FORKNI-L
FORKNI-L Digest - 25 Jul 2000 to 26 Jul 2000 - Special issue (#2000-222)
Wed, 26 Jul 2000
There are 36 messages totalling 1131 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. What the heck? (2)
2. Crazy Love and Baby Baby (2)
3. YKWYWTMFKW (3)
4. Nat and Nick (17)
5. This must mean something?
6. Baby-Baby (4)
7. Re Nat and Nick
8. Attracted to vampires?
9. Nick and Nat
10. Natalie and Tracy (3)
11. Knight School - Ep106 - Dying to Know You
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:22:30 -0400
From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: What the heck?
Javiette@a....... wrote:
>
> What I think is the funniest is the quote in the middle of the page: "We
> have a soup for that"
So that's where the cure is. Nick and Nat should have been trying all
those different flavors....
-----
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:35:17 -0400
From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: Crazy Love and Baby Baby
Lorelei Sieja wrote:
>
> I love these two eps, as well! And in Crazy Love, when a troubled Nick
> tries to tell Nat that he understands the crazed killer, that he felt
> needs, and he looked so desperate, and Nat just cuts him off. She tells him
> that he doesn't have those needs any more, end of story.
Watch Nick's face when Nat says "You don't have those needs any more, do
you?" He flashes a smile and shakes his head "No," then his face falls
as she walks away.
-----
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:36:47 -0400
From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: YKWYWTMFKW
"Cindy L. Clark" wrote:
>
> The city of Euclid, OH, where I live has a street named Nicholas and one
> named Lambert.
Do they ever meet? <gr>
-----
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:44:50 -0000
From: Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: Re: What the heck?
Knightraven wrote:
> I wonder if Campbell tomato soup sales will now increase in high FK
> locales...<eg>
>
Perhaps not. But maybe it explains why Nick can eat what looks suspiciously
like Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup in the hospital in NIQ. LaCroix had
substituted *his* version for the regular hospital soup :-)
Barb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 20:51:23 +0000
From: Jeannie Ecklund <jecklund@l.......>
Subject: Re: Crazy Love and Baby Baby
Mary Combs wrote:
> Watch Nick's face when Nat says "You don't have those needs any more, do
> you?" He flashes a smile and shakes his head "No," then his face falls
> as she walks away.
I wonder what Nat was thinking, she got the hots for Nick the night
she met him and yet she wanted to change what he was. That above
scene really hurt him. Was that the same episode where she calls him
on the phone and talk so him like a 2 year old about eating food etc.
That makes me cringe!
Jeannie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:35:37 -0400
From: mclisa@m.......
Subject: Nat and Nick
>I wonder what Nat was thinking, she got the hots for Nick the night
she met him and yet she wanted to change what he was
But Nick _asked_her to help him change. That is made clear in Dark Knight --
"is this the man who came to me, begging for help so he could see the
sunrise?" The quotation is from memory, so it may not be word for word.
All of you who criticize Nat for somehow wanting to change Nick, I don't
understand. Have you all not seen Dark Knight, or the first season where
Nick's desire to become mortal again was a major theme? What about the
narration at the beginning of each episode? "Now he wants to be mortal
again."
We never saw Nick tell Nat that he had changed his mind, that he no longer
wanted to be a vampire. Until he did, Nat had both the obligation of a close
friend/lover and a doctor to keep trying. It's not the same as accepting
that someone has a personality flaw. It's more like being involved with a
substance abuser, especially one who has asked you for help. No matter how
much you love him or her, you are _not_ doing the right thing if you decide
to just accept him or her as an abuser. That's only going to lead to worse
trouble for him or her. If the abuser decides not to try to fight the
addiction, maybe you might decide to stop trying to help, but until he does,
you should not stop. Also, Nat is a doctor. She is treating what she
believes to be a medical condition. You don't show your concern for a
patient by not treating the disease, especially when the patient has asked
for your help. You only stop treatment, ethically, if the patient decides to
continue.
One other thing, that I don't understand. Why do those of you who think
Nat's behaving the wrong way assume she fell in love with or desires the
vampire? Am I the only one who thinks she was attracted to the man who was
fighting the beast? Not everyone considers vampirism a desirable state, you
know, me included.
Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble."
mclisa@m.......
Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:45:25 EDT
From: Ceily Trog <Fk4ever1228@a.......>
Subject: Re: This must mean something?
Tim wrote: <<Or maybe someone at CENTRAL (the topsecret commandbunker
from which all television is controlled) is a FK fan and is telling us
to have faith. That soon, we will be rewarded by the return of our
favorite night-time friends?>>
Hey, I was wondering about all the ravens too. I love your explanation!
The only thing missing was an FK ep with scenes from the Raven. <sigh!>
fk4ever
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:11:48 -0400
From: "R. Royal" <RhondaR@p.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
> Am I the only one who thinks she was attracted to the man who was
> fighting the beast?
Nope, and I'm glad you mentioned this (though I do think that Nat can be
"heavy-handed" when dealing with Nick - but then, that's what tough love
is all about). I've always believed that the man attracted her and the
vampire fascinated her (as a test subject).
Rhonda R.
(going back to lurkdom now)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:05:32 -0700
From: Liz the Lucky <luckyliz@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
Thanks McLisa. :-)
I've always partly felt sorry for Nat in the series. She's trying to treat a
patient, who not only isn't following her instructions, but isn't even
bothering to tell her some of the symptoms. If I tried that with my doctor,
I'd be dropped in a shot. (Well, actually, I'd be dead, but another matter
entirely.)
For I Have Sinned is the first time she finds out that crosses bother Nick.
Hello? Two years and that's the first she's heard of it? And from the look
in Nat's face in Francesca, that's the first time Nick's told her what
drinking blood is really like.
Also, she's dealing with a brand-new area of medicine. It's something that
she's not trained for, and there's no one she can go to for help. Even if
there was someone who wouldn't think she was nuts, there's too much of a
risk that somehow the information on what they were dealing with would leak
out.
Her biggest mistake was in falling for Nick, but, well, I'm not sure that
was really something in her control. I don't think Nick really loved Nat,
but I do think he made sure she was in love with him. He'd have been a fool
if he didn't, and Nick's no fool.
Hugs and Kisses,
Liz the Lucky FoD
luckyliz@m....... Merc
http://www.mindspring.com/~luckyliz Nothers
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:14:43 -0400
From: Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
Yay, McLisa! Yay, for Nat! I have to say that I've been a little
uncomfortable at not standing up for Nat before now. I just haven't known
what I wanted to say, so thank you for saying it for me. Well, actually, I
don't have a problem with some people not liking Nat and ascribing less
than noble motives to her -- I'm just not one of those people. I'm one of
those who truly believe that Nick *no longer wishes to be a vampire.* The
lifestyle he chose when he was young is a lifestyle he no longer wants to
live. I believe him -- and believe he meant it from his soul -- when he
told Janette in Father's Day (?) something along the lines of "I *can't*
live like this anymore!"
I am also one of those who wouldn't want to be a vampire. The vampire
lifestyle seems to be one of paramount selfishness and self-indulgence, of
uncontrolled appetites and barely restrained violence. Yes, this can be
"attractive," but ultimately, it seems a stunted "life." Yes, there is all
of eternity to "live", but a life imprisoned by the sun and enslaved to a
hunger that can drive you to do whatever it takes to fulfill it. From what
I understand, the series originally equated Nick's hunger for blood to a
drug or alcohol addiction, and then pulled back from that analogy in later
seasons. I think the analogy was too simplistic for Nick's complicated
situation, but I don't think he should be denigrated for claiming the right
to set and adopt standards for his life. Who among us wouldn't fight for
such a right, and wouldn't long for the strength of character (well over a
100 yrs worth of committment!) to fight against heart-breaking odds to
achieve our dearest goals and to become the people we dream we can be? And
I don't think Natalie should be denigrated for making a committment to
doing her best to help Nick in his quest.
Okay, so I just had a vision of Nick as Don Quixote and Nat as Sancho (with
the floppy broad brimmed hat *and* the donkey!), so I'll stop
proselytizing. "g"
Portia the Proselytizer "g"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:45:01 CDT
From: "Emily M.Hanson" <emily.m.hanson@u.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
No, you're not the only one. I've never seen any evidence in the series that
she was attracted to the vampire. She may have been fascinated on a
scientific basis, like Dana Scully from the X-Files encountering an alien for
the first time. I think Nat is definately in love with Nick. I also got the
impression that Nick was in love with her, but holding back the whole time
(obviously until Last Knight.)
Just MHO.
Emily
mclisa@m....... wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks she was attracted to the man who was fighting the
beast? Not everyone considers vampirism a desirable state, you know, me
included.
>
> Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble."
> mclisa@m.......
> Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l
Emily M. Hanson
http://www.starbase-eprime.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:42:04 +0000
From: jennii <jennii@c.......>
Subject: Baby-Baby
Hi all,
I was under the impression that
he bit Serena, before they made love.
Dot
Dark Knightie and UFfer
jennii@c.......
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:28:48 EDT
From: Enid Rodriguez <LadyEnid512@a.......>
Subject: Re: Baby-Baby
Hi gang:
Not to sound crude, but my idea always was that Nick bit into Serena
right when they "finished" together and she passed out. Then while she
slept he gave her his blood.
Of course, that is merely an idea....an it would explain why she
had NO idea she was a vampire when she awoke.
-Enid Rodriguez
LadyEnid512@a......., LadyEnid512@h.......
GWDFC/G5/Enforcer/Harem Wife/BGoBH/Kaydick Tech Cult/Wolfville2000
"Four beers, a little James Brown and you can't keep me off the tables."
"If you're gonna fish.......FISH!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:36:21 EDT
From: Dolpfin220@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
In a message dated 07/25/2000 7:39:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
mclisa@m....... writes:
> But Nick _asked_her to help him change. That is made clear in Dark Knight --
> "is this the man who came to me, begging for help so he could see the
> sunrise?" The quotation is from memory, so it may not be word for word.
The only thing was made clear to me by this statement is that *she* believes
he was begging for her help.... They never (that I recall) show him asking
for her help. In fact, during the flashback to "Only the Lonely", it didn't
appear to occur to him that she *could* help until she volunteered.... He was
still thinking of it as a metaphysical condition and stated that....
> All of you who criticize Nat for somehow wanting to change Nick, I don't
> understand. Have you all not seen Dark Knight, or the first season where
> Nick's desire to become mortal again was a major theme?
I have seen Dark Knight and the first season and do recognize that this was a
major theme, but as the series continued the focus and their relationship
appeared to change. I enjoy their relationship as portrayed in the early
part of the first season.... I see them as making better friends, than
lovers as they tried to make them during succeeding seasons.... Speaking for
myself, my criticism of Nat isn't that she wants to change him, but in the
way she goes about it.... She seems to want him to become mortal, but only
when her own interests don't require him to be a vampire, i.e., when she
wants him to bring her brother across and later when she thinks a meteor will
soon hit....
As always, opinions and perceptions vary.... I normally just lurk. I felt
like the post was saying that those who criticize Nat are wrong for doing so
and I don't know if this was what was intended or meant. But, it prompted me
to respond.... (Hope I didn't offend....)
Janet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:24:28 GMT
From: Lorelei Sieja <lorisieja@h.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
I have seen Dark Knight, and I see the similarities between Nat helping Nick
to give up the blood and a friend or family member trying to help a
substance abuser to kick a bad habit. This is made even more clear in
Feeding the Beast. But... then I always think of Only the Lonely...
Nat unzips a body bag, and caresses a "dead man's" cheek, and says "not
bad... not bad at all"... That always makes me think she's just a little...
strange? One too many late nights alone? And then, he sits up! I love
that ep, really. I think, at first, Nat was attracted to his looks - who
wouldn't be? I think that's what made me watch my first ep, before I knew
anything about the plot. But, when he came back to life, I believe she was
attracted to the vampire. She didn't know yet that he didn't want to be a
vampire. She didn't know how old he was, or how long he'd been searching.
She only knew that he was a really cute undead guy, and she was hooked.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:32:23 GMT
From: Lorelei Sieja <lorisieja@h.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
If Nat was not attracted to the vampire, then why did she beg Nick to bring
her across in A More Permanent Hell, and again, didn't she mention it in
"Last Knight"? Why did she force Nick to bring her brother Richard across?
Why did she use Nick's blood for the intellectually challenged boy in
whatever ep that was, fallen idols? Of course she was attracted by the
vampire. In a way, aren't all FK fans?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:09:12 -0400
From: mclisa@m.......
Subject: Re Nat and Nick
<As always, opinions and perceptions vary.... I normally just lurk. I felt
like the post was saying that those who criticize Nat are wrong for doing so
and I don't know if this was what was intended or meant. But, it prompted
me to respond.... (Hope I didn't offend....)
Janet
No, no offense, and I'm sorry it read that way. As listowner, I would never
knowingly say that it is wrong from anyone to criticize any character. I
just felt strongly, and still do, that Nat deserves as much defense -- which
she hasn't been getting lately -- as criticism.
Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble."
mclisa@m.......
Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:16:45 -0400
From: mclisa@m.......
Subject: Attracted to vampires?
>Of course she was attracted by the
vampire. In a way, aren't all FK fans?
Well, no. I can truthfully say I'm not. My original response to FK was based
on the first episode I saw, which was Only the Lonely. And I took that not
bad remark of Nat's to mean that the body wasn't in anything like the
condition she'd been told it would be. As for whether she's attracted to him
in the first morgue flashback, I feel that it's more like scientific
curiosity. The attraction appears to me to come in the later flashback, when
she remembers how he waylaid her on a street (you have to have seen the
Canadian versions to know this, since CBS cut and pasted it to look as
though there was only one scene in the morgue flashback) later. That's when
he says he's irredeemable and she tells him he isn't, that the condition is
physical.
As for LC -- yes, I'm a Cousin -- I find the character as played by Nigel
compelling and sexy, but I still feel that he's the villain.
My first encounter with a vampire character was in my college days , when
the original Dark Shadows was in first run. I was a Barnabas fan, and what
attracted me was his struggle against his vampirism. Later, when I saw tapes
of the first few weeks when he was an evil vampire, the character repelled
me. Similarly, I hate pictures of Nick and LC vamped out.
So, I can truthfully say that here is one fan who isn't attracted to
vampires as vampires.
Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble."
mclisa@m.......
Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:40:14 EDT
From: Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Baby-Baby
In a message dated 07/25/2000 8:49:20 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
LadyEnid512@a....... writes:
<< Not to sound crude, but my idea always was that Nick bit into Serena
right when they "finished" together and she passed out. Then while she
slept he gave her his blood. >>
He may have bitten her without any physical relations between them at all,
and she still could have woken up feeling like they'd had sex. From what I
could tell over the series, the vampires bite was supposed to give a great
deal of pleasure to the bitten as well as the biter. Remember that
renaissance era merchants daughter, she certainly seemed to enjoy it. So
Serena could have woken with all the physical sensasions of having had very
satisfying relations with Nick.
JMHO,
Laurie of the Isles
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:48:17 EDT
From: Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
In a message dated 07/25/2000 9:50:00 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
lorisieja@h....... writes:
<< I have seen Dark Knight, and I see the similarities between Nat helping
Nick to give up the blood and a friend or family member trying to help a
substance abuser to kick a bad habit. >>
The problem is, vampirism as portrayed in FK isn't just a bad habit, an
addiction or a lifestyle one can change by deciding to do so. We are shown
that one becomes a vampire by undergoing a physical metamorphosis brought on
by exchange of blood with a vampire, receiving vampiric blood. That blood
causes changes in the body: the body is changed to metabolize blood instead
of solid food, the blood itself, and hence the person's body become deathly
sensitive to sunlight. There seem to be metaphysical as well as phyiscal
aspects to it.
Laurie of the Isles
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:52:17 EDT
From: Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
In a message dated 07/25/2000 9:50:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
lorisieja@h....... writes:
<< Of course she was attracted by the
vampire. In a way, aren't all FK fans? >>
I *am* attracted by the vampire and I'd have to say, no, all FK fans are not
attracted by it. We've seen tonight and at other times that many people are
pulled by Nick's quest save himself, to redeem himself. I can fully
understand that it strikes a very stong cord with many people.
Laurie of the Isles
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 03:52:20 +0000
From: Jeannie Ecklund <jecklund@l.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
Sorry I stepped on people toes tonight I just had a bad day personally
and I am watching some episodes for the first time. As I said I love
Nick and Nat, but it seems like she often treated him like a child and
yet he did a lot behind her back. In my fan fic they marry, have kids
I've written 350 pages to keep them happy. But I was just a bit sad
by the reality of the shows I've seen, Your opinions are valid about
the addiction, he did ask for help and he did go behind her back a
lot.I know he loved her and was just too afraid she would end up like
Allisa (Alysa?)
Jeannie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 04:35:40 +0000
From: Jeannie Ecklund <jecklund@l.......>
Subject: Re: Baby-Baby
Watch the epidode Nick is remembering their night together, while she
is supposed to be with that other man just a few feet away from him.
In his mind he's seeing her and him together. I think it was a
flashback and he's not just biting her.
Jeannie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:32:49 -0700
From: Greer <wyldechilde_2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Nat
I am not a fan of Natalie exactly, I'd be one of the
FK fans who like the vampiric side of things and
especially LC, but I had far more respect for her in
the first season than in successive ones. Especially
after Black Buddha.
While unable to pinpoint the exact moment at which I
lost sympathy with her I believe that there was a
noticable change in the character.
At first I quite liked her. It was clear that
Nicholas, or at least I thought it was clear, wanted
to become human and that he had either asked or
eagerly accepted Natalie's help with that. At this
point Natalie was his doctor. Yes they were friends
too and there was some sexual tension but her main aim
was curing his disease.
At this point I understood her occasional impatience
with him and what I think someone else described as
her treating him like a child that wouldn't eat his
spinach :). She's a doctor who's treating him and he
is a difficult patient who repeatedly ignores her
medical advice and yet still expects her to help him.
Later in the show more is made of their romantic
relationship and Natalie's focus changes. She stops
telling Nick that he has to avoid vampiric activity
entirely if he wants to be healed and in fact starts
encouraging him to be vampiric. She also asks him to
change her, or others, into vampires on more that one
occasion.
She is a far *weaker* character at this point IMO
since she has pretty much abandoned all her earlier
principles.
Also, again in IMO only, she starts to become rather
ostrich like in her wilful decision to ignore some
aspects of vampirism.
Well scuze my ramble and back to the scheduled posting :)
=====
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:37:49 -0700
From: Greer <wyldechilde_2000@y.......>
Subject: Natalie and Tracy
This post is mainly to see if I can stir up a little
debate *grins* but it is something I noted on the show
a little.
Do you think Natalie disliked/was jealous of Tracy
once Tracy was partnered with Nicholas?
I think she was....though this could have been caused
by the fact I just rewatched my video of Last Night
which I don't think shows Natalie in good light AT
ALL.
=====
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:39:46 -0400
From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
Lorelei Sieja wrote:
> <snip> But, when he came back to life, I believe she was
> attracted to the vampire. She didn't know yet that he didn't want to be a
> vampire. She didn't know how old he was, or how long he'd been searching.
> She only knew that he was a really cute undead guy, and she was hooked.
She also knew that he'd deliberately taken a pipe-bomb to save lives.
And the audience knows that he did actually risk his life by doing that,
because if his head had been blown off, he would have truly died.
-----
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:45:41 -0400
From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie and Tracy
Greer wrote:
>
>
> Do you think Natalie disliked/was jealous of Tracy
> once Tracy was partnered with Nicholas?
No, actually, one of my favorite Nat/Tracy scenes is the one where Joe
makes Tracy help with the autopsy to get over her squeamishness. Nat is
sympathetic without treating Tracy like a little kid, and gives her a
beautiful summation of why the work is important.
-----
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:01:24 -0500
From: Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie and Tracy
> Do you think Natalie disliked/was jealous of Tracy
> once Tracy was partnered with Nicholas?
>
No. Nick didn't have any romantic inclinations toward Tracy. She
was his partner and he would protect her, but that was it. I think
Natalie knew/felt this from Black Buddha and some of the other
episodes. Besides, Natalie knew that Tracy had serious eyes for
Vachon. Tracy wasn't a threat to Natalie's relationship with Nick.
Tim
Tim Phillips
timp@d.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:09:44 -0500
From: Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
She (Natalie) seems to want him to become mortal, but only
> when her own interests don't require him to be a vampire, i.e., when she
> wants him to bring her brother across and later when she thinks a meteor will
> soon hit....
In Natalie's defense, I'd call both of these circumstances very
unusual and highly stressful. You put people under a high enough
degree of stress and they start doing very odd things that they
would never do normally. Normally, I think Natalie wanted to cure
Nick so he would permit them to be together and since she felt he
was a fundamentally decent man who needed her help to be well
again.
Tim
Tim Phillips
timp@d.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:12:50 -0500
From: Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: YKWYWTMFKW
They probably intersect, once, briefly, then move away on their own
courses, never to intersect again however much it is wanted :-(
tim
> >
> > The city of Euclid, OH, where I live has a street named Nicholas and one
> > named Lambert.
>
> Do they ever meet? <gr>
Tim Phillips
timp@d.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:12:21 -0400
From: "Cindy L. Clark" <ClarkCindy@e.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
Liz the Lucky wrote:
I don't think Nick really loved Nat,
but I do think he made sure she was in love with him.
So you believe the speech Nick made to LaCroix at the Azure in BMV?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:27:59 GMT
From: Lorelei Sieja <lorisieja@h.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
I didn't mean that all FK fans are Dark Knighties, loving their Nick as a
vampire. But, there are people that are so offended by vampires that they
would never watch a vampire show, or read a vampire book, and proclaim that
such things are evil and dangerous. Those of us who watch FK obviously are
not of that ilk. Some FK fans love Nick's quest, his vulnerability, his
need to be something better. Some wish he'd quite moaning all the time and
have fun.
<<I *am* attracted by the vampire and I'd have to say, no, all FK fans are
not attracted by it. We've seen tonight and at other times that many people
are pulled by Nick's quest save himself, to redeem himself. >>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:35:47 EDT
From: Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
Please don't get me wrong as I really do like Nat, but what irritated me about
her was when she'd tell Nick not to consume blood. To me, that is like telling a
person not to eat, period.
As for the relationship, I think it went from "oh, look, a vampire and
scientific subject" to "friendship" to "close friendship" to "love." Like in any
relationship, some of theses ebbed and flowed through time, so that she might
backtrack from love to friendship before returning to love.
Of course we all know that Nat's TRUE love was Screed! heheheh
Seriously, I'm not so much worried as whether or not Nat was good for Nick, but
if Nick was good for Nat. My personal opinion is that Nick has emotional issues
OTHER than his vampirism. Like many people, male or female, he often acts first
and thinks about the consequences later (which is what got him into the vampire
mess in the first place). Nat sometimes does this, though overall I think she's
a more analytical person who tries to think things through from many angles. Not
always, as sometimes hasty decisions must be made, but when she can. Nick, I
think, is more prone to act first (though he does think things out SOME times).
This is nothing against either character, in fact the faults are one reason I
love this show. It makes the characters more real.
As for Screed, well, he doesn't CARE what the consequences are<wRPg>, 'e jest
duz the due-tea then roides h'along wot ta put 'is peepers h'on wot
'appen-chances next.
--Libs
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:43:00 -0400
From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick
Tim Phillips wrote:
> In Natalie's defense, I'd call both of these circumstances [Richard
> and the meteor] very unusual and highly stressful. You put people
> under a high enough degree of stress and they start doing very odd
> things that they would never do normally.
I agree completely. Unfortunately, the cuts (actually mutilation is a
better word) of the scene between Nick and Nat in the loft where she
begs him to bring Richard across take the edge off of her desperation
(among other things, we don't see her anguished cry, "God made a
mistake!!"). The same cuts weaken the impact of her acknowledgment at
the end of the episode that Nick was right when he (gently) told her to
"leave it in God's hands." And in the meteor episode, I've always seen
Natalie as being driven to distraction by the sheer exhaustion of
working *alone* without any rest for days.
> Normally, I think Natalie wanted to cure
> Nick so he would permit them to be together and since she felt he
> was a fundamentally decent man who needed her help to be well
> again.
Amen.
-----
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:52:57 -0400
From: "Cindy L. Clark" <ClarkCindy@e.......>
Subject: Re: YKWYWTMFKW
> The city of Euclid, OH, where I live has a street named Nicholas and one
> named Lambert.
Do they ever meet? <gr>
Only through numerous twists and turns and countless 4-way stops. <gr>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:09:15 +0900
From: Raven Breena <raven@n.......>
Subject: Knight School - Ep106 - Dying to Know You
Forever Knight, Nick Knight, and the episodes described aren't mine, they
belong to Sony/Tri-Star and no copyright infringement is intended. Thus,
anyone can archive them, but I would appreciate a link back at my FK site
(http://www.naturesong.com/raven) and credit for writing the summary.
All Knight School Episode summaries are my own interpretatations and are
archived at http://www.naturesong.com/raven/episodes.htm
Special thanks to Billie-Lee for making this all possible (my tapes and FKC
idea), and McLisa for going along with it. Additions and corrections
welcome.
-Cousin Raven (raven@n.......)
Knight School
Episode: 106 Dying to Know You
Two women gets out of a limo and Jennifer (the older woman) tells her driver
she'll be back in ten minutes. The driver says they'll be back in an hour.
A man approaches him and knocks on the car window. He asks if he's Mr.
Hedge's driver and when he says yes, the new man sticks a syringe in his
neck and says, "You're fired."
The women return with bags of clothes and tells the driver to go to
Alphonso's next for shoes. He drives off.
Somewhere else, Denise has finished exercising and is now bathing in a
bubble bath.
The women in the car are getting edgy since the driver is not going where
she told him to go. Jennifer discovers it's not her driver and begins to
panic.
The woman in the bubble bath starts to panic, too and calls Stonetree. The
car drives into some kind of dimly lit warhouse, and Denise (a psychic)
tells Stonetree that she knows there's been a kidnapping.
The warehouse has now become a crime scene; Schanke and Nick are examining
the crime scene. Schanke is irritated at having been called in.
The psychic (Denise) shows up and begins to give details that she's picked
up from the area. Nick and Schanke don't feel too happy about having a
psychic working with them, but she takes charge.
Schanke begins to tell Nick about his woes with psychics and we see the
psychic has planted herself in the driver's seat of the car. She absorbs
the vibrations and tells them what she feels and sees. As Nick approaches
her, the words she says start to melt into images of Nick's life.
Later she tells Nick that the driver is still here and points Nick and
Schanke in a certain direction. Nick scans the area and locates the body.
At the coroner's lab, the psychic is trying to sense vibes off the driver's
body, but again is blocked by Nick's presence. Her images are all jumbled
up and Nick begins to realize that he's the one screwing her up. After a
few images, she freaks and runs out of the lab. Nick and Nat just look at
each other in confusion.
In Stonetree' s office, he's getting lots of flak from higher up, and he
asks Schanke what he's got on the case. Schanke makes a joke about the
psychic, and then mentions that they've found nothing so far on Mr. Hedge.
The mentioned man arrives with a randsom note and starts to plead with them
to help get his family back alive. He's not too pleased with the psychic
stuff either. Stonetree expresses his confidence in Nick and Denise.
In a flashback, Nick is in a barn when some other guy (Mathew?) runs into
the barn and barricades himself in. He expresses fear in that he thinks he
saw Nick outside just then, a dark winged demon. Nick smiles and shrugs it
off.
Back in the present, Nick has gone to Denise's house and she apologizes for
running off. She has a headache from psychic overload, but says she's up to
it either way. She asks Nick if he believes in past lives and he says no.
In response she says, "You should."
They leave and go to Mr. Hedge's house and have a conversation about the
size of the house. Mr. Hedge says he has only $50,000, and that's all he
could come up with on short notice. Denise walks around and senses a recent
argument. She walks upstairs and Nick's vibes begin to mess her up again.
She separates herself from him and senses more of the argument. Again,
Nick's presence intrudes and messes her psychic feelers up. Finally, she
freaks from Nick's images again, and he catches her before she runs out the
door.
She finally tells Nick that she's seeing him "with blood on his face". The
phone rings and Schanke tells Nick that they found Jennifer (Mr. Hedge's
wife, btw) with her throat cut. She's dead.
Back at the coroner's lab, Denise is trying to get vibes from the body, but
Nick's presence again intrudes.
Flashback: Mathew from the barn is praying, wondering if he is sane since he
thinks he saw Nick fly. Nick watches from behind, listening to the prayer.
Mr. Hedge has released a video pleading with the kidnappers. The detectives
watch impassively, and then dismiss it. Schanke and Nick discuss the case
and Nick mentions that it might not be a kidnapping.
The press is out front and tries to get comments from Schanke. He relents
for the camera and mentions psychic detective. The press homes in on that,
and Schanke realizes that he shouldn't have said that. He orders them to
deep six the tape and the comments and walks away.
Denise goes to Stonetree' s office and tells him she doesn't want to work on
the case anymore, that the images are just too much for her.
Nick is driving and flashes back to the barn again. His friend Mathew
arrives with a lantern and confronts him. He still feels he's not sane and
he questions Nick. Nick tries to hypnotize him, but it doesn't work. He
wants answers, and Nick says, "I'm just one of God's creatures."
At the loft, Nick has just told Nat about the situation and says he never
told him the truth. He discusses the fact that he's intruding on Denise and
Nat gives him a pale protein shake and orders him to drink it. She
encourages him to tell Denise the truth.
The phone rings and Stonetree tells Nick that Denise doesn't want to work
the case anymore, and that Mr. Hedges is missing. Nick decides to take the
fast way out, opens the window and flies out, despite Nat's protests and
refusal to drink her protein shake.
At Denise's house, Nick flashes back to the barn again. He comes into the
barn and his friend has hanged himself. The pain flashes in Nick's eyes in
the present and he goes to Denise's house. She is fearful and he says he
wants to explain. She says she thinks she's losing her mind; she saw a
monster with Nick's face.
He vamps out in front of her, and she yells. She's shocked when she
realizes he's a vampire. He reassures her, that he's not going to hurt her.
She questions him about his habits and his age and he tells her. She's
excited and relieved she wasn't going crazy. He tells her Hedges has
disappeared and she demands to go. She asks him if he can fly and he nods.
She asks him to take her with him sometime and he responds with "I'll think
about it."
At Hedge's house, Schanke is waiting for Nick who arrives with Denise.
Denise mentions that Schanke's wife went out tonight and he says she was
bowling. She counters with "Yeah, bowling, that's right." Causing Schanke
to freak and call Myra. He asks her who won and what score she got.
Apparently, he doesn't like the answer and tears appear in his eyes.
Apparently, he thinks she's doing something wrong, and she calls him a name
and hangs up on him.
Back in the house, Denise is hearing the argument again, now that her mind
is clear. Denise calls to Nick and says she sensed the wife and daughter
knew some secret, but she doesn't know what it is.
Nick and Denise take off, leaving Schanke to wait at the house. They go to
the coroner's lab and Denise tries to get vibes from Jennifer's body. It is
unsuccessful, but Nat mentions some items found under her nails, including
powdered milk. They put it together that it might be from Hedge's
charitable warehouse. She wants to go with Nick, but he goes alone.
Nick shows up at the warehouse, Mr. Hedges arrives and they tell him that
Janice (daughter) is alive, and he complains that she's not dead yet.
Apparently, she knew the father was was stealing from his 'charitable
organization' and he wants her dead. He paid the money for them to kill
both women. They take the money and leave the father to kill the daughter
himself.
The father opens the trunk of a car and his daughter is bound and gagged,
but alive. Denise shows up and yells at Mr. Hedges. The two guys who were
on the way out get knocked down and out by 'superman' Nick. Mr. Hedges
grabs Denise and holds her at gunpoint. Nick tries to get him to let her
go, but he shoots her. Nick vamps out and throws the bad guy accross the
room. He removes Janice's gag and gathers Denise in his arms.
He flies her to a hospital but doesn't make it in time. She thanks him for
letting her fly with him and dies.
Back at the loft, Nick feels guilty for Denise's death. Nat tries to
relieve his guilt, but to no avail.
Questions:
1. What *was* Myra really doing if she wasn't bowling?
2. Do you think Schanke believes in psychics now?
3. I know we've discussed the theory that Stonetree knows about Nick, or at
least knows *something's up, but do you think Stonetree knew why Denise was
flaking and that's why he told Nick?
4. Do you think Denise would have figured out the images in her head or
thought herself insane if Nick hadn't told her?
5. If Denise hadn't gotten shot, do you think Nick would have continued to
visit her?
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 25 Jul 2000 to 26 Jul 2000 - Special issue (#2000-222)
*******************************************************************************
Parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
