FORKNI-L
Logfile LOG9606D Part 6
June 22, 1996
File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606D" Part 6
TOPICS:
BM and "Hunters" AND Re: GWD on Outer Limits
SPOILER: LK, AtA, Fran -- Good & Evil (long) (2)
Nick and Nat (3)
Feeding the Beast Spoilers, Nick and Sex
Which season for N&N packers?
Official Good Bye :(
LIST: Reposting Policy & PSA
FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Jun 1996
Fwd: Undelivered mail (fwd)
The Fix/Nick & Nat
downloading pictures
Nick and Nat (Spoilers: Human Factor) (2)
The NEW, NEW Question! Tia talkin'
125+ SURVEYs in! SEND MORE, NOW!
KaKa Harddrives, "The Facts of Unlife" & odd mumblings
YKYBWTMFK
LIST STUFF: Help When Needed
WAR: Diviants?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:57:26 -2055
From: "L. Katherine Queen" <lqueen@p.......>
Subject: Re: BM and "Hunters" AND Re: GWD on Outer Limits
HI GANG, JOHN KARTAAN WRITES:
>Either that or his posture was terrible!!! So, there are your choices,
>'stout' or 'slouch'....
Um, having recently seen GWD, in person, wearing a tank top and shorts I
would say neither. Nope, nope, nope!!! Still laughing about the cherry
boxer shorts...hee, hee...
Katherine, devoted to the Knight
lqueen@p.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 13:07:26 -0700
From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, AtA, Fran -- Good & Evil (long)
On Sat, 22 Jun 1996, TippiNB wrote:
> The words "murder" and "okay" don't appear anywhere in my above statement.
> Such words are not value neutral and the only one in which one can have a
> meaningful debate is to remain *value neutral*. Anything else is, by
> literary standards, rhetoric, which accomplishes little and inflames much.
Actually, I take serious exception to this. As a trained literary
scholar, I may at times claim to take a neutral stance based on the
evidence before me, but "value neutral" is a bullshit term. *NOTHING* is
value neutral. That's one of the fundamental problems with post-modern
theory -- the assumption that such a term or field exists. (As an aside,
one of the leaders in the field, Stanley Fish, states pretty regularly,
that it's only for the sake of argument that he bothers ... and that even
he agrees that when he steps out on the sidewalk it does not crumble under
his feet, deconstruction notwithstanding.)
> There are (were) religions in which human sacrifice was mutually consentual.
> Both religion and practioner agreed to it, whether explicitly by
> verbalization or implicitly by the continuing implementation of said
> religious practices.
That's like saying if you were a slave who didn't fight back or run away,
you were agreeing that slavery was okay. Coercion is coercion, no matter
what the social structure. Those virgin maidens could no more consent to
being killed and/or eaten than you would willingly consent to being a
slave.
> parallel wider sociological themes. Very few answers are just handed to us,
> which leaves it up to interesting conversations such as this one. ;) Just
> imagine if we all saw it the same way, how boring that would be.
To bring this back to FK, I'm not so sure *some* answers aren't handed to
us: murder is wrong is the premise of the show. Nick isn't a vice cop,
he's homicide cop. While it can be argued that as a vampire who needs
blood to live, there are circumstances under which killing becomes
justifiable, to argue that it's anything other than a human wrong is
silly.
Even LC says "who needs to kill" in Dark Knight.
Raven Cynthia
choff@v.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:23:15 -0400
From: Ann Lipton <Iocaste@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Nat
Gayle wrote:
First: Nick is/was a KNIGHT! Think of coming of age in the age of
superior courtliness. The courtly ideal, and the model of courtship,
is a chaste one.
Sorry, I can't actually get the damn computer to quote using AOL, so I must
merely copy and paste ...
Anyhoo, this is the coolest idea I've seen, Gayle. That never occured to me.
And someone (I don't know who) recently wrote that Natalie as a love interest
was really a 3rd season phenomenon in the absence of Janette, with BMV as an
aberration -- three words: Only the Lonely, where Nat starts seeing another
guy and Nick goes batty.
I don't even really consider myself a Nick&Natpacker, but there's no question
"true love" is written into the episodes, from early on.
What I like about their relationship is that it's the first of its kind for
Nick -- as far as we see, it's his first romantic liaison not based on his
power over the woman, not based on his evil sucking up his purity. Except
for Janette, which was based on her power over him and her evil sucking up
his (relative) purity.
Ann
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 15:36:57 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, AtA, Fran -- Good & Evil (long)
I said:
>> parallel wider sociological themes. Very few answers are just handed to us,
>> which leaves it up to interesting conversations such as this one. ;) Just
>> imagine if we all saw it the same way, how boring that would be.
Cynthia wrote:
>To bring this back to FK, I'm not so sure *some* answers aren't handed to
>us:
I said in my above statement that "very few answers are just handed to us".
I didn't say "no answers".
****Wicked Cousin Tippi****
HEY! Want FK stuff? Sony needs to know that you want it! Contact
Anne at TV_ShowStuff@p....... and TELL her NOW! :)
"Poetry can be so deceiving." - LC in Baby, Baby
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:57:26 -0400
From: "Kathryn A. Kraus" <kak6@p.......>
Subject: Re: Feeding the Beast Spoilers, Nick and Sex
Gayle wrote:
>Back again to the knightly courtship...
>A Lady supplies the chaste love, the dream, the cure, the courage to
>endure.
>Sex is simply something easily had with the slut du jour.
And Tippi responded:
>He has sex with Janette a bunch -- and he still married HER! ;)
Ah, but didn't Nick feel he was "in love" with Janette while they
were married? He admitted as much to Lacroix after she left
him in the POTM flashback. This would fit into Nick's version
of courtly love.
If the timing works (and I'm not sure it does, so historians help
me out! This is the way I remember hearing it),
the idea of AMOR, or romantic, heart-felt love as we
understand it today, was started in the 12th century. So there,
maybe, is Nick.
Janette is 11th century, when you've only got EROS, or sexual
excitement on a physical level (felt about 1foot below the heart <g>),
and AGAPE, or brotherly love. She would predate the romantic notions.
Actually, this could explain a lot about the N/J relationship.
The marriage doesn't last because she feels smothered, but
the physical side of the relationship is, uh, less of a problem.
(Nick's Amor doesn't seem to completely block his Eros.
He and Janette Eros all over each other. :-) He's just turned
his Amor to Nat.)
Not that I don't believe that Janette could pick up on the
new ideas, though - she's seems to keep herself pretty modern.
Anyway, here's a YKYB.. for Tippi & the Unnameds.
I was reading about the Hindu Upanishads the other
day - the story of the god Indra & his palace carpenter - and I
spotted this line:
"My god, we are both immortal, and there is no end to
his desires. I am caught for eternity."
I had to laugh!
kak6@p.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:17:35 EDT
From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@v.......>
Subject: Which season for N&N packers?
With all due respect for Laurie CF, I have been an N&N Packer since
before the faction was formed (yes, this is subsidiary to my Cousinship).
I have also been an FK fan since the first season.
Having said that, I should also say that my take on Nick's motivations
is also slightly different. I don't think he knows what he wants. :)
I really missed Janette in the last season. The show worked so much
better with its triangle and the tension.
With all due respect to Nick Gray and while admitting that he was
giving Laurie his view, let's remember that JP, who created the character
of Natalie and her relationship to Nick, said flat out at an AOL chat
that "Nat is the love of Nick's life."
In case some of you are wondering about Barney Cohen, incidentally, he
created the concept and at least some of the characters, but that was
before Rick's Nick. It's my understanding that thereafter he has not
been actively involved in the show. If I'm mistaken, someone please
correct me.
Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Chief Watcher for Cats, McGregor
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:28:49 -0400
From: Hugo Trepanier <pio@m.......>
Subject: Official Good Bye :(
(Note: slight Last Knight spoiler)
Hi everyone!
There's probably a lot of you that won't even remember my name... That's
because I haven't written anything in a LONG time. I have been on digest
for exactly two months today, and I haven't read anything from the list
since then. It is too much mail for me to handle. It's hard to keep up with
school, work, and the little life that I maintain everyday since 18 years.
So, I kept it all, in case a miracle would happen and time suddenly stopped
for me to read the digests, but something tells me this is unlikely to
happen. I still love Forever Knight, although I have been a bit
disappointed by the last episode. The characters will always be alive in my
heart. And I will share the memories of the show, and this list, for the
rest of my life. My best friend Fred (Mr.Happy!) keeps me updated on what
happens from time to time, so I still have a connection. I want to thank
everyone on this list for the wonderful time I had with you. Especially
Wicked Cousin Tippi, Gabi, Katya, Terasa & Tammy, Nancy (thanks again!), and
everyone else I could have forgotten. I will still be reachable through my
personnal e-mail addy <pio@m.......> if anyone wants to talk to me! :)
A tout le monde
A tous mes amis
Je vous aime
Je dois partir...
- Megadeth (A Tout Le Monde)
I have lied. When people asked if we'd stick together even after the very
last episode, I said I would. But I can't. My first memories of this list
is the debate concerning Susan's hair! At that time, I was wondering if
this was the right list. And it was. That was cool. I enjoyed reading the
many fanfic pieces that made their way through my mail box, and I liked to
be updated on the events concerning FK. Without Nancy, I would have never
seen the last 9 (!) episodes, because my station dropped it. This is all
because of this list (seeing the eps I mean), and I am very thankful for
that. Now, this is official, I have to go. If you want to reply to me,
please use my personnal address, as I will also send the unsubscribe
messages right after this one. This is not easy...
*** 242 unread digests for a total of 7608K ! ***
I wish everyone well in everything you ever do. Life is great. Long Live
The Knight. Bye bye.
Forever yours,
Hugo Trepanier, pio@m.......
http://www.mtl.net/solidarite/pio/aic.htm -> Alice In Chains Nutshell
http://www.mtl.net/solidarite/pio/forever.htm -> The Little Knight
__________________________________________
"I try to get away and yet I stick around"
- Alice In Chains (Brush Away)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:25:53 GMT
From: "Jamie M.R." <immajer@n.......>
Subject: LIST: Reposting Policy & PSA
The normal policy of the lists is that there is to be NO REPOSTING of
stories on FKFIC-L.
However, since a significant proportion of people (including me) didn't get
any listmail on the 19th...
If you posted a story on the 19th, and it never showed up on the list, you
MAY REPOST it.
This is not a reversal of the "no reposts" rule, merely a temporary
suspension for the convenience of all.
And a Public Service Announcement:
Go and back up all your computer files. Right now. Right this minute.
That way, if YOU suddenly have a catastrophic hard-drive disaster, YOU will
not have to watch several hundred megabytes of Stuff go bye-bye.
Words to live by, believe you me...
Jamie, Asst. Listowner
who lost everything, EVERYTHING, including her sig
and is very glad that she finished the SOSFK web page upload
BEFORE the hard drive contracted amnesia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:12:12 +0200
From: katrinka <STUKENDALCA@m.......>
Subject: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Jun 1996
okay people, i had to put my own two cents in with this cult of courtly
love talk. Nick Knight came from a time when it was seen as one of the
solders privilage to NO CARRIER RING CONNECT 12000/ARQ
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:18:17 +0200
From: katrinka <STUKENDALCA@m.......>
Subject: Fwd: Undelivered mail (fwd)
i admit ahead of time, this looks strange, i'm sorry, my server is
doing very strange things today. that's why I'm changing servers
soem time nextweek. here's my message. and i want to apoligize
because my server sent some other message while i was just starting.
Subject:
COURTLY LOVE AND STUFF
HELLO EVERYONE
this is catherine kendall (aka katrinka) I'm not writing from my usual
server, because it has a glitch in in. so i hope this is okay. in about a
week i'm getting an entirely new server.
i've read several posts that have said that nick was a knight, and hey they
had principles.
Just remember something.
at the time Nick was a Knight, crusaders killed for christ. putting entire
arab villages to the sword, and saying that god could sort them out. they
also raped and pillaged.
yes, there was a cult of courtly love, but that was reserved for those at
court. not the people on a crusades.
did nick marry janette.
no, i don't think he did.
i think him, lacroix and janette had a triad for centures.
plus janette was a prositute, and a good knight didn;t marry one.
there's also been questions on weather nick and jannette did in on the night
he crossed over. because after all, he is wearing a shirt.
but at the time, the body was considered obsence, and even taking off your
clothes for sex was considered a sin.
yes, i think nick has more then paid for his past sins. what ever they might
have been, human or vampire.
i also think vampires have their own set of morals. and like humans they pick
and choose what they believe.
i still think that nick did it with nat when he had amesia,
and i think he usually didn't touch her for one reason.
he loved her.
you might think that is strange for me to say.
but perhaps nick was terrified that he would kill nat, so therefore kept he
safe.
the trouble with the lost messages.
i had several messages dissaper, not just to this list, but to another list
that i belong to that is on psuvm.
i think the mouse that works the listservers wheels quit when he found out
there was going to be another war, and that they had a hard time hiring
another one!
katrinka
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:24:30 -0400
From: Jane Credland <janes@i.......>
Subject: Re: The Fix/Nick & Nat
At 01:32 PM 6/22/96 -0400, Mei Wa Kwong wrote explaining why she believed
Nick didn't kiss Nat on the lips after he was cured if they were lovers:
>said that they weren't lovers yet. What I meant was that while they, in
>my opinion, were in love, they had not consummated their love in any way,
>be it physically or telling each other that they were in love. Hence, my
>reasons for saying they were not lovers. Hope this clears it up!
Not for me it doesn't. We've seen over and over again, in episode after
episode, that Nick doesn't have too many reservations about intimacy with
women (vampires and mortals) even after a very short acquaintance. The list
includes both those he loved and those he simply lusted after. Just to give
a few examples, there's Alyce (DK1+2), Gwyneth (QoH), Serena (Baby, Baby),
Emily (StF), Marion (BW), Alyssa (DoN), Eve (SoB), unnamed mortal (FtB),
Erika (LA), Serena the stripper (DBtLM), and let us not forget Janette in
far too many episodes to list.
The excuse made over and over for why Nick does not have a romantic
relationship with Nat is that he cares too much for her to take chances that
the vampire within him will cause her death. When Nick kissed Nat on the
cheek in The Fix, he believed he was cured -- permanently. If Nick is
mortal, intimacy will not lead to Nat's death. So, that excuse no longer
exists. IMNSHO, if he was in love with Nat, he would have taken this
opportunity to kiss her on the lips and let her know how he feels. He did
not because he does not love her romantically.
Jane (janes@i.......)
Raven ** Immortal Beloved ** M.B.D.T.K
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams
[W.B. Yeats}
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:27:50 -0700
From: Rick Bleyle <papaya@i.......>
Subject: downloading pictures
Hey everyone!
I'm in need of some advice on how to download pictures? If anyone
nows how and can/will help me then please contact me at
papaya@i.......
Thanking you in advance,
Kelley Bleyle
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:48:03 -0400
From: Jane Credland <janes@i.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Nat (Spoilers: Human Factor)
Warning: there is a small Human Factor spoiler towards the end of this post.
Gayle wrote:
>First: Nick is/was a KNIGHT! Think of coming of age in the age of
>superior courtliness. The courtly ideal, and the model of courtship,
>is a chaste one.
I find it impossible to believe that almost eight centuries of experience
would have absolutely no impact on Nick's belief structure.
I am no longer the person I was when I was a child. Three decades of
experience have changed my attitudes towards almost everything. Can you
honestly claim that your beliefs are exactly the same as they were when you
were young? No. Because life and experience have altered you.
Nick has seen and participated in some horrendous atrocities and murders
over those centuries. If he ever had any, his illusions of courtly love
would have been shattered by the time he reached the twentieth century.
At 04:23 PM 6/22/96 -0400, Ann Lipton wrote:
>for Janette, which was based on her power over him and her evil sucking up
>his (relative) purity.
Can you please give me one example of Janette being evil? I don't want a
general statement that she's a vampire, vampires are evil, and therefore
Janette must be evil. That is false logic. I want one single example,
drawn from an episode, that shows that Janette is uncategorically,
undeniably evil.
The Janette I know and love is the one who, among many other things:
- was once an abused, noble born prostitute (who still took the time to care
for and try to protect one of her fellow prostitutes) and, in the present
day, sheltered prostitutes and vampires at the Raven (FWTD);
- called Natalie and Schanke to rescue Nick from himself, when Nick
re-vamped himself (FtB);
- risked her life to prove that her lover was innocent so that his son would
not grow up believing that his father was a criminal (HF);
- tried to protect Natalie from the vampires when Natalie lost control (AMPH);
- agreed to let Schanke stay in the Raven for protection (even though it
endangered the vampires who slept there) and took the time to keep him
company (Hunters).
Where is the evil?
Jane (janes@i.......)
Raven ** Immortal Beloved ** M.B.D.T.K
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams
[W.B. Yeats}
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:02:49 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: The NEW, NEW Question! Tia talkin'
>WHAT IF PEOPLE FOUND OUT ABOUT VAMPIRES? WHAT WOULD THE HUMAN RACE DO?
> I MEAN EVERYBODY! THE JUNKIE ON THE STREET, THE MILLIONARE IN HIS
>MANSION, MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE, ETC.
>IF THERE WAS NO DOUBT THAT THEY EXISTED, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?
I believe there would be a war between vampires and humans. I think humans
would attempt to wipe out all vampires (even vampires like Nick), and
vampires would attempt to defend themselves by killing as many humans as
they could. Since the vampires can't go out in the daylight, they would be
at a disadvantage, and would probably lose. Humans would also treat each
other badly, insisting that every human wear a cross, to "prove" he's not a
vampire. Police would go to people's homes and demand they come out into
the daylight to prove they're not vampires, and if the people didn't come
out into the daylight, the houses, and the people in them, would be destroyed.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
Cousin of the Knight
Save FK - http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:18:53 PDT
From: "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject: 125+ SURVEYs in! SEND MORE, NOW!
Just a brief (for me, anyway) status note:
125+ survey responses for both the FK Viewer's Poll and FK Merchandise
Survey! Keep them coming! The deadline to be included in the "Early
Returns Analysis" (which I am relaying to Anne Marion at SHOWstuff) is
June 26! Can we get 200+ responses by then? It's all up to YOU!
WHERE TO GET SURVEYS?
--SOS-FK wepage. See Listmommie Jamie's cute, sexy click & type
response page! (Thx! Jamie!!!)
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR
--MrHappy's webpage for printable copies for snailmail & handing out to
everyone you know! (Thx! Frederic, too!)
http://mtl.net/solidarite/mrhappy/fk.htm
--me, I'll send them to you (lplummer@i.......)
AFTER JUNE 26?
Keep them coming anyway, especially via snailmail from non-Internet fans.
June 26 is only my internal deadline to give me a few days to input,
compile, and prepare the "Early Results Analysis" for publication to
the list, etc. on July 1. I will continue gathering responses
THROUGH 1996, to publish an even larger response for Jan 1 timeframe
(to coincide with SciFi airing seasons one & two). For that publication,
my goal is 1000+ responses (or much more)
THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE SENT THEM, so far!
Remember to also send Anne Marion at SHOWstuff an email TODAY
(I mean, today!!!)
TV_ShowStuff@p.......
Tell her (& SONY) what merchandise you hope they'll officially license,
so that you can buy it and support Forever Knight (to convince them to
give us a movie (or movieS), etc of our fav show). Please tell Anne
a little about yourself (age, occupation, city, etc;) so that SONY can
finally find out who we ARE! They claim they can't find us out here
(through normal polling channels). They obviously haven't been looking
hard enough. NUMBERS count now, like they've never counted before.
SONY doubts we're here & has challenged Anne to prove it. Here's how
you can arm her with the facts!
Let's help SONY on with (better) "KNIGHT-vision" glasses!!!!
* -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- *
| Leslie (lplummer@i.......) ***FOREVER MEANS...FOREVER!!!*** |
* N&NPacker: "In Love and Faith There is Forever" Knightie, too! *
| Sent in FK surveys? Not too late! GoTo SOS-FK or MrHappy Webpages!|
* -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- *
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:24:56 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Nat
Ann Lipton writes:
>And someone (I don't know who) recently wrote that Natalie as a love
>interest as really a 3rd season phenomenon in the absence of Janette,
>with BMV as an aberration -- three words: Only the Lonely, where Nat
>starts seeing another guy and Nick goes batty.
Just because you are wildly possessive of someone you regard as your
personal "property" does not mean you are in love with them. And
remember the conversation therein: Nick admits to feeling
protective of her - in a BROTHERLY way. Nat is just as clearly
frustrated - she wants more - but that's what Nick says, and that's
even what she expected him to say. And remember, he can't even bring
himself to tell her he loves her in her birthday card.
>I don't even really consider myself a Nick&Natpacker, but there's no
>question "true love" is written into the episodes, from early on.
And it's perfectly obvious that you and I are watching a different
show. There's a lot of that with FK. :-)
>as far as we see, it's his first romantic liaison not based on his
>power over the woman, not based on his evil sucking up his purity.
>Except for Janette, which was based on her power over him and her
>evil sucking up his (relative) purity.
<BOOOIIIINNNNG> That was my jaw hitting the ground. ???????
As I said, we're obviously watching different programs. I'm not even
going to touch this one.
Laurie, trying to be good, which doesn't come easily to her,
being a Cousin :-) And looking forward to War, where she
doesn't have to be :-)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:28:38 -0300
From: "l.d. steele" <aa300@f.......>
Subject: KaKa Harddrives, "The Facts of Unlife" & odd mumblings
The great good vs. evil debate is back on I see. <eg>
For those who weren't on the spoiler list -- this is the sort of debate
that occurred semi-frequently over there. Using all the latest spoiler
protected examples of course. :)
-------------------
Let's have a moment of silence for Jamie (WebGoddess, Assistent
List-Owner, etc.) who has apparently had a fatal falling out with her
hard drive. The relationship is so bad that it is refusing to talk with her.
( . . . )
Our hearts are with you.
Speaking as one to whom this <has> happened in the recent past, I second
her advice. Go home and backup RIGHT NOW! These things never happen when
you have a lot of time to fix them.
-----------------------
Now on to the <main> reason for this post...
Ummm... Ahhh...
Anybody remember a story I posted way back in March '96 called "The Fact
of Unlife"? A short 3-part Urs and Tracy vignette with no real plotline, <g>
I've lost it.
If anyone bothers to keep this stuff, I'd really appreciate a copy. :)
In fact! ---------------------------------------- (check out new .sig!)
|
-----
---
-
@@ Dawn @@ Need a Merc? Look no further! I may be new to the Merc
@@ L.D. Steele @@ faction, but I'm a War 2,3,4 & 5 veteran. (Prices vary
@@ h36a@u....... @@ according to job.) Specializations: quick writing, and
<><><><><><><><><>< {creative} problem solutions. Contact me for details!
.... I'd be <awfully> appreciative of getting a copy of the story back...
And yes. This <is> my official declaration of a changed affiliation. <EG>
The DieHards will no doubt thrive w/o me, and I've decided to experience
slightly more <variety> in the next war. Heh heh heh
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:36:27 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: YKYBWTMFK
when you read today's comics section and in "speed bump"
the caption reads: "Nigel's plan to overthrow the monarchy
turned out to be less sinister than his comrades thought..."
and you start thinking,
sure, when he could make the guy immortal
and
what happened to his buzz cut??
-madhat
<cli7@s.......>
Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live
Not where I love, but where I am, I die.
-r.southwell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 18:19:05 -0700
From: Dann Lunsford <dann@g.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Nat (Spoilers: Human Factor)
In <199606222349.QAA05669@n.......>, on 06/22/96 at 07:48 PM,
Jane Credland <janes@i.......> said:
>I find it impossible to believe that almost eight centuries of experience
>would have absolutely no impact on Nick's belief structure.
I don't have a problem with this at all; I have a theory about Nick, and, in
fact, *all* immortals, that would explain it.
>I am no longer the person I was when I was a child. Three decades of
>experience have changed my attitudes towards almost everything. Can you
>honestly claim that your beliefs are exactly the same as they were when
>you were young? No. Because life and experience have altered you.
This is the crux of it: *NICK* *IS* *THE* *SAME*! He's an IMMORTAL! A vampire
that regenerates, when injured, to the state he was in when brought across.
That state *must* include nerve tissue, and has; we've seen it. It would also
include the scarring we call "memory". Immortality *must* result in learning
disabilities of large magnitude.
Nick and other immortals can learn, but it must take an incredible effort over
a long time, and would take continual reinforcement. Which is probably the
function of flashbacks.
Another thing: As I've grown older, I've noticed changes taking place in my
thought patterns. I have observed these same pattern changes taking place in a
lot of people as they age (No senility jokes, please!). Nick, an immortal
frozen in time, will never (unless he is freed from the curse) fit in with any
age group, except the one that approximates his apparent age.
Nick is not a "stupid brick"; he has a disease that causes learning disabilty.
(Can't wait to see what this generates! :-) )
--
***********************************************************************
* Dann Lunsford * The only thing necessary for the triunph of evil *
* dann@g....... * is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero *
***********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:19:24 -0700
From: [Name removed by request]
Subject: Re: LIST STUFF: Help When Needed
> Don Fasig, List Janitor
i'm sorry but i have a problem with this. No offense to janitors, who are
so valuable to society, but Donnie is not a janitor. Nor is he:
> More like Hercules charged with cleaning the Augean stables
(his words. Well, actually Donnie as Hercules ain't a bad comparision).
But i must insist, however much trouble may be stirred, however annoying
i may become, that our Donnie does not run after us, picking up trash,
sweeping up messes. He is, rather, List Gardener, Full of Grace (any
list owner/maintainer is divine, no exception. They have to be, to keep
this thing running properly. Only Gods can keep those hamsters alive),
Tender of forkni-l and fkfic-l, weeding out the harmful, bothersome
accounts, working magic upon the sickly ones.
Let's bat some sense into The Divine List Shepherd and Horticulturist.
<bat, bat>
:)
[Name removed by request]
All I have is what I might have been - Gavin Friday
How can you trust someone who bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die? -BGW
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:24:26 -0400
From: Mei Wa Kwong <kwongm@g.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Nat
Wow! This is obviously a controversial matter here. Okay, I think it
was Jane Credland (sorry Jane if I'm wrong) who responded to my post
where I was responding to another.....oh, never mind, anyway, Nick not
kissing Nat after he was cured my response was because they weren't
lovers (as in both saying to each other I love you) and the response to
that was No, because he doesn't love her, nothing holding him back now
because he was cured and the courtly love thing doesn't count because
he's changed over the years. Well, how about fear of rejection?
Remember, in "Only the Lonely" towards the end, where NICK is about to
kiss Nat, really kiss her, lips and all mind you, when SHE turns her
head. Perhaps he was afraid of such a response once again and to face
such a rejection knowing he has been cured may be more than he could bear
at that moment. Afterall, he wouldn't have the old vampire excuse to
fall back on if he should discover her feelings were not the same as his
(i.e., No, no, Nicky, we can't do anything further because you might turn
me into din-din).
In response to another post regarding Nick's feelings as merely
possessiveness in "Only the Lonely", sorry, need to disagree with that
one. Oh, I do think he is a possessive sort, but I think there is a
little more there than mere claiming of territory. (the relief we see
in his face and the kisses he gives her when she's safe).
It is amazing how people see different things in episodes, isn't it?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:35:23 -0700
From: [Name removed by request]
Subject: WAR: Diviants?
Leaders? Plotters? Schemers?
Will you let other factions members in?
Contact privately. At least one to let. Thank you.
[Name removed by request]
All I have is what I might have been - Gavin Friday
How can you trust someone who bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die? -BGW
=========================================================================
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
