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Digest - 7 Feb 1996 - Special issue

Wed, 7 Feb 1996

There are 34 messages totalling 1007 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Jamies Fly
  2. New Topic--last 3rd season ep (2)
  3. it's a serious discussion! :)
  4. New topic? (2)
  5. Nick's Beast and Natalie's Attraction
  6. Nick and Children (2)
  7. Bloody tears? (2)
  8. Revealations
  9. Sorry
 10. Scams, Fuzzy-Wuzzies, FKFIC
 11. moths and fanfic and kryptonite
 12. Glad you stayed, Cassie
 13. Unwellness Love & Nick's Wants
 14. Another USA MO; Fanfic Challenge
 15. Mass Murderers?
 16. it's a serious discussion! :
 17. Publicity
 18. Vampires: Predators or Monsters?
 19. Why superhuman folk hold such appeal
 20. .sig request???
 21. FK on WPGH, Pittsburgh
 22. Nick's addiction
 23. Nick as a mortal: Minority view
 24. Half Vampires????
 25. Humans yummy!
 26. Tattoo permanence
 27. No butts, no chests (2)
 28. GVP no spoiler.
 29. Les Enfants (and tattoos)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:55:54 EST
From:    TORREY L HARRIS <SSZK27A@p.......>
Subject: Jamies Fly

It was still alive when I fished it out.

 Then it was resurrected months later by Nick and the mind of  a sleep
deprived nurse, only to be flamed into non existence by the non
silliness police.

 It was a very " one of Nicks fledglings" thing to do.

( running away now <G>)

Torrey

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:10:48 -0800
From:    Cousin Cherri <cdmunoz@e.......>
Subject: Re: New Topic--last 3rd season ep

>Of course, I'd like them to decide that it really won't work between them,
>have Nick take off with Janette, and Natalie go to LaCroix for "consolation".

You're Canadian, Jane, write this script for them.
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!!


"Cousin Cherri Munoz" <cdmunoz@e.......> FK Optimist's Club,  Sime/Gen
    I don't WANT a new one. I LIKE that one. <LaCroix-Father's Day>
      Save FOREVER KNIGHT!                       NATPE Strikeforce Survivor
      http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:19:48 -0500
From:    "Mark L. Elliott" <01mlelliott@b.......>
Subject: Re: it's a serious discussion! :)

Alikhat said:
        "Well, if it's a matter of survival of the *chicest*, (snip)
That's a battle that the Raven/ettes would win hands down, because to us,
nothing is worth doing if it's not done with style.  Right, Tami, Susan G.????

                                Ravenously yours,
                                The Magister
                                Well-dressed Raven

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:21:05 -0700
From:    Alm <ulrike@h.......>
Subject: Re: New topic?

Beth asked whether or not Nick's body would deteriorate (ie. age) or turn
to dust or whatnot if he became mortal.  I don't think it would turn to
dust because we've seen that at least to some extent vampirism is
biological.  Turning to dust kind of implies that there was some mystical
energy force animating him and that was the only thing keeping him
going.  As for deterioration, I'm not sure.  If a cure really _worked_,
then wouldn't his body simply revert back to being entirely human?
Perhaps go on aging from there?  Or maybe he would waste away simply
because he had lost a great deal of his original, human DNA; apparently,
part of what causes the aging process is that when cells divide, they
lose some of the end-sections of DNA.  They eventually lose so much that
body functions are affected.  Just a thought. :-)

Cousin Alm }} "I'm like a bad penny; I always turn up."
--ulrike@h.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:21:08 -0500
From:    Lisa Anne Prince <Moonlight@g.......>
Subject: Nick's Beast and Natalie's Attraction

Hey, Hey All :)

I know, I know, you're all moaning and wishing I'd crawl back into
lurker mode.  Just call me a compulsive replier.

I wrote:
>>Technically, it is the beast within Nick that attracts Natalie
Cassie wrote:
>The newsgroup discussion sort of identified Nat's attraction as
>the attraction mortal humans tend to feel toward "romantic
>heroes/antiheroes"

Okay, that's not my take on their relationship, of course you all
already knew that.  Why would I be replying if it were :)

(All of this is, of course, my VHO).  I see Natalie as, first and
foremost, a scientist.  To me, that is the ruling aspect of her
personality.  Scientists, by their very nature, love to solve
puzzles.  To her, Nick and his vampire are a puzzle -- and not
necessarily just the literal vampire, but the figurative one as
well.  Nick hasn't really been a vampire in the "bite humans on the
neck and drain them until they're dried up husks" for quite a long
time.  (He has the physical symptoms, but doesn't live them out, so
to speak.) However, Nick equates his vampire with all aspects,
especially the negative ones, of his personality.  His entire being
is caught up in his vampire -- it is his defining aspect.  He uses
his vampire as a crutch in many ways.  If he does something *evil,*
he has an excuse -- the vampire in him made him do it :)  I believe
it would be valid to say that Nick's vampire is, in some ways, a
manifestation of his inability to accept that he has *human*
faults.  Regardless of whether he is a vampire or a *mere* mortal,
he would still have many of these faults.  He would still make
incorrect decisions.  He would still, at times, cause others pain.
Being a cop, he might even be forced to kill someone for survival.
The thing that, IMHO, attracts Natalie is her desire to help Nick
understand himself and accept the beast that is within as something
that all people have.  The beast is not simply a vampire condition,
it is a human condition.

In this case, kill the beast and you kill the man.  Nick defines
himself through his vampire -- his angst, his remorse, his
inability to commit, his loneliness, his entire reason for being
revolves around his vampire.  Without that, what is there?  Nick
would need to be *recreated* from the bottom up.  Without the
vampire, there would be no Nick.

Hope that made sense :P

Lisa Prince -- the Befuddled Cousin
Forever Knight/Pediatric AIDS Foundation Charity Drive Organizer
Please make checks payable to the Pediatric AIDS Foundation
Send to:  Lisa Prince, PAF "Forever Knight" Group Charity,
[Address removed]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:21:26 -0500
From:    Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Children

Well, it's certainly possible that Nick could have some illigitmate
children.  We were shown in the flashback of the second season ep,
Be My Valentine, that not long after being brought across Nick went
home to see his family one last time.  The only family members of his
that we saw in this were a mother and a younger sister (she fell for
LC and LC supposedly for her).  The sister Fleur mentioned to LC that
Nick had gone to fight in the Crusades, come back, and gone to fight
again.  But Nick is also shown in the second season ep Queen of Harps
in a flashback that details some of his mortal life that he was part
of the retinue of a liege lord (I guess) sent to Wales to aid the
ruler of the area in quelling Druid heretics.  So it seems obvious
that Nick was not the eldest son in his family, yes?  (I'm not an
expert on history, so correct me if I'm wrong.)  So perhaps Nick had
an elder brother who died?

The implication was that he was a landless knight (which he could be
if he had an elder brother).  In BMV, he told Fleur that she was the
hope of the family going on (or something like that).  That implies
to me that Nick had no legitimate wife or children before being
brought across.

Or if he did, they had all died.

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:54:16 -0330
From:    Jason Ryan <ibe0018@i.......>
Subject: Re: Bloody tears?

On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Stephanie Babbitt wrote:

> Hi, folks. This is your pesky third-season newbie searching for additional
> FK info. I've read in a number of FK fanfic pieces about Nick and other
> vampires shedding drops of blood instead of tears. Is this something that's
> happened or been discussed on the show (if so, what ep?), or is it just a
> generally-accepted attribute of vampires in general? Thanks for tips.
>
> Stephanie Babbitt
> Wondering what happens if the poor vamps get a cold--talk about your
 nosebleed!
>
        I would guess that it is generally-accepted, Nick sweats blood so
why not cry blood? If you have read any of Anne Rice chronicle's she
mentions that vampires cry blood.  I would have to say that it is only
natural for them to give off blood just the same as we humans give off
water, our bodies are made up of something like 90 some-odd percent of
water, because we need water to survive, therefor vampires who need blood
should or could be about the same percent of blood as we are to water.

Jason Ryan

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:26:53 -0500
From:    A McLaughlin <Iremi@a.......>
Subject: Revealations

We have learned some things from this third season of Forever Knight. All of
us, fans, production, TPTB.
1. Syndication and network broadcasting is a bad idea. None of us realized
that it split the audience . Since ratings are viewed separately ( instead of
combined for both venues for a more accurate rating) the numbers looked bad .
Ok a show should be in syndication or network not both.
2. We've learned that you can't go home. Rod Peth and TPTB were thinking of
FK in terms of it's concept when it was on CBS late night. So they figured
they would bring that back on the air because they know that worked. It
didn't. The show and concept had moved on since then but they didn't see
this. The fans and the producers knew it because we had been following the
show all along.
3. Fans CAN have an impact on the industry. The first mail campaign convinced
the shows producers that they had fans who REALLY liked their work. Show
business people like a pat on the back just like us nameless masses. The
second mail campaign, combined with the NAPTE strike force showed just how
out of touch TPTB are. Klopovitz wasn't even aware of the group until they
showed up at NAPTE and her reaction? It wasn't pretty. Tri-Star should be
similarily ashamed for not recognizing the potentially large audience that
demanded the shows return the first time around. Fans are not just a group of
wackos, in fact they can be intellegent, well organized and determined. The
industry should take note.
4. Everyone involved in SOS-FK, whether working or lurking on various lists,
has learned more about the business of making a TV show that they ever knew
before. We have discovered how complex, petty and capricious it is. Shows
aren't cancelled or remain on the air simply because of ratings. Ego and
pride have a lot to do with it too. The Nielsens( not a big surprise) aren't
the accurate Gods of Numbers some thought. In fact, the Emperor has no
clothes.
5. Forever Knight is a damn fine show and it is made on a budget that would
astonish most people in the biz. For example a show like Highlander, which
also uses period costumes and supernatural themes has a budget of about 1.5
million per episode compared to the appox. $700,000 for FK. ( anyone correct
me if  the amounts are wrong, but the difference IS astounding).
 Even if the show is not renewed the power and knowledge gained is something
to behold and think about.  We the fans can be proud of our efforts, the
industry should wake up to the fact that they are out of touch with audience
demands and the way they have been counting viewers is inaccurate. Let's all
remember this and may the industry never be the same.
A McLaughlin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:33:51 +0200
From:    Full Name <STUHIGGINKG@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and Children

        Greetings,

This is my first posting to this list(but I've been lurking since Thanks-
giving).  Please forgive me if I make mistakes--only human, after all!

Anyway, the comment about the possibility of Nick meeting one of his
descendants reminded me of a fanfic idea I had-- What if Tracy researched
her genealogy--and found she was descended from some guy named de Brabant?

See Nick's face when he realizes--!!! ( Don't kill me for the thought--it

will probably never be written--at least not by me!!!)

                                Hiding out now,
                                        Kimby

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:09:26 -0330
From:    Jason Ryan <ibe0018@i.......>
Subject: Sorry

        This is a message for those of you who are a tad bit made with
me, I am very sorry for quoting to many lines, it has been brought to my
attention and i am very greatful it has been, I wouln't want to p*ss any
one off.  Does anyone know how to quote parts of messages.

P.S.  Sorry again!

Jason Ryan

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:45:13 -0700
From:    Alm <ulrike@h.......>
Subject: Re: New Topic--last 3rd season ep

On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Jane Snyder wrote:

> Of course, I'd like them to decide that it really won't work between them,
> have Nick take off with Janette, and Natalie go to LaCroix for "consolation".
Hmmmm.  I'd like to see Uncle's reaction to _that_.

Cousin Alm }} "I'm like a bad penny; I always turn up."
--ulrike@h.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:58:09 -0500
From:    k s gritten <kg244989@o.......>
Subject: Scams, Fuzzy-Wuzzies, FKFIC

To Laurie and those others who have been bugged by "are you scamming
me" notes--please ignore them and read one of the "you guys are so
wonderful THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU" again instead.

Re: the Warm Fuzzies faction, shouldn't they be the SOSFK'ers?
I think that makes all of us members.  MamaFuzzie, you just gained
a heck of a lot of kids :)

Regarding FKFIC,

Jackie scribbled:

> I was not aware that there is a site for fanfic discussion; the
> FKFIC list is for the fiction itself, isn't it?  <snip> I always
>thought comments must go to the authors directly?

I believe, technically, that discussion of FKFIC belongs here.
However, very little actually appears here, and the only feedback
I have gotten on my fanfic has been through personal email (hi
guys!  you are all wonderful!).  Personally, I usually try to
send email to authors whose work I enjoy (hi Apache! Jamie! Marion!),
because as an author myself I find it very disappointing to get
*no feedback whatsoever* on my own work.  Do unto others, and all
that.  Notes saying "boy I enjoyed this" or flames should, I
think, be handled privately.  However, I would love to see more
public discussion of the fanfic in general--even simply suggesting
authors is always fun, because you can only do so much cruising of the
archive before your eyes start to cross.  For example, picking up
on the "Nat and Nick need to have a long talk" thread, can anybody
suggest some good fanfic dealing with Nat actually doing this?
Or simply reflecting rationally on how much she is willing to invest
in Nick?

--kg  NatPacker!
*****************************
kg244989@o.......
If ever any beauty I did see,
I'm not gonna tell you cause then I'll go over the .sig line limit!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:12:23 -0500
From:    Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: Re: New topic?

>     What happens to Nick's 800 year old body if he does become mortal again?

I think he would age at a normal rate.  This is assuming that there is a
physical cause for his vampirism, which is admittedly a little bit of a
reach.  I mean, if whatever it is that keeps him young -- and also brings
on the  ... um ... solar restrictions -- were to be erased, then I think it
would return his body to it's normal state, and he would age normally.

Although, I suppose there's a good arguement for saying that whatever it is
that keeps him young is what is keeping him together in the first place,
and if that's gone ...

----  TJ

 Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine:  News of the Science Fiction Universe

                     http://www.cybervanguard.com
Come visit us, or write us at vanguard@p....... for sponsorship info

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:03:34 -0500
From:    Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>
Subject: moths and fanfic and kryptonite

Hi Alikhat :)

> Actually, I'm familiar with the moth example you gave here, and I believe
>you forgot a detail or two. To begin with, the change occured within a small
>space of time, evolutionarily speaking, but it did take more than one
>generation.

Actually, some moths *were* born different (black, that is) in one generation
-- they were the ones that survived to have all black moth babies.  Was it
coincidence?  Perhaps they would've been born black anyway, but then I've
never stopped a moth to ask. ;)

Fanfic stuff:

Okay maybe some listly folk can help me.  I've been writing, shall we say
*adult material* (as well as other stuff), professionally for about a year
now and just wrote my first fanfic ever.  It's suitable *only* for jadfe,
BTW.  But here's my prob: The people who've read it said it doesn't read like
fanfic.  Help!  I want to understand!  Are there any other fanfic authors who
had the same problem and could clew me in?  (Sorry, couldn't resist!)  I've
read some fanfic and I can see that it's different, but I don't know what to
do.  Anyways, please email me privately. :)

By the by, for the person who asked if hyenas could be considered more
evolutionarily advanced because if a human and a hyena were in the same room
the hyena would survive: Hyenas are carrion eaters.  They eat dead stuff.
 Jackals on the other hand...  No but seriously, I meant a room in the
physical and metaphysical sense -- vampires out-do us in every regard.  Why
else do you think we *humans* prefer vampires who implode in the sun?  Why do
you think humans came up with the myth that vampires can be killed by such
simple household objects as garlic, crosses, and sunlight?  Heck, anyone can
grab a hold of a stick! ;)  We human folks needed vampires to have a
weakness.  Superman has his kryptonite -- Vampires have sunlight.

Wicked Cousin Tippi
Obligatory Butt Quote: "Butt!"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:13:30 -0600
From:    Kayla Clark <katygale@i.......>
Subject: Glad you stayed, Cassie

Damn girl, when you decide to create a topic you pull out all the stops!!
My mind is reeling from your "paper" on vampirism.  There's a dissertation
to be gotten out of that somehow.  Not to mention months worth of discussion
on the list.

One of the things I thought of while reading your post was "The Incredible
Hulk."  And, now that I think about it, Batman.  Given there are beaucoup
differences, but the three characters (Hulk, Batman and Nick) use their
special abilities for good and their secret side is frightening.

I am really looking forward to reading more on this thread!
Cousin Kayla

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:13:32 -0600
From:    Kayla Clark <katygale@i.......>
Subject: Unwellness Love & Nick's Wants

Lynn McAlpine asked:
>Who else on the list thinks Nat has been b****y
>this season because she has finally figured out
>(at least subconsciously) she is in a losing situation.

I thought the writers were just finally letting her speak up.  There were so
many times in previous episodes that she needed to "let Nick have it."

However, I do believe that Nat "is in a losing situation."  In fact, I
believe that Nick is using her.  If he *really* didn't want to be a vampire
anymore, then (like Amanda in the ST:TNG episode, "True Q") he must cease
using his special abilities.  I realize this would make for a boring show,
so I don't expect it to happen ;-)

Although he uses his vampiric abilities for good things, the fact that he
uses them means that he consistently denies his stated wish to be
mortal/human (because he almost certainly won't have them if/when he becomes
mortal/human).

What I'm thinking is that there are two main parts to Nick's wishes, one
which he addresses and one which he doesn't.  First, he has decided that
killing humans for him to live is wrong, therefore he doesn't do it.
Second, he has decided that he wants to be human, but he still lives like a
vampire (drinks blood, flies).  The fact that he has the willpower to give
up human blood indicates that he has the willpower to take Nat's treatments,
but he only does so irregularly.  I don't think he truly wants to be human.
'Course, I'm a Cousin <BEG>

Cousin Kayla ;-)=

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:13:34 -0600
From:    Kayla Clark <katygale@i.......>
Subject: Another USA MO; Fanfic Challenge

One of my English teachers would write, "MO," on our papers where we'd
Missed an Opportunity to expand on some essential topic.

Leah (in her asbestos jammies) said:
>Seriously, though, if I were a network like USA last fall,
>and wanted to add any character to the show, I would have
>considered a strong mortal RIVAL for Natalie's attention,
>to keep things interesting...not this Tracy/Vachon

I'd like to add that American Gothic has done this already in the first
season - giving the female antagonist a male protagonist to set up tension
between her and the male antagonist (get that? hee hee).  The teacher has
turned the sheriff down for the CDC guy; and I found myself whooping and
laughing (evilly) at the situation.

Back to FK, it could be that, like Wicked Cousin Tippi (and others) have said:
>Nat needs to be needed.  *But* she also doesn't seem to like
>to deal with living people (that's why, IMO, she deals with
>corpses instead).  So what better way to mix her two driving
>character traits but to *be needed by a nonliving person*?
>Nick'll always need her.  It's a perfect match.

So . . . FK vampires (with a full tummy) could hang out with commit-phobic
mortals.  I knew FK was about a dysfunctional family, but this is getting
*really* weird.  ;-)=

BTW, if you haven't checked American Gothic out yet, you're missing a great
time.  It is similar to FK in that the fight of good vs evil is prominent.

In fact, I have a fanfic challenge.  What would the meeting of LaCroix and
Buck be like?

Cousin Kayla
katygale@i.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:13:36 -0600
From:    Kayla Clark <katygale@i.......>
Subject: Mass Murderers?

Hi Marina!

You can have a Knightie flag and I'll take a Cousin one (both wooden spiked
ones) ;-)=

>I think the mass murder thing is a point of view. If you look at it that
>way, Duncan MacLeod is a mass murderer too. I mean, he goes around cutting

IMHO, he is or they are, mass murderers.  Duncan often *must* kill to live,
but he often *chooses* to kill (so that others may live).  Judged by
human/mortal standards, both men are guilty of ignoring law and killing when
they feel like it.

And, both men feel strongly about the killing they have done.  'Course Nick
is all angsty about it and feels guilty.

The fact that FK vamps see us (mortal/humans) as simply food doesn't change
the fact that we see them as mass murderers.  It depends on whose point of
view you have.

And, btw, I would probably go with being a vampire.  The FK or C.Golden type.

Cousin Kayla

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:04:00 PT
From:    Tami Lafrank <tamilyn.lafrank@a.......>
Subject: Re: it's a serious discussion! :

Alikhat said:
        "Well, if it's a matter of survival of the *chicest*, (snip)
That's a battle that the Raven/ettes would win hands down, because to us,
nothing is worth doing if it's not done with style.  Right, Tami, Susan G.????
                                The Magister
                                Well-dressed Raven
-----my reply-----------------------------------------------------
Hear Hear O ravenous mage. :)

Tami LaFrank                 : TCL58@a....... or TCL20@a.......
Forever Faithful Ravenette   : King Arthur ran the first (K)Night club.
The Raven Health Spa         : Never play Leapfrog with a Unicorn.
"Dying to prolong your life" : Celibacy is not Hereditary.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:19:39 -0800
From:    Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......>
Subject: Publicity

As some of you already know, I've written an article for an academic
journal that has both hardcopy and web distribution.  Hardcopies shipped
yesterday...if you're in New York City, check St. Marks and The Strand
some time in the next week for it.  In Toronto, check the University
Bookstores at York and University of Toronto.  In New Zealand...really,
check Unity Books in Aukland and Wellington and in Israel, Hebrew
University English Dept.  The journal is called "Bad Subjects."  And since
I put together the article, the New Zealand editor has been brought
across.  I love the internet!

If you have access to the web, check it out:
http://english.hss.cmu.edu/BS/24/hoffman.html

If you don't have access to the web and want to read it anyway, let me
know and I'll send it on.  It's long, so unless there's sufficient demand
for it, I'm not going to post it to the list.

Cynthia
choff@v.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:52:41 -0500
From:    Leah Rosenthal <Bizarro7@a.......>
Subject: Re: Vampires: Predators or Monsters?

In a message dated 96-02-06 22:24:11 EST, Jamie writes:
>
>And one might do well to remember that there are traditions of faith that
>predate the "judeo/christian" ethic by many years, that offer no blanket
>condemnation... and that the suggestion that said j/c ethic is in some way
>more "right" than these more ancient traditions is one that many of us find
>offensive.
>
>Which is why we really do try to avoid these religion-based arguments, even
>though the discussion of vampirism virtually begs such debates...

Boy, was that point ever missed.  As an avowed athiest, I was not condoning
OR preaching judeo/christian ethics in my posting.  It's pretty plain that I
was merely explaining the j/c tradition of condemnation AGAINST vampires, and
why folks from that background and culture often regard vampires as
inherently evil.  I was not embracing that viewpoint myself, simply
responding to the discussion as put forth by others on the list.  I am not a
booster for j/c tradition, nor do I give it any more wieght than any other
faith, ancient or modern.

Furthermore, I've never seen any previous cautions put against the mention or
discussion of religion as it relates to vampires on this list.  If
individuals are to be singled out for bringing up sensitive religious topics,
we would have to be a little more even-handed in blocking out the topic more
comprehensively to avoid offending anyone.  And quite frankly, if you are
devoutly religious in the traditional sense, this isn't exactly the
appropriate list to be subscribed to in the first place.

Leah

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:54:50 -0600
From:    Sharon Joy <SJoy@u.......>
Subject: Re: Why superhuman folk hold such appeal

I posted this once on the newsgroup and got some interesting reactions.
But, we're all *family* here and I guess I can come out of the closet. I'm
sure y'all have heard weirder....

I've always been fascinated with the "superhuman in secret" hero story.
Starman, Superman, etc. etc.  But the reason why it fascinates me so, is
because I feel that we all contain superhuman powers.  Myths tend to
exaggerate, or bring the hidden out.  Obviously on this material plane, I
can't hoist my body up and fly away.  (Splat) But, I believe, we certainly
can do that on other levels or planes of being.  Consider how, in the
middle of the day, we can become so involved in a thought (flashback??)
that we really are in another place.  How about being so touched by a piece
of music or art that we literally are transported to another place.
Reality is relative.

The vampire myth particulary intrigues me.  It is a personification of the
integrated dual nature of man (woman).  The vampire's very existence is
based on the taking of life - or at least the integration of the life force
of another into the vampire's body.  This is symbolized in the mythology of
all great religions and mythology bases.  There is a constant movement of
the universe which includes building up, tearing down and evolution to a
new level.  Life and death become one.  Without the death of cells, there
is no new growth.  The metaphor is endless.

I also enjoy the personification of the integration of good and evil.
Without getting into a big discussion of good and evil, I guess I feel that
we contain all within ourselves.  We contain many energies and tendencies
and it is up to us to balance them and use them for good.  The constant
play between strength of a warrior and strength of compassion is manifested
in our daily lives.  The constant play between our intellect and our
intuition is also manifested in our daily lives. (Right brain or left
brain?  I'll take both, thank you) I believe that there is a place and
function for all of these tendencies or energies and we must learn to
understand them and use them for the advancement of the world, never for
personal gain, or that would set things off balance.

The FK vampires are so beautifully crafted that we can see their struggles.
We can empathize with them and enjoy LC's evilness and Nick's struggling.
We can identify with either and both.  That's what makes it such an
intriguing legend.

Superhuman stuff --- Hmmmm.  I think I'll end right here.

Oh yes, all of the above may be true or not true.  I'm open for private
email if anyone wants to go further.  If not, that's OK.

BTW, I *like* discussing hair and fantasy calendars, too.

Sharon J

--------Sharon Joy -  A Forever Knightie -  SJoy@u.......
          Come in 81 Kilo.  We've got a show to save!
Go here:  http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:54:57 -0800
From:    Dianne Therese DeSha <desha@b.......>
Subject: .sig request???

Hi, just thought I'd drop a quick note to ask that people throw their
email address (at least) in their .sig at the end of a post.

Yes, newbies, I'm one of those old fogies with an antique mailer that
won't let me see your address unless you put it _in_ the post.  Even
DUALHDR just gives me the list address as the sender (twice).

It's not the end of the world, I realize, but it is appreciated.  Many
times recently I've gone to answer someone's question private email and
been unable to do so without sending it to the whole list.  Give me and
my poor old broken-down mailer a break and let us all know who you are,
please? :-)

Dianne
You want acronyms? O.K., Have I got acronyms for you! <vwg> :

Dianne la Mercenaire... -*- <moonlight@c.......>
B.A., M.A., PBK, Rev., Merc, Hon. N&Nper, FoFoD, J.A.M.I.E.
FK-LPL, FoFK, NATPE 7, NTSSSF, GSA, CIT WGC, X-Phile, Trekker
HP of the DNRC, Felinophile, WSG, Dn'tTellMeU.R.StllRdngThs??? :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:58:03 -0500
From:    Bobbie Williams <UserKnight@a.......>
Subject: FK on WPGH, Pittsburgh

Warning: rather lengthy post to follow!!

I just thought I'd pass on my contact with the Director of Programming at our
local FOX affiliate in Pittsburgh, WPGH.  They annually throw a promotional
weekend called "FOX FEST" at a local mall.  So I thought this might be a
perfect opportunity to pass out some flyers.  I called ahead of time, in
order to get their blessing (and not get kicked out of the mall).  I
initially spoke with a special events person and was eventually passed on
until I got to the Director of Programming (Terry Caywood--whose name BTW,
appears on the flyer).  He was very nice to me ("I got all of your letters")
and I tried to impress on him that no, I'm not a lunatic, just a dedicated
fan.  At any rate, I did not get permission to pass out flyers, but he did
give me a piece of advice.  Apparently he considers receiving a lot of
letters an "annoyance," and it does not do any good to write to the
affiliates as they can not make the decision as to whether FK is renewed or
not.  I tried to explain to him that we just wanted to be sure that our
affiliates at least ask TriStar for the program in the Fall.  He suggested we
concentrate on TriStar as they are the people with the final word.  (I told
him we were well aware of that.)  Also, as this "FOX FEST" is a family
oriented event, he did not think it would be appropriate to promote a show
that was "young adult oriented" (if he only knew how old I was!!!).  He
suggested we concentrate on sci-fi cons, etc., and I told him we were already
doing that.  Finally, I asked how FK was doing, ratings-wise.  He said it
wasn't doing any better on Sat. nights at 10:00 p.m. than the show it
replaced (he said what it was, but I don't remember), but it had only been on
for two weeks and he expected the ratings to get better.  He also said it
will definitely stay on until September (at least). I then asked about the
rumor that FK had already been renewed.  He said he just spoke with the
TriStar rep last week, and he/she didn't mention it.  But he did assure me
that if he heard anything, he would give me a call.  My impression of the
whole conversation was:  a)  he has inquired about renewing Forever Knight
and will ask TriStar again (if only to get me off of his back) and b) writing
those letters must've done some good, because he definitely knew my name.
 So, while this is not the most encouraging news, at least we are making a
difference.
Keep fighting the good fight!!
Forever a Knightie,
Bobbie
UserKnight @ a.......
"Out of the spirit, into the flesh/The animal heartbeat in the chest
The naked desire/The appetite/But you remember the light"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:57:51 -0500
From:    Bobbie Williams <UserKnight@a.......>
Subject: Nick's addiction

Can anyone tell me when Nick gave up drinking human blood for the bovine
variety?  I seem to think it was since he met Nat, and not before.  Any
ideas??
Forever a Knightie
Bobbie
UserKnight@a.......
"Out of the spirit, into the flesh/The animal heartbeat in the chest
The naked desire/The appetite/But you remember the light"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:21:01 -0500
From:    Ken Hart <Ken888888@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nick as a mortal: Minority view

Jane Synder says:
> But why does Nick have to be mortal to redeem his soul?  I don't believe
> that there is anything innately evil about simply being a vampire. Vampires
> as much as humans have the ability to be both good and evil and all shades
> in between.

Ah, YOU may be believe that and I may believe that, but *Nick* clearly
believes that vampires are, by nature, Evil. Based on his comments in "Near
Death" and elsewhere, he feels his soul is tainted. He may believe that
becoming mortal is his best (only?) chance at salvation. While he can
continue to do good works as a vampire, the vampire's hunger for blood (or,
if you will, its "evil nature") will continue to slow him down, causing one
setback for every two victories. (If so, the events in "Sons of Belial" must
have severely shaken him.)

I agree with Lisa and Sandra that Nick *does* want to become mortal again.
And to those say a mortal Nick will be dead in a week: C'mon, people! All
puns aside, Nick is NOT stupid: If he becomes mortal again, he'll quit the
police force! As Sandra pointed out, Nick has had many occupations over the
years that are about as dangerous as crossing the street.

Will he miss the ability to fly? Probably. Will he miss his strength and
speed? Maybe. BUT will he be able to relax in a green field on a sunny day?
Yep! And will he have Natalie at his side? Most likely! Will he be able to
eat a pepperoni pizza? Yes! Sounds like a good deal to me. <g>

He wants mortality, make no mistake. Unfortunately, immortal beings seem to
get a bit lazy and feel they have "all the time in the world." Nick doesn't
appear to have a great sense of urgency about this, and I think this
difference in attitude is starting to affect his relationship with Nat.

Ken Hart, Raven  /  Ken888888@a.......  /  http://www.xensei.com/users/khart
LaCroix: "'A father provides love, discipline, guidance, protection, and
support' -- That's not bad."
Nick: "He left out freedom."   LaCroix: "So would I."

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:29:15 -0800
From:    [Name removed by request]
Subject: Re: Half Vampires????

>On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, TRACI ATCHISON wrote:

>>brought across part of the way. But what would happen if say, by
>>accident a women was brought across, while she was with child. Would
>>the child be born half vampire?  Full vampire? Would it live at all??

   Oh, that's *such* a good question. i can only speculate, 'cause they
haven't given us the ep yet. (and i will not refer to _Lost Souls_ for this
:) i'd refer to other listmembers' comments if i could see them but, ah, the
joys of willful university servers is forcing me to just put what i think
and pray that it hasn't already been said ad nauseum.

   It's possible the child would be born a Hunter, the closest thing i
remember to a half-vampire in FK. But i'm thinking that the kid would be
aborted, being foreign to the newly-turned woman. All you intelligent people
out there: the fetus and mother don't exchange straight blood, do they? i
really can't remember. i have this nagging notion that only teeny-weeny
nutrient bits pass through placential walls and down that cord. But i really
don't remember. The cord looks big enough for pumping blood but i thought
those veins twisting about were to nourish the placentia itself.

   Well, back to the point of this, if the mother and child don't exchange
blood, i'd guess the kid wouldn't be turned. Sandra suggested that the
mother could stay forever pregnant and that sounds really plausible to me
too. Her body would be frozen... but would the child die in there or be fed
on the nutrients from victims' blood? Hm. And she could have a successful
surgical abortion (provided her body didn't react as if it were a threat, to
have something removed which was there to being with) but she'd have swollen
ankles and extra weight forever, wouldn't she? (and cravings for victims
who've just eaten pickles and ice cream :)

   Wait, now i'm thinking (uh oh)... how would vampire bodies react to
plastic surgery? We know that tattoos would just be absorbed or disappear
and bullets, well, would just sit there, i guess. But what about fat
removal? An operated nose could revert to its old position but it would
probably be distorted from the (say) cartiliage removed, right? Hm, but,
getting back to the pregnancy thing, what if the vampire... thingywhatever,
saw the pregnancy as a disease and "healed" itself by aborting the child
(i'm thinking about Elizabeth, Nick's kid from ican'trememberwhatep). It
probably wouldn't consider it a disease, the fetus isn't foreign, i guess.
But would that mean that i'd have acne forever, since it isn't virally
produced? Heavens to Betsy. i'd have these hormones forever frozen?? Sheesh.
i'll have to pray i'm in top cosmetic condition when a generous vampire
happens along.

   Wait a minuet. Elizabeth had no scars? Or were they healed? Then while
i'll have Forever Acne, i'll have no scars? Ew. This is getting too far off
the appropriate track...

[Name removed by request],
How can you trust someone who bleeds for seven days and doesn't die? - BGW

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:34:50 -0500
From:    Risha <jorgenrb@s.......>
Subject: Humans yummy!

  Something that somebody put in one of their posts (one of the
evolutionary posts) sparked a sudden thought.  Why _do_ vampires drink
the blood of humans?  Sure, we all know that they taste better then cow,
but it seems to be something more than that, i.e. the 'addiction' that
Nick seems to have.  It appears to be something shared by all vampires,
so there must be a reason behind it, biologically. (It occured to me to
wonder about cultural causes, but we have seen new vampires, like
Richard, with an uncontrollable need for the stuff. Or _could_ it be just
that Richard assumed, with his normal human background of vampire apocryphal
lore, that vampire=human blood? But I digress.) And yet, we haven't yet
seen a vampire starve to death from a lack of human blood.
  What would make human blood different from any other animal's?  Is
there a protein, chemical, etc., available from us that can't be obtained
any other way?  Or is there a biological component involved at all?

Risha.
jorgenrb@s.......

I am not a vegetarian because I love animals;
          I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.
                                                    --A. Whitney Brown.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:41:32 -0500
From:    Rebecca Burns <r.burns@g.......>
Subject: Re: Tattoo permanence

On Wed  7-Feb-1996  6:08p, Tami Lafrank wrote:
TL> To quote the tattoo artist doing Janette in a prior season ep:
TL> 'But we'll have to start over tomorrow'. To which she replied,
TL> 'Well that's the fun of it, no'.
TL> Sorry, quoting from memory. And no I don't remember which ep and which
TL> season. Sorry


    The ep is called Faithful Followers from season 2 (the only ep I don't
have on tape)

Becky

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:42:53 -0500
From:    Bobbie Williams <UserKnight@a.......>
Subject: No butts, no chests

Forget Ger's butt and chest--did anyone get a look at his hands (I've always
said you can tell a man by his hands!!)  They're gorgeous!!  Geez, this is
getting sick!!
Forever a Knightie
Bobbie
UserKnight@a.......
 "Out of the spirit, into the flesh/The animal heartbeat in the chest
The naked desire/The appetite/But you remember the light"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:52:23 -0800
From:    Wendy Marie Christensen <wendy@i.......>
Subject: GVP no spoiler.

Ahhh I went to watch my tape with GVP on it and I discovered that I had
neglected to turn the timer on... my question is.....Is USA planing on
showing it?

Love,                         \|/
Wendy Marie                  |o o|
                   -------ooO~(_)~Ooo------
                  wendy@i.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:53:20 -0500
From:    Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>
Subject: Re: Bloody tears?

Stephanie Babbitt queried:

>I've read in a number of FK fanfic pieces about Nick and other
>vampires shedding drops of blood instead of tears. Is this something that's
>happened or been discussed on the show (if so, what ep?), or is it just a
>generally-accepted attribute of vampires in general? Thanks for tips.

Now this was something I have *never* understood.  I didn't understand it
when I read The Vampire Lestat for the first time, and I still don't
understand it.  Why do vampires sweat blood and cry blood?  Humans don't
sweat milkshakes and cry Asti Spumanti!  (Although I was told at a FK party
recently that someone once sweated chocolate...)

Wicked Cousin Tippi, whose Texas license plate starts with BMV!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:53:19 -0500
From:    Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>
Subject: Les Enfants (and tattoos)

Regarding kids:

I think when everyone on the list was talking about Nick's "children", they
were talking about his *vampire* children. :)  His brood, if you will.

Regarding vampires and tattoos:

Funny you should ask, but the novel I'm writing deals with this very subject!
 Honest!  It puzzled me when that tat artist told Janette he'd have to start
all over.  I guess it means that by sundown the next day it would be gone?
 Doesn't make sense to me -- I mean, if tats disappear in one day, that would
imply vampires heal overnight.  Why then doesn't their hair grow back every
day?  Can you imagine the *utter horror* of having to shave your legs *every*
day for all eternity!?  In Blood and Ink (my book: shameless plug), the
vampires heal very quickly, but not overnight.  When one vampire gets a
tattoo, she finds out that it lasts for a couple of weeks and then starts to
fade.

Wicked Cousin Tippi

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Feb 1996 01:08:15 GMT
From:    Kyle Watkins <spyder_x@u.......>
Subject: Re: No butts, no chests

I'll say!  Heck, I, for one have NO interest in Ger's whatever at all!
Can't we all be more sensitive and talk about something more interesting
like, say...Janette or Urs? =)

- Kyle

Cousin, Mercenary Hunter, and The Only One who has *never* seen any first
season eps.

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 7 Feb 1996 - Special issue
***************************************************


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