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FORKNI-L Digest - 15 May 2001 to 16 May 2001 (#2001-158)

Wed, 16 May 2001

There are 17 messages totalling 583 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. FK at Cons (2)
  2. things I don't like in a fanfic (2)
  3. Things I don't like in a fandom (4)
  4. I should think before I post (WAS: Re: Things I don't like in a fandom)
     (2)
  5. Season 3 police station
  6. Our need to hear the opinions of others (was :Fanfic likes and
     dislikes)
  7. remedy for =20 (4)
  8. Our need to hear the opinions of others (was :Fanfic likes         Â
        and             dislikes)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 15:09:25 -0700
From:    Wolfy <wolfyknight@y.......>
Subject: Re: FK at Cons

What about GenCon, anyone planning anything for this
years GenCon? I know i'm going this year. maybe we
could figure out something to do if anyone else is
going?

~The one who plans ahead



=====
~Wolfy Knight

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 20:33:31 EDT
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: things I don't like in a fanfic

In a message dated 5/13/01 2:29:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
elighton@b....... writes:

<< IMHO, these are things everyone should try to do away with in fanfic:
  1)Fanfic where the author was clearly using "Smart Quotes" (The ones
 that curl inward) which turn into a bunch of letters instead. >>

The first time I sent out fanfic, I had no idea that my copy would end up
with all sorts of numbers and =20 etc. until it hit the L.  Surprise to me.
Obviously no one is *adding* these on purpose.  They don't know or don't
realize what happens to text on the internet.
So for newbies who need to know.  Always send text over the next  in Basic
Text.  You can choose this a a save option in Word for Windows, anyway.  The
file is save as ***.txt instead of ***.doc.
And that's the way it works.

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 22:04:48 EDT
From:    Julia Kocich <JKocich@a.......>
Subject: Things I don't like in a fandom

Why is any discussion of fanfic always, and I do mean ALWAYS,
such a hot-button issue in the FK fandom?

The mere mention of an opinion causes a tsunami of political
correctness.

I don't know what "constructive" criticism is. How does one tell
an author that she can't spell, can't punctuate, and can't write an
interesting sentence? How many "authors" are willing to hear such
things, no matter how diplomatically they're worded? And how
in the name of Jehosaphat is anyone going to learn to do better
next time if there's no ... support/guidance/pressure to do so?

Yes, everyone has a right to issue fanfic of any quality or of no
perceivable quality. But our collective acquiescence to a forced
silence that doesn't allow open discussion of individual likes,
dislikes, and opinions about fanfic does no one any good, and is,
in the end, a disservice to the fandom itself.

(Get me mad enough, and I'll put up the "FK Fanfic Hall of Shame"
page I've been muttering about ....)

Julia
jkocich@a.......
Arthur Dent has left the planet

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 19:22:33 -0700
From:    Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
Subject: Re: FK at Cons

--- Wolfy <wolfyknight@y.......> wrote:
> What about GenCon, anyone planning anything for this
> years GenCon? I know i'm going this year. maybe we
> could figure out something to do if anyone else is
> going?

I am ALWAYS at GenCon!  Of course being a Star Lady
most of my time is occupied by Star Wars-related
activities, but I have also been known to spend WAY
too much time on the dealer floor, including looking
for...ahem...bootlegs.  I will be easy to spot this
year, as I'll be in a blue renaissance gown with gold
trim, sporting (if my sewing skills aren't totaly
rusty) a firelizard or two as pets. I was thinking on
stocking up on KtK fliers before I left, but if anyone
else is going to be there, please let me know!

Jennifer

=====
"Worlds are lost or worlds are saved/from the dangers dragon-braved."
(Dragonflight)

I'm not delusional.  Just ask my weyrmate or my queen dragon.  (Appologies to
Kelly F. for the cribbed line.)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 19:29:41 -0700
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Things I don't like in a fandom

This is an example of constructive criticism I got at fanfiction.net
(it was a Star Trek story I wrote, not FK).  The writer's points were
valid, and he/she wrote the review without flaming me.  I was
considering doing a sequel to the story, and probably will
eventually.

"Well, I liked the idea behind the story, but the story itself seemed
to simplify too many important plot points instead of giving them the
attention and depth they deserved. Not a bad story, I just wish there
were a little bit more meat on the bone."

I generally have gotten good reviews.  When I was first starting out,
the remarks made were about typical newbie writer mistakes.  This can
be said in nice ways, such as:

I really think your story is good, but since you didn't use a beta
reader, may I suggest you do so next time?  I know someone who is
good at catching typos, grammar mistakes, and mispelled words.  Or
your idea was a good one, but it could be improved upon.  I'd also
point out what the author has done well.

--- Julia Kocich <JKocich@a.......> wrote:

> I don't know what "constructive" criticism is. How does one tell
> an author that she can't spell, can't punctuate, and can't write an
> interesting sentence?

=====
Emily Hanson
Main website - http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Web Graphics - http://www.galaxyofimages.com
ICQ# 73113057

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 22:51:25 -0400
From:    Brenda Bell <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: Things I don't like in a fandom

At 10:04 PM 5/15/2001 -0400, Julia Kocich wrote:

>Why is any discussion of fanfic always, and I do mean ALWAYS,
>such a hot-button issue in the FK fandom?
>The mere mention of an opinion causes a tsunami of political
>correctness.

It's probably because we have a number of folk who use this fandom and its
fanfic as a therapy for a number of clinical psychological and psychiatric
problems, of which low self-esteem and feelings of powerlessness are among
the most-frequently manifested symptoms. Criticism may be interpreted as
persecution and an attack on one's power in what otherwise appears to be
(and what the fan believes s/he needs to be) a persecution-free environment.

>How many "authors" are willing to hear such
>things, no matter how diplomatically they're worded?

I notice the quotes, and submit that if they are used, the "flames
cheerfully ignored" disclaimer is usually not far behind.

>  And how
>in the name of Jehosaphat is anyone going to learn to do better
>next time if there's no ... support/guidance/pressure to do so?

As you've noted, there are two classes of authors: those who write
primarily for themselves and/or as therapy, and those who write for others
and want to hone their writing craft. The first will rarely be interested
in critique or criticism; the second solicit both and use the critique to
improve their writing.

>But our collective acquiescence to a forced
>silence that doesn't allow open discussion of individual likes,
>dislikes, and opinions about fanfic does no one any good, and is,
>in the end, a disservice to the fandom itself.

Perhaps -- but then again, perhaps it is more a service to the fans who
need this sort of supportive, critique- and criticism-free environment to
be able to deal with their lives to-date and get on with a more "normal" life.


Brenda Faith Bell       webwarren@e.......
Consultant, The Web Warren      http://www.webwarren.com/

arachne@w.......
bfbell@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 23:15:22 -0400
From:    Brenda Bell <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: I should think before I post (WAS: Re: Things I don't like in a fandom)

At 10:51 PM 5/15/2001 -0400, I wrote:
>At 10:04 PM 5/15/2001 -0400, Julia Kocich wrote:

This really should have gone to Julia personally.

Blame fatigue if you wish, or just berate me any which way will make you
feel better.


Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
         UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 23:30:47 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: I should think before I post (WAS: Re: Things I don't like in a
         fandom)

In a message dated 5/15/01 10:22:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
webwarren@e....... writes:

> Blame fatigue if you wish, or just berate me any which way will make you
>  feel better.
Screed's offerin' wot ta come o'er, comfort ya h'in yar time o'
embarrass-ment-station, and put the lip lock on ya fer a Screedy Slurp<tm>
(which is not to be confused with a Screedy Snack<tm>, or a Scooby Snack, for
that matter)

He jest LUVS the fiesty wenches!

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 May 2001 22:40:45 -0500
From:    "Nancy E. Kaminski" <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: things I don't like in a fanfic

I think this is a discussion that's worth having. Thanks for bringing it up,
Sunny! I'll add my two cents' worth to it. This is, of course, all in my
humble opinion, which goes without saying.

---I agree with the sentiment against =20 and other odd characters that
creep into a story, and letting words wrap at odd places. Augh! That makes
reading the story a real chore, and I often don't bother.

---I also don't care for a lot of crossovers if they're really unlikely. If
the characters don't exist in the same time, it's really asking a lot of me
to believe they could ever interact.

---I don't like other supernatural beings to horn in on my vampires.
Vampires are enough, thengyewverymuch.

---I don't like stories that revolve around a non-FK character.

---Mary Sue, you're outta here!

---Grammar and spelling are important to me (it's how I make my living!). An
honest effort is appreciated.

---I'll buy virtually any plot line if it's well written and plausible
within canon. Implausible (unless parody or humor) gets the ol' delete
button.

---I get irked with stories that have the characters doing stuff no one
would ever do in a place of work. I've read stories that revolved around
stuff that would have virtually everyone up on charges of sexual harrassment
in a flash. I refuse to believe that the Metro Toronto Police or the
Coroner's Office are that badly run. Maybe I've worked in offices way too
long, but there you go.

And to offset this list of dislikes, here are my likes:

---Good writing. I'll suspend my dislike list if the story is really
well-written. Apache's stories about Tracy and Vachon convinced me that
those two characters actually did have some merit. <g>

---A story that reveals something new about a beloved character.

---Good historical research. I love to see our vamps in previous eras, if
it's historically correct.

---Did I mention good writing? <g>

Opinionatedly yours,
Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 06:21:10 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: Things I don't like in a fandom

> I don't know what "constructive" criticism is. How does one tell
> an author that she can't spell, can't punctuate, and can't write an
> interesting sentence? How many "authors" are willing to hear such
> things, no matter how diplomatically they're worded?
Perhaps the way to handle this is to acknowledge that different
people are writing for different reasons.

For some, writing is a way to relax and have fun.  They aren't
interested in "good writing" as much as they are in amusing
themselves.  Other people are seriously intent upon the mechanics
and attempt to reach up off the page and drag the reader into the
story with them to see a world described only by their words.

Only the author knows why they are writing and what their
intentions are.

If an author includes an e-mail address and directly asks for
comments, they are in the group that thinks they want criticisms
and wants to hear about what others think is wrong so they can
improve.

If an author doesn't include such a statement, I assume that they
are writing purely for pleasure and are creating their own fantasy
that they have chosen to share.  I won't send such a person
criticisms of any sort since they are not requesting them.

When sending constructive criticisms to someone who is
requesting them, it is also very important to tell them what they are
doing correctly and what you really liked about the story.  This is
more than polite, it is important to the development of a writer.  You
have to know what is weak and strong in your technique in order to
improve it (you won't want to accidentally change something that
was being done well since no one had ever said how much they
liked that).

        Tim
 Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 08:49:07 -0700
From:    Lisa McDavid <cecily1349@y.......>
Subject: Season 3 police station

I have been told that the building used for the season 3 police
station was actually the Hockey Hall of Fame. Can anyone tell me
if that is or is definitely not true? I've just been reminded
that the HHoF is supposed to be haunted, which is certainly
appropriate if the building is the season 3 station.

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 12:25:00 -0400
From:    "Cindy L. Clark" <ClarkCindy@e.......>
Subject: Re: Our need to hear the opinions of others (was :Fanfic likes and
         dislikes)

. For instance, I have
stayed away from writing a story about Nat being pregnant because I know it
has been way overdone. *Even though I REALLY want to sometimes because I am
pregnant and it is a way to relate my experiences....

I, too have read MANY stories about Nat being pregnant.  One angle that I
don't recall being covered in the stories I've read, though, is, what if the
baby isn't Nick's?  In several episodes, Nick tries to encourage Nat to
become more involved with a "normal" life.  Nat even tries to convince
herself of this in some episodes.  How would Nick deal with this, if it
became a reality, whether Nat's new partner stayed in the picture or not?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 10:57:58 -0700
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: remedy for =20

It seems that quite a few people have had problems with weird document
formatting that the web sometimes forces upon certain stories. However
there is a solution to this and all formatting problems (extra spacing,
extra paragraph breaks due to email format that carry on to the html
file). I hope my solution would help people who really would like to enjoy
a story and can’t because of these oddities that happen without the
writer’s intent:

The first thing in these cases is to save the story on your hard drive as
a .txt file

--If the story is posted on a web page as an html file, click on
file->save as, and in the ‘save as type’ menu select ‘Text File (*.txt)’
--If the story is emailed to you on your outlook account open the email
and follow the exact same procedure. If it is sent to a web based email
account (yahoo, Hotmail, etc) forward it to your outlook account. The idea
is to get the story as a .txt file.

Open the story in MS word. Now is time to get rid of the =20s.

--Go to Edit->Replace (or press Ctrl+H)

--In the ‘Find what’ box type ‘=20’ (or any of the weird characters you
want to get rid of)

--In the ‘Replace with’ box type nothing. Sometimes this causes some words
to glue together, if that happens type a space in the ‘Replace with’ box.

-- Press the ‘Replace all’ button.

This is the way to get rid of ALL format problems especially when you want
to print a story. If you check the ‘Replace’ window there is a ‘More’
button at the bottom that expands the window giving you more options such
as a ‘Special’ button that allows you to specify things like paragraph
marks or tab characters. I have used this feature to format so many
stories that I now can read and format any story no matter how odd it
looks. Now as for grammar and punctuation problems…

If anyone has more questions in this regard or needs me to explain this in
more detail please email me. I’d be glad to help.

Sunny


=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie, Immortal Beloved, Dark Trinity, with UF and
Enforcement tendencies

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 14:07:58 -0400
From:    Jeannie Ecklund <gersknightlady@c.......>
Subject: Re: Our need to hear the opinions of others (was :Fanfic likes     Â
                and             dislikes)

> I, too have read MANY stories about Nat being pregnant.  One angle that I
> don't recall being covered in the stories I've read, though, is, what if the
> baby isn't Nick's?

There is a sight with a story where Nat is pregnant by another man.
Its called 5 years later.  Nick and Nat are not close but talking again.

http://members.home.net/lbowman/#

Its good and I am looking forward to more.
Jeannie

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 14:32:23 EDT
From:    Phoenix348@a.......
Subject: Re: remedy for =20

Something that may be of help as well for you AOL users.

I have written all of my FKFIC-L stories in my AOL mail program and sent them
directly to the list from there, and I've never had any formatting problems
with my stories as they appeared on FKFIC-L to my knowledge.  Once the
stories are written, I then copied and pasted them into my word processor and
formatted them as I wished.

This may be of help to those of you who are writing your stories in a word
processor and then pasting them into your AOL mail.  This also helps you
determine how many lines you'll have in your post in advance...determine
cut-off points, etc.

Stephen Lansing
Phoenix348@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 11:55:18 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: remedy for =20

I write my fics on MSWord.  I write the first few lines in a normal
document, then click on Save As.  Under format, I chose "plain text with no
line breaks."  Then I get rid of the original document, open the saved .txt
document, and continue on.  Once finished, I copy the story into a new mail
in Outlook Express and post it to the list.

So far, so good...except for the occasional typos. <g>

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q....... or stormborn@l.......
http://stormborn.tripod.com/

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 May 2001 13:18:49 -0700
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: remedy for =20

I've always pasted stories directly from the MS word document and had
no problems to my knowledge.

=====
Emily Hanson
Main website - http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Web Graphics - http://www.galaxyofimages.com
ICQ# 73113057

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 15 May 2001 to 16 May 2001 (#2001-158)
***************************************************************


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