FORKNI-L
Digest - 6 Feb 1996 - Special issue
Tue, 6 Feb 1996
There are 32 messages totalling 1018 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. A Fascinating New Topic (2)
2. Nick & mortality
3. unsubscribe me please (2)
4. FK in DC (Feb.10)
5. Half Vampire (2)
6. ***Local Syndie Sales Rep Said, "Yes" to 4th Season Renewal
7. New Lists...the Perfect List...the..... (2)
8. Natalie's quandry (3)
9. Something to wonder about
10. Without a Clew
11. Without a Clew & YKYB...
12. Half Vampires???
13. A topic other than butts and calendars (2)
14. Advice, please?
15. Local cancellation crisis
16. would Nick really like being mortal
17. Natalie`s quandr
18. ReviewZine/medtrek
19. Another fascinating Topic Hi Cassie:-)
20. PSA: Dian(n)es, Dian(n)es everywhere...
21. GERBUTT-L
22. Fanfic help
23. Nick - mortality and redemption
24. There can't be more lists
25. Announcement: free software to organize notes, ideas about "good
vampires."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:50:10 -0500
From: "Mark L. Elliott" <01mlelliott@b.......>
Subject: Re: A Fascinating New Topic
Sounds like M'lady Cassie has just thrown out so many new ideas for fan fic
that people won't have to come up with ideas of their own for quite some time.
BRAVO CASSIE!!!!
--said in my best Gomez Addams voice
Ravenously yourss
The Magister
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:58:24 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@f.......>
Subject: Nick & mortality
To give my NSHO regarding the question that someone posted about whether
Nick would enjoy mortality if he got it, I have to say I don't think so. Oh,
he would be deliriously happy for a while... he'd go out in the sun, eat
souvlaki just to know what it tastes like, go to church probably, make
Natalie very happy... But I think then he would start to miss LaCroix,
Janette and other vampires. Not being able to fly, put the whammy on people
and use vampire speed would get to him eventually. I've read a couple of
stories where Nick gets shot basically the day after he comes back over, but
I don't think he would - he is practised at getting out of the way - if only
so that he doesn't have to explain bullet holes in his clothes. I think that
eventually mortality would begin to pall and he'd realise that it isn't all
it's cracked up to be. Nick put mortality (and mortals) on such a high
pedestal that the reality can never meet his expectations.
I'm one of the Knighties who thinks Nick should just accept his vampire
nature and get on with his life. (And the show needn't end because of it -
he could still be a cop and solve cases using his vampiric powers.) I
suppose I feel this way because I want Nick to be happy. I don't think that
being mortal would make him happy. I think self-acceptance would. I would
like Nick to drink human blood (it's not like he has to go round killing
people for it anymore, after all), find a female vamp (if Janette isn't
availble) or just stop dawdling and bring Natalie across. Oh - and take that
@#$&* shirt off!!!
Does this make me - what did Marcia call it - a "Dark Knightie"?
- Marina.
\\ "And tell me if you want to catch that feeling of redemption; //
// That feeling of redemption don't do much for me." - Tanita Tikaram \\
\\========Marina Bailey========tmar@f.......========Knightie========= //
... Janeway has a dog and a significant other, not some damn fish!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:04:51 -0400
From: "Lisa Schenk, M.A., N.C.C." <LKSCHENK@i.......>
Subject: unsubscribe me please
Too much e-mail to sort through. Can't get to messages from personal friends
for all the other stuff. Please unsubscribe lkschenk@i........ My name is
Lisa Schenk, M.A., N.C.C. Thank you very much. I am a big fan of Forever
Knight but this listserve has too much silly stuff on it. No time for this.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:04:19 EST
From: MS SHIRLEY A CLINE <VUYX56A@p.......>
Subject: FK in DC (Feb.10)
Okay, according to The Wash. Post's television program, WB50 will
be moving FK *again*, this time to 10pm. Fortunately, a sports event is
not airing before it, so we should get to see it in it's entirety.
Anyone who'd like to comment, compliment, or complain to 50, e-
mail me and I'll send you their address. I've written them *five* times
since the end of December and haven't heard back from them yet, but as
Apache said; they are aware of us. So get out those pens and write!
Cousin Shirl <vuyx56a@p.......>
////"Clouds and eclipses, stain the moon and the sun. And history reeks,
of the wrongs we have done."//--"Consider Me Gone" by Sting////
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:16:18 -0700
From: Corvia Noctis <jln8817@s.......>
Subject: Re: Half Vampire
Jason Ryan talked about a half-vampire vampire hunter and it reminded me
a lot of the Japanese Animae "Vampire Hunter D"
If D ever showed up in the FK universe I think I would be very scared for
our favorite vamps.
Corvia
To: Jethro Tull, Ranma 1/2, Sarah McLachlan, Vamps and ALL of the
Night's creatures under the Goddess's Crescent Moon....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:17:16 -0500
From: Annmarie McKee-Fitzgerald <mickey@c.......>
Subject: Re: ***Local Syndie Sales Rep Said, "Yes" to 4th Season Renewal
Hi,
Kayla when I saw your post I placed a call to Fox 5 in NYC and I spoke
to Sarah in Programming. As far as she knows a decision has not been made
yet,but it should be made in a week or two and she was *very* nice adnd
she asked that I call back then.
She also said that calls etc had eased up..hmmm..sounded like she was
happy about the calls easing,but maybe us NYC/NJ/CT area residents should
send a few more letters. I'm sending off a "thank you" to her now.
FOREVER KNIGHT needs YOUR HELP! Visit the Save Forever Knight Homepage for
more information http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
WRITE to YOUR LOCAL AFFILIATE! Your letter counts LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD!
Send letters to TriStar and to USA E-mail me or visit the homepage!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:22:29 -0500
From: Carla Pickering <carlap@e.......>
Subject: New Lists...the Perfect List...the.....
If a new list is started to remedy a small glitch--pretty soon we would each
have a list of our own (?) and be talking to ourselves (?)--obviously an
exageration, but. There are so MANY newbies on this list, and being a
newbie makes you feel a tad intimidated about starting a discussion --
but--I'm also involved with an on-line journal for a class this semester,
and am finding the best way to have discussions about things *I* want to
talk about, is to start them!! That is a better first step to having the
kind of discussions you want than quitting the list!! (no criticism
intended). It is also hard for newbies because we are sponging in as many
season 1 and 2 episodes as we can get our hands on, but we obviously haven't
been watching regularly for years--or we would not *be* newbies!! (New to
the list but seasoned at staying up until 1:35 a.m. every week to watch the
Knight is *not* what I call a newbie. Newbie is new to the list AND new to
regular, addictive, fanatic, regular watching of our show.)............
But I intend--as time allows--to ask questions about characters and actors
and about shows that fall in the safe, non-spoiler area....I'm just too
impressed with the people on this list to get off it. P.S.--I've got some
REALLY attrocious poetry to post whenever I remember to bring it in to
work....that does go here, doesn't it??
Carla/Crowhawwk at "Caer Kadau y Gi"
in Exeter, Rhode Island
A Recently Realized Ravenette
and Closet Cousine with Knightly tendencies
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:23:58 -0500
From: Allison Percy <percy91@w.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie's quandry
Warning -- kinda long, preachy defense of Nick enclosed. Hit the delete
key if this will drive you crazy!
Annmarie McKee-Fitzgerald <mickey@c.......> said:
> I think Nat is getting fed
> up and who could blame her? This guy is a loser! (Ducking the Knighties)
OK, I promised Sandra Gray that at some point I would jump into the fray
to help defend Our Boy. You're gonna have to do some serious ducking to
avoid this Knightie!
What the heck does Natalie want from Nick? In the first season ("Only
the Lonely"), she is hurt when Nick's birthday card to her just says
"with affection." She clearly wanted something more. She's also clearly
hurt when Nick says he's glad she's seeing other people. (He obviously
doesn't mean it, but it took a lot for him to say it!)
Yeah, sometimes Nick gets so wrapped up in self-pity that he needs a kick
in the shins. Heck, even I get so wrapped up in self-pity at times that I
need a kick in the shins. (Cousins, Natpackers, kick away!) Nick has been
through a lot of false hopes in his 800 years. He's had dreams dashed.
He's given up on himself more times that even he could count. If she
really wants to help him, she needs to do more than take blood samples and
make him drink protein shakes. Actually, Nat helps Nick more with her
talk and her emotional support than with anything else. She reminds Nick
that he should keep trying. She tells him that he's worthy. It's what a
friend (or even a frustrated love interest) does! No, she doesn't *owe*
it to him. But when she tells Nick that she would be hurt if he walked
into the sun or otherwise died (I think she's done this a couple of times,
"Last Act" for one), I think that makes a difference for him.
> What can I say, I'm a Cousin with a bit of Vaquera thrown in there for
> good looks. At least with these two guys you know where you stand. The
> character of Nick however has always struck me as being very selfish and
> immature.
I know other people have had this impression, too, but I think it's a
misreading of the character. He has had *real* problems with self-control
in the past. I'm sure some of this is related to the vampire cravings,
but perhaps some of it is just his personality. The problem (as I see it,
anyway) is that he has spent hundreds of years convinced of his own
damnation, unsure even of whether there is any meaning to the concepts of
"good" and "evil." Eventually he apparently decided that there *was* such
a thing as "good." He switched to hunting only criminals for a while,
until he found it too difficult to deal with the hypocrisy of making the
judgment between who was good and who was evil. (Thanks to LaCroix, who
seemed to be trying to achieve something else in the ballerina and French
Resistance flashbacks but apparently pushed Nick into giving up chomping
on humans entirely.)
How would anyone feel if they decided that "good" does exist, and firmly
believed that they had spent hundreds of years doing "evil." You'd be
pretty morose most of the time, too. Heck, most of us would take that
walk into the sun. But Nick (sometimes) believes that there is some way he
can atone for his sins. Nat is the one person who shares this hope for
him, who reinforces his belief that he can redeem himself.
> she [Nat] should just get on with her life and stop
> waiting for him. If I were a part of this "virtual world" and she was a
> friend of mine I'd tell her to maintain the friendship but get on with a
> life!
People who think Nat should give up on Nick should realize that this
would destroy an essential balance in the show. Yeah, it would be nice
if Nick didn't need someone to push him to continue his quest for
mortality and redemption. But then, it makes a better story to have his
character torn between two forces (represented by two characters -- Nat
and LaCroix).
* Allison Percy, a perky Knightie percy91@w....... *
* __o Pedal for Forever Knight & for a worthy charity! *
* _`\<,_ Contact me to pledge support or join the ride. For info *
* (*)/ (*) see http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/FKtour.html *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:57:28 -0330
From: Jason Ryan <ibe0018@i.......>
Subject: Re: Half Vampire
On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Corvia Noctis wrote:
> Jason Ryan talked about a half-vampire vampire hunter and it reminded me
> a lot of the Japanese Animae "Vampire Hunter D"
> If D ever showed up in the FK universe I think I would be very scared for
> our favorite vamps.
>
> Corvia
>
> To: Jethro Tull, Ranma 1/2, Sarah McLachlan, Vamps and ALL of the
> Night's creatures under the Goddess's Crescent Moon....
>
Where would i be albe to find information on this "Vampire Hunter
D" it sounds interesting.
Jason Ryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:29:18 -0500
From: "Mark L. Elliott" <01mlelliott@b.......>
Subject: Re: Something to wonder about
A little fanfic anyone??? Ok, ok, I know. Maybe I should write some
myself and not just expect everyone else to do it.
<going back to semi-lurker mode>
Ravenously yours,
The Magister
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:15:53 -0600
From: Perri Smith <perridox@i.......>
Subject: Re: Without a Clew
On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Jamie Melody Randell wrote:
> On Feb 05, 1996 18:26:41, 'Dianne Therese DeSha <desha@m.......>'
> wrote:
>
> >(And that reminds me: who *did* end up with LC's pet goldfish, *Spike*,
> >at the end of the last War anyway? I know Deb and I _wanted_ to take
> >him with us to Bermuda for a vacation, the poor thing... :-)))
>
> Maybe Spike got eaten by Ralph, the Virtual Cat?
I know the Knighties wound up with *a* goldfish (complete with tape of
LaCroix speaking babytalk at it) --- but I recall some controversy at the
time as to whether it was actually Spike or a ringer.
Perri
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perri <perridox@i.......>
Lady of the Knight "We don't *want* a new one!
SAVE THE KNIGHT! - e-mail me for info We like *that* one!"
on how to save 'Forever Knight'!
----------------http://www.intex.net/~perridox/perri.html----------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:42:57 -0800
From: Dianne Therese DeSha <desha@b.......>
Subject: Re: Without a Clew & YKYB...
Jamie speculates:
> Maybe Spike got eaten by Ralph, the Virtual Cat?
No, dear. Ralph wasn't virtual... he was just Sydney's stunt double! :-)
and...
YKYBW*T*MFKW...
...you hear a jazzy rendition of the Jets' song (from West Side Story)
on the radio and suddenly have this vision of our favorite vamps doing
it (choreography and all)...
<When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way,
From your first cigarette to your last dying day...>
It's a horrible image...
<You're never alone, you're never disconnected...>
Truly frightening, trust me!
<You're home with your own, when company's expected
You're well-protected!>
And yet... there's no escaping!!!
<Here come the Jets like a bat out of hell,
Someone gets in our way, someone don't do so well!>
<*whimper*>
Dianne
The No-Longer-Mad Ex-Digester <g> -*- NATPE Strikeforce Survivor
***"We ARE War 6!" -- The Magnificent Seven :-)***
Dianne la Mercenaire... -*- <moonlight@c.......> -*- FoFoD
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:57:59 -0500
From: Leah Rosenthal <Bizarro7@a.......>
Subject: Re: Half Vampires???
Speaking of the subject, maybe someone who is a horror flick afficionado can
come up with the trivia answer for this one. A long, long, time ago, I seem
to remember viewing an unbelievably cheap film (done in the 60's or 70's, I
think) about a vampire who rapes a young woman (in a grave, no less). The
balance of the film takes place years later, and involves the woman's grown
son, who turns out to be the son of the vampire, who is naturally hellbent on
vengence on his bloodsucking dad. The acting was so bad that this travesty
branded itself into my brain, but the recent discussion of this topic has me
a bit curious to know the title. Does anyone know?
Enquiring minds with nothing better to do...
Leah
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:57:57 -0500
From: Leah Rosenthal <Bizarro7@a.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie's quandry
I think Lynn has hit it on the nose with regard to Nick's "relationship" with
her and how good or bad it might be for her, as a normal human being. We
have to consider that Natalie isn't in the most 'normal' of professions to
begin with. Dissecting dead bodies with no emotional involvement isn't the
same, for example, as slinging hash at the local Dennys, managing a corporate
office or even looking after live human people. She needs something more
down to Earth to anchor her in a healthy milieu. I don't think Nick is it.
I mean, he's cute, but he's dead. Not only dead, but despite his recent
(and rather shaky) remorse, he's also a mass murderer. He can't even help
occasionally thinking of Natalie as a possible snack, rather than a mate.
Even if you can overlook all the rest, he can't father any children with
her, he can't grow old with her, he gets bored every few decades or so with
his life in general and he has utterly no control over his undead hormones,
where other females are concerned. About the only thing that's healthy about
this entire situation is his bank account.
Hmmm...Natalie isn't a dope. Maybe she really just wants Nick for his money!
Seriously, though, if I were a network like USA last fall, and wanted to add
any character to the show, I would have considered a strong mortal RIVAL for
Natalie's attention, to keep things interesting...not this Tracy/Vachon
stuff. It worked for the first season of REMINGTON STEELE. I certainly
would have found it more of a challenge, story wise, and would have perhaps
given Nick more of a motivation to be a better man (and maybe a mortal).
Leah (who has no fear of N&N flames...I've got on my asbestos jammies)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:05:16 -0500
From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......>
Subject: A topic other than butts and calendars
On Feb 06, 1996 08:48:51, 'Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>' wrote:
>;) Someone posed a question along the lines "Would Nick really like it if he
>became mortal?" (Sorry for paraphrasing!)
He only THINKS he wants to be mortal. What Nick really wants is
redemption. He believes that mortality is a necessary ingredient toward
redemption; but if he could be 'redeemed' without losing his powers or his
eternal life, well, that'd be a totally different story.
Nick's got 800 years worth of vampire thought patterns. How well is he
going to cope with being human? Would take him half his remaining mortal
lifespan just to learn how to deal with the changes. If, that is, he lasts
past the first day. After all, most police detectives have developed the
habit of ducking bullets...
--
KEEP THE FAITH! -- Jamie M.R. -- The Illustrated C.O.U.S.I.N.
NatPack -- Mercenary -- SFK WebGoddess -- Asst. Listowner
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/immajer/
THIS IS WAR #6. And this time, it's personal.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:19:00 -0500
From: Leah Rosenthal <Bizarro7@a.......>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe me please
In a message dated 96-02-06 14:03:05 EST, you write:
>
>Too much e-mail to sort through. Can't get to messages from personal friends
>for all the other stuff. Please unsubscribe lkschenk@i........ My name
>is Lisa Schenk, M.A., N.C.C. Thank you very much. I am a big fan of Forever
>Knight but this listserve has too much silly stuff on it. No time for this.
>
>
Hmmmm...I don't recall deliberately tricking someone into joining this list,
demanding that someone drain every last message dry, or demanding that they
stay for all eternity. Maybe we should learn to emulate LaCroix somewhat
more closely. Also, I must have missed the part of the list FAQ that
specifies that "nothing silly shall ever be said". And finally, I guess a
lot of us are underqualified for life as we do not have a lot of fancy,
highfalootin, class-conscious letters that follow our names, proclaiming to
one and all how brilliant, busy, and non-silly we truly are. *snicker*
Incidentally, does anyone have the slightest idea what N.C.C. stands for? I
could suggest some obvious possibilities, but this is a family list and I
wouldn't want to appear "uncouth" or "silly".
Leah Rosenthal, B.A., Cum Laude, FK, AG, XWP, B7, B5, DS9, VOY, HERC, HIGH,
GC, U.N.C.L.E., ETC.
(Fan of FK, American Gothic, Xena, Blakes 7, Babylon 5, Deep Space 9,
Voyager, Hercules, Highlander, Garlic Crab, United Network Command for Law
Enforcement, etc. etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum, plus an admitted fondness for
the Weather Channel...)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:50:02 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Advice, please?
A suggestion for people dealing with messages from this (or any)
list: The messages have titles in the subject line (like this one is
RE: Advice, please?). If you read a message and the subject matter
doesn't interest you, note the subject title. Then if you see a
message(s) come in with a RE: that subject title, you can just delete
the message unread, since you'll know it isn't a subject that interests
you.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:54:00 -0500
From: Pam Maine <MiSTiAngel@a.......>
Subject: Local cancellation crisis
I've been "no mail" on this list for awhile (too much mail to keep up
with!!), but have been following/participating in the Save FK Campaign as
well as I could through other sources. Anyway, someone mentioned last week
on the Due South list that the Boston syndicator, WFXT (FOX affiliate) had
_cancelled_ FK. I checked the TV Guide--_wrestling_ was listed!! I waited
through the weekend _hoping_ it was a mistake--nope, no FK!! If some kindly
soul out there could tape for me (preferably 1st gen at EP/6 eps per tape), I
would be _eternally_ grateful (and we know what eternity means on this
list!!). I'd also be sharing the tapes with my sister (fellow Natpacker), my
aunt (only two years older than me and a Ravenette), and probably my
not-so-little-anymore (12 is old enough for FK, don'tcha think?) cousin (no,
not _that_ kind of Cousin!!). I'd prefer to trade (I'm clearing out my 1st
gen copies of BatB, QL, and MST3K), but I could consider a cash deal--plus
the contribution of your choice (within reason!!) to the Save FK efforts.
Please e-mail directly to mistiangel@a......., 'cause I'm still on no mail on
this list.
TYK!!
*Angel 0:)*mistiangel@a.......**Pam in the "real world"*
MSTie # 35267**DueSer**NatPacker**Nick&NatPacker
*Check http://www.cybercom.net/~fringe/savemst.html*
*for info on how to help save MST3K!!*
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:47:53 CST
From: Laurene <HARNECKL@e.......>
Subject: would Nick really like being mortal
Delurking momentarily. . .
Cousin Tippi said Nick wouldn't like mortality if he got it back,
and I have to agree, although for different reasons. Actually, like
others before me, I don't think it's really mortality that he wants.
He really wants to make up for his evil/immoral/whatever past; he
wants absolution from his tremendous feelings of guilt. If he were
to become an ordinary mortal again, he wouldn't be able to do all the
cool stuff that makes him such a great cop--no more flying to the
rescue or saving people in the nick (no pun intended) of time because
he heard some nefarious act with his super-sensitive hearing.
There, that's my 2 cents. Back to lurking.
Laurene
****harneckl@e.......*****Save Forever Knight!**********
"All I wanna do is have some fun before the sun comes up" o'er
the CN Tower and the Skydome. -- Sheryl Crow & me
****http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html****
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:07:26 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@f.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie`s quandr
Leah (who has no fear of N&N flames...because she's wearing her asbestos
jammies) wrote:
Bi> [Nat] needs something more down to Earth to anchor
Bi> her in a healthy milieu. I don't think Nick is it. I mean, he's cute,
Bi> but he's dead. Not only dead, but despite his recent (and rather
Bi> shaky) remorse, he's also a mass murderer.
Well, I can't let this pass! Normally I lurk on this list as no one seems to
need to be whapped for misspelling Richie, but I think I must have a virtual
Nick flag made up now... Wait, wrong list.
I think the mass murder thing is a point of view. If you look at it that
way, Duncan MacLeod is a mass murderer too. I mean, he goes around cutting
people's heads off. He does it to survive. Vampires drink blood to survive,
and until recently had to get it from the source, as it were. In many
episodes we are shown that vampires see humans much as we see cows, sheep
and other meat animals: as food. Okay, so it's not so great if you're the
cow (or Nick's latest meal), but we are looking at this from a human point
of view. The vampires don't look at it that way. As Vachon said, "We don't
live to kill... we kill to live."
I wonder how many of us would take vampirism over mortality? Reminds me of
that B5 episode "Deathwalker", in which the immortality serum could only be
obtained from other living beings. And Deathwalker said that to get it,
people would end up killing each other. The idea of immortality is very
seductive. As Schanke said, "Oh, you're saying you *wouldn't*?"
Also, I don't think Nick is dead. It does not seem as if FK vamps have to
die before moving into the world of vampirism. They merely go from a mortal
state to an immortal one - but they retain a heartbeat and some other
functions. So while Nick may not be the healthiest person for Natalie to be
around, it isn't like she is committing necrophilia or something. She knows
what he is and she accepts the risks. She even gives him what-for when she
thinks he's misbehaving. Good for her. Now if only Nick would just bring her
across and be done with it...
- Marina.
\\ "And tell me if you want to catch that feeling of redemption; //
// That feeling of redemption don't do much for me." - Tanita Tikaram \\
\\========Marina Bailey========tmar@f.......========Knightie========= //
... What's with you guys and the swords?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:20:32 -0800
From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......>
Subject: ReviewZine/medtrek
Last month I sent a bunch of stuff to a woman in Australia who puts
together a zine on SciFi stuff.
I got this note from her last night. Let's go check out her site, shall we?
Cynthia
Sig for the week (shamelessly swiped from LCF):
"But WHY? I mean, were they punishing the characters for something? Or
punishing the audience for paying attention?"
"My son, you want me to fathom the thinking of television executives?
I'm only a god."
-- From "Miserable Depressing Endings, by Rache
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:01:24 +1100
From: Susan Clarke <s.clarke@n.......>
To: choff@v.......
Subject: Re: SOS--Forever Knight
Dear Cynthia,
Have got at least some information for people to check out at
http://www.ar.com.au/~medtrek
The rest will go in the next issue of ReviewZine. Let me know how things
turn out please.
Susan
/""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""\ /""""""""""""""""""""""""""""\
/ Medtrek 5 Multimedia Convention | /Some easy people to catch are |
| Yep Sue & Co couldn't help themselves | | s.clarke@n....... |
| And the men with white suites have the| | andrew@m....... |
| rooms ready for us. / | /
\______________________________________/ \____________________________/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:20:16 -0500
From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......>
Subject: Re: New Lists...the Perfect List...the.....
On Feb 06, 1996 13:22:29, 'Carla Pickering <carlap@e.......>' wrote:
>P.S.--I've got some
>REALLY attrocious poetry to post whenever I remember to bring it in to
>work....that does go here, doesn't it??
Poetry would go to FKFIC-L -- atrocious, or otherwise. <g>
If we start subdividing lists for every little topic, well, I can tell you
right now that I absolutely refuse to be an assistant listowner on
GERBUTT-L.
--
KEEP THE FAITH! -- Jamie M.R. -- The Illustrated C.O.U.S.I.N.
NatPack -- Mercenary -- SFK WebGoddess -- Asst. Listowner
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/immajer/
THIS IS WAR #6. And this time, it's personal.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:38:28 -0800
From: Frisson <frisson@i.......>
Subject: Another fascinating Topic Hi Cassie:-)
Cassie wrote:
>>He is a VAMPIRE, and vampires are generally considered monsters in
>>the popular imagination, right?
IMO, Vampires are only monsters to those who have problems dealing with
their own dark side. To me, Vampires are simply higher on the food
chain than humans and are no more good or evil than humans are. Nick
is not 'good,' IMO, any more than LaCroix is 'evil' (and I _do not_
think he is.) They simply have different methods and morals. LaCroix
has actually never come out and lied to anyone in so many words,
whereas Nick does it every day. I, personally would rather know
where I stand. (ie-- with LaCroix) I am a Cousin because I see
LaCroix in acceptance of what he _is_ on a very fundamental level.
(That doesn't mean he always has to like it. Nick will never
be happy with what he is, it would seem.)
I know I'm getting off the subject, but I'm trying to say that because
I can _relate_ to these characters and to their dark sides, I _do not_
consider them monsters. This is because I do not consider my dark
half, which I freely own, to be monstrous.
>> What Nick wants more than anything is to be human, to be rid of the
>>"curse" that comes with being a vampire--but if he becomes mortal, he
>>will not only be rid of the "evil" within himself, but also of the
>>powers that enable him to do more "good" than any human can possibly
I strongly, strongly disagree with these statements. First of all (and
I know he says he wants to be mortal again) I think that Nick wants
_redemption_ and he has confused redemption with mortality. They are
_not_ the same. After 767 years as a Vampire, Nick really can not
possibly know what it means to be human. If I did not think it
possible for Nick to redeem his soul (ie -- get rid of his supposed
'evil') as a Vampire, there would be absolutely no reason for me to
watch the show because then Nick _would_ be a monster. I want to see
him find peace as a Vampire. I want to see him find resemption _as a
Vampire._ It is facing the dark side of himself that I feel will grant
Nick peace because that side will not go away.
Like you said, Nick may have stopped drinking blood, but I sure as he**
haven't seen him give up flying, strength , speed, hypnosis, etc. If
he is able to do good as a Vampire by using his Vampiric powers, then I
say he can also redeem his soul as a Vampire. He _has_ to deal with
his dark side and he will have to do this even if he becomes mortal.
Also, because I consider so-called degrees of 'good' and 'evil' to be
metaphysical, I don't think that his powers enable Nick to do _more_
good that a 'good' human just as I don't think that humanity will lead
Nick to goodness. (I'm admittedly being argumentative here. ;-))
BTW--Without getting into a huge theological debate (which I believe
should be done privately--is that correct??) when I speak of
redemption, I am not speaking of religion, I mean
_personal_ redemption and peace with ones own soul, spirit etc.
>>et off track so easily, but for me this topic is infinite. I *think*
>>my main question here has to do with the nature of Nick's "terrible
>>secret," though I can assure you I have said nothing so far to
>>indicate that focus!
Great!! I love off-track and infinite discussions. <g> What I refer
to the dark side (in Nick's case, the Vampire) is this terrible secret.
Many humans attempt to hide this from themselves and from others.
Nick's dark side is simply more literal.
>>Whetever the source of vampirism, contemporary Western culture
>>dictates that it's something shameful.
Like the dark side of one's personality, or the "beast within."
>> Of course LaCroix and Janette see vampirism
>>as a source of pride <HUGE snip for 4 line rule>t is considered
>>deviant by mainstream societyis by LaCroix and Janette considered the
>>undeniable, unescapable reality of a minority
Yes!! Just as humans should celebrate their emotions, sexuality, 'dark
half' etc., but are not allowed to in all cases-- just as you pointed
out that minorities try to celebrate what they are. Janette and
LaCroix "do not deny what they are." One thing that 'brought me
across' to the FK universe is that FK Vampires are depicted as having
as many different types of personalities and moral stances as humans
have. I despise one dimensional monsters and savage beasts beacuse
they usually are depicted as being beyond redemption and that, quite
frankly, bores me. The FK Vampires have to have a means of redemption,
IMO, because they are capable of different moral stances.
>> Janette tended to represent a liberated female sexuality,
>>the anti Victorian Woman who, having served her time as a prostitute,
Vampirism certainly empowered Janette as a woman, IMO. It made the men
who abused her (in their final moments :-)) see her as an equal. They
saw her 'unfeminine' dark half for the first (albeit last) time.
I would like to add that the reason that I find Vampires sexual (and
this is a family list, so my discussion is in no way exhaustive) is
because of the association with sex and death and sex and
danger. Danger is sexy, IMO. It offers an adrenaline rush, a sense of
living on the edge, etc. Death is the ultimate unknown. It is fear
and darkness and falling off the edge and the beast
within and it is sexy. (now you see why I am a Cousin. ;-))
Thanks for this in no way exhaustive discussion. May I say, I'm glad
you decided to stay. :-)
Cousin Diana "Death is the veil which those who live call
life. They sleep and it is lifted."
mercenary --Percy Bysshe Shelley
frisson@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:38:37 -0800
From: Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
Subject: Re: A Fascinating New Topic
On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Cassie Carter wrote:
> (3) What is the overall significance of superhuman characters
> whose superhuman powers must remain secret? Why are such
> characters so *appealing*, whether or not they use their powers
Well, you said yourself, they're "more interesting than normal, garden
variety humans." But *why* we find such characters more interesting is
actually a very good question.
My guess is that we like superhuman characters because they spark our
imaginations in several ways. If these kinds of people exist, then we
can pretend that we are one of them, only we don't realize it, for
whatever reason you care to make up. Or, equally good, pretend that any
random person on the street is one, and try to look for signs. It's a
fun diversion, and harmless, and something that appeals to everyone.
People like to seek out supernatural things in themselves and in others,
to try to break up the mundanity of everyday life. We need something to
spark their imagination and give them something more in life and in
people to look for.
Supernatural characters do all the things we wish we could. When good
characters do good deeds, it gives us a warm sense of accomplishment, as
if we had done the good deed ourselves. If a bad character does
something bad, a lot of times it's also something we wish we could do.
Having the power to get revenge on whoever annoys you, without any
consequences, is a *very* nice little trick, and tempts even the kindest
soul. It's when the character acts in a way (either too good *or* too
bad), that does not reflect something we would do, that we don't like him
or her. Because it is when we can't see ourselves in the character that
his or her role becomes meaningless.
As always, characters on a tv screen are meant to be little purified,
distilled portions of our own psyches, so we can understand ourselves
better. Good and evil characters battle against each other in their own
little world, the same as they do in ourselves.
And that's the crux of it: in these supernatural characters, both good
and evil, we see both ourselves as we are, and as we wish we could be,
all wrapped up into one.
Hmm, on second reading, this is fairly completely off topic. Well, I
thought it was an interesting question, and I get carried away by
interesting questions. :)
Catherine
---------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Boone catheboo@c.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with
themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." - H. L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:55:09 -0800
From: Dianne Therese DeSha <desha@b.......>
Subject: PSA: Dian(n)es, Dian(n)es everywhere...
Just a quick note all to try to fix an impending problem:
I don't know where it's being passed around (and that's fine, it's a
business address and on my web pages for heaven's sake! :-) but the
PO Box in South Pasadena, California, belongs to Dianne DeSha (the Merc and
Proud NATPE Survivor), *not* to Diane Echelbarger (Fearless NATPE Leader
and _Wisconsinite_)!
I'm forwarding what I've gotten so far, but please send bag requests
and fond thank yous to her, not me (or I'll go broke on the forwarding
costs! :-)))
Dianne
(well, you can send them to So. Pas. if they're for *me*! :-)
The No-Longer-Mad Ex-Digester <g> -*- NATPE Strikeforce Survivor
***"We ARE War 6!" -- The Magnificent Seven :-)***
Dianne la Mercenaire... -*- <moonlight@c.......> -*- FoFoD
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:49:00 PT
From: Tami Lafrank <tamilyn.lafrank@a.......>
Subject: Re: GERBUTT-L
It's okay Jamie, plenty of Knighties would like to *own* that list.
As a matter-of-fact, this Ravenette would love to *own* that list. It's
mine and I don't have to share if I don't wanna. <vvvvbg>
Tami LaFrank : TCL58@a....... or TCL20@a.......
Forever Faithful Ravenette : King Arthur ran the first (K)Night club.
The Raven Health Spa : Never play Leapfrog with a Unicorn.
"Dying to prolong your life" : Celibacy is not Hereditary.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:21:24 -0500
From: Lisa Clevenger <Sukhmet@a.......>
Subject: Fanfic help
I am having a crisis and I need advise from some people I can trust(you
guys).
In a actuall vampire novel I am writing a contest judge smacked me around for
saying my vampire hero hissed when he spoke.( he didn't do it every time,
just when hepped up)
Am I not mistaken to say that one can hiss or use a sibulant vioce? I
believe LC does it all the time. Espically when he is preturbed.
Yaeh I know it might be trivial to most, but I really need the help.
ARRRRGGHH!
(cousin ) Lisa C
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:11:00 PT
From: Tami Lafrank <tamilyn.lafrank@a.......>
Subject: Nick - mortality and redemption
My opinion:
I have to agree that Nick would be just as unhappy as a mortal. He needs
to come to grips with 'who' he is and not 'what' he is. When he is
comfortable with himself, he'll find the redemption he desires. It will
make no difference if he is human or vampire. If I recall any of those
8 lovely years (sarcasm is deep here folks) that I spent in a Catholic
school, the one thing they kept drumming into us is that you must forgive
yourself first in order for God and others to forgive you. This
is what Nick is truly seeking. Nat is helping to convince him that he is
worthwhile and 'good' rather than a big, evil monster.
(note, the new sig; figured I'd impress you all with *my* acronyms <smirk>)
Tami LaFrank : TCL58@a....... or TCL20@a.......
Forever Faithful Ravenette : A.S. IS CICS IDMS ADS FK GWD KC M.O.M. W.I.F.E
The Raven Health Spa : Eat a live frog first thing in the morning
"Dying to prolong your life" : and nothing worse will happen to you all day.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:22:00 EST
From: Maryann Jorgensen <majorge@i.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie's quandry
Leah wrote:
>Leah (who has no fear of N&N flames...I've got on my asbestos jammies)
Oh ya. Just rememeber this N&Ner knows where you live.<Heh, heh, heh>
Maryann Jorgensen majorge@i....... * Knightie, Natpacker , N&Ner *
***********************************************************************
Nat: "Look, I know you're a figment of my imagination, but you have to
stop sneaking up on me!"
"I'm not a detective in here. Here, I'm a vampire. You may call me
Nicholas de Brabant."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:51:37 EST
From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: There can't be more lists
Ahm, guys, more lists are impossible, at least on psuvm. There are
severe space problems now. No way they'll take any more non-academic
lists. This was the story back when I was still an assistant owner
last summer and it's not likely to have gotten any better.
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:43:08 -0800
From: Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
Subject: Re: A topic other than butts and calendars
On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Jamie Melody Randell wrote:
> He only THINKS he wants to be mortal. What Nick really wants is
> redemption. He believes that mortality is a necessary ingredient toward
> redemption;
Yup, that about sums up my take on the subject, too. Nick thinks that
the end result of saving his soul will justify the act of becoming mortal.
Which is a load of horse hooey, of course. As any self respecting Knightie
knows, the ends do *not* justify the means. ;)
Catherine
Knightie, (nie-tee), n.: Someone who acts more like Nick than he does.
And can prove it.
Now, if you can justify it? Ahhh... you have learned much, young
Grasshopper...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Boone catheboo@c.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with
themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." - H. L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:52:00 CST
From: caroline nachman <caroline@s.......>
Subject: Announcement: free software to organize notes,
ideas about "good vampires."
Announcing the availability of SquareNote3.5, a free software tool for For
researchers, writers, scholars, collectors, professionals and executives.
SquareNote3.5 organizes, indexes and retrieves notes, ideas and documents.
It's like index card files on your PC.
Used by thousands at 1,100+ colleges and universities, and by thousands of
researchers, writers, professionals and executives in 39 countries around the
world. Easy to learn, simple to use. MS-DOS, runs well in Windows. Works on
any IBM-compatible PC and on Power-PC MACs.
Free copy of SquareNote3.5 available by email ["sqn35net@s......."], our Web
site ["http://sqn.com"] or by postal mail.
Caroline Nachman, SQN Inc. | For free SquareNote3.5,
"Organizes, indexes, retrieves | email "sqn35net@s......."
ideas, notes and documents. | or open "http://sqn.com"
Like index cards on a PC."
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 6 Feb 1996 - Special issue
***************************************************
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
