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Digest - 8 Nov 2006 to 9 Nov 2006 (#2006-47)

Thu, 9 Nov 2006

There are 15 messages totalling 456 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Is this a FK Moment???
  2. Sunlight & Mr. Stoker (7)
  3. Trophy Girl
  4. Blu Mankuma sighting + FK footage
  5. Fan Creations VS. Actual Show (5)

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Date:    Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:58:03 +0000
From:    Luicia <luicia1705@y.......>
Subject: Is this a FK Moment???

I was going over some websites for college when I came across this link
http://blog.wired.com/tableofmalcontents/2006/11/bad_sf_show_ste.html
it was basically an article/opinion piece about myspace.com and what it's
done to an indie band but the bit that did catch my eye was reference to
some letter campaign launched by fans of an Canadian vampire cop tv show...
can't for the life of me think what the name of that show it could be ...
<WEG>   I think you guys are famous for mini-media revolutions LOL
  Congratulations!!!
  Luicia

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 00:22:48 -0500
From:    Don Fasig <argent@c.......>
Subject: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

Today (Wednesday) is Bram Stoker's birthday, which got me thinking a
bit about vampires and sunlight.

I may have it wrong, but I'm under the impression that our modern
ideas about vampiric characteristics stem largely from Mr. Stoker's
work.

Now we come to the crux of it. In the book, Dracula's powers were
reduced during the day, but he wasn't harmed by sunlight. So why is
it such a common trait, including for FK vampires, to be destroyed by
sunlight?

Maybe my question is best directed at the authors on the list, is it
simply that the vulnerability is a convenient device? Nick flirting
with the blinds in his loft to illustrate his despair or self-
loathing? LaCroix demonstrating his power to Nick by braving it
almost disdainfully (wish I could remember which episode)?

Of course the FK PTB weren't terribly consistent on the matter. Nick,
LaCroix, and Janette often smoldered but that was about it. Other
vampires (ex the vietnamese vamp and the suicidal playwrite) burst
into flames and were almost immediately consumed. In the
aforementioned episode, LaCroix seemed almost casual about his
exposure, while in another (The Hunted I think) he was so desperate
to elude the sun that he was willing to abandon Janette rather than
risk the few seconds necessary to help her along.

Now that I'm going on about literary devices and vampiric
qualities... Why don't FK vamps share that common vampiric need for
dirt, their native soil nor any other? Too inconvenient? Not sexy
enough?

Hmmmm.

L8r

Don  ----,-'<@
argent@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:38:57 -0800
From:    Brian <bwaichu@y.......>
Subject: Trophy Girl

I watched this episode tonight, and it gave me a lot of insight into my one
buddy's desire for women.  He doesn't want to commit.  He wants to slowly
win a woman over only to move onto the next.  And he takes the whole process
slowly.  That kinda creeped me out when I was watching the ep.

The episode really brings to light the power of the chase.


------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:16:23 -0700
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

> Dracula's powers were reduced during the day, but he wasn't harmed by
sunlight. So why is
> it such a common trait, including for FK vampires, to be destroyed by
sunlight?

I believe it goes all the way back to Klaus Murnau's film, Nosferatu.

>Why don't FK vamps share that common vampiric need for
> dirt, their native soil nor any other? Too inconvenient? Not sexy enough?

Too hard to explain. For whatever reason, the whole "native soil" concept in
vampire movies seems to be primarily in Dracula movies, and not even in all of
them. Therefore, you can't assume that the audience is already familiar with
it, whereas the lack of reflection, reaction to crosses & crucifixes, and
sensitivity to sunlight are familiar from being seen in all kinds of vampire
movies.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 00:52:10 -0600
From:    "Stone, Barbara" <STONEB@g.......>
Subject: Blu Mankuma sighting + FK footage

Tuesday night I happened on Sci-Fi's "Dead Like Me"--apparently eps. 1 & 2.  In
the first ep. Blu Mankuma (capt., 3rd season) appeared as a "grim reaper" on the
verge of retirement and the last "person" to see the heroine before she died and
became an undead, grim reaper.  There was also a sequence of flashes of scenes
(don't remember the context because I had just started watching & had become
distracted) and one of them was taken from the scene always shown during the end
credits of FK.  I think.  It was only on for a split second.  But it was *very*
familiar.  If it wasn't that one, then it was another bit of stock FK sunset
footage. Alas, I did not have the VCR running. Sony came up during the end
credits, so that would explain how they got to use the scene.

B. Stone

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:20:48 +0000
From:    Luicia <luicia1705@y.......>
Subject: Re: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

If you go by Stoker's example, you need to remember that Dracula wasn't bitten.
That could be used as an explanation as to why the whole sun deal didn't affect
him in the same way as other vampires are in other stories.  Dracula turned on
his own will and he created children.  So while he had his native soil around
him he was safe but because his children were not of his soil or blood
completely, it could be said that this is why they suffered the burns of the
sun and not the limitations that Drac did.  With Lacroix and his attitude to
the sun, maybe his condition changed as he matured. The writers never did ffully
explain the differences between the elders/ancients and the others - it was just
given that the older ones were more powerful that the younger ones could be.  Or
even his obsession with Nicholas could be blamed - he never did seem so
controlling over Janette.
Luicia
"Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans" John Lennon

----- Original Message ----
From: Don Fasig <argent@c.......>
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Sent: Thursday, 9 November, 2006 5:22:48 AM
Subject: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

Now we come to the crux of it. In the book, Dracula's powers were  reduced
during the day, but he wasn't harmed by sunlight. So why is  it such a common
trait, including for FK vampires, to be destroyed by  sunlight?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:50:59 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Re: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

-----Original Message-----
>Now we come to the crux of it. In the book, Dracula's powers were
>reduced during the day, but he wasn't harmed by sunlight. So why is
>it such a common trait, including for FK vampires, to be destroyed by
>sunlight?

I think this started with the Murnau film Nosferatu. I personally like the way
FK strikes a balance, with the older vampires merely getting burned and the
smoking effect.

My guess is that they wanted Nick to have some everyday vulnerabilies. I mean,
how often is he going to meet a crazed perp who happens to be armed with a
sharp, pointed stick instead of a gun? <g>


>Of course the FK PTB weren't terribly consistent on the matter.  <snip>

A large helping of sharp cheddar here, and I can think of ways around this. It
might depend on the strength and/or angle of the sun. :)

>Now that I'm going on about literary devices and vampiric
>qualities... Why don't FK vamps share that common vampiric need for
>dirt, their native soil nor any other? Too inconvenient? Not sexy
>enough?

Actually this is in Stoker, where the count has soil from Transylvania at his
English stronghold, Carfax. The need is, I think, to sleep in or on it rather
than to be on it. It's possible that there's a layer of Brabant under Nick's bed.
We never saw Janette and LC's living quarters, but I suppose they might have
similar arrangments.

>
>Don  ----,-'<@
>argent@c.......

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:47:25 -0500
From:    "Phillips, Tim" <Tim.Phillips@s.......>
Subject: Re: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

>Now we come to the crux of it. In the book, Dracula's powers were
>reduced during the day, but he wasn't harmed by sunlight. So why is it
>such a common trait, including for FK vampires, to be destroyed by
>sunlight?
	I think it has a lot to do with it being a story device.
	The show is called Forever Knight after all.   And that name was
doubtlessly chosen because it sounds like Forever Night.  It is a play
on words that accurately depicts the main character...a former knight
who is now literally trapped in a physical and mental darkness that will
last effectively forever.  The only "cure" for vampirism that exists as
the series starts is sunlight.  Walk out into the day and end it all.

	Vampires in fiction are also generally a very powerful
character.  Making them vulnerable to sunlight explains why they haven't
totally overrun the world yet.  There is an interval every day where you
are totally safe and they are very vulnerable.

	I think we'd all agree that FK's show bible was not followed
religiously.  Things happen that are inconsistent because it is
easier/more dramatic for the story to unfold that way.  This is why in
one episode a vampire disappears to ash from a few moments contact with
the sun...and in another is able to rush down the street to their car
and jump into the trunk while simply trailing smoke.

	When FK was created, I think they opted to use those eliminates
of the mythology that "fit" the show.  Nick doesn't sleep in a coffin.
He doesn't need his native soil.  He can't shape-shift to become a bat
or a cloud of fog.  They picked out those elements that they wanted to
use and ignored the rest as "superstition".

	Tim

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:34:18 +0000
From:    Elena Gwynne <elena_gwynne@h.......>
Subject: Fan Creations VS. Actual Show

I read a lot of FK fanfic, and I admit that I haven't seen every episode, so
I'm wondering which of the common concepts of fanfic actually have evidence
in the shows.

Nick's charitable donations? bonds with Lacroix or Janette etc? Are there
other concepts which have become accepted as a part of fanfic but weren't
actually a part of the show?

Finduilas
http://fin.yserve.net
Updated on April 30
http://www.livejournal.com/users/endaewen/
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/761957/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:49:14 -0500
From:    "Phillips, Tim" <Tim.Phillips@s.......>
Subject: Re: Fan Creations VS. Actual Show

> I'm wondering which of the common concepts of fanfic actually have
evidence in the shows.

Nick's charitable donations?
	It has been embarrassingly long...but I'm positive there is an
episode somewhere where we learn that there is a charitable group called
the Brabant Foundation that was created by - and still controlled by -
Nick.

> bonds with Lacroix or Janette etc?
	In the show, it is mentioned numerous times that members of a
vampire "family" can sense each other.  Nick does know when LaCroix is
around (unless it was convenient for the plot for him not to notice
that).  Nick and Janette do speak of an empathic connection.

> Are there other concepts which have become accepted as a part of
fanfic but weren't actually a part of the show?
	Depending upon the Forever Knight faction...I'd say yes.  The
fiction community has often "expanded" upon what was available in the
show.  If an idea is popular - Nick is known as The KnightMare within
the police force, Tracy has several tattoos and keeps a pink
Harley-Davidson for when she is "stepping out" - they become common
within that faction's literature.

	Tim

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:37:40 -0700
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: Fan Creations VS. Actual Show

> Nick's charitable donations?
The episode Blood Money has the charitable De Brabant Foundation; I'm pretty
sure that it's the only episode to mention it.

One concept which occurs only in fanfic is the idea that young vampires are
"fledglings" in need of special protection & training. True, Lacroix is very
protective toward Nick, but there's no evidence that this is generally true of
all vampires.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:25:56 -0800
From:    Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......>
Subject: Re: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

Well, it *is* fantasy all in all. The one that they
use that both interests/irritates me is the ability
fly. Yes, it is vastly usable (Only the Lonely comes
immediately to mind), but they made their vampires so
much more "stripped down" than, say, Dracula. Just
something I ponder when writing my own original novel.
(My vamps DON'T fly and I have what I hope is a
plausible explanation for not going out in daylight
which has to do with ultra-sensitive eyesight as
opposed to combustibility.)


When FK was created, I think they opted to use those
eliminates of the mythology that "fit" the show.  Nick
doesn't sleep in a coffin. He doesn't need his native
soil.  He can't shape-shift to become a bat
or a cloud of fog.  They picked out those elements
that they wanted to use and ignored the rest as
"superstition".


Tim



Kristen Fife, Author
http://writersweekend.com - Spend a Passionate Weekend With Your Muse
http://scarletmuse.com -An Erotic Writer's Conference


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:30:12 -0800
From:    Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......>
Subject: Re: Fan Creations VS. Actual Show

Hmmm. Interesting. Watching Season 3 I have been
interested more in the character of Urs and her
dynamic with Vashon. But when you look at the episode
where Nick brings Richard across, they definitely
intimate that there is some sort of a vulnerable
period, and there is the scene in "Curiouser and
Curiouser" where LaCroix tells Nick about shedding his
guilt or that it will fester over time.

--- Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......> wrote:
> One concept which occurs only in fanfic is the idea
> that young vampires are
> "fledglings" in need of special protection &
> training.

Kristen Fife, Author
http://writersweekend.com - Spend a Passionate Weekend With Your Muse
http://scarletmuse.com -An Erotic Writer's Conference


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:50:30 -0500
From:    Gaelin Wade <gaelinwade@a.......>
Subject: Re: Fan Creations VS. Actual Show

  I always figured this was more than just a continuity error , in that LaCroix
as "Master" could control when he was "sensed" by his "children" and when he
was not. Similiar to the way Divia could contol if she was sensed by LC.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Tim.Phillips@s.......

 > bonds with Lacroix or Janette etc?
 In the show, it is mentioned numerous times that members of a vampire "family"
can sense each other. Nick does know when LaCroix is around (unless it was
convenient for the plot for him not to notice that). Nick and Janette do speak of
an empathic connection.


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:24:35 -0800
From:    Libby Singleton <libratsie@s.......>
Subject: Re: Sunlight & Mr. Stoker

The great thing about vampire legends is that they vary so much from culture to
culture that there's ton of information to choose from if you don't want to
create your own "rules." Seems like I recall hearing that our modern Western
concept of vampires do take a lot from Nosferatu (I'm very sick so that may be
mispelled) and the novel Dracula.

  I rather like the "rules" applied to our FK vampires. I had to think why I
like them flying so well, and decided it probably comes from being a lifelong
superhero/comic book fan. I love to dream I'm flying and just love to think about
anyone else being able to fly.

  In a number of legends, vampires are vicious, inhumane, horrible creatures,
not handsome or able to pass in human society. Of course that definitely would
not have worked in the FK universe. I know people who dislike most modern
vampire books/stories because the vampires are too humanize, but I can't stand the
absolute gore and bloodshed of the vicious, not-human-at-all vampire stories.

  In my opinion, Screed was probably the most original of the FK vampires (of
course I'm very biased and will admit it). He wasn't suave, wasn't handsome in
most people's eyes, and was more Nosferatu in appearance than the other vampires
we see (<g> - even including Perry, the dog). He was animal like in some ways,
yet very human in others. Although he says at one point there's nothing tastier
than a wench, we learn in Fever he prefers and craves rats because that's what
he first tasted.

  Like any writer's creation, FK didn't have to stick to any specific rules
because the "traditional vampire rules" depends on exactly whose legends you are
talking about. Also, it just occured to me that because vampire legends used to
traditionally be oral legends passed down through oral story telling, the
"rules" would shift and mutate through the ages.

  --Libs (with a very high fever due to a sinus infection)

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 8 Nov 2006 to 9 Nov 2006 (#2006-47)
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