FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 5 Apr 2001 to 6 Apr 2001 (#2001-114)

Fri, 6 Apr 2001

There are 23 messages totalling 589 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Nicks Crusade (2)
  2. LaCroix evil? (4)
  3. LaCroix evil? (was LC's view of fatherhood)
  4. May I post this? (4)
  5. NIgel's Book
  6. ADMIN: Looking for NiteMar and Erika Wilson
  7. Nature of vampires (was: LC evil?) (6)
  8. Caddy Sighting (2)
  9. This weekend
 10. In the dictionary under "chagrin"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:13:45 +0100
From:    Linda Hepden <Kezia.Hepden@b.......>
Subject: Re: Nicks Crusade

Molly/StormBorn wrote:

> Too bad Nick's spoils didn't include some snazzier clothes! <g>
>
Oh, I dunno - as a Nunkie, I have to confess - even I thought Nicolas de
Brabant looked kinda cute in *that* white nightshirt when Uncle brought him
across!  And have you seen the - um - fashions of early 13th century Europe?
Sooo dull and dowdy!  Not something any of our favourite trio of vampires
are likely to recall with any fondness!

Kezia Hepden

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:05:16 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix evil?

Andrea wrote a bunch of stuff that I am too sleepy to sort out except to say
that if LaCroix is evil, then aren't we all for we have all committed
selfish act or thought.  Personally, I can think of only one being that is
evil, and LaCroix and all his prodigeny combined don't even come close.

Did Nick ever call LaCroix evil?  I remember him calling him 'depraved'---to
which LC agreed. Lol! Great delivery of that line by Mr. Bennet, btw.

Off to bed,
Kyer, kyer@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:23:41 +0000
From:    "A." <fictionbyA@p.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix evil? (was LC's view of fatherhood)

> To me the predator animal to vampire comparison is a poor analogy.
> An animal has the ability to make a choice about hunting and killing.

errr... that should be that an animal does NOT have the ability to
make a choice

A.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:56:43 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Nicks Crusade

Kezia wrote:
>>Oh, I dunno - as a Nunkie, I have to confess - even I thought Nicolas de
Brabant looked kinda cute in *that* white nightshirt when Uncle brought him
across!<<

Yes, the nearly-transparent chemise *was* alluring--but what was with that
burlap-y tunic or robe or whatever it was?  Eeeuuuuw!

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:39:07 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: May I post this?

McL,

I received this, forwarded without the author's name on an X-Files
list.  I was wondering if it would be okay/topical to post to FORKNI-L
since we have so many folks onlist who write in at least the FK
fandom.

Laurie of the Isles

> I've gotten very tired of seeing some of my favorite fanfic authors
> chased off the net and driven to musedeath by flamers. I've decided
> that flamers are bullies that have to be made accountable for their
> little anonymous donations of poison.  I've set up a site here:
>
>
> http://noflames.freehomepage.com/noflame.html
>
>
> where fanfic authors can post the actual flames they have received so
> we can all feel better that we've all been singled out by these
> morons at least once in our online life, and it has nothing to do
> with our abilities as writers.  I know this won't stop the flaming,
> but at least it creates a specific forum for ALL fanficcers
> everywhere to unite against this crap.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:57:18 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: May I post this?

Okay, obviously I shouldn't be allowed out unescorted, I just
sent an apology for this mispost to FKFIC-L.

:: sigh ::

Laurie of the Isles
unsubbing

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:08:02 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: May I post this?

Lol!  I blame tax time.  Everybody's mind in the U.S. is screwed up and
their eyeballs crossed from all the little lines and directions.
Maybe that explains the dearth of stories in FKFIC-L right now.  <sigh>
Just when ya *really* need a diversion...  Or a duplicate set of forms...
(If Evil LaCroix <g> wishes to crush anything, he has my permiss to do his
thing over at the IRS all he likes.)

:)=
Kyer, kyer@p.......
responding to:Laurie's " Okay, obviously I shouldn't be allowed out
unescorted, I just sent an apology for this mispost to FKFIC-L. :: sigh ::"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:41:54 -0400
From:    Portia <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: May I post this?

Laurie!!! Are you still there???  Say your only KIDDING!!!!!

Portia

----- Original Message -----
> :: sigh ::
>
> Laurie of the Isles
> unsubbing

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:52:33 -0000
From:    Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: NIgel's Book

Now that Nigel's book has been published, does anyone know if he's going to
do a tape version?

Barb

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:22:09 -0500
From:    "Nancy E. Kaminski" <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: ADMIN: Looking for NiteMar and Erika Wilson

I'm trying to contact Erika Wilson (ewilson1@e.......) and NiteMar
(NiteMar@w.......). They are finalists in the 2000 Forever Knight Fan
Fiction Awards, and I hope to get their permission to list their stories on the
final ballot.

If anyone is in contact with them, will you please ask them to email me at
nancykam@m.......?

Thank you,
Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......
Awards Administrator

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:49:28 -0400
From:    urtikit@m.......
Subject: Re: Nature of vampires (was: LC evil?)

Molly/Stormborn wrote:
>Not having seen the tapes in a long time, I'm not sure, but aren't there one
>or a few episodes where LaCroix tells Nick that his diet of animal blood is
>making him weak, or that he's starving himself?

Well, sure, if you believe what LC says.  ;-)  One might question
his logic (read: motives) in making such a statement, however.
Just as one might question Nick or Nat's logic on the other side of the
coin.  Flashback with me now to the dueling statements on Nick's condition
after staying off the red stuff:  LaCroix claims it makes Nick pale
in DK I; Nat claims it makes Nick's cheeks rosy in FtB.
Frankly, he looked the same to me.  :-)

>Well, vampires aren't human...so why shouldn't they consider humans a
>subspecies?  I'm a mammal, so is a cow, pig or deer.

Hm.  Subspecies?  You mean as in a one or more divisions within a
species?
Like the Asian lion vs. the African lion?  Interesting!
Which would make sense, because by usual definition, these varieties
within a species can interbreed successfully.  And we've seen that
happen a enough times in FK.  Lotsa little converts running around.
Any zoologists, virologists, or even botanists on the list care to take
a stab at a Linnean classification of LC?
At first glance, it would seem kingdom = Animalae; phlum = Chordata;
class = getting dicey here, but Mammalia; order = Primate;
family = Hominidae; genus = Homo;
species = H. fellodentata-sapiens
(Fello, meaning "to suck/sucking" <g>, dentata="toothed",
if my rusty Latin is holding up.)
Ahem.
Or do you suppose LaCroix considers himself the same breed as Perry?
(Canis sanguisuga-familiaris?)

Waaaay too much time on my hands.  :-)
Kit
urtikit@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:47:34 EDT
From:    Julia Kocich <JKocich@a.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix evil?

>  To me the predator animal to vampire comparison is a poor analogy.
>  An animal has the ability to make a choice about hunting and killing.
>  [sic] The fundamental differnce here is that vampires make a choice.
>  LaCroix chooses to kill.  He has the ability to opt for not killing
>  humans, but he does.

<smile> It dawns on me that the tone of this discussion is ... er ...
colored by the fact that it is being held by humans and not
bovines, in whose case the subject line, naturally, would be ...
"Is Nick evil?"

As I was watching the "Sopranos" recently, I recognized something
in that show that for me lies at the heart of FK's strength: both
shows feature "monsters" who are shown being BOTH monstrous
and "normal," BOTH bloodthirsty and loving, BOTH thoughtlessly
brutal and melancholy over their existence and their deeds, BOTH
coldblooded killers and (attempting to be) good family members <g>.

If LaCroix were simply "evil," would we care? Would Nick still be
alternately fighting him and fighting at his side? Would we care for
Nick as much, if all he faced were a one-dimensional "evil" father?

I'm not trying to be morally relativistic here, but unless you wish to,
as some do, call all humans who eat meat or fish that other humans
have gone to the trouble of making available to them as "evil," we
should give the vampires their complexities, much as "Sopranos"
leaves you feeling sorry for all the characters, guilty as well as innocent.

Best,
Julia
jkocich@a.......
UF list cobra

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 01:07:26 -0400
From:    KD Williams <searchgsd@p.......>
Subject: Caddy Sighting

I thought it was a sleep deprived delusion at first. After all, I had just
gotten off working nights and I'd only had a few hours sleep. But, when I
turned around and went back, there sat a Caddy just like Nick's in a parking
lot. Same year model, same color, same everything and completely restored!
What a huge car. It made even my Firebird look like a matchbox toy!

I looked around for Nick but he was nowhere to be seen! It wasn't long after
sunrise, maybe I should have checked the trunk! <g>

KD Williams
*** searchgsd@p....... *** http://searchgsd.tripod.com/fkfic.htm ***
I'm an optimist, but I don't think it helps.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:13:31 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Nature of vampires (was: LC evil?)

Kit wrote:
>>Well, sure, if you believe what LC says.  ;-)  One might question his
logic (read: motives) in making such a statement, however. Just as one might
question Nick or Nat's logic on the other side of the coin.<<

Well, that's a good point!  It's often occured to me that Nick and LaCroix
are fascinated with each other because they're opposite, but now I'm
pondering that each has what the other lacks.  Nick lets his emotions drive
him rather than his reason, and LaCroix represses his emotions and reasons
too much.

>>Flashback with me now to the dueling statements on Nick's condition after
staying off the red stuff:  LaCroix claims it makes Nick pale in DK I; Nat
claims it makes Nick's cheeks rosy in FtB. Frankly, he looked the same to
me.  :-)<<

I always have to talk back to Nat when I see that scene!  "Rosy?  Apparently
someone forgot to tell the makeup department!"

<snip Linnean classification>  Oh, that's right, confuse me with facts! <g>

Personally, I think vampires are cats with opposable thumbs.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:54:10 -0500
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: Caddy Sighting

> KD Williams wrote:

> turned around and went back, there sat a Caddy just like Nick's in a parking
> lot. Same year model, same color, same everything and completely restored!
> What a huge car. It made even my Firebird look like a matchbox toy!

Where are you? The actual Caddy is in Toronto---it was bought by a film crew
guy and restored. I saw it at LCA2 --- it was on display there. What a
gorgeous hunk of steel! Maybe the guy is actually driving it now that spring
has come.

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:11:27 -0700
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: This weekend

I am going on digest temporarily, as I will be away for the weekend - no
computer access at Grandma's house!

Emily

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:12:12 +0000
From:    "A." <fictionbyA@p.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix evil?

Kyer wrote:

> Andrea wrote a bunch of stuff that I am too sleepy to sort out except to say
> that if LaCroix is evil, then aren't we all for we have all committed
> selfish act or thought.

No, I do not think selfishness and evil are the same thing.  In fact,
it would be absurd for people to live their lives without exercizing a
degree of selfishness.  However, I think that coupled with an
intention to bring misery and pain to another person, sure, that's
evil.

Andrea

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:36:16 -0500
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Nature of vampires (was: LC evil?)

At 09:49 PM 4/5/01 -0400, urtikit@m....... wrote:
>Flashback with me now to the dueling statements on Nick's condition
>after staying off the red stuff:  LaCroix claims it makes Nick pale
>in DK I;

In DK I, I think Nick had been staying away from blood entirely.  It wasn't
a question of animal blood vs. human blood.  LC tells Nick he needs blood
to fight and to live, but in the warehouse (or was that a slaughterhouse?),
he dips a dipper into a vat of blood and pours it on Nick's face.  Surely
that was pig's blood, not human blood.

I don't think there's anywhere where anyone makes a distinction between
human blood and animal blood as far as how they affect a vampire's strength.


Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK Site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:47:19 -0500
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix evil?

At 03:12 PM 4/6/01 +0000, A. wrote:

>No, I do not think selfishness and evil are the same thing.  In fact, it
>would be absurd for people to live their lives without exercizing a degree
>of selfishness.  However, I think that coupled with an intention to bring
>misery and pain to another person, sure, that's evil.

Maybe that's the crux of the issue.  How often is LaCroix trying to bring
misery and pain to another person and how often is he simply satisfying his
own desires?  (For human blood, to keep Nick with him, etc.)

On the other hand, if he is so selfish, that in satisfying his own desires,
he is constantly bringing pain and misery to others, is that really not evil?



Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK Site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:06:57 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: In the dictionary under "chagrin"

Apologies for what was literally a fit of choler.

I can only chalk it up to extreme frustration and
embarassment, and a lunch that was *not*
sitting well.

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:14:50 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Nature of vampires (was: LC evil?)

Margie wrote:
>>I don't think there's anywhere where anyone makes a distinction between
human blood and animal blood as far as how they affect a vampire's
strength.<<

Yet, in FtB, Nick doesn't run to the nearest slaughterhouse, he goes
straight to the Raven.  And then there's Janette's reaction in CB after
taking a sip from Nick's glass--she shudders, makes a face, and says, "It's
cow, isn't it?"  From scenes like these, may we infer that at least the
taste and/or experience are different?  And in FM, Alexandra seems to be
quite a match for Nick, even those she's at least 400 years younger.

Of course, YMMV.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:17:08 -0500
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Nature of vampires (was: LC evil?)

At 10:14 AM 4/6/01 -0700, StormBorn wrote:

>Yet, in FtB, Nick doesn't run to the nearest slaughterhouse, he goes
>straight to the Raven.  And then there's Janette's reaction in CB after
>taking a sip from Nick's glass ... From scenes like these, may we infer that
>  at least the taste and/or experience are different?

Oh yeah, definately.  I think that was the point of someone's earlier
post.  If vampires don't need human blood to live, but human blood
tastes/feels better than animal blood, and a vampire chooses to live on
human blood rather than animal blood, is the vampire evil?  (Just trying to
keep the facts straight in the discussion here, or, at least, trying to
separate what's stated canon from what's interpretation.)

>   And in FM, Alexandra seems to be
>quite a match for Nick, even those she's at least 400 years younger.

True, but there's also scenes that show Nick's strength, or at least imply
it.  In Unreality T.V., he intimidates the other vampire (Michael?) with no
problem. Who knows about Alexandra?  She was awfully angry.  Maybe even
vampires are affected by adrenalin.

In any case, he certainly seems to be able to do what he needs to do to
survive, even though he's drinking animal blood rather than human blood.  I
am simply making the argument that drinking human blood is a choice for
vampires, not a necessity.  Of course, YMMV.

Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK Site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:39:56 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Nature of vampires (was: LC evil?)

Margie wrote:
>>I am simply making the argument that drinking human blood is a choice for
vampires, not a necessity.<<

I agree with that.  However, I can't consider them absolutely evil for
killing humans for blood.  As LaCroix said, "Mortals die--does it really
matter when or how?" (or something to that effect.)  If that belief makes me
evil in the eyes of some, <shrug>.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 5 Apr 2001 to 6 Apr 2001 (#2001-114)
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