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Logfile LOG9606C Part 11

June 17, 1996

File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606C" Part 11

	TOPICS:
	GWD on Outer Limits  (5)
	Anne Rice Vibes
	Ger's Outer Limits
	Killing; blood volume
	Killing, sipping, blood volume  (7)
	AtA spoiler question
	A Question about Natalie
	SPOILER: Francesca, AtA, LK
	stories
	FK Mini Con at T Trek
	Killing - sipping - blood volume
	WAR:  Natalie affiliations of all types
	SPOILER: LK & Blackwing
	FRANCESCA SPOILER: Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume
	USA network website
	Blackwing: Did they?

=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:10:16 -0400
From:         dotti rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject:      Re: GWD on Outer Limits

At 12:54 AM 6/17/96 -0400, Mary  wrote:

>I've read the complaints about Ger in pajamas, but considering he seemed to
>be a bit on the stout side I think it was a good move.
>
Excuse me?  Ger...."STOUT"?????

Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
Defender of the Knight
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:17:24 -0400
From:         Linda Simon <lsimon@h.......>
Subject:      Anne Rice Vibes

A real happening: Person(s) unknown marked  my car with a word that looked
like a gang-tagging. After a while I was able to decipher it: Lastat [sic].
(The night-scrawler must have seen the movie without reading the book.) No
other car in sight was similarly marked. It would have been eerier had the
word been "LaCroix", but ironic enough that it was a vamp name on no car but
mine. ObFK: didja notice in AtA that the door of the Raven was marked with
the name "fluid lounge", the real name of the club used for Raven exterior
shots? Has that ever appeared before? I thought it a nice tip of the hat.
Linda Simon
NatPacker, subliminal Cousin
"I like not the smell of this authority!" John Proctor, The Crucible by
Arthur Miller
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:36:30 -0600
From:         Dorothy Elggren <delggren@e.......>
Subject:      Ger's Outer Limits

Ok, I admit it, I'm SHOWTIME deprived.  So here I am reading all
this wonderful stuff and feeling this terrible gnawing feeling.
I want to see it.

Would anybody consider making a copy for me.  I know it is supposed
to run again tomorrow night.  As always, I will pay for tape, postage,
etc.

OBFK:  I have received a lot of information regarding the flashback
timeline and hope to have a latest and greatest version out soon.  In
the process I've been rewatching Crazy Love and I find the discussion
about lust and possession absolutely fascinating after seeing Last
Knight.

Groveling,

Dorothy
delggren@e.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:36:22 -0500
From:         "J.S.Levin/Stormsinger" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Killing; blood volume

Margaret Carter comments:

>OOPS.  My husband says the human body contains 6 pints of blood, not 6
>quarts.  If true, it's a bit less absurd, but still too much to "drain"
>all at once in a single brief session -- the equivalent of one and a half
>large milk cartons.

I don't think so, Margaret.  Let's look at it this way:  8 pints in a
gallon, right?  So this is 2 pints less than a gallon.  Now, during Desert
Storm, the water rations for the troops was *six gallons per day*.  And they
needed every bit of it.  That's *just* drinking water.

Realize that that is only the amount of water in a commercial water cooler
bottle, plus a bit.  I can assure you it's no problem for an active person
in a hot environment (like a warehouse, or a desert) to go through one of
those in a day.  Done it.

Now for a vampire, who lives on nothing but blood, to be able to put down
three quarters of a gallon in one shot?  No problem, I'd think.

Storm (Vaquera, Scrapper, Gangrel)
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned.
If you practice being fictional, you discover that
"characters" are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:36:55 -0500
From:         Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject:      Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume

Margaret Carter writes:
>Whether the human body contains on average 6 quarts of blood or 6
>pints, it's still too much to "drain"...in a single brief feeding
>session.

I believe Meg Martin posted a while back that there is 5-6 quarts of
blood in an average person (I hope that's right; if not, I'm sure
someone will speak up).

But let's say it's six quarts (oops, exuse me while I scream!  My
hubby just brought me a copy of the FK CD!!!!!!!!!!!  YAAAAYYYYY!!!!).
There's four quarts in a gallon so that's a gallon and a half of
liquid.  I don't think that's so much to drain myself.

>he would look like a bloated tick.

Well, now, we have to remember that vampires are on liquid diets.
For all we know, they have accelerated digestion so that the blood
passes quickly from the stomach into other parts of the body.

>Most scenes of fatal vampire attacks on FK seem to occur in the
>space of a couple of minutes.

Minutes?  A lot of the time it's *seconds*.

From start to finish of the actual bite, that is.

>And the extraction of that pint (of donated blood) takes about 10
>minutes!

Through a small needle.  Let's not forget vampires aren't with the
Red Cross.  They're *vampires*.  Who knows what super draining
abilities they have? :)

>The only way for the victim to lose enough blood in a brief time
>to die instantly would be for a major artery to be severed.

Er...I thought what they go for is normally the carotid artery.

>That would cause the blood to spurt out too violently for the
>vampire to swallow most of it.

But vampires are no longer human.  In becoming vampires, they may
acquire the ability to drain blood at a faster than normal (for a
human) rate.  But even so, they still do "dribble" some out at
times.

So, imo, FK vampires are capable of draining people as we've been
shown (I mean, we've been *shown* it, so it's got to be considered
"canon").  Sometimes they may not drain *all* the blood out of a
victim (but any good blood loss could cause the death of the victim),
but we have had heard stated by Nat that it's possible.  We've also
seen vampire attacks be over in mere seconds.  Given these "facts",
is it possible to view things otherwise.

Nick was shown "sipping" in a couple of episodes (Crazy Love, Black
Buddha) so it *is*, I suppose, possible for a vampire not to kill a
victim.  But until second season, it seemed pretty clear that our
vamps normally *killed* victims instead of "sipped" them.  And,
personally, I prefer that they *not* be sipping vampires as it adds
lots more danger, tension, and drama.

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:37:42 -0500
From:         Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject:      Re: AtA spoiler question

At 01:36 PM 6/17/96 E, Debra Ann Fiorini wrote:

>1
>
>2
>
>3
>
>4
>
>5
>
>6
>
>7
>
>8
>
>9
>
>10
>

>In AtA, Nick stakes Divia and she seems to be dying pretty quickly.
>(in the flashback in NinQ, when LC is staked he is dying *very*
>slowly, how come Divia who is so much stronger goes so much faster?

Maybe it has something to do with drinking human blood.  In NinQ, I think
LC drank the soldier's blood after the soldier staked him, because LC said,
"I dispatched him to Hell."  Maybe the human blood kept LC going for a
while.

>Anyway, I was under the assumption that although staking
>kills a vampire, they resurrect as soon as the stake is removed.
>Isn't that old vamp lore?

Maybe, but FK often doesn't always follow old vamp lore.  It gives them a
lot of flexibility to do the stories they want to do.  For instance, I don't
think they could have done "Fever" if they were going strictly by vamp lore.

>Also, why would LC have enough bandages handy to wrap Divia as
>a mummy prior to burning?

Maybe they cut up some old sheets?  Naah, your packrat suggestion was a lot
more fun!

Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
Cousin of the Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:55:38 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject:      Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume

> From:    "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
> So the oft-repeated FK scene of "grab victim -- vamp out -- chomp --
> drop corpse,"<snip> is completely impractical. Any rebuttals?

Always.  :-)

Shall we begin with the question of whether to treat FK as science-fiction
or fantasy?  I tend to prefer to treat it as fantasy, as this gives me
much more latitude for the spiritual and moral resonance of FK, imho.  In
fantasy, the nature of the vampire is metaphysical, as are his powers.
The link between a master and a fledgling is mystical, not
scientifically-explicable latent telepathy, or whatever we're using as an
explanation just now.  In other words, the ability to completely drain
the victim in mere seconds makes perfect sense when the transfer is
considered as other than merely physical.

However, most of us usually prefer to treat FK as science-fiction, and I
do believe that the last time this came up, it was on the heels of a
discussion of fang structure (and many, many "suction" jokes <g>).  One
theory was that the fangs are hollow, thus cutting down on that messy
"splashing" Margaret referred to.  That was initially set aside for
weakening the fangs, but then someone described the diagonal cut that is
used in medical needles.  Another theory, grappling with the apparently
"retractable" nature of fangs, declared that the fangs are in fact
telekinetic projections, and that the rapid blood transfer is aided by
the same mechanism that allows flight.

In other words, there are scientific rationalizations.

I feel this is important because, like Sandra, I feel that the "feeding =
killing" equation is a powerful part of FK.  If "sipping" were possible
in other than "*extraordinary*" circumstances, it would severely weaken
Nick's whole approach to his existence.

I know that Nick's pov seems, at best, childish, to many of you.  And that
may well be because of the introduction of ideas like "sipping."  Without
the ability to "sip,"  the choice is one between accepting vampirism and
being a murderer, and rejecting it and saving his soul.  With "sipping,"
the Cousins and the Dark Knighties begin to sound like the rational
ones.  And they're not.... :-)

*** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (akr@n.......) ***
"Remember that the faith you've lost is always there to regain... but
that green sock will never be found." -- St. Joan, the LK gag script
    (Keeper of the Light Cousin FAQ: email me for a copy.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:59:52 -0700
From:         Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject:      Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume

"Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......> wrote:
>I was rejoicing to have flashed on the rational reason why I have always
>disliked the device of "vampires who can't feed without killing"
>Whether the human body contains on average 6 quarts of blood or 6 pints, it's
>still too much to "drain"

Oh boy, my new favorite topic! <vbg>

Okay, first of all a human body (weighing about 160 lbs) at sea level
contains approximately 5 quarts (or 4.7 liters) of blood.  People living at
high altitudes may have as much as two extra quarts of blood due to lower
oxygen levels in the air!

The quick loss of 1 quart (4 cups or .95 liters) is enough to cause someone
to lose consciousness.  The loss of much more than this will certainly cause
death if a real quick transfusion of blood is not given.


>Which brings us to the time factor:  Most scenes of fatal vampire attacks on
>FK seem to occur in the space of a couple of minutes.  The vampire may not
>"drain" the victim, but he takes "too much," and she dies more or less
>instantly.

Whether it is a major vein (like the internal jugular) or a major artery
(like the carotid) which is punctured, enough blood will be lost in a few
minutes for unconsciousness and then death to certainly occur.


> The pint or so taken by the blood bank
>doesn't even leave most people feeling woozy.  And the extraction of that
>pint takes about 10 minutes!

The "pint" the blood bank takes isn't really a pint at all -- it is closer
to a cup and a bit (approximately 6% of the bodies blood contents, so the
bigger you are the more they can safely siphon-off).  Don't ask me why
people say "pint" -- *this* I don't know. <wg>

And the reason it takes 10 to 20 minutes to collect is because the vein in
your arm which they take it from is very much smaller than the vein (or
artery) in the neck our vampire friends are sucking from -- smaller tube so
it takes longer to trickle out.

So, imho, I think that it is only a very small stretch of the imagination to
believe that vampires can indeed kill their victims so efficiently.

>Any rebuttals?

Does the above qualify? <g>

 -- Bonnie <callalily@l.......>, formerly of the Vachonesque hair

"You gotta dip, you gotta doodle, you gotta shave LaCroix's poodle" - Adam
Sandler if he were an FK fan
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:09:31 -0600
From:         Amy Denton <Z_DENTONAM@t.......>
Subject:      Killing, sipping, blood volume

"Margaret L. Carter" thoughtfully said:

>Most of post snipped for space considerations<

>Whether the human body contains on average 6 quarts of blood or 6 pints, it's
>still too much to "drain" -- as in, "The body in the alley was completely
>drained of blood" -- in a single brief feeding session.
     You have a very good question, Margaret.  This impossibilty never even
occured to me (and I call myself a fan!).  Unfortunately, I can't answer it.  I
hope someone can, 'cause now I'm curious.

>So the oft-repeated FK scene of "grab victim -- vamp out -- chomp -- drop
>corpse," all apparently consummated in a couple of minutes is completely
>impractical.
   FK impratical!? (slaps self in face with look of astonishment) Say it ain't
so!!  Next, you'll be saying that dogs really *can't* bring over people or that
LaCroix really *does* have Nick's best interests at heart. I don't think I can
stand this!  *Keels over in a dead faint*
     All right, all right.  I know that was uncalled for, I just couldn't
resist.  I'm just teasing Margaret, really.  :)
      You really do pose an interesting question.  I think this is just one of
those things that TPTB hope we don't notice.  Kinda like 'where do the swords
go' in Highlander.'

TTYL,

Amy D.
z_dentonam@t.......
"Vachon could beat the stuffing out of Cash, without even trying." - Part of a
discussion about the characters on K:TE and FK.
(No, I don't like Cash but I like Lilly even less)


Any rebuttals?

Margaret L. Carter   MLCVamp@a.......
Nick / Natpacker, fledgling Light Cousin, and habitual sipper

=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:16:00 -0400
From:         Judith Freudenthal <DanaKnight@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Subject: A Question about Natalie

I don't remember any hints that Natalie was not born or raised in Canada.

I don't think it would be that strange for her and her brother to move to the
same province.  People sometimes chose to move to where they have family
already living.

Judy
DanaKnight@a.......
"In love and faith there is forever"
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:28:36 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Francesca, AtA, LK

Spoilers for "Francesca," "Ashes to Ashes" and "Last Knight"

10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1

> In AtA, Nick stakes Divia and she seems to be dying pretty quickly. (in
> the flashback in NinQ, when LC is staked he is dying *very* slowly....

One difference between AtA and NiQ is that Nick drove that stake all the
way through Divia.  The dying soldier didn't manage to get his stick very
deeply into LC, though it was deep enough to have to be wrenched out.  In
addition, Vachon makes a point of telling Tracy that the stake must go
right through his heart -- it can be assumed that Nick got Divia right
through the heart, whereas the soldier who tried to fend off LC did not
have the best aim (he was dying, after all).

> was under the assumption that although staking kills a vampire, they
> resurrect as soon as the stake is removed. Isn't that old vamp lore?

Vamp lore isn't necessarily the same as FK lore.  :-)

In FK, we believed LC was dead for a whole season, because he'd been
staked.  We still don't have a satisfactory explanation for Lucien "I'm
too old and powerful" LaCroix's survival.  LC revived from a staking in
NiQ, but as I said, the staking was inept.  Vachon obviously did not
revive when the stake was pulled from him, though I'm not adverse to the
idea that time will repair his injuries.  Spark was oh-so-dead when Nick
staked him, as was Francesca when the portcullis fell on her (don't you
think LC would have revived her if it had been possible?) and in LK, Nick
seems to assume that a staking is all that is required to send him to
Natalie.

*** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (akr@n.......) ***
"Remember that the faith you've lost is always there to regain... but
that green sock will never be found." -- St. Joan, the LK gag script
   (Keeper of the Light Cousin FAQ: email me for a copy.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:31:10 -0400
From:         Lisa Nullar <AlyraLii@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume

In a message dated 96-06-17 18:01:52 EDT, MLCVamp@a....... (Margaret L.
Carter) writes:

<< The only way for the victim to lose enough blood in a brief time to die
instantly would be for a major artery to be severed.  <snip> So the
oft-repeated FK scene of "grab victim -- vamp out -- chomp -- drop corpse,"
all apparently consummated in a couple of minutes is completely impractical.
Any rebuttals? >>

   I guess my first counter to this would be... suspension of disbelief.
 After all, if we are willing to believe that vampires live in Toronto how
much more of a step is it to believing their kills are accomplished this
quickly.  But that is just the rational side of me speaking ( I really try
not to let that get in the way of life too much <g>)

   I had always assumed that vampires tend to go for the jugular vein when
they do the traditional neck biting thing, so I would assume that counts as a
major artery... also, I think shock would play a big role in people dying so
quickly.  I mean, if out of nowhere your childhood monsters (or in cases like
mine, childhood playmates ;) came to life and decided you looked like a
likely meal, wouldn't you freak out a bit?  Intense shock has the ability to
kill a person even if the wound they recieve is not one normally considered
"fatal."

   Also, many times vampires are less than gentle with their victims... it is
plausible to believe that a broken neck or spine is the cause of many of the
deaths too...

   Just my thoughts....

Lisa Marie
(delurking so she can get used to posting.... I wanna play War!! ;)
alyralii@a.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:30:38 -0700
From:         Rick Bleyle <papaya@i.......>
Subject:      stories

 I.was.wondering.if.anyone.had.any.*good*.ideas.for.a.story.plot@i.......

because I've got what they call writers block

        Kelley Bleyle
papaya@i.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:37:49 EST
From:         Ronni Katz <ronnik@c.......>
Subject:      FK Mini Con at T Trek

     Hi all!

     Is anyone from the NYC/NJ/PA area going to the T Trek and the FK Mini
     Con that needs a roommate?  I'd love to go but need someone to share
     with.  I don't smoke, snore or wear moose pyjamas.

     Please Email me off list if you are interested.  Thanks!

     semi OBFK: On Father's Day I had some kith and kin over for dinner and
     one close friend of the family is from Barbados and she flipped when
     she saw the bottle of Ribena in my refrigerator.  In her country, they
     drink Ribena (cut of course with water!) like we drink orange juice.
     Accroding to her, it has LOTS of vitamin C and she was surprised to
     see that Americans drank the stuff.  I explained to her the FK
     connection and she laughed.  She has seen the show and never knew they
     used her favorite drink to simulate the blood.

     If you ever wanted to know if "real people" drank Ribena, they do!
     Next time I get to Barbados, I'll see if it's on the shelves in their
     supermarket!

     Ron the Enforcer
     Die-Hard
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:47:39 -0400
From:         DreamWeb <dreamweb@d.......>
Subject:      Killing - sipping - blood volume

>From:    "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
>Subject: Killing, sipping, blood volume
>
I think the viewpoint is a little off base...how much food or liquid could
someone ingest...did anyone ever watch Cool Hand Luke ??  Anyway (yuk...the
thought of all those hard boilded eggs).

Fantasy is something that transcends reality.  Those of us on the list are
drawn to vampires because it satisfied our need to believe that immortality
is possible.  Certainly we would become bloated(-looking) if we ingested six
quarts.  But it is our lust for this fantasy life that feeds us.  Whether or
not it would be "humanly" possible is not the issue.  After all, are they
not "flesh and blood - but not human".

I believe in immortality, being a born-again Christian.  I have had this
fascination with vampires since I was a young girl...flying around in the
dark, never growing old (never growing up was more like what I was thinking
at the time); living forever.  My belief in Jesus Christ makes me KNOW that
I will live forever.

But one of the finest things in this life for me is the role-playing ability
we each have.  Vampires brings out the best in us.  We close our eyes and we
become like them, flying off through centuries.  What Anne Rice has done
that I have not felt before is given us a taste of their "humanity" (what a
dichotomy)...what they are thinking and feeling.  What Forever Knight has
done is to have given us the best of both worlds...that part which we cannot
inhabit but merely visit in our wildest dreams and that part of darkness
which still has a soul and embraces the light.

Please forgive the waste of bandwidth.

--
Shadowlander of the Woofpack
"You can feel me there...and you know I'm waiting."
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:49:52 -0400
From:         Jennie Hayes <Finabair@a.......>
Subject:      WAR:  Natalie affiliations of all types

Will the leaders of the Nick&Natpackers and the Valentines (and any other
part-Natalie factions out there, if I'm as uninformed as I may be) please get
in touch with me on private e-mail?

Thanks!

Jennie  (leading the Natpack again)
finabair@a.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:55:29 -0400
From:         Pat Witham <catspaw@m.......>
Subject:      Re: GWD on Outer Limits

>Excuse me?  Ger...."STOUT"?????
>
>Dotti R

You're right Dotti, We don't use that word in reference to Ger. In
fact I was sort of wishing he had the part of the young lover (nude love
scene, etc.)  Pat Witham (catspaw@m.......)
Still loyal Knightie and member of CSS, Forever Knight who says Ni
**Faciemus ut Dewus Mountainus e Tuo Nasone Exeat!**, K-nigget
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:23:55 -0500
From:         Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject:      Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume

>probably more, to kill instantly.  The pint or so taken by the blood bank
>doesn't even leave most people feeling woozy.  And the extraction of that
>pint takes about 10 minutes!  The only way for the victim to lose enough
>blood in a brief time to die instantly would be for a major artery to be

But when you're donating, only your heart is pushing out the blood.  I've
always thought that there's a lot of suction going on in a vampire attack.
That's even more reason for a vampire attack to kill, now that I think of
it.  I mean, if there was enough suction pulling on the blood vessels,
there's got to be a good deal of damage there.

----  TJ
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:35:52 -0400
From:         dotti rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: LK & Blackwing

At 01:36 PM 6/17/96 -0500, you wrote:
>SPOILER SPACE:
>10
>9
>8
>7
>6
>5
>4
>3
>2
l

Now, Stephanie, I don't think Nick told her the sordid details....he
wouldn't be that cruel. I don't even consider it cheating in as much as
being swept up in something he couldn't quite get a handle on...that's the
way he looked when he showed up in her bedroom. He looked totally confused.
Besides, poor boy had been without Janette for quite a while....(vbeg) and I
have a feeling it really happened on the "spirit walk" rather than in the
real world.



Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
Defender of the Knight
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:45:33 -0500
From:         michael wayne jackson <mjay@n.......>
Subject:      Re: GWD on Outer Limits

Pat sparked an idea when she replied to Dotti's:
>>Excuse me?  Ger...."STOUT"?????
>>
>>Dotti R
>
>You're right Dotti, We don't use that word in reference to Ger. In
>fact I was sort of wishing he had the part of the young lover (nude love
>scene, etc.)

Okay.  How far do you want Ger to go?

1.A buns shot a la NYPD Blue?
2.Shadowy frontal nudity, a la late-night Showtime?
3.Well lit frontal nudity in an R-rated theatrical release?
4.Totally x-rated?

How far is too far for most of you?  Dotti will probably say "X marks the
spot", but would that be just too much?

mj
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:48:20 -0400
From:         Pat Witham <catspaw@m.......>
Subject:      Re: GWD on Outer Limits

>>fact I was sort of wishing he had the part of the young lover (nude love
scene, etc.)
>1.A buns shot a la NYPD Blue?
>2.Shadowy frontal nudity, a la late-night Showtime?
>3.Well lit frontal nudity in an R-rated theatrical release?
>4.Totally x-rated?
>
>How far is too far for most of you?  Dotti will probably say "X marks the
>spot", but would that be just too much?
>
>mj
I'm into X-rated also. Almost as good as the real thing. Oh,
I'm a bad girl. Pat W. (catspaw.mail.cruzio.com)
Still loyal Knightie and member of CSS, Forever Knight who says Ni
**Faciemus ut Dewus Mountainus e Tuo Nasone Exeat!**, K-nigget
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:03:08 -0500
From:         D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject:      FRANCESCA SPOILER: Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume

On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......> wrote:
>But when you're donating, only your heart is pushing out the blood.  I've
>always thought that there's a lot of suction going on in a vampire attack.

OK, to reply to this, I have to spoil Francesca:

So

if

you

don't

want

to

be

spoiled

stop

now! :)

OK....

In Francesca, when Nick was explaining why the corpse-victims in modern-day
Toronto had their throats slit, he specifically *said* that vampires needed a
pumping heart to bring the blood to them for feeding.  So I think that pretty
much rules out the "suction" theory. :)

Although I believe heart failure is often induced by rapid blood loss-- the
veins collapse and blood *can't* get back to the heart.  Or at least, that's
how
I remember reading it.

Diane E
# D Echelbarger                    gryphon@e.......  #
#    WWW HomePage:    http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ #
# "Look, I know you're a figment of my imagination,    #
# but you have to stop sneaking up on me!" N. Lambert  #
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:20:13 -0400
From:         dotti rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject:      Re: Killing, sipping, blood volume

I love this.  At least twice a year the subject of whether it's possible to
drain a human of blood in a small amount of time comes up and every times
the ideas that come up are priceless.  This is too kewl....as far as I'm
concerned, if I'm going to accept vampires in the first place, believe they
can fly, whammy and have enormous strength, the last thing I'm gonna quibble
on is whether it's feasible they can drain a body in a short amount of time.

But I do love reading all the explanations you guys come up with. Oh, and by
the way Amy, you're right....we are the sane ones!!!! BWAHAHAHAH!!

Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
Defender of the Knight
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:15:57 -0600
From:         Ted Atkinson <llacroix@i.......>
Subject:      USA network website

USA Network now has a website:
http://www.usa-network.com

Notably absent is a way to send feedback (that I could find), but, that may
change in the future.  I guess the USAO33A@p....... (that's an O not a
zero) is still the email address.

I guess they didn't want us to bombard them with more save FK requests.

Ted Atkinson    Cousin
llacroix@i.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:32:45 -0400
From:         dotti rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject:      Re: GWD on Outer Limits

At 07:45 PM 6/17/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Okay.  How far do you want Ger to go?
>
>1.A buns shot a la NYPD Blue?
>2.Shadowy frontal nudity, a la late-night Showtime?
>3.Well lit frontal nudity in an R-rated theatrical release?
>4.Totally x-rated?
>
>How far is too far for most of you?  Dotti will probably say "X marks the
>pot", but would that be just too much?
>
Oh, would I now?  Actually, I don't think there's anyting FUNNIER looking
than a naked man, I'm reminded me of a compass pointing in all directions at
once.  However, I do enjoy semi-nudity, front views almost to x-marks the
spot.  Otherwise, I might burst out laughing. I discovered this while
reading a Playgirl Magazine and rather than getting excited, I started
giggling....

I know, I know.....sick, sick, sick.

Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
Defender of the Knight
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:44:13 -0500
From:         Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject:      Blackwing: Did they?

Re Nick's real-or-virtual fling with Marian Blackwing, Dotti wrote:
>Now, Stephanie, I don't think Nick told <Nat> the sordid details....he
>wouldn't be that cruel.

Sure he would. He's our darling brick! Nick means well, but he has a bad
tendency to rub the wrong person's nose in things. Like how he dragged Nat
to the Raven in The Fix to show off being cured to Janette, who did NOT
want to see it. Likewise, practically the first thing he did after rolling
over and lighting the cigarette was to call Natalie and ask her to drop
everything and come over to see his newly de-guilted self. Gives "sexual
healing" a whole new meaning, eh? Were I Natalie, I think I would have
arrived with a high-powered crossbow, but she's more tolerant than I.

>...that's the way he looked when he showed up in her bedroom. He looked
>totally confused. Besides, poor boy had been without Janette for quite a
>while....(vbeg)

Maybe that's why he looked confused <g>. "Now let's see, is it Tab A in
Slot B, or...?" (ducking as Dotti throws virtual furniture).

>I have a feeling it really happened on the "spirit walk" rather than
>in the real world.

Maybe. I wish, for Nat's sake, that it were so. But the other stuff he saw
in the spirit walk didn't cause changes in his physical situation--he
didn't "come to" holding a knife or in a different location. But when we
next see our sexy brick conscious after the "walk" with Marian, he's
buttoning his shirt and giving her a very loving peck on the cheek as he
gets out of her bed. Certainly seems corporeal to me. That, and the fact
that Jess (?) asked if Nick was married before telling him Marian could
help him.

That said, I will confess that I nearly rolled over and died in
vicariously-lived ecstasy the first time I saw the Nick/Marian seduction
scene. There's nobody on this earth that plays passion as well as GWD.

Stephanie B.
=========================================================================

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