FORKNI-L
Digest - 27 Nov 2007 to 28 Nov 2007 (#2007-127)
Wed, 28 Nov 2007
There are 13 messages totalling 841 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. FK Holiday Card Exchange list
2. FK Question
3. Today's Birthday: November 27
4. Where would they be now? (8)
5. Where would they be now? Thought Provoking Questions, Aren't They?
6. Where are they now?
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Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:47:18 -0500
From: Cheryl Pillsbury <fknight420@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK Holiday Card Exchange list
Thank you for taking the time and patience to do it, it's greatly
appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:27:43 -0500
From: Cheryl Pillsbury <fknight420@c.......>
Subject: FK Question
1) Do I think LaCroix staked Nick?
No, he loved and respected him.
2) Did Natalie pass?
Yes, sadly.
3) Did Janette pass?
Yes
4) Their future?
Well, my friends know my series of FKT, and yes there is, but everyone has
their own version, FKT is mine with 16 books in the series.
My opinion only, so please don't get angry.
Cheryl / fknight420@c.......
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:58:45 -0600
From: eowyn23@j.......
Subject: Today's Birthday: November 27
Hi Y'all!
Today is Pins And Needles Day and the Birthday of: Janne (aka Alyssa J.
Flynn) kokuyo@f.......
You may send birthday greetings to Janne at the above email address.
Please NOT to the list!
Others who share Janne's birthday:
Caroline Kennedy-Schlossberg, Attorney/Lawyer
James Agee, Author
Anders or Andre Celsius, Scientist
Jimi Hendrix, Rock & Roll Singer
Cornelius Vanderbilt, Financier
Significant events on this day:
1885, Earliest photograph of a meteor shower made.
1889, Curtis P. Brady receives the first permit to drive an automobile
through Central Park in New York City.
1910, New York's Pennsylvania Station opened as the world's largest
railway terminal.
1945, C.A.R.E.: Cooperative for American Relief Everywhere was founded.
I hope you have a very Happy Birthday, Janne!
If you would like to be added to the birthday announcements, please send
your name, birthdate (no year needed) and email address to me,
eowyn23@j......., privately, and I'll be glad to add you.
Terri
eowyn23@j.......
GWDFC, FK X-Stitcher, Proud Survivor of FK Fic Wars 8-12, Texas Knight
Dreamers, Knighties List Owner, Keeper of the FK Birthday List
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:58:58 EST
From: Gaelin Wade <GaelinWade@a.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
In a message dated 11/27/2007 2:56:11 P.M. Central Standard Time,
fenix23fyre@y....... writes:
1) Do you think that LC did, indeed, stake Nick? 2) Did Nat die? Did she
somehow survive? 3) Some other ending?
----------------------------------
I'll answer these three together, since I think 1 is, in part, dependant on
2 which provides answers to 3.
In keeping with the character development of LC in Season 3, I'd say yes. LC
did stake Nick. As someone else said, Nick is LC's favorite and his love for
Nick is indeed selfish. But I think staking Nick would have been his one
unselfish act. Nick could never survive having killed Nat. LC knows this.
Now, if Nat survived, there would have been no need to stake Nick.
All that said, the storyline(s) could go in a multitude of directions.
-Nat dies. LC kills Nick. LC has to deal with his feelings about that.
-Nat dies. LC doesn't kill Nick. What would Nick do? (Personally, I think
he'd walk out into a sunny day.)
-LC kills Nick. Nat survives - as a vampire, of course. What happens now?
Does LC become her teacher? How does she feel knowing he killed Nick.
-Nat survives - as a human. Nick survives. What happens now? Do things go
back to the way they were? Does Nick leave so that Nat can move on with her
life?
4) What is Janette up to if you believe she wasn't killed in Human Factor?
What about LC nowadays?
--------------------------------
Janette's answers are much like the answers in 3. It'll depend how she
survived. As a human, she went back to her old new life. As a vampire, it's a
bit
tougher to decide. After getting a taste of being human again after 1000 yrs,
would she be able to go back to being a vampire and being happy? Part of me
thinks, she'd just end it. On the other hand, Janette is nothing if not a
survivor. She'd go on. Another club in another city. As a vampire, she'd opt
of a decadent lifestyle, a party crowd. As a human, she'd go for simple. A
French teacher in a small, private girl's school perhaps?
LC endures. If he killed Nick, he'd go on as if nothing happened. (Or at
least pretend to) Back to being the great puppet master of men. I think he'd
move beyond some small radio station. He'd aim for larger scale communications
control. Take over the media empire of someone like Rupert Murdoch. What
better than to control information? An Ad agency? Control what people think in
general.
Gaelin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:59:28 -0500
From: Deborah Hymon <debh@e.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
on 11/27/07 3:55 PM, Kristen Fife at fenix23fyre@y....... wrote:
> 1) Do you think that LC did, indeed, stake Nick?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! LC would never give Nick up, not even for death! I truly
think even in a fit of anger, LC would never 'kill' Nick; torture yes, kill
no.
> 2) Did Nat die? Did she somehow survive?
YES!!! NAT SURVIVED!!! In my 'Second Chance' story she survives, only passed
out from lack of blood; Nick's love for her stopped him before causing her
irreversible medical damage or killing her.
> 3) Some other ending?
Also, in my 'Second Chance' story Nat survived, but still loved Nick,
remained loyal and faithful to him for almost 10 years, even with him gone
from her life. She finally decided to make some life changing decisions
about her future--only for Nick to finally return, and give Nat one
choice--to love Nick and be with him. Years earlier, Nick left after Nat
passed out, to protect her, due to LC's threats.
> 4) What is Janette up to if you believe she wasn't
> killed in Human Factor? What about LC nowadays?
Janette is back in the city she truly loves--Paris. I see her designing a
line of clothing, but doing so anonymously without anyone personally knowing
the designer. This way Janette can continue with her career beyond the 10-12
year usual stay due to aging. She also has a bar, 'The Refuge' where she
takes in as usual, misfit vampires and some mortals.
LC has caused so much chaos with his children's lives, especially the
Nick/Nat relationship, that the Enforcers have given him a warning. He's
keeping a low profile, waiting to reemerge with more threats and meddling
than ever. He is just waiting to cause more grief for Nick! <LOL> For now,
he's relocated to Seattle, hosting another radio show with a 'gothic' theme.
This time instead of the 'Nightcrawler' he's 'Father Night, giving advice to
all my lost children'. Dialogue: "My children, come to me, embrace my
teachings, for I am the truth, the one to give your souls the relief you
desire.' (Oh, so love LC !)
>
> So, what would you like to see in the way of 10-15
> years later?
NICK & NAT together. However, I don't want to see either as mortal
(eventually they'll die). If Nat doesn't become a vampire, then perhaps her
taking a bit of Nick's blood will give her the immortality without becoming
a vampire! I want to see how Nick initiates her into the vampire community,
how she deals with being immortal, even if not a vampire, and how can they
possibly consummate their love and desire for a life as close to 'mortal
normal' as possible.
>I've got my own ideas forming, but I want
> to know what fans would like to see =)
>
> Kristen Fife, Author
> http://tinyurl.com/2wgmdg
> In Memory of Tuffer -1/9/02-11/15/07
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:35:33 -0700
From: Walt <wdoherty5@c.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
1) Do you think that LC did, indeed, stake Nick?
2) Did Nat die? Did she somehow survive?
3) Some other ending?
4) What is Janette up to if you believe she wasn't killed in Human Factor?
What about LC nowadays?
So, what would you like to see in the way of 10-15 years later?
Kristen Fife, Author
Interesting questions. I've pondered them much myself.
But, as Cheryl said, "everyone has their own version".
One of the interesting things about "Last
Knight" is that none of the protagonists is shown
definitely have died. Can you see an opening here?
I see "Last Knight" as a failed two parter,
that it was conceived as a season-ending cliff
hanger (much like "Who Shot JR?"), with the
resolution to come with the opening of the next
season. Unfortunately . . . .
We don't really if Natalie is dead, just that
Nick thinks she is. We see LaCroix bringing down
the club, but we don't see it connect. Hmmmm.
What does that mean?
As much as we love "Forever Knight", it
was a TV show, and as such was subject to the
uncertainties of schedules, sponsors, networks,
actors and their availability, and (of course) ratings,
etc.
Presumably, Wyn Davies, as star of the
show, would come back. You couldn't have
Forever Knight without the Knight! And, Disher
too. She was effectively been the co-star; and the
major plot interest was their relationship.
I think we could assume that the other actors
would return. Even Tracey, it would be no trick to
re-write her part of the script.
Pllus, if LaCroix could survive being staked
then Vachon could have, too. (After all, didn't
Tracy pull the stake out?)
In order for all this to happen however,
Natalie would have to survive, and Nick would
also.
So, do I think LC staked Nick?
No.
Did Nat survive?
Yes
Other endings?
Only if one of the actors did not return and
had to be written out.
Janette?
Survived as a vampire, went on to run
another refuge in Paris. (PS:she wasn't LaCroix's
fledgling anymore, she was Nick's.)
LaCroix
I think LC would have laid low for a while.
Well, there are some good plot lines to be
developed there.
Nick and Nat
Probably put a big crimp in their
relationship. Why, it would take an entire season
for them to work it out. ;-)
The problem with TV shows is people want
to see more of their favorite characters and see them
as they've pictured them. The characters cannot
really grow or change - if they do, they cease being
the characters we love. If Nick were to come to
grips about being a vampire and get over his
"angst", where would we be? We might be glad
he's getting his act together, but who wants to see a
series about a well adjusted vampire who's content
with his lot and his life? ;-)
So, if Forever Knight picked up from where
Season III left of, a season IV would be pretty much
the same. Let's face it: if the problems are solved or
resolved, then the show ends.
10 years down the road
Something's gotta give. Nat's getting older
and Nick ain't. Time for someone to move on.
15 years
Only Gunsmoke has gone on that long.
Changes in everyone's lives. Just think where any
of us were 15 years ago.
There are a million ways to go after "Last
Knight". I think the series would have continued
pretty much the same. But, while some fanfic may
be outrageous, some is very good. I particularly
liked the "Virtual 4 th Season"; but they are all fun.
Walt Doherty
Phoenix, AZ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:13:09 -0800
From: teri d <darius4evr@y.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
--- Lyn Palmer <wizkid2u@b.......> wrote:
> I'll refresh everyone's memory.... ;-P
>
> Nobody died. Nobody EVER died.
LOL! Thank you! If somebody hadn't said that, I was gonna have to! ;)
All these years, and I'm still firmly planted in DenialLand! :D
As for where they'd be.....? Sorry, quarter finals start tomorrow and
I'm too tired from studying to think!
~Teri~
Check him out!... http://www.benbassfanclub.com/
Proud Vaquera/Vachon's vassal/Defender of Brown-eyed Vamps
V-loop/Vaqdreams/benbassfanclub/T+V/DP/Fanatic Listmom #2
and OFFICIAL Lisa Ryder Fan Club Member #5!!! :o)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:15:21 -0800
From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
> 1) Do you think that LC did, indeed, stake Nick? 2) Did Nat die? Did she
> somehow survive? 3) Some other ending?
I personally think that LC did indeed stake Nick. He was deeply touched when
Nick told him that he was his closest friend. And then he asked for
death---and to a Roman, helping a friend commit suicide was an honor and
almost a duty. It was considered an act of ultimate friendship. I think
Lacroix would have reverted to his essential nature, to his roots, and
despite loving Nick, would honor his request.
As for Nat, I think Lacroix would leave her to her fate. I think he regarded
her as one of the causes of Nick's discontent, and despite the services she
rendered to the vampire world (the cure, covering up deaths, and so on) in
the end he would not lift a finger to save her. If she lived long enough to
be found by some rescuer, fine---but he wasn't going to help.
I think the ending as portrayed in LK was perfect for the series. Having
such a tragic ending sets FK apart from most series. How banal to have
everyone live happily ever after! And how true to the trends in the third
season to have everything simply go tragically, horribly wrong. Nick was a
tragic hero, doomed to fight valiantly but in the end lose to forces he
couldn't overcome despite his best efforts. He was flawed, Natalie was
flawed, and the universe was against him.
What will the survivors do in the future? I like the idea of Lacroix running
a media empire. It suits him. As for Janette, I can see her withdrawing from
the world for a while, living in a large city such as New York, London, or
Paris. Eventually she might open another club, but I think she will need a
few decades to recover from the tumult of emotions and insanity that Toronto
became.
Nancy Kaminski
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:02:01 -0800
From: Laurie of the Isles <laudon1228@y.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
--- Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......> wrote:
> 1) Do you think that LC did, indeed, stake Nick?
Nigel Bennett has said that he believes LaCroix did
stake Nick, that in his opinion, Nick finally "won".
I consider LaCroix' alter-ego the final word on the
subject.
> 2) Did Nat die? Did she somehow survive?
I don't think so, given the above, I very much doubt
LaCroix would have staked Nick if he sensed even a
chance that Natalie was alive.
> 3) Some other ending?
I don't see any other ending
> 4) What is Janette up to if you believe she wasn't
> killed in Human Factor?
I remember being confused by Human Factor, but I think
I also remember that the FORKNI-L consensus, or
possibly inside info, was that Nick brought her back
across. If that's the case, since we didn't see her
again, she obviously fled as far as she could from her
new "sire". It would seem that she couldn't forgive
him. I would think that her instinct in such a
situation would be to return to Europe, most likely
France.
> What about LC nowadays?
After staking Nick, I think LaCroix' instinct would be
to try to reconnect with Janette. Since Janette had
become human, and presumably Nick then brought her
back across, the sire-childe "psychic" bond isn't
there anymore, but I would think that 1000 years of
association with Janette would give him an edge in
figuring out where she would have gone.
Laurie of the Isles
<Laudon1228@y.......>
http://1-mad-squirrel.livejournal.com/
Thank you first responders!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:12:28 +0100
From: CousinLucilla <cousinlucilla@f.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
Couldn't have said it better! It's the tragedies that stick in our
mind, not the happy endings (re most of the works we consider
classics don't end with weddings bells and a white picket fence).
Would we still discuss FK, let alone write fanfic if it ended well -
I doubt it.
Am 28.11.2007 um 09:15 schrieb Nancy Kaminski:
>
> I think the ending as portrayed in LK was perfect for the series.
> Having
> such a tragic ending sets FK apart from most series. How banal to have
> everyone live happily ever after!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:22:11 -0500
From: Julia Kocich <jkocich@g.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now?
I understand why many fans dislike where "Last Knight" leads us. But all of
the third season is about losses, in one way or another. I believe LaCroix
is the last one standing and, in his world view, Nat and Nick have "won" by
dying together.
The interesting question is, why does he go on? I suspect even he considers
existence, at this point, merely a bad habit, but one that's not worth the
trouble of giving up <g>. Nor would he allow himself the bathos of
sentimental self-sacrifice.
I suspect he's gone north, and is financing research to counteract global
warming: merely out of self-interest, of course -- less ozone, more sun, is
not good for an ancient vampire's complexion.
Cheers,
Julia
--
Julia Kocich
jkocich@g.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:53:24 -0700
From: Walt <wdoherty5@c.......>
Subject: Re: Where would they be now? Thought Provoking Questions, Aren't They?
From: "Nancy Kaminski" <nancykam@c.......>
> I personally think that LC did indeed stake Nick. He was deeply touched
> when
> Nick told him that he was his closest friend. And then he asked for
> death---and to a Roman, helping a friend commit suicide was an honor and
> almost a duty.
- - - - -
If this were about a TV show, it would have continued as more of the same.
If it were about real people (vampire or otherwise),
LaCroix may or may not have staked Nick.
A. As Nancy said, he was a Roman general and
this would have been a very Roman thing to do
as well as being honorable and noble.
B. LaCroix was a psychological abuser, a bully of
the first order. He might have just made Nick
live in order to torment his 'toy' some more.
Whoever said that if Natalie did not survive,
Nick would walk into the sun, is right.
If Natalie does survive, though, I think she'd
be very upset with either Nick, LaCroix, or both.
If both survive, what happened would either cement
their relationship, so that 10 years later they would still
be a couple - a struggling couple, but a couple--;
or, it would have destroyed their relationship and
while they *might* remain friends, Nick would eventually
have to move on, and Natalie get on with another life.
If the relationship persevered, I think LaCroix might
have simply gone away for 50 years, basically so
he wouldn't have to deal with them. After all, what's
50 years to an immortal?
Now, that's what we THINK would have or might have happened.
What would we LIKE to have happen?
Walt Doherty
Phoenix, AZ
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:05:42 EST
From: Lori Isabella <LDukie913@a.......>
Subject: Re: Where are they now?
In a message dated 11/27/2007 4:01:31 P.M. Central Standard Time,
LISTSERV@l....... writes:
1) Do you think that LC did, indeed, stake Nick?
2) Did Nat die? Did she somehow survive?
3) Some other ending?
4) What is Janette up to if you believe she wasn't
killed in Human Factor? What about LC nowadays?
Hmmm. Good questions!
Personally, I have always believed that "Last Knight" was like "Curiouser
and Curiouser" and was a dream/hallucination by Nick from the point that Tracy
dies and forward.
The parallels between the two episodes has been discussed ad nauseam here in
the past so I won't go into that now.
But to answer the questions...
Do I think LC actually staked Nick? No
Did Nat die? Not by Nick biting her in that episode.
Did she survive? In the imaginary world where FK continues past LK it would have
depended on what network had the show (USA would eventually have "killed" her
to replace her with a more male 18-35 demographically appealing actress) and
budgetary limitations.
Some other ending? If LK had been a hallucination, Nick would have awakened
after the staking and things would have continued. He would still work for
Reese, he would have gotten another partner that would be cast to appeal to whatever
the home network's target audience was, Nat would still be (possibly) be the coroner,
etc. In my mind the show would have ended in one of two ways... Nick becomes mortal
again and is finally happy (if the writing got lighter) or Nick finally abandons his
quest to become mortal and is forced to move on (if the writing got darker.)
What is Janette up to....? Personally, I think Nick would have let her
go/die but LaCroix certainly would not have hesitated to re-turn her. At that
point the possibilities become endless. She could be the main character on an
FK spin off series where she (like Nick) is seeking to regain her mortality but
with the added spin that she a single parent raising a human child. If LaCroix
was the one who brought her back and she was really angry about it she could become
a central figure in some kind of faction war between vamps...
If Nick was the one who brought her back she could turn on him and become
his worst nightmare for the duration of the series.
What about LaCroix today? I think he would definitely be alive and stay a
vamp. As long as Nick is a vamp I think LC would stay near him. I think he would
continue to grow and develop but the direction he would take would depend of
the changing tone of the entire show.
Just to throw this "out there" for everybody to consider and discuss...
LaCroix says that he did not die when Nick staked him because he was "too old and
powerful". Maybe vamps in the FK universe that are old and powerful can some
how assume other bodies if they are somehow genetically compatible? This would
certainly explain a few things like why LC's hair is a different color after
season one, how Divia got from the middle east to Toronto so quickly and seemed
to have knowledge of the present day world, why Divia seemed to "grow" in the
time between the loss of Pompeii and her appearance in Toronto. Adopting this
somewhat cheesy premise would allow for us to get new FK even now, so many
years later. Nat looks older because she IS older, LC doesn't look older
because Nigel has a picture in his attic that ages for him (seriously, NB didn't
look that much different the last time I saw him), Nick is older and much heavier
because LC did stake him and he inadvertently took over another body (ooh more to
angst about). Divia could come back again only this time in the form of a grown
woman. ETC...
Lori
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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 27 Nov 2007 to 28 Nov 2007 (#2007-127)
***************************************************************
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
