There are 13 messages totalling 428 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Esoteric History Questions 2. Number of Names for Petitons (2) 3. FWD: For Lauren 4. I did a MAJOR update please look I worked hard on it :0 (2) 5. Father's Day flasback questions (2) 6. Various and Sundry 7. FORKNI-L Digest - 27 May 2000 to 28 May 2000 (#2000-155) 8. Admin: Forkni-l rules 9. LCA and Gosh, it sure is quiet in here... 10. 13th century roses ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:48:33 -0400 From: Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......> Subject: Re: Esoteric History Questions Storm Born wrote: > > All right, all you medieval history buffs out > there<g>: was the 'Mary cult' prominent in the time > of Nick's mortality, or is he too early? The increased devotion to Mary as the Blessed Virgin and a loving mother came in the 12th century, long before Nick's birth, so it would be absolutely correct to have Nick call upon her. He would have grown up seeing images of the Madonna and Child. He would know the Ave Maria -- 'Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.' (The second part -- "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" dates from the 16th century.) As a small child he was probably told some farfetched (and very charming) legends about Mary and about Jesus' childhood. He would have been familiar with the practice of counting prayers on beads, but he wouldn't have known the Rosary as it is shaped and practiced today as a devotion to Mary. > would he be inclined to gasp, 1) "Mary, Mother of > God!", 2) "Sweet Mary!", 3) "Sweet Jesus!" 4) > something else entirely. "Mother of God," is right on the mark. But "Sweet Mary" as a startled exclamation sounds a bit off to me, more the sort of thing for a heartfelt petition than an ejaculation. The Salve Regina" (another enduring prayer) ended in Nick's time with "O sweet Mary." I'd have similar doubts about "Sweet Jesus" as being ahead of its time, at least for a knight. Christ as Lord and King was still the compelling image -- I skimmed through some primary source stuff from the time and the guys seem to be invoking things like "The Sword of God".... You'd also be safe with just plain "Jesu!" "Blessed Mary," "Lady Mary," "Sancta Maria," "Blessed Virgin," "Mother of Christ" are other possibilities for Mary. I'm totally clueless about the roses -- can't wait to see the answers! ----- Mary mcombs@e....... N&Npacker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:59:37 +1200 From: Knightraven <knightraven@c.......> Subject: Re: Number of Names for Petitons > As of now the petitions have 943 signatures! They're SO close to 1,000 > names! You can help make them hit 1,000! Hey wow this is great guys! I am *sure* there are a few more of you who can send Kirstin a quick email to join the petition!!<G> Kylie. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:01:48 +0000 From: Kristin <kris1228@s.......> Subject: FWD: For Lauren I did a LARGE update with Games, Quizes, and etc........ I would like you to tell me what you think I worked hard on it for hours :) You can sign my Dream Book or email me :) Have LOTS of fun! P.S. Go to my What's New page for my other stuff I added. <g> Lauren http://members.xoom.com/vampirekiss3/nick_jan_page/webpage/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 15:43:58 GMT From: Lauren Harris <lauren1228@m.......> Subject: I did a MAJOR update please look I worked hard on it :0 I did a LARGE update with Games, Quizes, and etc........ I would like you to tell me what you think I worked hard on it for hours :) You can sign my Dream Book or email me :) Have LOTS of fun! P.S. Go to my What's New page for my other stuff I added. <g> Lauren http://members.xoom.com/vampirekiss3/nick_jan_page/webpage/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:27:21 -0500 From: Lauren <lauren1228@m.......> Subject: Re: I did a MAJOR update please look I worked hard on it :0 sorry I was having trouble sending messages :( so kristin my sister sent one out for me. and now it just worked :) Have fun with my update! Lauren :) -----Original Message----- From: Forever Knight TV show [mailto:FORKNI-L@l.......]On Behalf Of Lauren Harris Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 10:44 AM To: FORKNI-L@l....... Subject: I did a MAJOR update please look I worked hard on it :0 I did a LARGE update with Games, Quizes, and etc........ I would like you to tell me what you think I worked hard on it for hours :) You can sign my Dream Book or email me :) Have LOTS of fun! P.S. Go to my What's New page for my other stuff I added. <g> Lauren http://members.xoom.com/vampirekiss3/nick_jan_page/webpage/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:41:23 EDT From: Laudon1965@a....... Subject: Father's Day flasback questions In the superb FK timeline at Dorothy Elggren's site, it states that given Janette's coiffure and dress, and that they were in Paris to start with, it could have been as early as 1921. That gives me someplace to start, but brings up a few more questions for me: 1. How long would a trans-Atlantic crossing of time take? 2. Was Don Constantine actually in Toronto at the time? Did Canada Canada also have a Prohibition period that would have given rise to the explosion of Mafia activity centered around bootlegging? If not, was Constantine perhaps in New York at the time, and only went to Canada later, perhaps fleeing as it got too "hot" for him in the States? (It certainly would have been easier on Nick if the trunk he was travelling in arrived on the ocean liner in New York and was picked up by Constantine right there, rather than Nick having to endure the overland trip to Lake Ontario, and a second ship across the lake to Toronto.) 3. Do we know that Nick went directly from Ontario/New York to Los Angeles? 4. Do we know how long Nick was on his own before LaCroix caught up with him? He certainly seems to have been there long enough to feel "settled in" and to have made some acquaintances (his friendly greeting of the couple he passes on the stairs of the hotel in L.A.) Input/thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Laurie of the Isles "I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said 'I drank what?' " - Real Genius ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:05:02 -0700 From: Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> Subject: Various and Sundry Mary, thank you! Somehow I knew you'd be the one to come through for me. :) I quite like "Jesu!"... Kristen, your site took an enormous time to load, but it looks good. (Could be because I was downloading video clips from your sister's site at the same time!) Laudon1965@a....... wrote: >>Did Canada Canada also have a Prohibition period that would have given rise to the explosion of Mafia activity centered around bootlegging?<< If they did, it didn't coincide with ours. Smuggling booze into the US from Canada was a major activity during US Prohibition. Smugglers in the East would run alcohol across the St. Lawrence to the New York side, where locals would do 'runs' to distribute the alcohol throughout the East Coast (my father ran one of the Pennsylvania legs). Who else is going to LCA3? I'd like to meet as many FK fans as possible while I'm there. ===== Molly/StormBorn FKPagan/Cousin/Seducer/Ravenette/DT/Who's Army Legionnaire LaCroix: Punk Enough the_stormborn@y....... Voicemail:1-888-Excite2, ext. 0786762676 (0stormborn) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:07:47 -0400 From: "Amanda R. Cleveland" <arclevel@m.......> Subject: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 27 May 2000 to 28 May 2000 (#2000-155) >was the 'Mary cult' prominent in the time >of Nick's mortality, or is he too early? That is, >would he be inclined to gasp, 1) "Mary, Mother of >God!", 2) "Sweet Mary!", 3) "Sweet Jesus!" 4) >something else entirely. I'm by no means an expert, but I know that common mild oaths that show up in Shakespeare are 'swounds and 'sblood, which are shortened forms of "by God's (or Christ's) wounds/blood." That's considerably later, but it would stand to reason that the full versions would have been used earlier. Of course, they were also English, but similar versions were probably in use on the continent. Amanda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:57:55 -0700 From: Anne Jensen <ajensen@w.......> Subject: Re: Number of Names for Petitons >If you have not already please send me your "name/state/country" and I will >add you to the petitons for more FK. I'm not quite sure if I already sent you this, but, on the off chance that I haven't (and that it isn't too late), it's Anne Jensen California (USA) Thanks! (Especially for all the hard work you do to bring back the Knight!) Anne Jensen ajensen@w....... Perk, DP, NNP, T+Vpack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:25:28 -0400 From: mclisa@m....... Subject: Re: Father's Day flasback questions >1. How long would a trans-Atlantic crossing of time take? A week or less, depending on the ship and the weather. I think the record was three days, but that about five was more normal. >2. Was Don Constantine actually in Toronto at the time? Did Canada Canada >also have a Prohibition period that would have given rise to the explosion of >Mafia activity centered around bootlegging? If not, was Constantine perhaps No, Prohibition was a US aberration only. Canada was the source of much of the booze that was smuggled into the US by the Mafia. They didn't have a Mafia problem. Remember, the sale of liquor was legal there. >3. Do we know that Nick went directly from Ontario/New York to Los Angeles? No. >4. Do we know how long Nick was on his own before LaCroix caught up with him? No. Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble." mclisa@m....... Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:29:33 -0400 From: mclisa@m....... Subject: Admin: Forkni-l rules For those of us in the US for whom it is Memorial Day, have a happy and safe holiday! For information on managing your subscription and on listserv commands, please see Don Fasig's page http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm 1. No flames on list. FLAMERS MAY BE SET NOPOST. THE NOPOST MAY BE PERMANENT. 2. Please don't quote more than four lines of a previous post in replying. If you have more than one point to answer, then you may quote the relevant four lines for that point also. 3. Limit sigs to 6 lines. This includes all information, decoration quotations and blank lines. Your name and address count as part of the six. If you sign your name on a separate line above the body of text, your name and the blank line or lines between count as part of the six line limit. If you have one of those services that insists on putting an advertising tag on the end of posts, don't worry. I realize you can't control that and it doesn't count as part of your sig. 4. Please don't send to the whole list when you are only talking to the person who wrote the post you are answering. 5. Advertising on list is on a case by case basis. Please consult the listowners, Lisa McDavid, mclisa@m....... or Don Fasig, phase3@g....... for permission. 6. This list is for the discussion of Forever Knight. Cast, crew, staff and producers in connection with what they're doing now or have done in the past are ok. Vampires in general are _NOT_ ok except in relation to Forever Knight. 7. Off-topic posts are not allowed, no matter what they are about or how urgent the warning may appear. If you have an off-topic post which you think should appear on the list, ask one of the owners for permission. 8. The private lives of the cast are not a discussion topic. Occasionally one of the fan club presidents will make an announcement, but other than that, we leave the cast their privacy. 9. Con announcements must come from con officials or a designated liaison and must be kept brief. Cons are only announced on list if there is a connection to FK. 10. Only fan club presidents or other designated spokespeople may make announcements of future projects for FK cast, crew and staff, before said projects have been released or written about in the media. 11. No role-playing on Forkni-l. This includes no character names as pseudonyms or posing as a character. 12. Each subscriber is limited to five posts per day on Forkni-l. I'll be happy to explain the reason for any of the above if asked. Thanks! Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble." mclisa@m....... Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:46:24 -0500 From: Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......> Subject: Re: LCA and Gosh, it sure is quiet in here... OK, here is my interpretation. Nick and LaCroix walk into SunnyDale High and the first person they see is a student, who says to them, "What are you doing here, old timers?" To which Nick responds, "We are looking for a blonde. About this tall. Athletic. Always carries a stake? My Father wishes to discuss the deaths of several mutual friends with her." Tim Tim Phillips timp@d....... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:51:12 -0400 From: mclisa@m....... Subject: 13th century roses 13th c. roses were what are now usually called "old roses." They have fewer petals and open out almost flat, with the stamens clearly visible in the middle. The North American wild rose is this type. The modern kind, such as was shown in Be My Valentine, is a complete anachronism. My guess is that nobody checked, or that they figured nobody would know the difference. The Tudor rose was of course not a real rose at the time, although one was later bred. It represents an heraldic device, the combination of the Red Rose of Lancaster (Henry VII, the first Tudor) and the White Rose of York (his queen, Elizabeth of York). The heraldic representation shows the kind of rose that existed in the 13th c. and continued to be what a rose looked like in 1485, the year Henry VII became king. McLisa, finding this a lot more fun than taking out the cat litter and paying bills :) Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble." mclisa@m....... Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l ------------------------------ End of FORKNI-L Digest - 28 May 2000 to 29 May 2000 (#2000-156) ***************************************************************
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