As it's on my Talk
page, which is public, there's no breach of confidentiality.  However, I
have deleted the e-mail addresses.  (If you want, you can find the
correspondence at the bottom of the Talk page:
http://foreverknight.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Greer_Watson.)

**

Hi Greer,
Thanks for responding so quickly :D  I'm recovering from major abdominal
surgery and really want this situation resolved as soon as possible.  I
thought it already had been and was pretty shocked as you can imagine, to
find that it's happening all over again on a new website.  I sent you the
email at your [GAYLIN'S] addy, from my [DEARJUNIE'S] addy.  I also 'cc'd' it
to Ms. Kellerman's [DELETED] addy as well, in addition to the other email I
have already sent her regarding this matter.  I have also sent a copy of
this email to Ms. Moser as well to the email addy she gave when she promised
me my work would not be distributed to any other website (which she then
distributed to another website). Ms. Moser's email from which I last heard
from her in April 2013 is [DELETED].

Any assistance you can offer in helping the list of links/pages/works get
removed/edited as needed would be very greatly appreciated.

If you would like to send me a request via email (so that I know it's
working) I would be more than happy to furnish you with copies of my email
correspondance to and from Ms. Moser.

Very Sincerely,

Dearjunie  00:44, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

**

At this point, Gaylin has got in touch with me.  As she's on holiday, she
only has intermittent internet access; but she has forwarded me Dearjunie's
e-mail to her.

These apparently are her complaints:  "A) [Mel's] site had listed my married
name - which I had never given permission for, B) her site had listed my
personal email address - which I had never given permission for, and C) I am
now a professional writer and those old fanfics are very much below the
quality level I currently write at and as the copyright holder I wanted them
taken down from the internet."

Dearjunie apparently wants quite a bit of editing done, so I can appreciate
why no one wants to tackle the job.  It isn't just that she wants the
stories themselves removed, but she also wants each index page (alphabetic
by author, and by each title) to be edited to remove the story's title and
author.

What she expects either Gaylin or me to be able to do about it is utterly
beyond me.  We just work on the wiki.  Neither of us has editing access to
the archive



Greer

gwatson2@r.......

http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 May 2014 22:20:03 -0400
From:    Laura Davies <bratling2@g.......>
Subject: Prayer: Updates

We really appreciate your prayers on our behalf. It's been a difficult few
months, compounded by having to take in my 91 year old mentally ill
grandmother, who passed away early Monday morning. Even now, well, when
someone died, there's always a mess left behind that will take months to
sort out. And honestly, I'm okay with it. She died peacefully and has all
the people she lost back now. My church teaches that families can be
together forever and it's been 29 years since my grandfather passed. She's
with him, her daughter, my dad and mom, her brother and sisters who have
already gone, her parents and Jesus now. And, well, it's about time someone
in my family died from old age instead of some disease or another before
their time.

Now, on to Sarah. This is directly from my brother-in-law's facebook status
update:

"This past week has mostly been a good week. Sarah no longer has any real
acute issues. She is still on antibiotics to fight the infection that put
her in the ICU. She will be on that for another week. They will then do a
culture to determine if they were able to get all the infection. If that
comes up clear, then they will start the next round of chemo. So it will be
at least two weeks until she gets the next chemo treatment.

She is still battling all the side-effects of the cancer and operations,
severe nausea, aching, pain, generally tired, etc. Since this started April
12th, she has only been at home for 5 days. As one can imagine that is
really taking a toll on her. In the next couple of days, she will get to
the point that as the doc. said she will be ready to leave the hospital but
not ready to come home. She is so incredibly weak and is having nutritional
issues that in her current state it would be practically impossible for me
to take care of her at home. So they are looking at transferring her next
week (Tues/Wed) to a rehab facility that can hopefully provide the care
that she will need. The rehab facility is off of Windy Hill Rd. so still
close to where I work.

In addition and unfortunately, my wife’s 91 year-old grandmother passed
away this week. Sarah was distraught that she wasn’t able to be there . . .
So needless to say, right now the emotional battle is the toughest fight.

I have a couple of potential individuals that I’m looking at for nannying
my children. I’m very hopeful one will work out. That way, I’ll be able to
relieve some stress from my immediate family and I’ll get the kids back
close to me. Oh man, this is a mess. One foot in front of the other, each
day just keep fighting, keep pushing, no matter how exhausted or how
drained."

I'd like to ask y'all to continue to keep her and us in your prayers. She
still has three rounds of chemo to go.

Thanks!

Laura

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 May 2014 22:33:30 -0400
From:    Karen Gunther <kaag@a.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

As  I remember from when I wrote fanfiction (and maybe my memory is fuzzy on
this but I remember explictly granting permission for archiving), Mel did not
add your work to the archive unless you gave permission, and she then posted
it with the name that you posted to the list. Some of the stories are now 20
years old, and yes, there are things that I'm glad no longer pop up when you
google me but to expect pages to be recoded after this time period is asking
a LOT.


~Karen



-----Original Message-----
From: Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
To: FORKNI-L <FORKNI-L@l.......>
Sent: Fri, May 23, 2014 8:38 pm
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki


Update.

It appears that the reason I did not get an e-mail from Dearjunie is simply
that she actually sent it to Gaylin's address.

This is the text of Dearjunie's latest message to me.  As it's on my Talk
page, which is public, there's no breach of confidentiality.  However, I
have deleted the e-mail addresses.  (If you want, you can find the
correspondence at the bottom of the Talk page:
http://foreverknight.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Greer_Watson.)

((edited out the rest))


------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 24 May 2014 00:13:49 -0400
From:    Nick Chase <nchase@e.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

If the magnitude of the editing is the issue, perhaps whoever has access
to the files might consider just sending them to her for editing.

----  Nick

On 5/23/2014 9:39 PM, Greer Watson wrote:
> Update.
>
> It appears that the reason I did not get an e-mail from Dearjunie is simply
> that she actually sent it to Gaylin's address.
>
> This is the text of Dearjunie's latest message to me.  As it's on my Talk
> page, which is public, there's no breach of confidentiality.  However, I
> have deleted the e-mail addresses.  (If you want, you can find the
> correspondence at the bottom of the Talk page:
> http://foreverknight.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Greer_Watson.)
>
> **
>
> Hi Greer,
> Thanks for responding so quickly :D  I'm recovering from major abdominal
> surgery and really want this situation resolved as soon as possible.  I
> thought it already had been and was pretty shocked as you can imagine, to
> find that it's happening all over again on a new website.  I sent you the
> email at your [GAYLIN'S] addy, from my [DEARJUNIE'S] addy.  I also 'cc'd' it
> to Ms. Kellerman's [DELETED] addy as well, in addition to the other email I
> have already sent her regarding this matter.  I have also sent a copy of
> this email to Ms. Moser as well to the email addy she gave when she promised
> me my work would not be distributed to any other website (which she then
> distributed to another website). Ms. Moser's email from which I last heard
> from her in April 2013 is [DELETED].
>
> Any assistance you can offer in helping the list of links/pages/works get
> removed/edited as needed would be very greatly appreciated.
>
> If you would like to send me a request via email (so that I know it's
> working) I would be more than happy to furnish you with copies of my email
> correspondance to and from Ms. Moser.
>
> Very Sincerely,
>
> Dearjunie  00:44, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
>
> **
>
> At this point, Gaylin has got in touch with me.  As she's on holiday, she
> only has intermittent internet access; but she has forwarded me Dearjunie's
> e-mail to her.
>
> These apparently are her complaints:  "A) [Mel's] site had listed my married
> name - which I had never given permission for, B) her site had listed my
> personal email address - which I had never given permission for, and C) I am
> now a professional writer and those old fanfics are very much below the
> quality level I currently write at and as the copyright holder I wanted them
> taken down from the internet."
>
> Dearjunie apparently wants quite a bit of editing done, so I can appreciate
> why no one wants to tackle the job.  It isn't just that she wants the
> stories themselves removed, but she also wants each index page (alphabetic
> by author, and by each title) to be edited to remove the story's title and
> author.
>
> What she expects either Gaylin or me to be able to do about it is utterly
> beyond me.  We just work on the wiki.  Neither of us has editing access to
> the archive
>
>
>
> Greer
>
> gwatson2@r.......
>
> http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 24 May 2014 04:36:17 +0000
From:    nancykam@c.......
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

From: "Nick Chase" <nchase@e.......>

> If the magnitude of the editing is the issue, perhaps whoever has access
> to the files might consider just sending them to her for editing.

That would not be a wise move. You don't just turn over a website to a
stranger to edit.

Truly, unless this person was amazingly prolific in her fanfic, editing the
pages will not take long. It's easy enough to search the pages for the
author's name or title of a story to delete them from the page. If this took
more than an hour, I'd be surprised.

It's not an unreasonable request. I know of another author who long ago turned
pro and had her stories removed from the archive. That was before 2001, when
Mel was still actively maintaining the archive, and apparently it was no biggie
to comply.

Nancy Kaminski

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 24 May 2014 02:06:57 -0400
From:    Nick Chase <nchase@e.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

On 5/24/2014 12:36 AM, nancykam@c....... wrote:
> From: "Nick Chase" <nchase@e.......>
>
>> If the magnitude of the editing is the issue, perhaps whoever has access
>> to the files might consider just sending them to her for editing.
>
> That would not be a wise move. You don't just turn over a website to a
> stranger to edit.

Goodness, no, don't be ridiculous.  I was talking about emailing her a
couple of HTML files, not actually giving her access to the server.

<snip>

> It's not an unreasonable request. I know of another author who long ago
> turned pro and had her stories removed from the archive. That was before
> 2001, when Mel was still actively maintaining the archive, and apparently it
> was no biggie to comply.

On this, I agree; it may be a pain, but if you're going to maintain an
archive, you have to maintain the archive.

Now, that said, the index pages could also be put on a wiki for people
to make their own changes and remove their own stuff.

Can I say it's astounding, and a tribute to this community that we're
still protective of 20 year old fan fiction? :)

----  Nick

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 23 May 2014 to 24 May 2014 (#2014-73)
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