FORKNI-L
FORKNI-L Digest - 9 Apr 2003 to 10 Apr 2003 (#2003-106)
Thu, 10 Apr 2003
There are 23 messages totalling 577 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Growls (2)
2. Fate Worse than Death Question (7)
3. Medieval French question (2)
4. BASS (2)
5. Nicks Hair, Re: Favorite things (2)
6. Francesca question (2)
7. from Father's Day on forward (was Fate Worse than Death Question) (2)
8. help? (2)
9. Asking permission (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:06:05 EDT
From: Sierra Mayberry <BlueFaeryMagick@a.......>
Subject: Re: Growls
In Dying to Know You, they overdid the growl--that was obviously a lion. I
don't really remember another ep sounding as bad as that one, but the other
seasons, they seemed more 'natural.' *shrugs*
=====
~Sierra (Dark Knightie, UF, FKPagan)
Signing a petition to help wildlife conservation doesn't take long and it
makes a big difference http://www.savebiogems.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:07:10 -0700
From: Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question
I was thinking about it, and it strikes me as telling that, even though LaCroix
didn't seem *really* mad, and (as far as we know) only hit him that once, Nick
seemed *awfully* anxious to get out of town afterwards. Somehow I don't think
it was just about being free to search for his 'cure'. A pattern of escalating
violence, perhaps? And Nick decided to get out before it got bad?
-Megan
Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......> wrote:Anyhoo, in the first
flashback where LC slaps Nick and holds him
against the walll, Nick kind of took it in stride. Like 'ok, I'm in
trouble, let him get it over with so I can leave'. He did talk back,
but he just let LC get his anger out.
"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:55:55 -0400
From: Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: Medieval French question
>From: Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
>I am wondering would anyone know if the medieval french translation
>of "knightwatch" would be different that the modern.
>The modern (had to do it as two separate words) came up to be
> 'montre de chevalier'
I don' t know anything about medieval French and it has been many years
since I have taken French but i would question your use of the the word
montre in this instance. As i recall montre more often than not means
watch as in wristwatch. according to my French dictionary you have the
feminine nouns veille as in vigil, sleeplessness, watchfulnes;.
attention as in attention; garde as in keeping, safe keeping , care,
defence, protection, and vigilance as in vigilance to chose from
In short what it boils down to is what does the word Knightwatch mean.
debbie clarke
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:10:41 -0500
From: DPHEIL <dpheil@A.......>
Subject: BASS
For anyone that wants to see it
BEN BASS will be on Twilight zone
tonight on UPN at 8:00
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:27:00 -0700
From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question
Which ep had the metal balcony scene in it? I have a
vague memory of LC throwing Nick down onto the balcony
but can't place the ep.
Mel
=====
FK:NickNatPacker, Knight of the Cross /Highlander: Duncan Flag-Waver/Due South
fan/Tracker Fan/Angel Fan/Port Charles Fan
Spotted on bumper sticker: Bad Cop! No Donut
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:36:39 -0500
From: eowyn3@j.......
Subject: Re: Nicks Hair, Re: Favorite things
Hi Y'all!
One of my favorite things I haven't seen mentioned (or maybe I missed
it...it's possible<shrug>) is the nightie in...Near Death wasn't it?
Terri
eowyn3@j......., eowyn@w.......
GWDFC, G-IV & V Attendee, Knighties Listowner, TKD, FK X-Stitcher,
Proud Survivor of Fk-fic Wars 8-11, Keeper of the FK Birthday List
She can be taught! But only in little bytes!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:13:50 -0400
From: Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question
>From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y......>
>
>True, though, he didn't look anywhere close to as
>scared as he did in TG. His look in that scene was
>like "Oh boy, I am *so* going to get it now" or
>"Please don't mangle me too badly".
Nick was right to be afraid In TG he had stolen LaCroix's meal out from
under him. I thought LC was surprisingly forgiving for LaCroix . Other
than ramming Nick into the wall he didn't really retaliate. It seems to
me the more frustrated Lacroix got by Nick's refusal to come to heel the
more violent he got. Ultimately I expect the real damage was more
phychological than physical . Nick saw himself as an adult .
How humiliating for him to to be constantly reduced to position of a
child and beaten by his father.
On the other hand from Lacroix perspective and do not think by this i
am by any means justifying LaCroix's treatment of Nick . it is
possible that LaCroix being the top dog in the pack looked at
disaplining Nick something akin to training an insolent puppy. the first
wack was to get Nick's attention, the next was to make sure he didn't
try to bite back.
Speaking of the power of the alpha wolf which we weren't years ago we
used to run our dog behind the Metro Toronto Zoo. For a brief period of
time the wolf pen was visible from where we ran our dog One day while we
were going by we heard a fight going on amongst the wolves in the
pen. Lots of barking and snarling. Suddenly rising up over the din
came a single bark from the alpha wolf. He had obviously our the macho
lab. who up to then had been thinking of running down to investigate the
noise suddenly changed his mind on the grounds I guess discretion was
the better part of valour. He sat down obediently as well. I
see LaCroix as having much the same impact on the vampire community.
debbie clarke
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:50:01 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: Growls
> In Dying to Know You, they overdid the growl--that was obviously a lion
They always sounded like lions or something to me. Great idea, but the
sound effect needed a little more massaging. But I *love* hearing the
nighthawks in several of the episodes, and so I will forgive much.
Your very humble & most obedient servant,
Ligeia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:06:15 -0700
From: Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: Re: Nicks Hair, Re: Favorite things
--- eowyn3@j....... wrote:
> is the nightie in...Near Death
Oh yes! Totally forgot about that. I have a screen capture of that
at just the right moment, with just the right light.....
ok enough.<vbg>
-Amanda
=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://operacellar.tripod.com/phantomslair.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:47:48 -0700
From: Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question
>Nick saw himself as an adult. How humiliating for him to to be constantly
>reduced to position of a child and beaten by his father.
>On the other hand from Lacroix it is possible that LaCroix being the top dog in
>the pack looked at disaplining Nick something akin to training an insolent
puppy
I think that's pretty much it, on both sides of the coin. Consider the cultures
they came from: In mideval Europe, a nobleman owed fealty to his lord and to the
church, but still had a good amount of autonamy; he could go where he pleased
and choose his own profession, etc. His lord and the church had a lot better
things to do than worry about one wayward subject. Yeah, they had to bow and
scrape and play political games, but we all do that.
The classical Roman 'paterfamilias' (head of the family) held a much more
intimate control over the members of their families, and family was EVERYTHING
to the Romans. You couldn't do SQUAT without the support of you father, and the
head of the family held the power of life and death over his children,
grandchildren, etc, *up until the very day he died*.
From Nick's point of view, LaCroix was being arbitrary, authoritarian, and
cruel, and he was just trying to gain a little independence.
From LaCroix's point of view, he was excercising his rights and responsibilities
as head of his family, and Nick was being ungrateful, willfull, and rebellious.
"Every life is lived from a first-person point of view."
-Megan
"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:43:22 -0700
From: Cheryl <doughboy2C.......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question
Father Figure or the Black Budda 1. Lacroix tries to keep him from it and
that's why they fight.
Cheryl Pillsbury
Doughboy2c.......
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:44:49 -0700
From: Cheryl <doughboy2C.......>
Subject: Re: BASS
Cool. Thanks. Stay safe.
Cheryl Pillsbury
Doughboy2c.......
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:16:47 +0200
From: Doris=20Weiss?= <dorisweiss_2000@y......>
Subject: Francesca question
Hi everyone,
I recently re-watched my fav. ep "Francesca" and
started wondering:
Nicholas kills Francesca.
Francesca is introduced as his sister, that means
she's LC's child (another example that LC seems to be
rather 'nice' to his daughters as compared to his son
btw). I wonder why LC is not mad (to say the least)at
Nick for killing his daughter. I mean, I would be.
Are there any fics where this has been treated or has
this been discussed before?
Luc
=====
"Even eternal life is too short to wait for a table." - Uncle -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:22:42 -0700
From: Carla Martinek <copper@M.......>
Subject: Re: Medieval French question
Ok, with Debbie's suggestions, I would say it's
"La veille de chevalier" (knight's vigil)
--Carla
copper@m.......
--- Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......> wrote:
> veille as in vigil, sleeplessness, watchfulnes;
> attention as in attention;
> garde as in keeping, safe keeping, care, defense,
> and protection, and
> vigilance as in vigilance
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:55:06 -0700
From: Laurie of the Isles <laudon1228@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question
--- Doris Weiss <dorisweiss_2000@y......> wrote:
> Check Father's Day again. If I'm not mistaken LC
> actually slaps Nick pretty hard before pinning him
> to the wall.
And as has been pointed out by others before on this
list, LaCroix, to his own mind, was not being abusive.
When he was mortal a father had life and death
authority over his children, could punish them up to
and including death if he thought the transgression
warranted, fully within the bounds of Roman law. I
imagine Nick's rejection of his father's authority
would have been a serious transgression in LC's time.
So to LC's mind it was like Bill Cosby's old routine
of his father telling Bill and his brother Russell "I
brought you into the world, I can take you out, and
make another one that looks just like you."
The standards of Nick's mortal years cannot have been
much different. Even by the standards of the 1920s
when it looks like this flashback occurred, a
backhanded slap and a little manhandling by a parent
to a child would probably have gone unremarked by passers-by.
=====
Laurie of the Isles
Laudon1228@y......
UF, FKPagan, NigelBennett, FKSpiked, Rainbow-Knights, FKFansHug
AIM: Laudon1965, ICQ: 173739497, MSNIM: Laudon1965, Yahoo: Laudon1228
"Isn't it about time you came out?" -- LaCroix to Nick, DK2
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:06:36 -0700
From: Laurie of the Isles <laudon1228@y......>
Subject: Re: from Father's Day on forward (was Fate Worse than Death Question)
I had another thought after I posted. Nick was not
simply rejecting the authority of a father figure. By
the conventions of LC's time and Nick's as well, LC
was a kind of liege lord to Nick, especially after
Nick's kissing LC's ring. So in rejecting LC's
authority, Nick was in effect breaking an oath of
fealty, an extremely serious and dishonorable offense
by the codes he was raised with.
=====
Laurie of the Isles
Laudon1228@y......
UF, FKPagan, NigelBennett, FKSpiked, Rainbow-Knights, FKFansHug
AIM: Laudon1965, ICQ: 173739497, MSNIM: Laudon1965, Yahoo: Laudon1228
"Isn't it about time you came out?" -- LaCroix to Nick, DK2
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:36:05 +0000
From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@A.......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question
Laurie of the Isles wrote:
> imagine Nick's rejection of his father's authority
> would have been a serious transgression in LC's time.
It would have been very serious. And patricide was considered the worst crime
of all. The punishment for killing your father was to be put in a sack with a
wild animal, and thrown in the Tiber to be eaten alive/savaged/drowned.
Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:43:42 +0000
From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@A.......>
Subject: Re: from Father's Day on forward (was Fate Worse than Death Question)
Laurie of the Isles wrote:
> the conventions of LC's time and Nick's as well, LC
> was a kind of liege lord to Nick, especially after
> Nick's kissing LC's ring. So in rejecting LC's
> authority, Nick was in effect breaking an oath of fealty,
Absolutely! And yet I found the way that Nick swore his fealty very telling. LC
seemed happy with NIck's apparent submission to his authority, but the look on
Nick's face and the intonation of his "I will repay you," meant to me that that
repayment would not necessarily be in the coin of devotion and obedience.
And as we see, Nick repaid LC by rebellion and eventual attempted patricide. It
makes you wonder what kept them persisting in this doomed relationship <eUFg>
Nancy Kaminski
--
nancykam@a.......
www.nancykam.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:19:21 -0700
From: Viv <viv11374@y......>
Subject: help?
I've just spent the last five minutes trying to get to Jarvinia's
Lair and being told that it 'cannot be found'. Can anyone see if
they can connect? Is she still at gryffonslair.com, or did she
move and that's why my bookmark doesn't work?
=====
Viv
Don't annoy the crazy person
Life's a witch and then you fly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:24:47 EDT
From: Michele Canterbury <Mobody@a.......>
Subject: Re: help?
In a message dated 4/10/03 12:20:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
viv11374@y...... writes:
> I've just spent the last five minutes trying to get to Jarvinia's
> Lair and being told that it 'cannot be found'. Can anyone see if
> they can connect?
MY BOOKMARK won't connect either.
Michele
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:43:52 +0200
From: Doris Weiss <dorisweiss_2000@y......>
Subject: Asking permission
Hi,
I'm currently working on a fanfic that is set after LK
and I'd like to ask the V4S people if it's OK to
borrow Adam, Thomas and Kelly for a little spin?
Luc
=====
"Even eternal life is too short to wait for a table." - Uncle -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:00:33 -0400
From: Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Asking permission
In a message dated 4/10/2003 11:43:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dorisweiss_2000@y...... writes:
> I'm currently working on a fanfic that is set after LK
> and I'd like to ask the V4S people if it's OK to
> borrow Adam, Thomas and Kelly for a little spin?
FOr everyone's information, the V4S seasons and characters are considered "fair
game" for fan fic. You don't need to get permission to use characters. In fact,
I created Reese's daughter and would be thrilled to see her pop up in fan fic
(I've written a couple of stories with her myself)
Libs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:24:35 -0700
From: litbeing <litbeing@y......>
Subject: Re: Francesca question
Greetings,
When LC referred to Francesca as Nick's "sister" perhaps he was using the term
in a "we-are-all-family" because we are vampries way.
Also someone was interested in plants. Has anyone seen the Dracula Orchid --
its flower resembles a bat in flight.
Fangs all around,
barbara
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 9 Apr 2003 to 10 Apr 2003 (#2003-106)
**************************************************************
Parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/