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FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Dec 2003 to 23 Dec 2003 (#2003-71)

December 23, 2003

There are 13 messages totalling 370 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. FK CD/DVDs
  2. FK Moment
  3. FORKNI-L Digest - 21 Dec 2003 to 22 Dec 2003 (#2003-70) (2)
  4. Natalie's Bed and Breakfast (2)
  5. FK Christmas Carol (4)
  6. Admin: Copyright was  Re: FK Christmas Carol
  7. Print Material, was FK Christmas Carol (2)

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Date:    Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:05:22 -0800
From:    Emily <emilymhanson@y......>
Subject: FK CD/DVDs

My FK CD survived the fire!!!  (OK, I haven't actually tried to play it
yet, but it appears intact).  It also sounds like my renter's insurance
will replace the DVD set.  The question remains whether they'll pay for
it at the current price, or just give me what I paid for it originally.
 But they will replace my DVDs.  So I have one more thing to be happy
about.  :)


=====
Emily M. Hanson
emilymhanson@y......
http://www.starbase-eprime.us

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:25:51 -0800
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: FK Moment

This evening as I was picking out some christmas tunes on my casio, I
happened upon "O Come Emannuel" in my christmas song book.
The author was listed as "unknown - 13th Century Plainsong"  The
lyrics it had weren't very christmasy - but instead told of the
crusades and trying to have Emannual (ie Christ) come back to the
holy land.
I tried to think of Nick maybe singing that song. <g>
I had always kind of liked that song, but had only heard it with
different (I guess more contemporary) lyrics.  I never knew it was
13th Century though.
-Amanda

=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://www.darksideoftheglass.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:04:10 -0800
From:    Emily <emilymhanson@y......>
Subject: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 21 Dec 2003 to 22 Dec 2003 (#2003-70)

Thank you for all the kind thoughts.  I am staying with my parents for
right now, still in the Twin Cities metro area in MN.  The townhome was
a complete writeoff.  They declared it a suicide today on my
housemate's part.  That is in the local news.

Among the CDs that I saved was my FK CD (I think it's the 1st one).
None of my DVDs made it.  I also salvaged some pictures and books.

I had renter's insurance, so they are going to replace most of my
stuff, thankfully.  I'm also okay as far as clothes, food, shelter,
etc. go for the time being.  As for videos, I'm going to wait a while
on them and see what happens with finding a new place.  Let's hope
seasons 2 & 3 are released on DVD!!! Thanks, again, everyone.



=====
Emily M. Hanson
emilymhanson@y......
http://www.starbase-eprime.us

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:10:21 -0800
From:    Liz the Lucky <luckyliz@c.......>
Subject: Natalie's Bed and Breakfast

I seem to lost my wav of Nat saying that. Would some kind soul mind
sending me a copy? Any other good 'Start Windows'-type wavs would be
appreciated, too. Thanks. :-)

--
Hugs and Kisses,
Liz the Lucky           luckyliz@c.......
http://www.mindspring.com/~luckyliz
Who is Will? And why is everyone firing at him?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 02:43:58 -0800
From:    "Cheryl P." <fknight12281992@y......>
Subject: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 21 Dec 2003 to 22 Dec 2003 (#2003-70)

If you need to replace any of his movies let me know.  Stay safe.

Emily <emilymhanson@y......> wrote:Thank you for all the kind thoughts. I am
staying with my parents for
right now, still in the Twin Cities metro area in MN. The townhome was
a complete writeoff. They declared it a suicide today on my
housemate's part. That is in the local news.

Among the CDs that I saved was my FK CD (I think it's the 1st one).
None of my DVDs made it. I also salvaged some pictures and books.

I had renter's insurance, so they are going to replace most of my
stuff, thankfully. I'm also okay as far as clothes, food, shelter,
etc. go for the time being. As for videos, I'm going to wait a while
on them and see what happens with finding a new place. Let's hope
seasons 2 & 3 are released on DVD!!! Thanks, again, everyone.




=====
Emily M. Hanson
emilymhanson@y......
http://www.starbase-eprime.us


He was brought across in 1228
I was brought across in1992
I will always be his Forever Knight
ForeverKnight.5u.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 01:22:07 -0800
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: FK Christmas Carol

According to the US Government, anything published before 1923 counts as public
domain.  http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm
I wanna see the story!

                     -Megan

Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......> wrote:
Please note that the rule against posting print crossovers to Fkfic-l applies to
Dickens and Christmas Carol. I'm sorry, because I'd love to do a repost if I
could find my copy, but otherwise Don and I will have to get into determining
whether a given dead author has been dead long enough to be in the public
domain.

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 24 Dec 2003 04:00:25 +1300
From:    Tracey Rayner <trayner@p.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie's Bed and Breakfast

I don't have Natalies B&B as a wav sound, but I do have a few other first
season sounds on my site that might interest you.  The addy is
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/trayner/FKsite2.html
hope it helps


I seem to lost my wav of Nat saying that. Would some kind soul mind sending
me a copy? Any other good 'Start Windows'-type wavs would be appreciated,
too. Thanks. :-)

_________________________
"I am what I am, and I don't think Betty Ford takes Forever Knight addicts"
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/trayner/FKsite2.html
trayner@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:47:00 +0000
From:    Amy Hull <amilynh@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK Christmas Carol

Megan said:
> According to the US Government, anything published before 1923 counts as
> public domain.  http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm

And while this is true in general, there are a few things that have had their
copyrights renewed:

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's family, for example, has been particularly vigilant
about both maintaining their copyright and enforcing it, so Holmes remains off
limits.

There was actually an act of Parliament to make J.M. Barrie's gift of all
royalties on Peter Pan to the Children's Hospital of London (I think that's the
one) active in perpetuity--so that one's permanently off-limits.

Disney has been almost psychotically vigilant in their attempts to find any way
possible to continue to renew their copyright and thus not allow Mickey Mouse's
image (among other things) to fall into public domain.

I know Dickens is public domain, as is Shakespeare, and Austen, and so many
others of the "Classics", both Brit. and American.

Amy

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:06:53 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Copyright was  Re: FK Christmas Carol

Megan said:
> According to the US Government, anything published before 1923 counts as
> public domain.  http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm

And Amy said:
>And while this is true in general, there are a few things that have had their
copyrights renewed:

Yes, and this is one of the two reasons why I have to insist on no print
crossovers on Fkfic-l, period.  The other reason is that the length of time an
item which is copyright by its author remains in copyright, is now related to
the length of time since the author's death.  There are some authors who
published before 1923 but who had long lives and continued to publish well after
that.  P.G. Wodehouse is a good example.  (Bertie Wooster meets LaCroix and has
to be rescued by Jeeves. <sigh> I wish that could be done on list. ) Since Don
and I don't have time to check on the status of every doubtful case, the rule
has to be no print crossovers.  Comicbook copyright holders tend to be pretty
strict about copyright, so we have to include them.

>There was actually an act of Parliament to make J.M. Barrie's gift of all
>royalties on Peter Pan to the Children's Hospital of London (I think that's the
>one) active in perpetuity--so that one's permanently off-limits.

Close. Great Ormond Street Hospital, which is exclusively for children.

>Disney has been almost psychotically vigilant in their attempts to find any way
>possible to continue to renew their copyright and thus not allow Mickey Mouse's
>image (among other things) to fall into public domain.

They once even prosecuted a grandmother for using a character in a sweater for a
grandchild.

>I know Dickens is public domain, as is Shakespeare, and Austen, and so many
>others of the "Classics", both Brit. and American.

Yep, but as I know Amy realizes, copyrights are created in film and television
versions of these works and that in turn can lead to trouble in fanfic.  Case in
point: When the copyright in Gone with the Wind began coming to an end on the
fiftieth anniversary of Margaret Mitchell's death, her estate commissioned an
official sequel, to which they own the rights. This allowed them to extend their
copyright on GWTW characters because they also appear in the new book.

McLisa, aka Lisa McDavid
list dragon, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l :)
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:11:04 EST
From:    Michele Canterbury <Mobody@a.......>
Subject: Re: FK Christmas Carol

In a message dated 12/23/03 11:48:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
amilynh@c....... writes:

> Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's family, for example, has been particularly
> vigilant about both maintaining their copyright and enforcing it, so Holmes
> remains off limits.
>

I was under the impression that SH was in the public Domain, as noted by the
many pastiches that are published every year.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:18:09 -0800
From:    FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y......>
Subject: Re: Print Material, was FK Christmas Carol

Just to set the record straight, what about all those
cases of movies based on books? Is it still a no
because of being based on print material even though
it's also a movie?

Mel

=====
The trouble with immortality is that it tends to go on forever-Herb Cain
NNPacker, Natpacker, Knight of the Cross, Knightie /Duncan flag waver, Tessa
flag waver
Highlander-FK-Buffyverse group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highlander-fk-Buffyverse

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:23:12 +0000
From:    Amy Hull <amilynh@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK Christmas Carol

I said:
> > Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's family, for example, has been particularly
> > vigilant about both maintaining their copyright and enforcing it, so Holmes
> > remains off limits.
Then Michelle replied:
> I was under the impression that SH was in the public Domain, as noted by the
> many pastiches that are published every year.

When you said this, I started to wonder, and a friend helped me do some
research.  All info from:  http://www.sherlockholmesonline.org/

"In the European Community, the entire work of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle enjoys
copyright protection until 31 December 2000. After that date, a number of
characters created by the author will enjoy trademark protection.

"In the US, the Sony Bono Copyright Extension Act of 1997 (105th Congress, 1st
Session H.R. 604 ) has extended the renewal term of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's
works among others for an additional 20 years. This means that all works
published after December 31, 1922 are protected for 95 years following the date
of publication.

"The characters created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle: Sherlock Holmes, Doctor
Watson, Mrs. Hudson, Professor Challenger, Brigadier Gerard and the Hound of the
Baskervilles among others are trademarked by the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary
Estate.

"Use of any character or any book not in the public domain for any purpose
whatsoever is prohibited without a license from the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Literary Estate."

So while there are certainly many Holmes stories out there--some sanctioned,
some not--if they don't have license they can be sued by the estate, as happened
to a zine publisher just in the last 10-15 years.

I think the biggest difference with literary stuff, and one of McLisa's primary
concerns, is that when we're doing fanfic from television or movies, the written
stuff we do is in a different medium than the original, thus not directly
competing with it; most folks wouldn't choose to read fanfic *to the exclusion*
of more episodes/movies.  Literary-based fandoms (like Harry Potter) are
competing in the same medium: print vs. print, and so it's (perceived as) a more
direct threat.  And, at the end of the day, ALL fanfic is copyright
infringement, and if they are of such a mind and find it, the copyright owners
can have their lawyers send writers/web site maintainers/listowners a C&D
letter, which we'd be legally obligated to heed.

So I think it makes sense not to tempt fate any more than necessary and think
McLisa's wise to say no literary source material.

I actually hadn't realized what McLisa was mentioning about film version
extending copyright and muddying the waters even more--the Mitchell family's
little trick was, I thought, a clever use of that loophole.

I wonder if a loophole here might be to mention in a .sig that you have a story
and list the URL rather than posting it here and endangering the list(s).

Just imho,
Amy

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:13:14 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Print Material, was FK Christmas Carol

In a message dated 12/23/03 1:19:06 PM Central Standard Time,
sgt_buck_frobisher@y...... writes:


> Just to set the record straight, what about all those
> cases of movies based on books?

That's a moot point because as stated in the rules McLisa posts once a week,
FKFIC allows crossover stories based ONLY on other television shows, not
movies or print:

>
> 3. FK may be crossed only with other television shows. It can not be crossed
> with other shows which are based on print-published  media including comics.

--Libs

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Dec 2003 to 23 Dec 2003 (#2003-71)
**************************************************************



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