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FORKNI-L Digest - 19 Mar 2001 to 20 Mar 2001 (#2001-89)

Tue, 20 Mar 2001

There are 24 messages totalling 883 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Regarding Tripod & Lycos and the missing sites
  2. news on the FK fansite purge-from another list
  3. Sites At Tripod
  4. Tripod (2)
  5. my site
  6. Nigel Bennet Alert.
  7. Double Message?
  8. Webhosting solutions
  9. Ack!
 10. Last Knight question
 11. Mail Servers Are...
 12. Does it bother anyone else? (10)
 13. Vampire shows and FK
 14. New Story site URL

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:22:54 -0500
From:    Mickey <wench@a.......>
Subject: Regarding Tripod & Lycos and the missing sites

This was sent to me for the FK Loop. Annmarie

FROM: shelaghc@a.......

Feel free to post this to the FKLoop if you like:

I've been in contact with someone from Associated Press concerning
the mass deletion of sites by Tripod.

They would like to talk with people who have lost their sites in
order to research the story.

Please email me (shelaghc@a....... ) offlist if you are willing to talk to
the news media about this situation. I will put anyone in touch with AP who
would like to publicize what has been going on.

For those concerned with privacy issues, please remember that the
byword for legitimate news media (which Associated Press is a part
of) is to protect the source. No names will go out for anyone that
requests privacy.

But without information going out on the news and to the general
public, Tripod will have no accountability - no one to answer to.

Please feel free to forward this to other lists (I've posted to a
couple of my Sentinel Lists). Since sites other than fanfic were also
involved, anyone who knows someone that lost a non-fanfic or non-
fannish site, please forward this posting to them as well.

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:26:56 EST
From:    TRAPPERG2@a.......
Subject: news on the FK fansite purge-from another list

-----Original Message-----

Fannish network sources in the form of a contact with a Senior Programmer
at Tripod, have informed us that, in fact, sweeper bug at Tripod went
insane this weekend, and deleted fully half their websites.  There was no
purge. There was no selective fannish bashing.  It's apparently hugely
embarassing to them, and they're working as fast as they can to get the
sites restored.

Inside scoop from Derek Bruneau, director of engineering and personal
publishing at Tripod:

"What's happened is that a technical glitch caused a bunch of sites to be
removed accidentally. They're being restored today. Believe me, it wasn't
targeted at anyone's site in particular. Lots of different sites [were
swept] --including many of our favorites. It was just a really bad bug.
Small bug, big effect.  we're working as quickly as we can to get
everyone's site back online. We know how terrible this is for members, so
we apologize profusely.  It's the last thing anyone needed right now."


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:38:42 -0800
From:    Teresita Tazon <teresitatazon@n.......>
Subject: Sites At Tripod

Hi Everyone,

In an effort to keep this in the FK world...

How would our vamps feel about all the wonderful FK fanfiction being dropped
from Tripod recently?  I think we'd be seeing some glowing red eyes and
bared fangs directed to Tripod, Lycos, etc.  I think any good news regarding
this problem may help to keep our FK friends from draining Tripod's PTB.
Therefore, I am forwarding the info below.

PLEASE NOTE:*This blurb was passed to me from another list I'm on, but I
think it comes from good sources.  I tried to find the information at Lycos
and at Tripod, but there was nothing about this problem that I could locate.
I hope the info below is more truth than rumor, but keep in mind that it is
now third or fourth hand and is **without** verification.*

> >>From another list....
> >>-----Original Message-----
>
> Fannish network sources in the form of a contact with a Senior
> Programmer at Tripod, have informed us that, in fact, a sweeper bug at
> Tripod went insane this weekend, and deleted fully half their websites.
> There was no purge. There was no selective fannish bashing.  It's
> apparently hugely embarrassing to them, and they're working as fast as
> they can to get the sites restored.
>
> Inside scoop from Derek Bruneau, director of engineering and personal
> publishing at Tripod:
>
> "What's happened is that a technical glitch caused a bunch of sites to
> be removed accidentally. They're being restored today. Believe me, it
> wasn't targeted at anyone's site in particular. Lots of different sites
> [were swept] --including many of our favorites. It was just a really
> bad bug.
> Small bug, big effect.  we're working as quickly as we can to get
> everyone's site back online. We know how terrible this is for members,
> so we apologize profusely.  It's the last thing anyone needed right
> now."


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:12:43 -0600
From:    eowyn3@j.......
Subject: Tripod

Hi Y'all!

This was forwarded to another fan list that I'm on.  I guess we'll just
have to wait and see if Lycos/Tripod follows up on this.

>Inside scoop from Derek Bruneau, director of engineering and personal
publishing at Tripod:

"What's happened is that a technical glitch caused a bunch of sites to be
removed accidentally. They're being restored today. Believe me, it wasn't
targeted at anyone's site in particular. Lots of different sites [were
swept] --including many of our favorites. It was just a really bad bug.
Small bug, big effect.  we're working as quickly as we can to get
everyone's site back online. We know how terrible this is for members, so
we apologize profusely.  It's the last thing anyone needed right now."<

This was also posted to the same list:

><< I work for Tripod.  I sit next to Geoff (Customer Service Head) and
Derek (Head of Engineering).

 Tripod had a bug in a software program called the "Extirpator" which
 automates removal of abusive accounts.  (You know the kind that spam 100,000
 people for Porno.).

 It disabled about 30,000 accounts by mistake starting Thursday evening.

 ALL ACCOUNTS ARE BEING RESTORED -- NO ONE LOST ANY INFORMATION.

 And an apology letter to those accounts that were disabled is being sent.
 Everyone at Tripod is really upset that so many folks were inconvenienced. >>

 >>

McLisa, sorry for the long quotes but I thought people would like to
know.

Terri
eowyn3@j.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:44:01 -0800
From:    Klytaimnestra <lbowman@c.......>
Subject: my site

Just a note for anyone who might have been trying to reach my site (I know,
I flatter myself... but I've had a surprising number of hits lately) (I
think more than 10 hits a week is surprising, perhaps I should add) - I
acquired a copy of Dreamweaver & Fireworks last week, and of course spent
all sorts of time doing a bunch of cool things to the site with flash and
rollover buttons and what-have-you, and uploaded the result.  And only later
realised that it now took about 90 seconds to load the index page.  I have
now taken that page down, and put up one that takes 10 seconds.  Though it's
not quite as cool, alas ... still, it's cooler than what I had before.
Anyway, if you were trying to get to the site this weekend, and gave up
because it was taking forever to load, that problem has been corrected.
Sorry!

I have not, however, actually updated any CONTENT, I should say. Perhaps all
those hours I spent playing with the new web-authoring programs might have
been better spent finishing "Knights Errant".  Live & learn ...

K
--
Klytaimnestra             lbowman@c.......
Fanfiction at http://members.home.net/lbowman

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:46:21 -0500
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Nigel Bennet Alert.

HAving fallen behind on my tapes, I finally got to see last weeks Jules
Verne episode, and who was right htere portyraing a really character was
NIGEL BENNET. (yes I DID look at the credits to be sure...)

Did anyone else see this and I missed the posts... or did I find something
neat?

--
Cecilia
Lady Ariadne--webmistress
http://www.wildbadgers.net
ICQ# 10820105
--

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:06:15 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Tripod

Thank goodness!  I'm breathing a little easier now, knowing it wasn't a
deliberate crackdown.  Oh my gosh, I'd hate to be the programmer who worked
on that software.

Those who made backups of Forever Knight sites, you didn't waste your time,
because this could easily happen again and on other servers.  I had backups
before, of course, but then my computer crashed not once, but *TWICE* within
four weeks, and I had to replace the hard drive in the end.
Since then, I've learned the value of making backups to various media, including
the web and CD ROMs.

Emily

A number of people wrote:
> "What's happened is that a technical glitch caused a bunch of sites to be
> removed accidentally.

=====
Emily M. Hanson
Visit my homepage at http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Fanfic - http://www.geocities.com/hansone.geo/myfanfic.html
Message Board - http://wwwboard.net/bbs1/emilyh/wwwboard.sht

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:28:15 -0600
From:    eowyn3@j.......
Subject: Double Message?

Hi Y'all!

I don't know how it happened but I think I sent the same message twice to
the list and that's after discovering that others had already passed on
the same info!

I'm really sorry if you got my earlier message twice.  I did change the
addy to send it to another list, but I guess my computer had other ideas.
 Sorry about that Lisa!

Terri
eowyn3@j.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:46:46 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Webhosting solutions

I got this on a list in another fandom, I thought it might be of use to
those whose sites are now homeless.

Laurie of the Isles

<<The Boycott Tripod page and they offer some options for free
    webhosting:
 http://cerulia.net/tripod/

 Another host is freeservers:
 http://www.freeservers.com/

 Slashcity offers lowcost hosting for slash sites:
 http://www.slashcity.com/
 (or .org or .net)    >>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:58:10 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Ack!

Apologies for the now no longer topical Tripod related post. I'd
been out all day and was just getting to my mail.  That'll teach
me to scroll down and check subject headers before settling
in to read.

Chagrined,
Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:14:53 +0100
From:    Cloudrider <cloudrider@a.......>
Subject: Re: Last Knight question

Got a little long, sorry...

From: Klytaimnestra <lbowman@c.......>
  > There's a few seconds when he COULD be draining her, but GWD made sure that
  > we couldn't tell?
Might very well have been the intention, but IMO the way it is *cut* it's just
too short for draining anyway.

   > If he had in fact been completely draining her, the line "I can't condemn
   > her" etc. makes perfect sense.
Also makes perfect sense when he just refuses to bring her across...

> But if he's not draining her, what is he doing?  I mean, what am I to
> hypothesize that he's doing?  (....) But how do I
> get around that few seconds? He's too close to her to be just looking
> regretfully into her cold, pale face.

Well, what we're shown: He's kissing, a tender slightly extended kiss :-) We see
that he's not moving exactly hurried, rather slow motion in his grief. After we
hear him stop talking, he slowly approaches her cheek, we hear a little uh...
sound, he kisses (3 secs) and we just catch the end of it. No missing seconds,
not even cheese needed <g>


From: Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
> She got hit twice. The first bullet is one that passed through Nick's body
> (...) and then hit Tracy in the stomach (she is
> behind him and a little to one side (...) That stunned look on Tracy's face is
> as much a reaction to being hit as it is to seeing Nick as a vampire.

I don't really think Tracy is hit by this first bullet... Because later, when
Dawkins fires the three, there's a moment when we see how she gets a blow
towards the wall, after one of the last two bullets - that would fit just so
perfectly to the stomach hit! This way her stunned look in the beginning also
would only be due to Nick being a vampire. She's still not over it before she
falls unconscious, her last words showing again how much this shook her,
especially his lack of trust, when I would expect her in this situation to be
rather concerned about her wounds... It shook her so much and she was so shell
shocked, that she didn't even react when the bullets hit her.

> When Nick attacks him, the bad guy he fires three more times and we hear the
> bullets bouncing in the locker room.
> One of these richocetts is what hit Tracy in the head.

Cool observation!! Didn't notice this, but after another check - yes, the first
of the three definitely sounds bouncing!
The others not. So, that's the ricochet that hit her head! Finally, last mystery
solved <g> Thanks!

This shooting scene is rather complex, had quite some looks at it too <g> My
impressions go as follows...
* Nick is shot and ducks
* Right this moment we first see Tracy's shocked look (I just checked it again a
  couple of times, doesn't quite look like she's hit, might be, but wouldn't
  she look more like flinching then? It's a tad too slow, and she's got enough
  reason for that look even without the bullet) At this point she still thinks
  Nick were mortal, and the bullet might have hit him fatal
   (Shock #1: Ohmygawd - he shot Nick!!!)
*  Then we see Nick rising again, going after the killer, then turning to look
  at her...
*  On Tracy again, who only now, after seeing him rising, can realize that he's
  not mortal. Even bigger shock #2 (He....is a vampire!!!) Her eyes open a tad
  wider, her face falls completely, now she looks really shell shocked!
* Nick grabs Dawkins, who keeps shooting at him (and we hear the ricochet that
  probably hits Tracy's head - shock #3)
* Tracy again - we see how she gets a blow towards the wall... the stomach hit!
   (shock 4 - not that she would notice anymore in her already shell shocked
   state about Nick)
* Nick shatters Dawkins at the wall
* Tracy is sliding down, leaving the bloody smear (good to be seen before she's
  wheeled out, a bit on top from the head, a big spot and smear in the middle
  from the stomach, and another big spot at the bottom, when she was sitting)

Just my impressions. Pretty ambigious, the whole thing.

Cool twist: Earlier, when Tracy talked with Reese: "So, I was thinking of
writing it up as such and... maybe... knocking
off early for tonight? Captain, I... I feel something coming on..."
And she rubbed her stomach... Kinda foreshadowing, huh? Love this.

And I like her last words: "You could .... have trusted me."  Trust seems to be
a major theme in this ep... Tracy talks about it, and as her last words they
get a pretty weight. Then Nat trusts Nick, and Nick trusts her, and both trust
in their common future... (both surviving or together in heaven, I like either
way <g>)

CloudRider    Knightie forever
http://fknet.freehosting.net/   ( with the LK pages :)
And pretty happy with that server - whew! Very newbie-friendly, only the picture
links pop up on a page with banners :/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:35:11 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Mail Servers Are...

Kyer wrote:
>> Ha!  So's you admits it!!  I never said what the CEO of Mail Servers
wore! LaCroix *is* the fiend behind this!<<

Now, wait just a dang-garned minute:

>>Part of Lacroix Enterprises aren't they?  Dedicated to the goal of
screwing up the minds of mere mortals. <snip> I am also looking for the CEO
of mailservers so I can stake the Ancient so and so while he is sniggering
his crewcut head off.<<

Gee, I'm trying to think of another Ancient with a crewcut...or are you
trying one of those logic puzzles on me?  Aaargh!

Molly
Whose boyfriend is trapped in his room because some %$@# film crew has his
hallway blocked off...

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:24:36 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Does it bother anyone else?

I was watching Fox44 last night, the channel that airs most of WB’s shows
in my area. They were showing a promo for ‘Angel’ and my mouth fell open
when I heard the narration and saw the scenes. It was as if I was having
an FK Déjà vu all of a sudden. Angel sporting amber glowing eyes (which
they by the way never had on the show before), going after his best
friend: the round-faced levelheaded cop lady, the narrator talking about
him having overcome with ‘hunger’ and ‘guilt’, then a scene that looked as
if exactly cut out of Last Knight with him draining (or attempting to
drain) her. And still the narrator kept talking about whether or not he
can ‘control the hunger’. It was infuriating, I was fuming for the rest of
the night.
I don’t know about anyone else here, some of you might even be a fan of
that show but personally, I had been up in arms since the beginning with
their FK rip-offs. There is hardly an episode where they don’t pull one or
two of those out of their sleeves (or better say *our* sleeves) and feed
it to the audience as their own original ideas. At first I thought that
perhaps they stacked FK scripts in their offices and took a peek at them
every now and then while they wrote for their show. Now I’m beginning to
suspect that they might even check out our fanfic. It bothers me so much
to think about the fight we are putting in to get our show back while
there is someone else out there, riding on the glorious imagination of our
fandom, reaching the peak of prime time TV through their rip-offs and
making loads of money at the same time. I’m asking myself, what are the
chances that we get our show back as long as there is that *thing* sitting
up there projecting the same ideas in a glossier more Hollywood-like way?
Will the public even want to know about FK and Nick when there is the
Beverlyhills-residing Armani-wearing copycat Angel?


=====
Countess -- Devoted Knightie, Immortal Beloved, Dark Trinity, with UF and
Enforcement tendencies

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:14:25 -0600
From:    wirickml <n.debrabant@g.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

> Will the public even want to know about FK and Nick when there is the
> Beverlyhills-residing Armani-wearing copycat Angel?

Shoot, I don't think most of the public knows about FK.
It was on late knight, CBS, then Cable, USA and Scifi.
Not many really are or were aware of  "our" fine show.
Publicity is everything. They have a bigger budget.

M. L. Wirick
A diehard NN Packer
"I'm hungry I feed"

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:26:27 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

Unfortunately, James Parriott and Sony are the only ones who could sue Angel for
copyright violation if it has occurred, not the fans.

I don't get to watch Angel or Buffy, I've had computer classes on Tuesday nights
for over a year! Seems they always have classes I need on Tuesdays (LOL).

Emily

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:48:51 -0500
From:    Mickey <wench@a.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

At 08:24 AM 3/20/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I don't know about anyone else here, some of you might even be a fan of
>that show but personally, I had been up in arms since the beginning with
>their FK rip-offs.

I'm an FK fan, don't get me wrong, but it can be argued just as strenuously
that FK was a rip off of Dark Shadows, was Nat not the modern day Dr Julia
Hoffman? Was Nick not a descendant of that do-gooder, formerly evil
Barnabas Collins who had that beautiful vamp girlfriend, Angelique...or was
it Janette? <G>

See what I mean?? I think we can probably find the same tried and true
methods in many shows and genres.


Annmarie aka Mickey
wench@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:27:19 EST5EDT
From:    phase3@g.......
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
> I don't know about anyone else here, some of you might
> even be a fan of that show but personally, I had been up
> in arms since the beginning with their FK rip-offs.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, especially in the entertainment
industry.

At least this (Angel and other successful vamp shows) lets TPTB know there is a
viable market for vampire programming with a human touch.

I'd love to have more FK, but in the meantime, I'll take whatever I can get.

L8r

Don
Argent@e.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:26:42 -0500
From:    Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

I honestly don't think Angel is supposed to be a take-off of Nick Knight.  One
thing that separates them (and that has made this show incrediably intriguing)
is that Angel's biggest fight isn't against his vampiric nature, but against his
innate *human* nature.  More than once the point is made to Angel that not only
was he a monstrously cruel example of a vampire, he was also a pretty sorry
excuse for a human being.  So in striving for redemption, Angel isn't trying to
regain his humanity, but to become a better person than he ever was.  Nick, in
my perception, was a good man (who made some mistakes) with a good heart who
went down a very dark path in life -- that innate nobility of spirit still
shines through.  Angel is a person who has finally stopped to take a look at his
life, to regret what he has made of it, and to attempt to make it something
better.  Even after regaining his "soul" (the capacity to choose to do good), he
spent a lot of time just wallowing in his own misery and apathy, with occasional
forays into temptation.  It took a good kick in the butt, and the vision of
someone pure, courageous, and willing to do right (with a high cute quotient!
"g") to get him to look outside of himself.  Another difference -- the evil
vampire Angelus is a big, bullying thug next to the elegant, seductive Nicholas.
The similarities arise from the fact that they are both vampires trying to make
amends for the incredible harm they have done others -- this is going to lead to
some similar plot elements.

Now, as for the car...well, that I can't make any excuses for!! "g"

Portia

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:26:46 -0800
From:    Lisa McDavid <cecily1349@y.......>
Subject: Vampire shows and FK

Personally I haven't been able to get into Angel,
although I am a Buffy fan. However, I do think the
more TPTB get a chance to see that vampires still draw
an audience, the better. Even if we can't get a
revival or movies for FK, the popularity of Angel
just might persuade Sony that there is a market for
books and professional video releases.

So, the more the merrier from that viewpoint.

McLisa, who once described Buffy's Spike and Drusilla
back when they were the resident vampires to someone
who only knew FK as "LaCroix and Janette on acid." :)

mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:43:29 -0800
From:    Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

--- Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......> wrote:
> Unfortunately, James Parriott and Sony are the only
> ones who could sue Angel for copyright
> violation if it has occurred, not the fans.
>
> I don't get to watch Angel or Buffy, I've had
> computer classes on Tuesday nights for over a year!
> Seems they always have classes I need on Tuesdays
> (LOL).

Well, I do watch BTVS and Angel, and actually am on
the Club Jade (Star Wars) mailing list offshoot, Club
Spike, aka SpiKlub.  ("The first rule of SpiKlub.  You
do NOT talk about SpiKlub.")  Angel bears a
resemblance to Nick in that he's a guilty,
angst-ridden vampire (why I like Spike and
LaCroix--none of this guilt s***.)  However, he is
slightly less the moralist, as he's guilt-ridden
because he got his soul back through a curse-read,
negative.  He didn't want to be good and was forced
into it.  The philosophy of the vampires on the show
are fairly different--most, in fact, don't really seem
to function in society.  (Most of those Buffy kills
are lurking about graveyards, generally being
disgusting.)  Angel is falling prey to what I call the
X-Files tendency of getting lost in its own
mytharc...they're getting obesessed with the "end of
the world."

The ep in particular to which you're reffering was
Angel "waking up" from an episode of evil.  The
previews (as they always are for that show) are very
misleading.  He actually saved Kate (the cop), he
didn't attack her.  And his eyes weren't glowing;
that's a trick of the light.  BTVS vamps have
yellow-ish eyes when they vamp out, but they don't
glow, and their entire faces shift.  The whole
"glowing red eyes" schtick has been around since
Dracula in any case.

Sorry to sound defensive, but it's hardly a ripoff.
Parriot doesn't have anything to sue over.  (And plots
can't be copyrighted, in any case.  Or character
names.  Those can be trademarked but most aren't.  For
example: The names "Forever Knight," "Angel," and
"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are trademarks.  So far as
I know, the names "Nick Knight" and "Buffy Summers"
aren't.  Copyright isn't really what companies are
protecting re: fanfic--it's their trademarked
characters and titles.  Images, OTOH, are protected by
copyright, as are scripts.)

=====
"Vampirism--it does a body good!" Tom Servo, reviewing "The Wild World of Bat
Woman"

If Anita doesn't want to be Jean-Claude's human servant, can I volunteer?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:02:36 -0500
From:    Diane Harris <diharris@v.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

First off, before I even get into this debate, I would like to say that I
LOVE FK.  Just wanted to make that clear :)

> I honestly don't think Angel is supposed to be a take-off of Nick Knight.

Well, one of the biggest differences I've found (and I'll tell yah, I was
screaming COPYCAT!!!! the first time I heard about Angel and now I'm an avid
fan of it) is the entire mood of the show.  Angel is more...  tongue in
cheek humorous.  FK is dark, and serious.  Aside from the very basic
superficial similarities, it's really not the same at all, and I've found
that after watching quite a few episodes, I can easily separate them.  I
just recently started writing some Angel fanfiction, and one of the first
things my beta reader pointed out was that I was making my vampires too
'FK-like' :)

>It was as if I was having an FK Déjà vu all of a sudden.

One thing I think that might be causing this is because it was taken out of
context.  I'll explain.

>Angel sporting amber glowing eyes

That was not a result of his vampirism, but rather, the influence of a
mystical shroud that made him go just a bit loopy.  That's also where the
'hunger' issues came up from.  BtVS vampirism is very watered down, to the
point that the vampires seem almost human (unless one takes into account
their inherent evilness).  FK seems to separate vampires from people A LOT
more... almost like vampires are 'top of the food chain' hunters (well, duh,
they are... but anyway...).  FK vamps also have a wide array of morals --
they can be insidiously evil or they can be angelically good.  BtVS vamps
are just of the 'kill, kill, kill' variety, with the exception of Angel :)

And, in the case of Angel, it's a case of... bam, he's good.  Or, whoops!
He's bad.  Nick has a much more intricately defined morality, because HE was
responsible for all of his actions.  There's no demon inside him wearing his
face...  His fall into darkness was entirely his own disillusionment.  I
think that, not only does this make him a darker character in general, it
makes his warring sides (the Beast vs. the Man) multifaceted in a way
entirely different than that of Angel, who suffers moral dilemmas from time
to time, but is inherently good.  Angel's little slip-ups are pale in
comparison to Nick's, IMHO.

Another interesting difference is that Angel is not actively seeking a cure
for his condition.  In fact, when he did revert to human, he changed himself
back.  He is merely atoning.

> going after his best friend: the round-faced levelheaded cop lady

That was Kate.  She was one of his enemies at the time... very far from
friend, and certainly not a best bud.  From her bitchy behavior lately, I
would have been tempted to chomp on her myself...

> then a scene that looked as if exactly cut out of Last Knight with him draining

This wasn't Angel succumbing to the hunger as it was with Nick in LK.  This
was him trying to save Kate from the other demons that were present by
making them believe that he'd killed her (which he didn't, he stopped with
time to spare).  Again, a difference from FK.  Kate is Angel's enemy, and
yet his inherent goodness drove him to save her.  Somehow, I think Nick
would be more reluctant in that situation...  Just my opinion, again.

Previews tend to over-emphasize parts of the plot they think will entice you
to watch, which I think helped generate that whole 'OMG!  That's SUCH A
RIPOFF' feeling that I used to get before I got into it.  But anyway, enough
of my rambling :)

Oh yeah, and one more thing, did you guys know John Kapelos appeared on
Angel this season?  Hehehe.  Now THERE is food for the copycat argument :)

Diane Harris (diharris@v.......)
Proud NNPacker, Knight, FoDS, CoTK, and glutton for any and all feedback.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/diharris/Homepage.htm

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:04:38 -0800
From:    "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y.......>
Subject: New Story site URL

Hi Everyone:

Well, due to the fact that Tripod still hasn't
let me know one way or the other about my
account, I decided to shift my site(the Dubois
Chronicles) to a new address....

<drum roll, please> <grin...ok, yes, I am
enjoying this way too much....><chuckles>

http://dante6.fanspace.com/dubois/dubois.html .

Thanks!!!

David

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:49:38 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

--- phase3@g....... wrote:
> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, especially in the
> entertainment industry.
>
> At least this (Angel and other successful vamp shows) lets TPTB know
> there is a viable market for vampire programming with a human touch.
>
Oh! Never looked at it from that perspective. I guess it makes some sense
after all. Thanks! Now at least I won't cringe every time I see that show :)=

=====
Countess -- Devoted Knightie, Immortal Beloved, Dark Trinity, with UF and
Enforcement tendencies

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:53:04 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Does it bother anyone else?

Diane wrote:
>FK is dark, and serious.

Deliciously dark, IMO, but it does have its humorous moments.

>>FK vamps also have a wide array of morals -- they can be insidiously evil
or they can be angelically good.<<

What makes FK for me is the complexity of the characters--Nick can be quite
nasty even in his present state, and LaCroix has moments of 'goodness' (for
example, he could have simply disposed of Schanke rather than cleverly
talking him out of believing Nick was a vampire).  Janette is like so many
of us, loving someone unconditionally even when she feels they're mistaken
or on the wrong track.

I must admit I've only seen parts of Buffy eps and none at all of Angel.
This is entirely because of my own pickiness about vampire legend/literature
<g>, and not because the shows are inherently bad or not.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 19 Mar 2001 to 20 Mar 2001 (#2001-89)
**************************************************************


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