FORKNI-L
FORKNI-L Digest - 28 Oct 2001 - Special issue (#2001-327)
Sun, 28 Oct 2001
There are 28 messages totalling 1004 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Cork Duty? (2)
2. Religious symbols other than crosses (5)
3. Religious symbols other than crosses & Origin (Canon) of FK Vampires?
4. Veering sharply back sorta-on topic (2)
5. FK hair experiments (was Re: Veering sharply back sorta-on topic) (2)
6. religious symbols (7)
7. Jen, Queen of Inquiries, Inquires
8. Birth Announcement!!!!! Welcome Andy!!!!! :-) :-) (2)
9. Ger! (in TRACKER)
10. UT fic?
11. how to get yourself noticed on forkni-l
12. Black Buddha
13. FK hair experiments (was Re: Veering sharply back sorta-on
topic) (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:17:15 -0700
From: Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Cork Duty?
> Kyer, are you still assigning this duty? I thought I found all of the ones
> hiding in the Loft, and Det. Knight promised me he was gonna aim for the
> trashcan from now on!> > Portia
Are we talking the same loveable, lusciously-locked lug who promised to cut
down on his blood drinking?
'Nough said.
:)=
Kyer, kyer@p.......
And nice to see your name back in Forkni print, Portia! **Kyer grabs cork
grabbing tool** Here.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:23:14 -0800
From: Janice Cox <jancox@m.......>
Subject: Re: Religious symbols other than crosses
That was 'Fright Night.' "You have to have *faith*, Mister Vincent." The
vamp's name was Jerry Dandridge. No, I'm not obsessed with vampires at all.
;-)
That sounds the most reasonable to me, FK-wise. I have always hated the idea
that a person of no faith could hold up a religious symbol and turn a
vampire. Tho as guilt-ridden as Nick is <eg>, it might work if held up by an
atheist.
Janice
-----Original Message-----
From: Forever Knight TV show [mailto:FORKNI-L@l.......]On Behalf Of
Emily
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 1:56 PM
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Subject: Re: Religious symbols other than crosses
Which is possible, since cross jewelry is sold in major department
stores. General vampire mythology has it that faith is what actually
makes the crosses or other religious icons dangerous to vamps. In
fact, there was a cheesy vampire movie made awhile back which stated
this...was it Dracula? I can't recall at the moment.
My personal theory is that it's a little of both...the power of
suggestion to the vampire, who believes that the cross can hurt him,
and the actual belief of the wearer/holder.
Emily
--- Janice Cox <jancox@m.......> wrote:
> So now I'm thinking (everyone step away carefully)... That might
> mean that a holy symbol such as a cross might not actually affect >
a vampire physically if bought and used by a non-believer.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:24:27 EST
From: Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......>
Subject: Re: Religious symbols other than crosses & Origin (Canon) of FK
Vampires?
In a message dated 10/28/01 1:56:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
emilymhanson@y....... writes:
> In fact, there was a cheesy vampire movie made awhile back which stated
> this...was it Dracula? I can't recall at the moment.
Do you mean "Dracula 2000?" Ugggggggggghhhhhhhhh, IM*NSH*O <LOL>, I will
accept almost *any* premise on the origin of Vampires, but Judas Iscariot's
**rope broke!?!?!?** Puh-leaze........and I am objecting on religious grounds
either <g>. Oh, and if you liked the movie, Emily, my apologies..........it
is the first Vampire movie I have seen and taped that I actually *erased*
lol, but everyone is entitled to thier own likes and dislikes, of course :>)=
This made me think of another question..........in Forever Knight canon (TV,
not fan-fic) is there any allusion to the origin of Vampires? We get an
__inkling__ in the Anne Rice/Lestat world, as well as some in that of Chelsea
Quinn Yarbro's The Vampire Count St. Germaine (sp? oh well <g>) and in FK
there is the Sun Goddess who brought across Vachon and _______________ (Brain
Freeze *g*), she seemed pretty danged ancient, then there was, of course the
Ancient who brought across Divia......who knows how old that Vamp was (or did
they say and I am forgetting?), and LaCroix having been brought across in
Pompeii (??), indeed also a long time ago. Well, gee, how was that for a
run-on sentence? :>D
Anyhooooo, I have recently watched all of FK (forwards this time, not
backwards like last time) and I don't remember a thing about the origin of
Vampires.
Anybody know? Or did they just not say?
Forever Yours,
Billie-Lee (who is about to watch Ger [and AP <vbweg>] in Tracker <woohoo> on
her little office TV here)
mccelt2000@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:31:34 -0800
From: Eric McCann <egmccann@t.......>
Subject: Veering sharply back sorta-on topic
Well, she tried to take it offlist, and forgot to change the addy - and
apologized.
In any case, about the only thing FK related here is Janette in robin egg
blue...
So who in our favourite vamps WOULD do the muti-color-hair thing?
On the ladies' side:
Urs - doubtful. On the other hand... hmm.
Tracy - actually, I think so... and trying to cover it up at work (not
cop-like...)
Janette - Hmm. Might depend on occasion and color. Doing it for shock
value? No (not that it seems to have all that much these days....)
Natalie - Uh-huh. Sure...
Cohen - Yeah, right... mostly because of the job, I think, though.
The guys:
Vachon - Why not.
Nick - Not intentioally.
Screed - What hair?
LC - Someone might try it as a practical joke. They probably wouldnt'
regret it for long.... though actually, who knows, another time and he might.
Schanke - No, he's confused by his daughter doing it though!
Stonetree? Reese? er....
OK, not many adventurous FK characters...
-Eric
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:44:47 -0700
From: Laudon1965 <Laudon1965@c.......>
Subject: FK hair experiments (was Re: Veering sharply back sorta-on topic)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric McCann" <egmccann@t.......>
> LC - Someone might try it as a practical joke. They probably wouldnt'
> regret it for long.... though actually, who knows, another time and he might.
I'm having visions of some of the younger, more
adventurous (read "stupid") among the Community
deciding it would be great fun to give LaCroix a
Pepe LePeu look while he slept. The resulting
psychic thunder would be heard for miles. <g>
Laurie of the Isles
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:47:35 -0600
From: "Nancy E. Kaminski" <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: Religious symbols other than crosses
Billie-Lee wrote:
> vibes you are talking about? For instance, my antique Rosary
> that is not (yet) blessed........could Nick touch that, or would my
> feelings and beliefs about it make it indeed venerated, and therefore
> harmful to Nick (or any other FK Vampire
I would think the number of Hail Marys and Our Fathers said on it would imbue
it with the requisite vibes.
> missed it <g>). Javier Vachon lived (lives, he is not dead,
> **none** of them are dead!! <g>) in an abandoned Church. Does the fact that
> the Church is abandoned make it no longer venerated and therefore harmless
> to Vachon?
When a church is abandoned it is deconsecrated. Therefore Vachon's church is
harmless to him.
> Vachon was something of a Holy Warrior when he was mortal.
Hardly. He was a conquistador, and their aim was land and gold. They were
Catholic, true, but I honestly doubt many were motivated by religion outside of
converting all the natives as part of taking over their lands. Yes, they did
send over missionaries as part of their expeditionary forces, but what the
conquistadors did (murder, rape, torture, pillage, etc.) was hardly religious.
> tolerance as a Vampire? That is, if the abandoned Church is
> still venerated and/or Sacred, does what he was in mortal life contribute to
> what he can do/touch/tolerate as a Vampire?
I don't get the impression that Vachon was ever particularly devout. The fact
that he lives in a church seems to me a gesture of "thumbing his nose" at both
the vampire mythos and the Church as an institution.
> what my Church did during the Crusades, gracious!!) Solider
> for God while he was mortal, make it easier for him to adapt to venerated
> things as a Vampire?
Remember, he's undergoing painful treatments to regain the ability to hold a
cross. Garlic pills, those horrid shakes, and actually touching holy objects to
build up his tolerance. He's motivated to overcome his vampire revulsion by his
desire to become human. I don't think his former occupation helps him out too
much in this.
Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:53:09 -0800
From: Emily <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Veering sharply back sorta-on topic
And let's not forget Myra, for Halloween. Though I wonder if she'd
attempt to do her hair plaid. <g>
--- Eric McCann <egmccann@t.......> wrote:
> So who in our favourite vamps WOULD do the muti-color-hair thing?
=====
Emily M. Hanson
Home page - http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Web Graphics - http://www.galaxyofimages.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:02:30 EST
From: Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......>
Subject: Re: Religious symbols other than crosses
In a message dated 10/28/01 1:12:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jancox@m....... writes:
> What great answers this thread has received! Thanks to all.
Well, oops Janice, you started this thread, sorry not to have given credit
where credit is due............yes, it is a good thread.
Oh, and <duh> here I was yammering on about Dracula 2000 <waves at Emily>
when I guess it was Fright Night that was being referred to? <waves at Janice>
. Oh well, I got to ask my question on is there any FK canon on the origin
of Vampires.........which was my point <LOL--ok I am confusing myself now!>.
:::::::::::::::::::bows gracefully to Janice and Emily:::::::::::::::::::::::
<<<<<<<<<waves at McL>>>>>>>>>>>>
:>)=
Forever Yours,
Billie-Lee
mccelt2000@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:06:24 +1300
From: Tracey Rayner <trayner@p.......>
Subject: Re: religious symbols
Nancy wrote:
>I would think the number of Hail Marys and >Our Fathers said on it would
>imbue it with the requisite vibes.
Hi all I'm emerging from my stack of notes cause this topic has kinda perked
my interest.
So here's my 0.02, I can't help but think that the aversion to religious
symbols has psychological origins and the physical effects are
psychosomatic. Ok, I know that FK canon doesn't really provide a whole lot
of evidence for this, but Nicks changing reaction to crucifixes in "For I
have sinned" always seemed to me to be a result of a change in personal
belief rather than having a more esoteric explanation. As for the "vibes"
in religous articles in "Dark Knight" Nick held of LaCroix with two peices
of wood held together, I can't see many vibes in that. Then again FK canon
is pretty changable (and debating it makes it that much more fun) :))))
l8r
Trace
_________________________
"I am what I am, and I don't think Betty Ford takes Forever Knight addicts"
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/trayner/FKsite2.html
trayner@p.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:36:42 -0700
From: Laudon1965 <Laudon1965@c.......>
Subject: Re: religious symbols
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracey Rayner" <trayner@p.......>
> As for the "vibes" in religous articles in "Dark Knight"
>Nick held of LaCroix with two peices of wood held
>together, I can't see many vibes in that.
Maybe that's precisely why Nick was able to hold it,
it *was* just two pieces of wood. Perhaps LaCroix
just automatically backed off because he *assumed* it would affect him, like
the Paris Coven vampires in
The Vampire Lestat, who just assumed they couldn't enter
holy ground.
Laurie of the Isles
Bringing the Brie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:00:19 -0700
From: Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Jen, Queen of Inquiries, Inquires
From: "Jen Harding" Came:
> 1) When they're brought across, do they do the pale thing right away
I would think being drained would be bad for the color in your cheeks.
However, seeing as they receive blood again upon awakening...
> 2) I know special effects budgets made canon shaky on if vampires appear in
> snip> do their clothes show up? The Invisible Vamp?
Another reason I don't believe in the no relection gimmick.
> 3) Is there a memory cap? For example, would a vampire from back in, say,
> the Stone Age have much memory left?
Considering that there was no MTV or even TV back then, wouldn't one day's
memory be a repeat of the former's anyway?
> 4) Do the vampires remember everything as a change when they're brought
> across (do they remember long-lost childhood memories)?
0_o There are childhood memories that I am sooooo glad are absent from my
brain. Having, say, all the memories of your "Look at the widdle cute
baby!" year would be the real curse, now wouldn't it? Stuff those puppies
in the No Flashback Zone.
> 5) Would plastic surgery do a vampire any good?
Janette's tattoo was going to disappear the next day so I say not. But then
I wonder why Vachon was so eager to get his hand back in Black Buddah.
Wouldn't he have just grown another like Nick must have grown new body parts
after that pipe bomb? Maybe he wanted his 1529 class ring back?
> 6) Was Jody Fraser from Blind Faith made into a carouche or a regular
> vampire?
Now there is a real nipper! She became a vampire awfully fast, didn't even
take time for her beauty sleep like Nick. (And look at what getting that
extra sleep did for Nick! Wow! If they could just bottle that stuff.
Wait---they do! House Special. Where was I?)
:)=
Kyer, kyer@p.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:00:10 -0500
From: Portia <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Cork Duty?
GROAN!!!!!
<Picking up corks and puttin' 'em in her pocket, puttin' 'em in her
pocket...."
Portia
----- Original Message -----
> :)=
> Kyer, kyer@p.......
> And nice to see your name back in Forkni print, Portia! **Kyer grabs cork
> grabbing tool** Here.
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:25:31 +0800
From: urtikit mindless <urtikit@m.......>
Subject: Re: religious symbols
Trace wrote:
> So here's my 0.02, I can't help but think that the aversion to
> religious symbols has psychological origins and the physical effects are
> psychosomatic.
But then how do we explain the zap from the Raven Knife, which
Nick didn't even know was religious until afterwards (Blackwing)?
If it were merely psychosomatic, we wouldn't see this.
Hmm. I suppose we could try the "it's an icon, we know it's an
icon, he knows it's an icon, we all just didn't know that we knew
it's an icon" tack, but that one always gives me a headache. :-)
One theory going on the whole religious symbol thing that I kinda
like is that it's only certain symbols within any given religion that
really carry a wallop.
Perhaps it is because they are symbols of "The Light" or especially
ceremonial, or even particularly powerful symbols of the religion itself.
For example, notice that Nick can touch a Bible, and the only thing
that burns him is the image of the cross on the Bible, not the whole
Bible itself (False Witness).
So I'd say a St. Francis statue might not be a problem, just as the
statues in the church in FIHS weren't. In fact, St. Francis
himself might not even be a problem, given that eating nuns and
priests only seem to give indigestion (Capital Offense, Strings).
Although Nick did seem very reluctant to touch the priest in FIHS....
I wonder what would have happened had Nick actually tried to snack
on Joan that first time around. :-)
The thing with the Black Buddha -- as Portia pointed out, if the thing
were cursed in the first place, it would render any "Light" power
it might have had null and void.
Anyhoo, add my pennies to the pile.
Kit
urtikit@m.......
--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:31:11 -0800
From: "D. K. Kraft" <cat@e.......>
Subject: Re: religious symbols
Tracey Rayner wrote:
> Nicks changing reaction to crucifixes in "For I have sinned" always seemed
> to me to be a result of a change in personal belief rather than having a
> more esoteric explanation. As for the "vibes" in religous articles in
> "Dark Knight" Nick held of LaCroix with two peices of wood held together
I think the key word here is "belief." To borrow a little from "Fright
Night," simply holding a cross/crucifix up to a vampire has no effect--one
must have faith in the concept of the cross for it to repel the "undead."
In a similar vein (pun completely intended), in the progression of the
series, Nick began to experience a return to faith, to believe that he has a
chance at redemption and therefore is not wholly damned. This belief, IMO, is
what allowed him to view and touch the symbol of life-after-death without
traditional vampiric harm. Likewise, when he grabbed those two pieces of
wood, it wasn't the wood that affected LaCroix, it was Nick's belief behind
the symbol they created. In addition, if you remember the episode, LaCroix's
reaction to quit the "battlefield" wasn't instantaneous, and Nick's hands were
smoking by the time he dropped those two pieces of wood. Interesting
juxtaposition of Nick's existence--vampire, a creature that is
life-*without*-death--with his faith in a life *after* death.
The symbol of the ankh is similar to the cross in that it, also, represents
life after death. Perhaps a vampire's reaction is less to the "religious"
quality of these symbols, and more a reaction to the fact they represent the
complete antithesis of vampiric existence. Sort of like matter and
anti-matter, with the anti-matter powered by belief in "the substance of
things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." As Joan of Arc said,
"Faith. Pure, simple faith."
And yet, for someone like LaCroix, I don't think it will ever be simple...
or attainable. Sometimes I identify with him more than I thought possible...
Waxing Unexpectedly Philosophic --
--
/\ /\ | "Everything that moves serves to
^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | interest and amuse a cat."
->T<- cat@e....... |
~ Lynnwood, WA | -- Francois-Augstin Paradis de Moncrif
___oOO___OOo___ | (1687-1770)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:59:00 -0800
From: "D. K. Kraft" <cat@e.......>
Subject: Re: religious symbols
urtikit mindless wrote:
>
> Trace wrote:
>> I can't help but think that the aversion to religious symbols has
>> psychological origins and the physical effects are psychosomatic.
>
> But then how do we explain the zap from the Raven Knife, which
> Nick didn't even know was religious until afterwards (Blackwing)?
Arrgh, I forgot to comment on this in my last post, and having studied
Native American Trickster legends extensively in college, the whole reasoning
behind the episode of Blackwing kind of escapes me.
However, taking it at face value, the best understanding I have is that the
Raven Knife (leaving the essence of the Tricker's true nature out of it, as
they did in the episode) is a focus or symbol of healing power--true healing.
FK vampires don't heal--they reanimate. Their bodies are essentially in an
unnatural stasis between actual life and actual death, so an item or icon that
is the focus for true healing *beyond* the physical may well have that
characteristic "anti-vampire" effect.
If the writers had really wanted to imbue this item with a true antithesis
to FK vampires, it would have been more appropriate to make the knife associated
with the White Buffalo Woman (a symbol of redemption, sacrifice, and rebirth)
and/or Earth Spirit Woman, the embodiment of the Earth as Mother to all life.
Both would have been more effective as they are in direct opposition to the
life-without-death stasis of vampiric existence. And, they both are empowered
by faith.
I understand what the FK writers were trying to do with the episode, and
that they likely didn't have the time to really vet the underlying mythology
they were trying to use, but I wish just a little more emphasis on quality could
have been applied, here. Blackwing could have been an excellent episode, but
because it deviates from what should be the accepted pattern of reaction for
FK vampires (and uses a improper mythological character, IMHO), it turns out
really, really weak.
But it does have Ger with his shirt unbuttoned, so I supposed it has some
redeeming value in that regard. ;-)
Keeping the Fur Flying --
--
/\ /\ | "Everything that moves serves to
^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | interest and amuse a cat."
->T<- cat@e....... |
~ Lynnwood, WA | -- Francois-Augstin Paradis de Moncrif
___oOO___OOo___ | (1687-1770)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:23:41 -0500
From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: religious symbols
D.K. Kraft wrote:
> I think the key word here is "belief." To borrow a
> little from "Fright Night," simply holding a cross/crucifix
> up to a vampire has no effect--one must have faith in the
> concept of the cross for it to repel the "undead."
In the FK universe, however, it can't be simply a matter of belief on the
part of the vampire, because when LaCroix was brought across a cross had no
more meaning to him or to Divia than a hangman's noose or a headman's axe or
an electric chair would to men of other times. Yet we know from his own
words that it has power over him.
FK never explored (and therefore leaves open for fanfic speculation) what
LaCroix' and his contemporary vampires' reaction might have been when they
discovered that a cross or crucifix did affect them.
FK vampires do have a certain amount of control in the presence of religious
objects. Tran says he won't let the pain of the cross stop him. And Nick was
able to carry on his Mephistophelean (sp?) conversations with Joan with a
large cross looming over him... but his hand did burst into flame when he
tried to touch it.
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
http:\\www.erols.com\mcombs
"RL=Real Life. It's that stuff that keeps happening that gets in the way of
that other stuff."--Sue Clark
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:21:08 -0500
From: Will Steeves <goid@i.......>
Subject: Birth Announcement!!!!! Welcome Andy!!!!! :-) :-)
Hi everyone!!
Some of you will recall from previous postings that my wife Lynn (a former
member of this list) is nine months pregnant with our first child, or
rather, was. :-)
So, without further ado, let me introduce you to the newest member of the
fandom (okay, in 15-20 years or so anyway :-) )
Name: Andy
Born: Sunday, October 21 at 7:37am
Vital Statistics: 6 pounds and 3 ounces, 20 inches err, "tall".
Mom and baby (daddy too :-) ) are doing well, but we delayed the public
announcement by a week because Andy got off to a bit of a rough start,
scared us all half to death, but is doing just fine now.
To begin with, he was born two and a half weeks early, which isn't usually a
problem in itself, but unfortunately though, he had some trouble breathing
right after he was born. (FYI: Many of you probably already know this, but
as a first-time parent, it was explained to me that the reason why a baby is
spanked right after birth is not to torture and cause pain :-) It's to make
sure that the baby cries a "lusty cry", indicating that the baby is
breathing well and has no amniotic fluid in the lungs). He was transferred
out of the care of our midwives (yes, even a "masculinist" like me can
actually support the institution of midwifery :-) ) and into a special care
nursery specialising in the care of critically ill babies (he wasn't
critically ill, but was sent there, just in case).
He briefly appeared to be "jittery" a few times (more so than could be
accounted for from his dad :-) ), so the doctors ordered a whole battery of
tests. They prepared us for the possibility of all kinds of bad news -
anything from brain damage to a blood clotting disorder to epilepsy and
everything in between. Several experts were called in, including a
neurologist, a hematologist, and several pediatricians. (I must say that
I'm glad that we have good health insurance. As a Canadian, at least
nominally, I briefly thought that all things considered, maybe our child
ought to have been born in Canada :-) ).
We were sick from grief this past week, wondering what could be wrong with
our child. The initial symptoms went away gradually during the week and on
Friday all of the tests came back and showed that he was just fine. After
taking him home on Friday night, we've been around the clock ever since,
feeding, changing diapers, putting him to bed, cleaning up messes, washing
him off, etc. It's a wonder that I found time to write this note (much less
the one last night where I begged for calm on the list) because we're always
busy doing something with him.
If anyone wants to see pictures, the first two pictures right after the
birth were just adorable. Let me know if you'd like me to send them along.
He doesn't look like a Gerber Baby just yet, but hey, WE think that he's the
cutest baby in the whole world! :-)
W.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:20:28 -0800
From: "K. C. Smith" <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Re: Ger! (in TRACKER)
Cool!
Thanks, Quinn!
KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:21:48 -0800
From: "K. C. Smith" <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: UT fic?
Anyone know where we can find some good Unholy Trinity (Nick, Nat and
LaCroix) fiction? Shana is driving me nuts!
Thanks!
KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:02:19 EST
From: J L Kerr <Jlkerr1228@a.......>
Subject: Re: Religious symbols other than crosses
I'm not a Buddhist, but isn't buddhism actually consider more of a philosophy
of life rather than an actual religion?
====================================
J L Kerr
jlkerr1228@a.......
members.aol.com/jlkerr7864/f_knight/fiction.htm
====================================
P.S. Someone tell me if you're getting gibberish in this mail. I'm using AOL
7.0.
In a message dated 10/28/01 11:51:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mclisa@m....... writes:
> I've never been comfortable with the Black Buddha thing precisely because of
> its religious reference. Yes, it's true that Buddha is not a god, but a
> figure of Buddha is an object of veneration. (Correct me, please, Buddhists
> on the list if I'm wrong.)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:43:24 -0500
From: Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: religious symbols
Nick did have strong religious beliefs, even if for the longest time he was
in denial...
So I could see where the "faith" part of it WOULD embue to mere sticks with
the "power"....
I hold to the philosophy that it is a bit of both, and more or less is
certain cases like in the of the above.
If a vampire was particularly "religious" s/he woud be affected by
known/beleived religious symbols even if the bearer was NOT particularly
religious.
I also beleive, prior to the widening of the world, that for example a
1600's Native American Vampire would have been as severly affect by a cross
as Nick would be, unless the caveat of a severly true believer were
invovled.
I think some amount of familiarity needs to be invovled as well as actual
belief. But then as stated before, FK canon isnt quite static.
-----Original Message-----
From: Forever Knight TV show [mailto:FORKNI-L@l.......]On Behalf Of
Tracey Rayner
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 6:06 PM
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Subject: Re: religious symbols
As for the "vibes"
in religous articles in "Dark Knight" Nick held of LaCroix with two peices
of wood held together, I can't see many vibes in that. Then again FK canon
is pretty changable (and debating it makes it that much more fun) :))))
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:47:47 -0500
From: knightfangs <knightfangs@h.......>
Subject: Re: FK hair experiments (was Re: Veering sharply back sorta-on topic)
> I'm having visions of some of the younger, more
> adventurous (read "stupid") among the Community
> deciding it would be great fun to give LaCroix a
> Pepe LePeu look while he slept.
Somebody dying one's hair while one's asleep.....hmm...I'm having visions too....
of War XI. What about you Emily? lol
Grace
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:02:35 EST
From: Julia Kocich <JKocich@a.......>
Subject: Re: how to get yourself noticed on forkni-l
Refer to Nick as a "blonde." Men with yellow hair are blond, women with y.h.
are blonde. There. I've said it. Thank you <g>.
Julia
UF list cobra
jkocich@a.......
AIM: jkocich
MSN: jkocich@y.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:11:44 EST
From: Julia Kocich <JKocich@a.......>
Subject: Black Buddha
McLisa wrote:
<< The only thing I can suggest is that this
particular Buddha never was venerated because it seems to have been made for
a non-religious purpose. >>
This Buddha seemed to be an object desired for its very own paranormal
powers. So whatever it may have absorbed from, inter alia, Napoleon (!) would
be a belief in the figure's power to give the current owner his or her own
dearest wish, but not a belief in any religious tradition per se. Which leads
to the question, why didn't it work for either the ... er... countess or
whatever her title was, or for Nick.
Julia
UF list cobra
jkocich@a.......
AIM: jkocich
MSN: jkocich@y.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:12:23 -0700
From: Laudon1965 <Laudon1965@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK hair experiments (was Re: Veering sharply back
sorta-on topic)
----- Original Message -----
From: "knightfangs" <knightfangs@h.......>
> Somebody dying one's hair while one's asleep.....hmm...I'm having visions
> too.... of War XI. What about you Emily? lol
I feel compelled to clarify that I have never read or
participated in a war. I thought of this all on my
demented lonesome. <g>
Laurie of the Isles
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:19:49 -0800
From: phylis sullivan <phylis_s_2000_2001@y.......>
Subject: Re: Birth Announcement!!!!! Welcome Andy!!!!! :-) :-)
--- Will Steeves <goid@i.......> wrote:
> >
> So, without further ado, let me introduce you to the
> newest member of the
> fandom (okay, in 15-20 years or so anyway :-) )
>
> Name: Andy
> Born: Sunday, October 21 at 7:37am
> Vital Statistics: 6 pounds and 3 ounces, 20 inches
> err, "tall".
>
> Congratulations!
I don't think it will take 15-20 years to make Andy
a FK fan. My kids aren't huge fans like their mother
<he he ;}> but at 7 they know who Nick is! ;}
Again, congrats. Sleep will probably come when he is
2yrs! Just kidding! ;} It will probably feel like
that! All sympathy to you < spoken by someone who
dealt with two babies at same time and understand!> Phylis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:42:17 -0500
From: knightfangs <knightfangs@h.......>
Subject: Re: FK hair experiments (was Re: Veering sharply back
sorta-on topic)
> > Somebody dying one's hair while one's asleep.....hmm...I'm having visions
> > too....
> > of War XI. What about you Emily? lol
>
> I feel compelled to clarify that I have never read or
> participated in a war. I thought of this all on my
> demented lonesome. <g>
>
> Laurie of the Isles
Sorry bout that, but it was my first war and my first time as a "victim" along
with Emily. As you've probably been able to guess, Emily and I had our hair
dyed while we slept at the NNP headquarters. It was fun having purple hair for
a short time, but I prefer my own (L'Oreal. Hey, I did pay for it so it's
mine!) auburn much better. LOL
Grace
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:49:59 -0800
From: phylis sullivan <phylis_s_2000_2001@y.......>
Subject: Re: Religious symbols other than crosses
--- Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......> wrote:
>
> Javier Vachon lived (lives, he is
> not dead, **none** of them
> are dead!! <g>) in an abandoned Church. Does the
> fact that the Church is
> abandoned make it no longer venerated and therefore
> harmless to Vachon?
I am going to throw my 2 cents in and then I think
we should take our cents and go to dinner. :}
Does a church go thru a ceremony to become
consecrated and therefore a ceremony to become
unconsecrated? And what about cemetarys? I don't
recall there ever being any episodes in FK that
involved cemetaries but aren't they consecrated as
well? According to some vampire lore, if you were
buried in unconsecrated ground you could come back as
a vampire? Yes, no, maybe. In the first season, Nick
has plenty of trouble inside the church. In the third
season, he goes into the abandoned church that Vachon
is in with no problems. A reflection of his on going
search for humanity and his growing acceptance that he
is not as lost as he thought. "There is good in you!"
Or is it because the church is no longer consecrated?
I used to go to a church that later was converted to a
home, when the congregation got a bigger building. I
wonder if they had a ceremony performed?
Pondering, pondering, pondering and enjoying the
discussion. Phylis
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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 28 Oct 2001 - Special issue (#2001-327)
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