Home Page How I Found Forever Knight Forkni-L Archives Main Page Forkni-L Earlier Years
My Forever Knight Fanfiction Links E-Mail Me

FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Mar 2003 (#2003-75)

Thu, 13 Mar 2003

There are 16 messages totalling 560 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Human Factor stuff (2)
  2. How Would You Have Ended It? (4)
  3. FK moment and question (4)
  4. vampire physiology (5)
  5. NIGEL  Alert for TONIGHT

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:29:28 -0800
From:    FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y.......>
Subject: Human Factor stuff

     I think I misinterpreted what was said at the end
of HF....now that I've seen the end again, it *does*
sound like Nick brought her back over.

     She's not really the same in this ep, but it did
clear up a few fic things for me...like how to do my
LK fixit without the lightning strike...and my
Nat-vamp one.


     Doesn't anyone think there's a fic in there
somewhere....Janette coming back and not being happy
with Nick for bringing her back when she wanted to
die?

     Just one question: Wouldn't Nick and LC have felt
the connection break when she became mortal?

Mel

=====
NNPacker, KoC
What time is it? What day is it? What century is it?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:36:14 -0800
From:    Paffoman <paffoman@c.......>
Subject: Re: How Would You Have Ended It?

I have come to believe, that nothing is impossible.  It's usually right
infront of you, just let down your fear and seek it.  Always keep it true to
your heart and soul.  Nick was more human then anyone I know and I wish we
had more of him around.  safe.

Cheryl Pillsbury
Paffoman@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:37:36 -0500
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: How Would You Have Ended It?

In a message dated 3/13/2003 11:22:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sgt_buck_frobisher@y....... writes:

>
> Actually, LaCroix was supposed to use that Romeo and
> Juliet quote in the end...why was it cut? Any ideas?

Because TPTB rules it could NOT be obvious that the main characters had died at
the end (and I think Ger was directing and also did not want it to be obvious).
It is harder to syndicate a show if everyone knows the main characters are all
dead at the end of the series.

So the ending IS vague. Natalie could still be alive (or brought across) and we
do NOT see the staff hit Nick.

I actually like the beauty of Last Knight, although I think some of the
characters were out of character (or the build up to the break down was not done
enough in pervious episodes). It helped I was at a convention the weekend it
aired, and the local station was broadcasting mental health hospital
advertisements:

Does you child sulk? Does he seem depressed? Does he have a drinking problem?

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:13:47 -0800
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y.......>
Subject: Re: How Would You Have Ended It?

Not really.  My brother agrees whole heartedly with you.  When I called him to
complain after seeing LK the first time, he laughed and said, "At least they
gave it an ENDING.  Unlike Quantum Leap."  He calls it a 'Classic Shakspearian
Tragedy, all about faith and love and friendship, and finding the courage to let
go.'  I suppose he's right.  *I* still find it inordinatly depressing.  *pout*
                          -Megan
 Julia Kocich <JKocich@a.......> wrote:I'm pretty sure I'm alone in thinking that
the way the series ended was
appropriate to both the premise of the series (hero questing for noble but
impossible goal) and the realities of the corporate shenanigans with FK.

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:20:29 -0800
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y.......>
Subject: Re: FK moment and question

That would certainly explain how he'd get the tassets wrong-- he didn't actually
know anything about the armor.  ("How do you get this *@#^*@ thing on?!?!")
On the other hand, he may have actually taken that class at... whatever
university he claimed to have gone to.  Just for laughs, to see how people
veiwed his time.
                        -Megan
 Libratsie@a....... wrote:Another reason he might have at least tried on armour -
curiousity, just the
way I and others can't resist trying on historical costumes backstage in a
theater even though we won't be using those items in the play.

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:25:46 -0800
From:    Viv <viv11374@y.......>
Subject: Re: FK moment and question

--- Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@a.......> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm pretty sure that in the era of full-body armor, battles
> were fought at a pre-arranged field of combat (think Henry V and
> Agincourt) at a reasonable time of day. Battles weren't fought
> at night, not then. Neither Nick or Lacroix would need armor to
> blend into
<<<SNIP>>>
>
> > Another reason he might have at least tried on armour -
> > curiousity, just the way I and others can't resist trying on historical costumes
> > backstage in a theater even though we won't be using those items in the play.
>
> I'd buy that reason. I can see Nick clanking around in his room in a
> borrowed suit of armor, just to see what it was like.
>
> Nancy Kaminski
> nancykam@attbi.

Here's what my imagination provided. Nick *persuading* some
Renaissance prince to hold his tourney in the evening, thus
allowing Nick to compete. I think tournament armor might have
been even more complex than fighting armor in some ways. What I
still don't get is that I was under the impression that vampires
didn't *need* to relieve themselves.

=====
Viv

Don't annoy the crazy person

Life's a witch and then you fly

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:40:47 -0800
From:    Viv <viv11374@y.......>
Subject: Re: vampire physiology

Cheryl, corpses have mass. If they didn't, they'd float away
before we could put them in their coffins. I myself have never
actually picked up a corpse, but if you like, I bet my Rabbi can
put me in touch with members of our community's Chevra Kadisha
(Jewish Burial Society) so that they can confirm that dead bodies
do indeed weigh something.
--- Paffoman <paffoman@c.......> wrote:
> A vampire has no body mass, but if he did, he would weigh a
> little heavier
> because he/she is dead and they would have bodyweight.  But
> where they fly,
> drift on air by their feet.  Not much weight or sound.
>
> Cheryl Pillsbury
> Paffoman@c.......


=====
Viv

Don't annoy the crazy person

Life's a witch and then you fly

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:57:41 -0800
From:    Viv <viv11374@y.......>
Subject: Re: Human Factor stuff

>      Just one question: Wouldn't Nick and LC have felt
> the connection break when she became mortal?
>

Well, maybe they just really weren't paying attention...although
if I were Janette, I would be mad just realizing *that*, even
without the he-brought-me-back-across-after-I-told-him-not-to.

=====
Viv

Don't annoy the crazy person

Life's a witch and then you fly

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:27:51 -0800
From:    Viv <viv11374@y.......>
Subject: Re: How Would You Have Ended It?

--- Libratsie@a....... wrote:
<<<SNIP>>>
> (or the build up
> to the break down was not done enough in pervious episodes). It
> helped I was at a convention the weekend it aired, and the
> local station was broadcasting mental health hospital
> advertisements:
>
> Does you child sulk? Does he seem depressed? Does he have a
> drinking problem?
>
> Libs

Now, how do we forward that to LaCroix? Although, in his eyes,
Nick has a 'drinking problem' only in that he chooses to drink cow.

=====
Viv

Don't annoy the crazy person

Life's a witch and then you fly


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:33:25 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Re: FK moment and question

Yes, the suit of armor in the episode is way too late for Nick's mortal life,
being apparently 16th c.  However, it was parade armor, which means it wasn't
meant for serious fighting. Imagine all the knights on either side who
accompanied Henry the VIIIth of England and the King of France to their
diplomatic meeting at the Field of the Cloth of Gold in the first part of the
century. I think it's possible that Nick might have worn such armor as part of
someone's entourage.

As to whether FK vampires need to eliminate, I don't know, but he does have a
fully-equipped bathroom. :) Remember when little Lisa Cooper accidentally
blinded him in Father Figure?

Nick might have simply seen and laughed at a mortal who was trapped in a suit of
armor.

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:35:46 -0800
From:    "D. K. Kraft" <cat@e.......>
Subject: Re: vampire physiology

Paffoman wrote:
>
> A vampire has no body mass, but if he did, he would weigh a little heavier
> because he/she is dead and they would have bodyweight.  But where they fly,
> drift on air by their feet.  Not much weight or sound.
>
> Cheryl Pillsbury

        Cheryl, *all* material items, even gases, have mass--at least according
to both basic physics and even quantum physics.  Some items have less mass than
others, depending on their atomic density (number of protons, neutrons, and
electrons).  Remember:  "weight" is the interaction of gravity on the mass of
an object; weight changes with gravity, mass does not.  An astronaut has the
same mass on the Earth and in space--it's his/her weight that changes with the
lessening of gravity.

        Since they most certainly are subject to the laws of physics--e.g. FK
vampires can't move faster than the speed of light and are subject to
friction--this precludes them from any sort of existence outside said laws.


DPHEIL wrote:
>> How could bullets  pass  through them the way they  do if vampire bones
>> were more dense than human bones?
>
> I asked a similer question a while ago
> All the time we've seen nick get shot
> does his super vampire healing push out the bullet as it closed the wound?

        As a normal human body will wall off and gradually excrete foreign
objects--like sand granules, dirt, or a thorn (or the pointy end of a
toothpick--had one in my big toe for a number of weeks until it popped out,
not fun)--I would say it's logical that a vampire's body would respond in much
the same fashion with an embedded bullet.  That is, the body would wall it off
in an isolated pocket, much like a cyst, and gradually shift it up through the
tissue to the epidermis to get rid of it.

        In the instances where Nat was digging bullets out of various vamps, I
suspect they just didn't want to wait for their bodies to complete the
process.  Maybe it's a bit uncomfortable, or itches.

        Bullets will pass through a normal human body regularly, depending on
the size and force behind them.  It's much more likely for a small caliber
bullet to lodge in the body--whether against bone or tissue, could be either--
as compared to a large caliber bullet with a lot more force behind it.  I
believe most bodies shot with semi-automatic (think uzi) weapons don't retain
the bullets--there's so much power behind those projectiles, they punch right
through human flesh and bone. (Ick.  Nasty.)


Kyer wrote:
>
> I don't remember even seeing the original post.  :-(
> Okay... if the bones are denser why must they be heavier?  There are metals
> that are light weight yet stronger than iron.

        Density, or having a greater atomic mass, usually means that said object
will express a greater *weight* when under the influence of gravity.  Think of
lead as compared to aluminum:  lead is denser and thus weighs more.  Tensile
strength, or the ability to resist deformation, is an entirely different
measurement.  There are many alloys that are of low density, yet have a
fantastic tensile strength, resisting punctures, tears, shearing, etc.  A
number of polymers come to mind (plastics) that also meet this criteria.

        However, as I've stated before, I don't believe there occurs any change
in the overall structure of an FK vampire's body.  Once again, the keys are a)
regeneration, and b) altered brain chemistry with respect to pain receptors.

        Apologies for the long post.  It's that science...thing...


Keeping the Fur Flying --
--
     /\ /\                      |
     ^o o^     D.K. "Cat" Kraft | "There are two means of refuge from
     ->T<-     cat@e.......   |  the miseries of life:  music and cats."
       ~       Lynnwood, WA     |
___oOO___OOo___                 |                    -- Albert Schweitzer

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:42:27 -0800
From:    Paffoman <paffoman@c.......>
Subject: Re: vampire physiology

They do have weight but not human weight.  There body mass isn't as solid as
ours.  It is tricky.  stay safe

Cheryl Pillsbury
Paffoman@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:40:36 +0000
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@a.......>
Subject: Re: FK moment and question

Viv wrote:

> Here's what my imagination provided. Nick *persuading* some
> Renaissance prince to hold his tourney in the evening, thus
> allowing Nick to compete.

My practical gene kicks in again...and how are people going to be able to see?
While the vampires would have no difficulty at all, running a jousting tourney
by torchlight would not be very conducive to enjoyable spectating. Unless it
was under a full moon I don't think the prince would be particularly popular
with spectators or participants ("How am I supposed to hit the other guy's
shielf with my lance if I can't see five feet in front of my horse???")

I think tournament armor might have
> been even more complex than fighting armor in some ways. What I
> still don't get is that I was under the impression that vampires
> didn't *need* to relieve themselves.

It might be more ornate, but I don't think more complex. Tournament armor would
need to protect the wearer against specific hazards---particularly a blow from
an opposing knight's lance. Battlefield armor would need to protect the wearer
from many other hazards met in close-order combat (the knight would be fighting
both othe knights on horseback as well as infantrymen on the ground).

It's interesting to note that early tournaments were called "melees"---and were
basically two large groups of knights meeting on a field and fighting,
ostensibly for practice. It was a free-for-all with no rules, and many men were
injured and killed. Ambushes, uneven matchups, and killing the horses were all
okay. Since this was rather expensive in terms of losing valuable men and
animals, they gradually instituted rules and ended up with the jousting
tournament we think of today. Men could still get killed or severely injured,
but at least it was a fair fight with stringent rules.

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:01:05 -0800
From:    "D. K. Kraft" <cat@e.......>
Subject: Re: vampire physiology

Paffoman wrote:
>
> They do have weight but not human weight.  There body mass isn't as solid as
> ours.  It is tricky.  stay safe
>
> Cheryl Pillsbury
> Paffoman@c.......

        Sorry, Cheryl, but I don't ascribe to this theory.  I feel that the FK
universe is subject to the same laws of physics as the "real world" (see my
previous post in this thread).  And given that vampirism in the FK universe
has a very (to me) plausible cause--the retrovirus found in Nick's blood--it
simply doesn't follow that their bodies would have such a fantasy structure.

        FK vampires have bodies the same in atomic structure as humans, but
altered at the genetic level.  Weight is a function of gravity, mass is not; FK
vampires retain the same mass and associative weight.  Their ability to fly
is, IMO, a psionic ability to affect the force of gravity--think Magneto of
the X-Men universe, same concept.  Same basis for the whammy.  There is an
area in the human brain termed "the god area," that, were it active, it's
theorized that humans could tap such psionic abilities.  The mind is an
incredible force and has yet to be fully understood or analyzed.  I mean,
there are yogis with the ability to *be* clinically dead, then come out of
that state, by force of their minds alone.  That the retrovirus causes such
alteration of an FK vampire's "hardwiring" is entirely plausible.

        Apologies, but I just can't stand scientific inaccuracies.  And FK, for
all its vampire myth, has its basis in science rather than fantasy.  In fact,
that's the core symbolism behind Nat's push to find a cure for Nick.  Sort of
like Scully's belief in science as a foil to Mulder's belief in less
explainable phenomenon.


Keeping the Fur Flying ==
--
     /\ /\                      |
     ^o o^     D.K. "Cat" Kraft | "There are two means of refuge from
     ->T<-     cat@e.......   |  the miseries of life:  music and cats."
       ~       Lynnwood, WA     |
___oOO___OOo___                 |                    -- Albert Schweitzer

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:10:30 -0800
From:    Cheryl Hoffman <dayabaygal@y.......>
Subject: NIGEL  Alert for TONIGHT

If you want to catch Nigel's episode of

The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne:
   Black Glove of Melchizedek

you need to set your VCR's, as it
will be on SCI-FI channel tonight / early Friday morning
-- at 5am Eastern time.... --

The guides were a bit confusing... making it look like it
was on this morning, but I just checked, and, unless
the onscreen guide is also messed up... it is scheduled
for early Friday morning....


Cheryl Hoffman, NA (& I ain't changin' it), Cousin, Val,
NBN, G4, Bridging, Indecency,
"My, my.. we are in a mood tonight.." -LaCroix
dayabaygal@y.......       Richland, WA
AIM/Yahoo:  DayaBayGal          ICQ:  30464256

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:34:08 -0800
From:    Patty Costantino <pas_20197@y.......>
Subject: Re: vampire physiology

 "D. K. Kraft" <cat@e.......> wrote:


>>>>>In the instances where Nat was digging bullets out of various vamps, I
suspect they just didn't want to wait for their bodies to complete the
process. Maybe it's a bit uncomfortable, or itches.


In the eps Fate Worse Than Death and Father Figure, perhaps Natalie was
removing bullets from Janette and Nick, respectively, more for ballistic
evidence than possible discomfort.

 From what I can remember, FK canon never suggested that vampires were
uncomfortable with bullets lodged in their bodies.  In Hunted, Natalie removed
the garlic bullets from Nick because the garlic affected him, not necessarily
the bullet.   In Father Figure, he seemed to show pain when the bullet entered,
then nothing until Natalie dug around for the bullet and hit a nerve ending, but
at that particular stage and timeframe in the show, IMO, he was becoming more
physically human and would have subsequently been more susceptible to human
pain.  Though anything I've said here shouldn't be taken seriously and is
strictly my opinion as I'm *not* a scientist.  <g>



Patty,  N&N packer, Knightie

http://www.geocities.com/pas_20197/homepage08.html

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Mar 2003 (#2003-75)
***********************************************



Previous digest Back to March's list Next digest






Parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/