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Digest - 10 Feb 1996 to 11 Feb 1996 - Special issue

Sun, 11 Feb 1996

There are 33 messages totalling 1033 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Sci Fi Universe article (2)
  2. LaCroix's Conscience? (9)
  3. From Fred Mollin
  4. spoiler list? (2)
  5. WFXT again...
  6. What happened?
  7. human factor (3)
  8. Factions Advert: Mercs!
  9. I'M NEW
 10. SOS web page
 11. Does LaCroix have a conscience?
 12. The Beast Within (2)
 13. A Fascinating New Topic
 14. Inspiring music
 15. Saint Lacroix
 16. Music?
 17. How many are left?
 18. Vachon, the lost boy vampire
 19. Important stuff
 20. LIST RULES: quoting previous posts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:44:09 E
From:    Debra Ann Fiorini <fiorini@m.......>
Subject: Re: Sci Fi Universe article

Here's a quick question:
Does anyone know of an address where I can write Sci Fi Universe
and inquire to buy a copy (since I can't find one anywhere)?
or
Can anyone get a second copy of the March issue for me to buy
off of them??

Thanks,
Debra Ann
fiorini@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:56:42 -0500
From:    Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: LaCroix's Conscience?

Tippi Blevins writes:
>Oh goodness yes Lacroix has a conscience.  I think it peeves him to no end,

Gee, he doesn't seem to have ever been very bothered by some of the
cruelties, tortures, and mind games he's played on his "son".

>didn't see the ep where Lacroix declines to bring across his One True Love,
>Fleur.

Which was followed immediately by extracting a promise from Nick that if
he ever was in love with a mortal, that LC would have the right to take
her away from Nick.  Personally, I didn't buy that LC loved Fleur.  He
was certainly interested, maybe even infatuated with her.  But he
expressed *hatred* of having feelings for her to Nick.  I remember at
the time some speculation being bandied about that he "loved" Fleur
because she was a female version of Nick (substitutions anyone?).

LC has always tried to drum into Nick that such human morals and such
should be considered nonsense to vampires, that vampires don't need to
comply with human morality.  Seems to me he'd include having a conscience
in that remark.

Nick has never been able to totally let go of his moral attitudes.  He
wanted to go back to be human soon after being brought over.  When LC
told him that wasn't possible, for a while he considered himself damned
and so tried to live as LC taught him to.  But there were always times
in the flashbacks when Nick felt guilty for killing someone or
expressed some other "mortal failing".  Nick finally decided he
couldn't live with killing people anymore.  I've seen no such hesitation
or concern in LC.  The times has made it more difficult for him or any
vampire to as easily kill as in the past, but LC has done so since his
return and with no compunctions about it either.

He may care about Nick and Janette and maybe some other vampires,
but caring is not the same as conscience.  And his caring usually has
to be on *his* terms too.

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:02:33 -0600
From:    Annmarie <mickey@c.......>
Subject: From Fred Mollin

Please..do not take the following to be depressing in anyway,we've heard
this before and we may hear it again. Fred is a very hopeful person,take his
lead and keep the letters going!!!!!

Forwarded from Fred Mollin:
>
>Please pass the latest word along that the future remains bleak and pressure
>still needs to be exerted on the local stations and TriStar.As of Friday, we
>were considered terminated as far as Jim Parriott knew...
>Whew...
>I won't believe it until the word is official.
>The fans should hold on to some hope, but it's gonna take a pretty amazing
>miracle..
>
>thanks from all of us on the knight shift
>
>Fred
Save Forever Knight!
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
E-mail for more information: mickey@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:04:17 -0500
From:    Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>
Subject: spoiler list?

Can someone forward me the info for getting on the FK spoiler list?  I have
to talk about The Human Factor before I explode!  (Or implode, whichever the
case may be...) ;)

WCT

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:07:23 -0500
From:    Michelle McDonald <mcdonald@m.......>
Subject: WFXT again...

Bostonians:

Sorry if I missed a posting on this, but it was my understanding that
WFXT in Boston was going to show Games Vampires Play tonight.

It seems we have wrestling again.  Am I missing something?

I *still* haven't seen this one!

thanks for your help,

Michelle

// michelle mcdonald            mcdonald@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:07:00 EST
From:    Laurie Salopek <LMS5@p.......>
Subject: What happened?

War 6: This time it's personal....

Wars are comprised of battles. You all won the first battle, but please tell
me everyone isn't just sitting on their laurels??? The second battle is the
toughest and the most important. You can't let Tri-Star think you all went
belly up! Right now it seems like it would be so easy for Tri-Star to say
undecided and let the voices die down.. Well... DON'T!

Write..Write..Write you syndicated stations. Tell them how much you love the
show and hope to watch again next season. I mean, that was how this list
manage to get FK renew the first time.

Is anyone still keeping a count of the letters mailed to the syndicated
stations? Telling Tri-Star isn't going to help much. They need to know stations
want the show. Stations have to approach Tri-Star and ask for the show. Is
anyone keeping a record of those who have contacted syndies and what the
replies were? Has anyone thought of dividing the US into regions and having
someone work to spear head writing campaigns for their region???

You all were so incredibly phenomenal (I want to add more adjectives but
your tongue would probably get tied trying to say the list :-) in the first
battle, BUT THE WAR IS NOT OVER...YET!

So, what about Phase II??


Laurie

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 21:24:29 -0800
From:    Heather Thornburg <penni@t.......>
Subject: human factor

USA is going to be showing human factor tonight!

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 21:29:40 -0800
From:    Heather Thornburg <penni@t.......>
Subject: Re: spoiler list?

On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Tippi Blevins wrote:

> Can someone forward me the info for getting on the FK spoiler list?  I have
> to talk about The Human Factor before I explode!  (Or implode, whichever the
> case may be...) ;)

I sent her the info.

Heather
penni@w.......
Knightie, Nick/Nat Packer

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:40:40 EST
From:    MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR <VQRW76A@p.......>
Subject: Factions Advert: Mercs!

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        Do you like all of the characters, but not all the time?

  Do you admire Nick, but occasionally get the urge to smack him?
        Do you enjoy watching Lacroix, but don't want to be alone in a
locked room with him?
Do you long for Janette's wardrobe, style, and wit?
           Do you have the urge to simultaneously run your fingers through
Vachon's hair, and reach for the scissors?
        Do you admire Nat's surgery style, but think a trip to Jamaica
would really do her some good?

Do you like shiny weapons? Dull, flat, unshiny ones with triggers?

Does the idea of helping people, getting paid, and having fun appeal?

Would your friends say you have a creative (weird, twisted, perverse) turn
of mind?

        How about the idea of lots of chocolate, explosives, death-defying
escapes, high-speed chases, and good parties?

**Truth in Advertising Warning:: We can't guarantee any of this except the
parties. Those are pretty much a done deal.:) **

       Mercenaries are Die-Hards who don't have to post their own bail,
abide by the rules, or put money in parking meters.  Plus, we have a really
cool logo (two crossed swords over a dollar sign)

The real War can't last forever. War #7 is coming, and YOU want to be a
part of it!!  When it happens, be part of the team that can be a force for
good, evil, or the guy who's paying the best. The Mercenaries' Guild.

(Paid for by Local #1228)

Contact Lane Lombardia  at Longpath@d....... about joining!

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 02:27:37 -0500
From:    Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: Re: Sci Fi Universe article

>And, of course, the Cousin in me was delighted not only by the nice
>interview with Nigel, but by the discussion of the Nick/LC relationship
>by Bedard and Lalonde.  Btw, speaking of the Nigel article, our
>favorite lurker strikes again.  Remember the forkni discussion some
>months back about who we would cast in "FK The Movie"?  Guess who was
>paying attention! :-)

About 5 minutes after I read your letter, I was reading through some old
archived stuff on my drive from before I got into the show, and I found a
"warning" that NB is on the list.  Is he still?

----  TJ


 Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine:  News of the Science Fiction Universe

                     http://www.cybervanguard.com
Come visit us, or write us at vanguard@p....... for sponsorship info

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:09:00 -0500
From:    Robbi Egersdorf <egersdor@m.......>
Subject: I'M NEW

I'M REALLY NEW TO THIS. JUST GOT MY SUBSCRIPTION TO
FORKNI-L TODAY.
THIS IS JUST REALLY EATING ME UP SO I HAVE TO TELL
SOMEONE WHO CAN UNDERSTAND.
I'VE ONLY STARTED WATCHING FOREVER KNIGHT SINCE JAN
1ST AND I'M SO HOOKED I CAN'T STAND IT.
IT SEEMS I CAN'T THINK OF MUCH ELSE WHEN MY BRAIN HAS
SOME DOWN TIME AND EVEN WHEN IT DOESN'T
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS SHOW HAS BEEN UNDER MY NOSE ALL
THIS TIME AND I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT.
THEY DON'T GIVE THIS SHOW MUCH ADVERTISEMENT DO
THEY?
I'VE TAPED ABOUT SIX EPISODES SINCE I STARTED AND HAVE
TO WATCH AT LEAST ON A DAY OR I GO INTO WITHDRAWL.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM YET, I DON'T REALLY EVEN KNOW
WHAT THE DIFFERENT FACTIONS ARE, BUT THE MORE NICK
SHOWS HIS FANGS IN AN EPISODE THE BETTER I LIKE IT.
SOMETIMES I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MYSELF-I HAVE
SUCH A HUNGER FOR MORE-ANYTHING.
EVERYTHING I'VE FOUND ON THE WWW HELPS BUT I NEED
SOMETHING I CAN REALLY SINK MY TEETH INTO

REALLY I'M NOT PSYCHOTIC OR ANYTHING, JUST REALLY
TAKEN

ROBBI

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:41:38 -0700
From:    [Name removed by request]
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

At 11:56 PM 2/10/96 -0500, Sandra Gray wrote:
>Tippi Blevins writes:
>>Oh goodness yes Lacroix has a conscience.  I think it peeves him to no end,
>
>Gee, he doesn't seem to have ever been very bothered by some of the
>cruelties, tortures, and mind games he's played on his "son".

i agree with Sandra here. (And it's interesting how you immediately took on
that aggressive, sarcastic tone there, honey. Preparing, i suppose :)

i'm sure he has a conscience. He has a brain and thinks complex thoughts, he
probably has a conscience. He just either denies it, ignores it, or
acknowledges but acts against it.

i don't really believe in using any single episode to define a character
(because of that nagging little nonexistent continuity problem) but we do
know that (for the duration of an hour, anyway) LaCroix has adopted the
"no-guilt" stance to vampirism (to battle Nick's pesky insanity crisis in
"Curiouser & C"). Most all of first season (and therefore in flashback), he
killed without hesitation and with as little discretion as was necessary to
keep from being discovered or recorded (when he could help it). He doesn't
care who these people are, why they should live, what they should live for.
They're food, diversions, toys, items you'd bring on an overnight flight to
Singapore to pass the time (and sip from afterwards).

>>didn't see the ep where Lacroix declines to bring across his One True
>>Love, Fleur.

He didn't bring her over (why do i want to add an echo affect to that
phrase? How corny can you get? Brrriing her acroooosss. Submit to the
Daaaahrk Side Luuuuuke...) because he was concerned with her well-being
(whether borne out of true, unselfish love or infatuation with an ideal,
etc). So we certainly saw that he'll listen to his conscience when it
behooves him (did i really say "behoove"???), when it affects his family or
his mortal Snookums. But his conscience - acting with the goodwill of others
in general - is not foremost in LC's mind. He'll be good when he wants to
be. Not often. Never, if he can help it. Why should he? Like a kid in his
pop's candy store, the king of the blacktop - no rules, no consequences, no
God (in early theory). Being bad is too much fun, and too appropriate to
being a vampire. He's going to fall into cliche if he doesn't watch it,
believe you me... (probably already has, but don't tell me. i don't want to
know.)

>But he expressed *hatred* of having feelings for her to Nick.

Probably 'cause she really messed up his Lonely "Joe Cool" image. i'd be
ticked off too. i mean, you work hard on presentation, you build up this
great image in front of the guys, you got this whole system down, you're The
Fonz of the Dark Side... then suddenly, at an airy voice and graceful whip
of the hair, it all comes tumbling down. <vachie snort) Women. Go fig.

>LC has always tried to drum into Nick that such human morals and such
>should be considered nonsense to vampires, that vampires don't need to
>comply with human morality.  Seems to me he'd include having a conscience
>in that remark.

Absolutely. LC views the bi-peds as separated into "us and them"; once
you've shed your mortal coil, you cannot live by their rules; etc. i think
he's been working a little too hard at this view, to the point of boring,
deja-vu-inducing (but always elegant, alas) babble.

[Name removed by request] (still a Cousin though, apparently with a death wish and new place on
the hit list)
How can you trust someone who bleeds for seven days and doesn't die? - BGW

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:58:13 -0500
From:    Cousin Candice <winter@j.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, [Name removed by request] wrote:

> i agree with Sandra here. (And it's interesting how you immediately took on
> that aggressive, sarcastic tone there, honey. Preparing, i suppose :)

Sin Number One:  Never agree with a Knightie --it;s against the rules!!
*VWG* ;)

> i'm sure he has a conscience. He has a brain and thinks complex thoughts, he
> probably has a conscience. He just either denies it, ignores it, or
> acknowledges but acts against it.

I'm willing to bet Uncle's conscience has nothing nice to say about his
treatment of his children, but since when are we able to analyze
pre-Empiric Romans? *cackling under her breath*

> >>didn't see the ep where Lacroix declines to bring across his One True
> >>Love, Fleur.
>
> He didn't bring her over (why do i want to add an echo affect to that
> phrase? How corny can you get? Brrriing her acroooosss.

Well yeah, so what?  We all know he can hold a grudge..

> Submit to the Daaaahrk Side Luuuuuke...) because he was concerned with

Lay *off* the pipe [Name removed by request]...

> be. Not often. Never, if he can help it. Why should he? Like a kid in his
> pop's candy store, the king of the blacktop - no rules, no consequences, no
> God (in early theory). Being bad is too much fun, and too appropriate to
> being a vampire. He's going to fall into cliche if he doesn't watch it,

Hey, it's a good way to live, really it is.  Just ask Brian, he'll tell
you....umm...oh wait, this isn't JADFE.
Sorry.

> Probably 'cause she really messed up his Lonely "Joe Cool" image. i'd be

Geez, I thought Uncle was immune to Snoopy-characterization. *groaning in
agony*

> great image in front of the guys, you got this whole system down, you're The
> Fonz of the Dark Side... then suddenly, at an airy voice and graceful whip
> of the hair, it all comes tumbling down. <vachie snort) Women. Go fig.

Fonz???  of the DARKSIDE???  Ok now I _Know_ you've been watching too
much of the sci-fi channel lately...

Any man, in the right set of circumstances, will melt and crumble like
chocolate chip cookies in the hands of someone who knows how to use what
they've got.  It's just a fact of life.

> [Name removed by request] (still a Cousin though, apparently with a death wish and new place on
> the hit list)

*Taking note in her Little Black Book...*

Yours,
Candice -obsessed by memory, befriended by desire, Cousin by choice
          Toreador by default
winter@j.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:57:47 -0500
From:    Janette Z <Janette92@a.......>
Subject: Re: human factor

In a message dated 96-02-11 00:19:50 EST, you write:

>USA is going to be showing human factor tonight!

    When, what time?  I'm up at 1:30 in the morning waiting for that episode,
you mean I could go to bed!!! (NOW you tell me?)

Ravenette,. Immortal Beloved,
Janette92@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 02:00:29 -0500
From:    Janette Z <Janette92@a.......>
Subject: SOS web page

   While I'm on, I might as well ask the list, what is the SOS web page?  I
decided, finally, to add a little save FK (with a pathetic please at the end)
to my signature, and someone responded to little old me asking for the web
page, and I lost it!!!  Could someone pretty please tell me what it is again?


Ravenette, Immortal Beloved,
Janette92@a.......

Save FK!  Go the the ?????? page to find out how!!!

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 02:12:46 -0600
From:    Annmarie <mickey@c.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

At 11:56 PM 2/10/96 -0500, Sandra Gray wrote:

>Personally, I didn't buy that LC loved Fleur.  He
>was certainly interested, maybe even infatuated with her.  But he
>expressed *hatred* of having feelings for her to Nick.

I felt that he did in fact love Fleur and viewed his hatred of his feelings
not as having less feeling for Fleur,but hatred at the fact that she had
*made* him feel.Something that he had not allowed himself to fall victim to
in a very long time and I don't think that "victim" is a role that LaCroix
is comfortable in. Yet it was an eye opener for him that there are some
things that we do not have control over. He could remove himself from the
situation but he could not remove the feelings from his heart.
  In BMV I have always felt that LaCroix did not believe Nick for a second
when he said he didn't love Natalie. I think that he realized just how much
she did mean and that he has/had been jealous of Nat,but when push came to
shove, he could not deny his "son" his mortal love. If LC really wanted to
get rid of Nat,he could easily and probably with no ties to himself.

 >LC has always tried to drum into Nick that such human morals and such
>should be considered nonsense to vampires, that vampires don't need to
>comply with human morality.

I wish that I was better at episode titles,but I'm not. But in the one where
Nick in a flashback killed the guy who he thought had betrayed them to the
Nazis and then turned around and killed the girl believing that she was the
real spy, only to have LC stand there and find another reason why she might
have be consorting with a German officer and leaving Nick to wonder what he
had done. I feel that LC was trying to tell him that they can not pass
judgement like that,excuse their killing if its for a good cause,who are
they to judge? As Vachon would later say, "We do not live to kill,we kill to
live"
LC was trying to teach Nick that he could not play judge and jury,better to
not think about what you are doing,just do it.



Save Forever Knight!
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
E-mail for more information: mickey@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:18:39 -0800
From:    Frisson <frisson@i.......>
Subject: Does LaCroix have a conscience?

Does LC have a conscience?
My answer:

Is Natalie alive?


Cousin Diana
 mercenary
frisson@i.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 02:18:08 -0500
From:    Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

[Name removed by request] writes:
>Most all of first season..., he killed without hesitation and with
>as little discretion as was necessary to keep from being discovered
>or recorded...

And in second season went on killing *rampages* that were blamed on
*Nick* sometimes (Capitol Offense, where the villagers were chasing
Nick for murders *LC* had committed) or just apparently to get Nick
in trouble (Undue Process, where Nick was *hanged* for a murder that
*LC* committed).  Real fun guy, he is.

Rather than cover his tracks, he not only showed disregard for the
consequences, but seemed to find amusement that people would go
after Nick for things he did.

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:20:27 -0800
From:    Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Cousin Candice wrote:

> Sin Number One:  Never agree with a Knightie --it;s against the rules!!
> *VWG* ;)

Hey!  I resemble that remark!  No brownie points for you, Candice
dearest. :P

> > probably has a conscience. He just either denies it, ignores it, or
> > acknowledges but acts against it.
>
> I'm willing to bet Uncle's conscience has nothing nice to say about his

I think, first of all, that we need a definition of "conscience", here.

To have a mortal conscience as a vampire can cause severe psychological
problems (Curiouser & Curiouser, anyone?), and Lacroix's smart enough to
know that.  So he changes his morals to fit his circumstances.  When he
sees Nicholas struggle to hold on to those same morals, of course he's
upset and will try to get Nick to change.  He *knows* what this will do
to him.  So, following his own personal code, he tries to convince Nick
that his way is the right one, since he values Nick and wants his sanity
just the way it is. :)

> Geez, I thought Uncle was immune to Snoopy-characterization. *groaning in
> agony*

Uncle is immune to no kind of embarrassment I know of.  As a matter of
fact, he's highly susceptible to most of them. ;)

> Fonz???  of the DARKSIDE???  Ok now I _Know_ you've been watching too

See?  My point is made, exactly! :)

Catherine
"Beware smiling Knighties." - Dianne DS, as I'm writing this. :)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Boone                 catheboo@c.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with
 themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." - H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:29:19 -0800
From:    Frisson <frisson@i.......>
Subject: The Beast Within

Cassie wrote:

>>I fight against the notion of a "beast within," but I still seem to
>>be drawn to characters who are fighting that beast

This is not a flame.  I'm genuinely interested. -- Do you not believe
in the 'beast within,' or do you not *want* to believe that you have
one.  The reason I ask is because if you do believe in it, then
fighting it would seem to me to be a self defeating task.  That is not
to say that some measure of control should not be used to contain it,
(LaCroix  has his on a leash, albeit a long one;-)) but fighting it
will, IMO, only make it angrier.(see Nick in the appropriately titled
_Feeding the Beast_ ep)  I personally belive that accepting the beast
is key to finding peace with oneself.

Cousin Diana
 mercenary
frisson@i.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:40:18 CST
From:    L'Phantom <jrarmstr@p.......>
Subject: Re: The Beast Within

I'd be inclined to agree with Cousin Diana.  Fighting the beast will only
antagonize it, and make it fight back.

Imagine, if you will, that you have a vicious doberman in the backyard.  Now,
to keep this dog from gnawing your legs off, would you (1) attempt to befriend
it, train it, and control it or (2) beat it with a large stick?  To my way of
thinking, choice 1 would be a much more desirable option.  True, it may not
work, but it has a greater chance of success than just making the dog angrier.


Inside your mind, as always,
L'Phantom
--Cousin-in-training
http://bsc.edu/~jrarmstr/
Help Save Forever Knight!  Ask me how!  jrarmstr@b.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:18:36 -0700
From:    [Name removed by request]
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

At 02:18 AM 2/11/96 -0500, Sandra Gray wrote:

>And in second season went on killing *rampages* that were blamed on
>*Nick* sometimes....Real fun guy, he is.

Heck, yeah.

>Rather than cover his tracks, he not only showed disregard for the
>consequences, but seemed to find amusement that people would go
>after Nick for things he did.

Oh course! Like is said, he's going to do what he wants. He could be seen as
acting perpetually like he's in his terrible twos. And in some eps, he's
going to be discreet 'cause there're the Enforcers just yonder, and lots of
eps he's going to be making Nick miserable. LC is (now i'm really getting
suicidal here) that kind who sat behind you in 5th grade and pulled your
braids so hard you yelled out and was made to stand in the corner for the
duration of Social Science hour. He's your older brother who dropped the egg
carton on the kitchen floor and conveniently smeared the yolk on you just
before Mom walked in. Wait, somebody tell me where i was going with that...?

Cousin Candice breaks in:

>Lay *off* the pipe [Name removed by request]...

<sigh> Is it that obvious? :) (You had me literally falling out of my seat
with that one, Candice. i really appreciated bruising my bum. You'll be
hearing from my imaginary lawyer.)

>*Taking note in her Little Black Book...*

Oh, yeah? Yeah? Well... um, well... i have friends in FBI relocation so HA!
<flipping through the phone book, suddenly eager to make new friends in law
enforcement and civilian protection... Um, Knighties? Nick? Hm??>

Catherine writes:

>I think, first of all, that we need a definition of "conscience", here.

i've been using it in terms of LC knowing the difference between good and
evil, and doing things (or not doing, i.e. killing) in consideration of
others. So, okay, yeah, moral values like you said :)

>From what I gather of your argument so far, y'all are taking "conscience"
>to be mortal moral values....If so, then I would say definitely no, Lacroix
>has no conscience.  Lacroix really doesn't give a hoot or bother what
>mortals think about what he does or how he does it.

It's just a little thing in the grand discussion, i guess, but sticking to
my dictionary definition of "knowing right from wrong", i'd say he does...
he just doesn't follow such morals. What did Lestat say? "Tell me how bad I
am. I love hearing it."?? LC knows he's being evil and naughty. He *likes*
it. But, no, he won't act according to our morals, he doesn't care what we
think (as long as we fear him, think "Ooh, that LaCroix is so naughty", et
al.). i guess it's an anal tether to my "conscience" definition but LC not
having a conscience equates him to a complete ignoramous, for me.

>To have a mortal conscience as a vampire can cause severe psychological
>problems (Curiouser & Curiouser, anyone?), and Lacroix's smart enough to
>know that.  So he changes his morals to fit his circumstances.  When he

That sounds good to me. You know i think it's just my defintion that
throwing me out of whack. But does everybody get what i was trying to say up
there? i'm going to go get a dictionary. Make sure i'm not making a
vocabular moron of myself.

Candice:

>> Geez, I thought Uncle was immune to Snoopy-characterization. *groaning in
>> agony*

Catherine:

>Uncle is immune to no kind of embarrassment I know of.  As a matter of
>fact, he's highly susceptible to most of them. ;)

He certainly got out of "Getting NAKED" unscathed. *i* was a wreck but he
seemed perfectly fine. He's okay, i'm not a bit okay.

>> Fonz???  of the DARKSIDE???  Ok now I _Know_ you've been watching too
>
>See?  My point is made, exactly! :)

What? Whaaaaaaaat??

[Name removed by request]
How can you trust someone who bleeds for seven days and doesn't die? - BGW

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 03:35:25 -0500
From:    Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

Candice writes:
>>Fonz???  of the DARKSIDE???
Catherine writes:
>See?  My point is made, exactly! :)
[Name removed by request] writes:
>What? Whaaaaaaaat??

Giant Q-Tip...*Swab*! ;)  Lichen! ;)

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 03:37:20 -0500
From:    Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix's Conscience?

Wooly Bully! (those catepillar brows) ;)

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 03:46:44 -0500
From:    Rebecca Burns <r.burns@g.......>
Subject: Re: A Fascinating New Topic

On Sat 10-Feb-1996  1:29p, Chana wrote:

C> BTW, Wyn Davies was also in Airwolf, for those that remember
C> that show.  I actually remember his character, although I
C> would have never come up with that piece of data on my
C> own.

I remember that!  *bounce* *bounce*  I've got six episodes on tape *bounce*
*bounce*  I'm waiting for them to replay on WWOR so I can tape the rest.

Becky
Knightie, NatPacker & closet Cousin

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 04:26:07 -0500
From:    Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Inspiring music

Since I've gotten a couple of requests about what music I listened
to that inspired the poem "Dark Night" (guess I should have put quote
marks or asterisks around it in the intro), I decided to post it to
the list.  It's called "The Immortal Kiss of the Vampire" and is
classically flavored instrumental music ("rich, dark, sensuous music
inspired by an 18th century vampire") by Lee Blaske (c 1994 Orchard
Lane Music, Inc.).  My husband found it in a discount rack in a
department store.  Guess I should have noted in the intro who the
music was by.  Sorry about that.

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......

ObFK:  Anyone know what episode USA is going to rerun on Thursday?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 09:17:04 -0500
From:    Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>
Subject: Saint Lacroix

Okay, he's not a saint by a long shot but it certainly does make a nifty
subject header, doesn't it? :)  And kind of a neat mental image as well...

[Name removed by request] wrote:

> But his conscience - acting with the goodwill of others
>in general - is not foremost in LC's mind.

I think many people are making the mistake of mixing up humans and vampires
into one category.  You say that he doesn't act with the goodwill of others
(in mind), but what you really mean to say is he doesn't act for the goodwill
of *humans*.  We've already seen him fight for the survival of vampires.  He
takes care of his own.  That's what humans do, yes?  We act for the welfare
of our own species often at the expense of others.

People have been defining a conscience as knowing the difference between
right and wrong, but we've got to consider that vampires (at least those who
are on good terms with their inner beasties) have a different set of rights
and wrongs.  <Putting on my anthropology hat again>  There's a thing called
"cultural relativity" which is basically looking at each culture on its own
terms.  Let's try to do that, shall we?  We can't judge the French badly for
giving their children wine -- that's a part of *their* culture.  My vegan
friends don't judge *me* harshly for eating a quarter pounder now and then.
 If we're going to talk about right and wrong, how right is it to judge folks
according to our *own* little system of beliefs?  Hmmm?

And all this stuff about Nick having a conscience and feeling guilty about
killing humans...  Well, I think that makes him spookier than Lacroix by a
long shot.  After all, he *knows* it's wrong to drink blood, but he does it
anyway.  It's like I have nothing against a society which practices
ritualized cannibalism, where it is accepted by every member of that society
as natural and good.  But I sure as heck am bothered by someone who practices
cannibalism when the society in which he lives (and our Nick has chosen to
live in human society as one of us) says it's wrong.  Very spooky indeed.
 (If he wasn't so good looking, I wouldn't be able to forgive him at all! ;)
)

Hey, I'll take my chances with Lacroix any day!  At least I know where I
stand! ;)

Wicked Cousin Tippi

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 11:24:41 -0500
From:    Loose Cannon <LoosCanN@a.......>
Subject: Re: Music?

>What music did you use to inspire you to write?  I.e. the name of the cd
>or tape, and the artist.
>Thank you,
>Barbara

When I'm writing LaCroix I play "I Love It (when you call me names)" by Joan
Armorplating, er, Armatrading over and over and over again.  It puts me in
the correct abused/abusive frame of mind.

Nick, sigh, well, "Moon over Bourbon Street" by Sting.  I know, trite.

I haven't written anything with Vachon yet, but "City of Love" on the Yes
90125 album immediately brings him to mind, really *getting into* the local
nightlife.

I've never seen Janette *sniff*, so...no theme song there.

Leslie

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:25:54 -0330
From:    Jason Ryan <ibe0018@i.......>
Subject: Re: human factor

On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Janette Z wrote:

> >USA is going to be showing human factor tonight!

        On what list can we discuss the episode "human factor"

**************************************
"La vie pour toujours, ma cher petite
-Jason Ryan
ibe0018@i.......
**************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:33:07 -0330
From:    Jason Ryan <ibe0018@i.......>
Subject: How many are left?

        I was wondering how many episodes of fk are left, and whick
episode is the last in the time line so far(the most up to date one)
Here in Newfoundland, we get fk on friday but I know those eps. are old
seasons, on Saturdays(3:00 am) we get what i think is the current season
but I am not sure, last night i wacth "The Human Factor" but I don't know
what season this is, if anyone can help,please:)

**************************************
"La vie pour toujours, ma cher petite
-Jason Ryan
ibe0018@i.......
**************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 12:48:13 -0400
From:    Antonia Mandry <MA97AD14@a.......>
Subject: Re: Vachon, the lost boy vampire

I think the Lost Boy reference for Vachon is that his soul is lost. !
His conscience is there, but the animalistic side of his nature is so strong
that his humanity is lost or drowned within. That side is struggling to
escape and occassionally does. I think the "crew" is what helps him do this.
Just think, if he was a complete loner he'd care about no one and be that much
farther from humanity then he already is. Nick, IMO, is far too angst-ridden.
Guilt has its place, but when it starts inhibiting you from doing your
"job" (real job or reacing his spiritual goal) it's debilitating and must
be put in the background. I like Nick but I think he has to except his
vampire side (that might make him that much more determined to find a cure).
ok, amateur psychiatrist steps down ... erg!

Toni M.
Wombat extraordinaire

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 12:06:08 -0600
From:    Sharon Joy <SJoy@u.......>
Subject: Important stuff

Lots of exciting discussion going on over on the Spoiler List about this ep.

I just want to reiterate what Felicia and others have said:  We *need* to
keep writing letters *now.*  This is the crucial time, or we won't have the
energy of a vibrant new episode to contend with. The latest post from Fred
M. attests that we need to get some pressure on now.

So let's keep the discussions going.  And let's also write a new round of
letters.  We CAN do this!


--------Sharon Joy -  A Forever Knightie -  SJoy@u.......
          There's a past and-----there's a past...
Go here:  http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:04:53 -0500
From:    Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......>
Subject: LIST RULES: quoting previous posts

Just a reminder re: list rules:

When replying to previous posts, you can only quote FOUR LINES of someone
else's post at a time.  In other words, you can quote four lines, state
your opinion on them; then quote four lines on a different point, and
answer those... but there should NOT be more than four quoted lines of text
in a row.

Remember that some people pay by the line or the word for e-mail -- and
people on AOL and Compuserve who download their mail are paying by the
minute -- and with the EXTREMELY high volume of mail on the spoiler list,
especially, every extra bit of wasted bandwidth adds up tremendously.

I'm not trying to be the list 'nag' here, but... well, look at it this way.
 One person posts, quotes eight lines from someone else's post.  Other
people see it, maybe new listmembers who haven't found their way to the faq
yet, and they figure, hey, if this person did it, it's okay... pretty soon,
everyone's quoting 10 or 12 lines at a time, and the digests are HUGE, and
people start getting irritated, and say, "Why doesn't someone do something
about this???"

Since I am in fact the person who is supposed to "do something about this",
 I'm trying to keep it from happening in the first place.  Makes sense, eh?
  :-)

If you're new to the list, you can download the FAQ from:

ftp://ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/people/lms5/fkmisc/fk.faq

The document isn't exactly current, but it DOES include most of the
important info re: FK and the lists.

And for those people who are only subscribed to FORKNI-L and are wondering
why the heck there's no discussion of the new episodes going on... all
posting on new episodes is done on FKSPOILR.  To get onto this list, send
the following command to <listserv@p.......>

"SUBSCRIBE FKSPOILR Firstname Lastname"

(except take out the quotation marks, and yes, the spelling of the listname
is correct!)

Any other questions, as always, feel free to e-mail me PRIVATELY, and I'll
respond ASAP.

Warmly and fuzzily yours,

Jamie M.R. -- Asst. Listowner, FORKNI-L/etc.


--
KEEP THE FAITH! -- Jamie M.R. <immajer@p.......>
The Illustrated C.O.U.S.I.N. & 13th Natpacker -- Mercenary
SFK WebGoddess -- Asst. Listowner, FORKNI-L/FKFIC-L/FKSPOILR
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
THIS IS WAR #6. And this time, it's personal.

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 10 Feb 1996 to 11 Feb 1996 - Special issue
*******************************************************************


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