There are 25 messages totalling 1016 lines in this issue. Topics in this special issue: 1. NATPE Summary; Phase 2 Strategy 2. Help with fiction piece please... 3. Nick I Am :) 4. Ger's Chat 5. mugs 6. Who`s sexier? De (2) 7. Nick nude 8. Vampires & Flying 9. Ger Wallpaper (3) 10. Words from Erin Murphy of OMNI (2) 11. NATPE Brochures / KK? 12. NATPE Triumphs, *HEY TONI!* 13. Playback article - Bedard/Lalonde 14. Addendum: Thoughts on . . . 15. Air times this week? 16. Vampire Flight 17. War? War? ah, noooo.... 18. Vows Upheld 19. Tape tree update 20. Blood Drive? 21. Some thoughts about NB's post (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:24:47 -0800 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: NATPE Summary; Phase 2 Strategy This post contains suggestions on where we might go from here with the SOS campaign strategy-wise, based on discussions with a number of people. But first, a quick note about our NATPE stand and its impact: Word has it, from a variety of sources, that we stunned the industry. Truly STUNNED them. The independent companies are cheering for us. TriStar and USA Network are shaking their heads. The Neilsens were already under attack, and Forever Knight fandom is being seen as another serious blow to their credibility. FK is the talk of all the coffee clatches at TriStar, AND TriStar (and FK) is the talk of all the coffee clatches elsewhere in the industry! :-) The industry is amazed at our sophistication, professionalism and organization. That old shibboleth, about how it is best to appear as an unorganized group, has been put to rest by our efforts. Now the industry is beginning to look at fans as an untapped resource in selling and promoting their shows. That has never happened before. And it is happening because of US. Best of all, there is now a chance -- just that, a chance, not a guarantee, but a realistic possibility -- that there will be more FK after this season. With or without USA, perhaps movies instead of a 4th series, but SOMETHING. And that would never have happened if not for the work that every single one of us has put into this campaign. And all the other people who have gotten the word from us and pitched in. So everyone should feel very proud of themselves today. :-) More tidbits from NATPE itself that you may have missed: Kay Koplovitz was extremely annoyed at her subordinates for not knowing about us. She made a call on her cellular phone from the NATPE floor and reamed someone about these FK people being at NATPE, and why were they here, and why did she know nothing about it. :-) People took flyers over to the TriStar booth and asked what was the story with FK. People ALSO took flyers over to the USA booth and asked what was the story with FK, don't you broadcast this show, what's going on. People on the NATPE floor were using their laptop computers to dial into the Save FK web site! So, where do we go from here? We've gotten TriStar's attention, in a big way; but we still have to sell them on the idea of a 4th season. It now looks like the key is going to be the February ratings sweeps (yes, I know, everyone is down on Neilsens, but they're still the only game in town). Some additional useful information gleaned at NATPE: * Feltheimer is the right guy to be targeting; it's going to be his decision. * The presents received by USA and Feltheimer made a surprisingly favorable impression. USA was amazed by the candygrams, and Feltheimer loved the vampire cookies ("I've got a fan!"). * the industry has been particularly impressed by the long sponsor lists on the web page, and the fact that we have really been WRITING to those people MOST IMPORTANT: * FK has been generating a 1.7 rating nationwide, and TriStar needs a "2" rating; otherwise, it loses money on the show. It needs more money from syndicators, and they won't pay more unless the show generates a "2". So taking all this information into account, where do we go from here? In my view, our new campaign goal has to be to achieve a 2+ rating in the February sweeps. If we can do that, we've got a darned good shot at a 4th season, imo. We're even helped in this by the fact that USA is no longer out there, splitting the market. And by the prospect of good episodes, including Janette's return. However, that probably isn't enough. Unfortunately, exhausted though we all are, we have to redouble our efforts for the month of February. (After that, though, it's out of our hands. For a while, anyway.) How do we do this? *Continue writing our letters to Feltheimer at TriStar, and, now that USA is back in the picture, to Kay K at USA. When you write, mention the syndicated station where you see FK; if you don't get it on a syndicated station, mention that as well. If you can afford it, consider sending along a present from your region of the country (we're trying to make a favorable impression AND show that FK support is nationwide). The gift effort for Feltheimer and Koplovitz is being coordinated by Laura (Apache); please contact her by e-mail for more information. Her address is: lf@c........ * Continue writing to the syndicators. If FK is on in a good time slot in your area, thank them for it. If it's on in a bad time slot, respectfully suggest that they move it to a better one. If you want demographic information as ammunition (to show them that FK does well in better time slots), e-mail me, or Diane E. or Toni H. for it. If you can afford a small present to your syndicator (flowers and homebaked cookies worked well for those who tried them <g>), better still. * If you happen to know any Neilsens' families (or better yet, if you are one), make sure FK gets recorded in their book! <g> * Circulate flyers in your neighborhood, school, wherever. Make sure they have three addresses on them: Jon Feltheimer's at TriStar, Kay Koplovitz at USA AND your local syndie which shows FK. If you need help designing such a flyer, contact Lana Soward lgs@i....... and ask her; she will customize a flyer for your area and station. * PUBLICITY: we must continue to strive to attain publicity. Contact your local newpaper with our press releases. Continue to search for media contacts to the networks, the major national papers, etc. If we can gain some national exposure, we'll have people watching simply because they are curious. Curious viewers count as much in the Neilsens as dedicated ones <g>. Besides, with the promise of good episodes, curious viewers can become dedicated viewers pretty quickly. Before NATPE, we barely had a hope of a prayer. Now, there's a real chance we can get somewhere. But only if we keep at it. Laurie Fenster ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:41:39 CST From: L'Phantom <jrarmstr@p.......> Subject: Help with fiction piece please... I've started work on a short fiction piece, and I need to know whatever became of Divia. Anyone know? Inside your mind, as always, L'Phantom --Cousin-in-training Help Save Forever Knight! Ask me how! jrarmstr@b....... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:23:00 -0500 From: Tamatha Williams <sackett@u.......> Subject: Re: Nick I Am :) On Jan 28, 1996 00:55:45, 'Lisa Wolters <MVRJasper@a.......>' wrote: >Regarding the wonderful "Nick I Am" silliness going on on FKFIC-L (it's a >gleeful ripoff of "Green Eggs and Ham" for those of you not on the fic list, >i.e., "I do not drink the blood of man/I do not drink it/Nick I am")... >Am I the only one envisioning it as an oversized childrens' book, filled with >pastel watercolor illustrations of happy vampires? And thinking that this >is one piece of tie-in merchandise that I would quite possibly kill for? This is actually very funny to me - I just read "Green Eggs and Ham" in storytime the other day. I could see myself sitting in front of 10-20 3-5 year olds reading "I do not drink the blood of man/I do not drink it/Nick I am" and then trying to explain to the parents why I'm reading it - "but he's a good vampire, trying to regain his mortality and save himself from damnation. Oh you don't like that - well how about the value of persistence, doing good works,etc." -- Tammy Williams - Cousin extraordinaire/ MFW / assistant FW for Joe, Connor, and Kalas sackett@u....... My life is the product of a diseased mind and I love it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:57:33 -0500 From: Maria Vrzoc <vrzoc@u.......> Subject: Ger's Chat Will it be possible for the AOL deprived to read Ger's chat from this Saturday? Is there a possible ftp site? Many thanks. M. Vrzoc (vrzoc@u.......) | Just a little off the top! | -- A. Boleyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:10:33 CST From: "OREL, SARA" <FA55@n.......> Subject: mugs I have a CERK bumper sticker on my car and I was just wondering if Ron the Enforcer would be interested in checking out how much it would cost to do CERK coffee mugs (extra large, as mercs (who actually run the station) drink lots of coffee). How about it, Ron? Count me in for at least two and perhaps three (one for me at work, one for me at home, one for my mom, and one for the lovely friend who sent me both a Raven and a FK shirt for Christmas (a raven shirt, the one with the three vamps on it). She loved the bumper sticker, by the way, and would have put it on the car, but her father totalled her car on the 401 the weekend before Christmas. They were very relieved as he was fine, but boy was she annoyed about the car... So, Ron, could you make a mug or two for me???? I would actually prefer it without a bite taken out. Black background would be cool (but white would be okay, too). Anyone else want to do this? You could have one side with the CERK logo and if you felt ambitious, the Nightcrawler written on the other, or the saying "merc radio , am 490 (that's right, isn't it?) Mercenarily yours (acquisitively yours), Sara FA55%nemomus@a....... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:24:24 -0800 From: K Swanson <kswanson@d.......> Subject: Re: Who`s sexier? De Marina writes: >>Isn't there a scene in a first season episode in which he doesn't have a >>shirt on? Okay, there was something draped in the way and your couldn't see Then Sandra adds: >That episode with the inspector's wife was Dead Issue (from first season). >In the *Canadian* version of the flashback, Nick is apparently posing >nude with a young woman for the painter Bosch. And let us not forget the brief scene of Nick in his sunbed, wearing only his shorts, from the opening scenes of Killer Instinct. :-) Karyn Swanson kswanson@d....... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:46:53 -0900 From: Muldy Sculler <ffbmh@a.......> Subject: Nick nude Nick posing nude for an artist in the Canadian version--yet another reason why living in Canada sounds interesting. Oh, that is the Canadian version of "Dead Issue." Knight Bites, Barbara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:57:43 -0500 From: Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......> Subject: Vampires & Flying Felicia Bollin posted on 1/26 that: >> If that were so, we could all do it. I could not, for example, just pick any telekinetic in the world and tell them to go out and fly like Nick, Vachon, or even Urs. ;-)<< I wasn't talking about telekinesis as is presently known to occur today, supposedly, in some individuals with ESP. That's just the simple and small scale levitation and spoon bending abilities. Sandra Gray was right in that I was thinking of telekinetic powers as frequently written about in many science fiction novels, where it is assumed to be a higher telepathic power that may occur in humans in the future, or in other sentient species we may yet encounter. Vampires are clearly superior creatures, and I would count their powers as being similar to powers of beings I've read about in the genre of science fiction. Science fiction has this way of really expanding one's imagination and realms of possibility, by the way... ;D And Sandra Gray wrote on 1/27: >> I guess this is the kind of response you can expect from someone who has an interest in science fiction as well as horror. :)<< Thanks, Sandra - I take that as a compliment! Marcia Tucker ScFiMarci@a....... Knightie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:57:51 -0500 From: Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......> Subject: Ger Wallpaper From: Carrie Krumtum <Carrie400@a.......> >>Can't decide who is more sexy LC or GWD--- GWD, hands down (but the way, his GIF makes great windows wallpaper:))<< Whew! I'm glad I'm not the only Ger nut who's done this! I had to shrink my program manager to one side to do it, but it's such a nice pic... the same dreamy Ger pic that's on the Authors and Readers info page of Tangled Web Audio. And those audio tapes are so incredibly wonderful... Marcia, in love with that voice and doesn't mind at all the package that goes with it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:02:19 -0500 From: Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......> Subject: Words from Erin Murphy of OMNI Hey, Listpals! Directly after the Geraint Wyn Davies Conference (yes, OMNI has 45 minute conferences, and yes, I heartily agree it was too short and I told Erin so) Erin Murphy, associate editor of OMNI and Ger's "ghost typist", contacted me to inquire how the conference went over. Here are her words about her phone conversation with Ger which I thought you would enjoy (I left out my comments to her): "He's a real doll. :) He was a bit distracted, trying to bowl and talk at the same time. At the end there, he was kissing people good night, and then he walked out to his car... and I could hardly hear him because of the wind. He said the temp is 4 below zero there, and with the wind chill, it's much colder. He was sitting in his car for the last few minutes... of the chat. He was with several actors from the show. I think they must be the new cast members and I don't know their names. He mentioned Lisa and Blue (sp?). He said he originally met Blu on the set of Robocop, which I guess he did a guest appearance on, and he said they've been saying, "Oh, no, it was much colder on Robocop."... But he says the weather now is making them reconsider. :) It sounded cold! He just sounded like he was having a LOT of fun at the bowling alley, and he was as nice as he could possibly be. He gave me a running commentary on his bowling, but he admitted he was fibbing about how well he was doing. ;)" Erin also gave me this information about the conference log: "The log is copyrighted by AOL. To actually post it on another service or a Web site, I ask that people write to me for general permission and also contact the folks at Center Stage. They can write to Amy Arnold at ... Center Stage (AmyA) for permission. If you want to distribute it privately by e-mail or post it on a newsgroup, I think that's OK. I'm certainly not going to give you a hard time, and AOL seems fairly loose about that sort of thing." I'm not sure that "privately by e-mail" means the list, nor the newgroup, though I could be wrong there. Anyway, if you want to post it somewhere, please keep this proper and e-mail Erin and Amy for permission. Addresses: ErinM@a....... and AmyA@a....... I've written for permission to post the log (with row comments and the post-conference get-together in The Morgue private room) to my ftp site where I have the FK chat logs. I believe Jamie is going to do the same for the Web page and Perri Smith for the Knightie home page, both with permission. (Oh, and NAFPE Strike Force, you're WONDERFUL!!!!!!!! Thanks for your incredible efforts!) Marcia Tucker ScFiMarci / OMNINexus / TVV Marci@a....... Knightie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:23:58 -0800 From: "Toni C. Holm" <tch@w.......> Subject: NATPE Brochures / KK? Angela said: >All the free stuff bins were hit, as well as any rack that looked >like it had could contain literature at all. Yes, I made sure to leave >a particularly large stack <snicker> (where the reps couldn't see them >but the customers sure could) at the USA booth. Wouldn't be funny if this was a contributor to KK's reported meltdown?? Angela, you're _all_ Cousin! -Toni <tch@w.......> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:24:10 -0800 From: "Toni C. Holm" <tch@w.......> Subject: Re: NATPE Triumphs, *HEY TONI!* Swordsister said: > Toni? Oh Toooooniiiiiiii! I know you know who this is, sweetie. You >were the one who repeated it to me like five times while I was trying to >remember. Speak out to the world! You rang? Sandie Currie She said she _forgot_ her business cards, but we didn't let that stop us, now did we? I did not get her title, just that she was in p.r. and that a lot of stuff was being routed to her rather than Feltheimer et al. and that she kept trying to tell them how much stuff she was getting. So how about if we send stuff to Jon F. we include a small card or chocolate kissie *specifically* for her since she's the one having to deal with us?? (might not be bad to have her appreciate how *nice* we can be -- when we want to....) -Toni <tch@w.......> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:26:11 EST From: MS LYNNE R ACKERMAN <GNBV32C@p.......> Subject: Playback article - Bedard/Lalonde Very, very long post warning. Article written out because people asked for it. My comments are in [square brackets]. Sorry to have so many - I just couldn't agree with a lot that this guy said. ===================== Article in Playback magazine - issue of January 29, 1996 by Dr. Robert Gardner Dr. Robert Gardner is a professor of media writing and chair of the School of Radio and Television Arts, Ryerson Polytechnic University, Toronto. PHIL BEDARD AND LARRY LALONDE THE LIFEBLOOD BEHIND FOREVER KNIGHT "Drama is comedy without the jokes. It's all about structure." Not a bad line from part of a team of writers who struck me as hybrids. Phil Bedard and Larry Lalonde are two 39-year old Canadians writing a series very definitely in the American mode. They look younger than their years, even though they're rumpled and touching into exhaustion. They are quick to point out, though, that "39 would be old in the States." In Canada, they're still kids, and they have the quirky sense of humor and informality that proves it. At Paragon, working on Forever Knight, a gothic tale about a vampire's quest for mortality, they're like youngsters at a perpetual Hallowe'en party. Bedard and Lalonde started out as standup comics in Montreal in the 70's. An irreverent comedy series for radio won an ACTRA award and identified them as "guys who could write". They've had stints with Royal Canadian Air Farce, My Secret Identity, Dracula: the Series, Katts and Dog [called "Rin Tin Tin, K-9 Cop" in the U.S.], and, in 1992, they landed an assignment with Kung Fu: The Legend Continues, a series they co-produced. [And Ger's been in all those series except for the Air Farce -LA.] The experience at Kung Fu and Warner Bros. was a bit of a trial. Says Bedard: "Nothing was ever done on time. Sometimes you'd be given a scene to write and you didn't even know the context of the episode. Some episodes would be as much as 10 minutes short, and they'd have to be filled." Lalonde puts it this way: "Television writing is often 'contained panic', but there was nothing 'contained' about that particular experience." Now they're writing and producing on the third season of Forever Knight, budgeted at $1 million per episode. [In Canadian dollars -LA.] In the American system - by virtue of their age and experience - they'd be show runners. We ended up talking about this at some length. What you have to realize (and this is where the Canadian system has really gone wrong), is that everyone on an American show is a writer, all the way from the neophyte (likely in his/her early 20's), up through the story editors, the producer, the executive producer, and above. They all know a good script. That's not true in Canada. Writers form a sort of perpetual "peon" class. They seldom, if ever, move up the ranks. As a result, Canadian executives are likely to dress well, "give good meetings", and they know the jargon, but they're at a loss when it comes to evaluating a script. The Americans - for all our tendency to think of them as Philistines - have a profound respect for the writing process. That's why the ranks of the production companies, at the highest levels, are suffused with writers. Think of James L. Brooks, Larry David or Diane English. Bedard and Lalonde are Americanized, too, in the way they understand the system. Forever Knight is shot in a former factory up by Eglinton Ave. and the Don Valley Parkway in Toronto. The sets - the vampire's lair, a morgue, a police station, a bizarre nightclub and a rat-infested basement - all exist in huge work spaces filled with the noise of a clanking air-conditioning system. It's quite unlike anything I've seen in L.A., but it does approximate the huge back lots at Universal and elsewhere. Bedard and Lalonde are housed in an office with a garish color scheme. Two computers sit on their desks. The lights are dim and the room has the look of a den. They like working on Forever Knight because it is so much less "scattershot". I took that to mean that, as writers, they have more control and that the executive producers are script literate. In this environment, they can prepare scripts - still under enormous time constraints - that will adhere to a structure and a concept they completely understand. They talked about how they could write in such a way as to maximize the budget and make the best possible use of the available sets. The show's executive producers, in valuing the writers, have created a process that is creative yet orderly. Sometimes, in Canada, a type of high-level tension and disorder is seen as a necessary part of the act of producing television. The really experienced people in the States would find that attitude baffling. South of the border, a show that's been around for a season or two has the precision of a Normandy landing. It struck me that Bedard and Lalonde, as show runners, are emulating the best of the American process. Part of the problem with any TV show is that they often get picked up by a network late in the day. And then the scripts have to be written at incredible speed. (Apparently, that was part of the problem at Due South, where Bedard and Lalonde picked up a writing credit. The show suffered from an off again, on again syndrome that caused some problems for the writers.) But even Forever Knight is facing this difficulty in the current season. Because of delays in the pickup of the show, they couldn't start shooting until July for a September startup. Says Lalonde, "Lead time is everything." Forever Knight, which runs on CTV and is distributed in the States by Screen Gems, has become something of a cult favorite. [Oh, really? (sarcasm mode very firmly on) -LA] The early shows struck me as over the top, but recent productions have found a shape and a style that is somewhere between a cop show and a gothic adventure. Bedard says one of the problems they faced with the show was determining "exactly what it was about." Apparently, Jim Parriott and Jon Slan, the executive producers, kept asking, "What is the show attempting to say?" By that, they meant, "What aspect of human nature are we talking about?" Bedard and Lalonde were struggling to base the show in some type of reality. In a sense, the vampire dimension of the series is being pushed further and further into the background. [Oh, yeah. That's why we've had so many new vampires introduced this season - Vachon, Urs, Screed, Perry and Jody. Not to mention introducing a whole new type of vampires (carouches) we'd never even heard of before! And why so many of the episodes have focused so much on the vampires instead of on the police aspect of the show. I wonder when this guy actually did the interview? -LA] The show deals with a soul trying to achieve mortality and peace. It's not enough to have bats and blood...that will only take you so far. The series has to be about the human condition. [Have you ever seen a bat on FK? Yeah, me neither!! -LA] I asked the writers if the series has assumed a shape that is roughly the same from week to week. I've found that writers never like to admit this, but when pressed there is always an admission that a show which has been around for some period of time has a roughly similar structure. We moved to a blackboard in the office to sketch out the show's essential shape. For example, there are usually four acts. For the uninitiated, an act is bracketed by commercial breaks. (Sometimes, in American distribution, there might be five acts, but that's an artificial and arbitrary editing job over which the writers have no control.) An act has a regular number of scenes (or beats). In each act there will be a "flashback", which serves as a type of subplot to the main action of the teleplay. The four flashbacks are linked thematically and normally provide the hero with some recalled information which permits him to solve his current dilemma. [I think he means the four flashback >scenes<. -LA] Often, once the step outline is prepared, outlining all of the action of the show, the writers will start with the act break (or the break to the commercial) and work backwards. In addition, Bedard and Lalonde will often divide up a show. One will write the first half of the episode, and the other will work on the latter half. Then they'll switch and rewrite each other's material. If this strikes the observer as terribly mechanical, I can only tell you that every experienced writer I've talked to in L.A. and Canada will instantly recognize this as a necessary element in any TV show. The underlying shape is almost inescapable. The trick is to be creative and original within the confines of this tiny prison. Bedard pointed out that although the overall shape of the show is a "very tight structure," the design "isn't written anywhere." There is no bible for the show. It's in the heads of the key people. Bedard and Lalonde work with the show's executives to write and rewrite the material in a collaborative process that, again, mirrors the way the Americans work. Since the structure of the series is known intimately by the participants, pitching a show becomes an exercise in shorthand. Lalonde says last year they wanted to do a show on a near-death experience. If they were to pitch that show, it would go something like this: "The hero has a near-death experience. That crisis takes him back, in his imagination, to the past and the first time, as a vampire, he almost died. He has a chance to die - something he has sought all of his existence. The show deals with why he chooses to remain alive even though he is cursed to live as a vampire." So here they are with a structure that is roughly similar from show to show, with a prescribed number of beats or scenes, a prescribed number of flashbacks, a finite number of standing sets, combined with location shooting and special sets. They, along with a cadre of freelancers, all write the scripts and then executive producer Parriott (like his counterparts in the U.S.) will review the scripts, suggest changes or mark down, "DB - do better). Bedard and Lalonde agree that Parriott's instincts are pretty infallible. If Canadians truly understood the process, they would be full-fledged show runners. In the States, they'd already be training a bunch of 20-year olds to crunch out the words and the situations. Their proper role would be to mold and refine the scripts in a type of apprenticeship we've never had the sense to emulate. It's clear they love their work. But they say that a writer has to have a thick skin. Scripts are rewritten more than they're written. That's part of the game. Essentially, Bedard and Lalonde, two funny and gifted guys from Montreal, have been allowed to stay in the sandbox long after their friends have headed off to a much overrated "maturity". I suspect they like it that way. They've developed a skill and a craft that our industry desperately needs if it's to play in the big leagues. ======================= Well, for what it's worth, there it is. I think it's a pretty bad article (too much pontificating by the writer and talking-down to the reader, not enough about Bedard and Lalonde), but if anyone wants to write him the address is: Dr. Robert Gardner c/o Playback 000 Xxxxxxxx Xx. X., Xxx. 000 Toronto, Ont. Canada X0X 0X0 A message from Lynne Ackerman in Toronto (or, as we like to call it, "Hollywood North"!) Via Internet: gnbv32c@p....... (preferred address) or be028@t....... *** Help save Forever Knight! Ask me how. *** http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:20:00 -0500 From: Cassie Carter <ccarter@b.......> Subject: Addendum: Thoughts on . . . Hello List Friends, I want to thank all of you who have responded (privately and on-list) to my post about list rules and the "v&v" problem. (If you don't know what the "v&v" problem is, you'll have to e-mail me privately.) Now that I know more about the "v&v" poster and writer, I feel much less ambivalent about the poster being kicked off the list. Thanks to all of you who clarified the details for me. The reaction to my suggestion that an anti-libel rule needs to be added to the list rules seems to be unanimous so far. The general agreement is that the people on FORKNI-L understand the difference between fantasy and reality, that they know better than to post libelous messages of the "v&v" variety. I agree. However . . . The anti-libel rule I am proposing pretty much has nothing to do with the regular participants on FORKNI-L. I'm talking about a rule to deal with situations like "v&v," where the poster knows nothing of how FORKNI-L works nor necessarily cares. All it would entail is a statement in the official FORKNI-L rules that the list will not tolerate libelous posts, and that the poster of any libelous message will not only be kicked off the list but will also be solely liable for any legal action taken as a result. As an ex-listowner explained to me, Jaye could be held liable for posts made to FORKNI-L. An official statement of FORKNI-L's policy against libelous posts would not only serve to protect the listowner, it might also *prevent* such posts from appearing in the future, thereby saving potential victims the pain they might have to endure from such a post. Now, after reading many responses to my original post, I know you're asking, "Why do *we* need such a rule? The V*V post was an anomaly!" Well, sure. But I don't think we can assume that the ethical values currently understood to be in force on this list will necessarily hold out on their own. We've been engaged in a MASSIVE publicity campaign for FK that has included recruitment efforts all over the internet. We're getting new listmembers all the time; I, for example, was sort of "recruited" from an FK newsgroup about a month ago via SOS posts. Remember in my previous post when I mentioned the state of "entertainment" commentary standard today? I was referring in part to print media, and in part to what's going on on the internet. The high respect for FK castmembers on FORKNI-L is definitely *not* standard anywhere else, and I've heard from several listmembers that the FK spoilers newsgroup borders on the obscene. Now think about it: people on the spoilers newsgroup could be joining THIS list right now. They're coming from a setting where FK is not discussed in the same way it is discussed on FORKNI-L. Do we just want to *assume* they're going to mind their manners? Like I said, I came to FORKNI-L from an FK newsgroup only recently. I am at a total loss as to what is acceptable and unacceptable on this list. I'm learning, but only gradually. Think about it: wouldn't it be a good idea to protect the list from the ignorance of rabble like me? Oh, by the way, rabble that I am, I'm thinking about volunteering to compile a list of unofficial list "rules" (protocol) for new members. Anyone interested in contributing? Cassie Carter |----------------------------------------| English Department | Visit THE JIM CARROLL HOME PAGE | Bowling Green State University |http://www.bgsu.edu/~ccarter/carroll.htm| Bowling Green, OH 43403 |*Everything you want to know about JC!* | ccarter@b....... |----------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:14:41 -0500 From: Todd Cooper <todd@v.......> Subject: Air times this week? I missed Sundays episode (broadcast on WFXT Boston 11:30PM Sunday) Can anyone tell me what the schedule is for USA or WPRI 10 in Providence is this week? -- +++++ Just leaving a newest exciting signature. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Todd Cooper (todd@v.......) Voice: +000-000-0000x0000 Fax: +000-000-0000 Snail Mail: Vmark Software, 00 Xxxxxxxxxx Xxxxxx, Xxxxxxxx, XX 00000-0000 USA WWW URL: http://infoserv.vmark.com/~todd PGP signature availble on request ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:39:15 -0500 From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......> Subject: Re: Vampire Flight On Jan 28, 1996 20:01:38, 'zillah <zillah@i.......>' wrote: >And lets say I wanted to fly to New York because, oh I don't know, I wanted >to bite Jamie so we could fly around the country bringing FK fans across. >What would she tell me? I live at such and such street. I will be *way* >over the street signs, too far to read them... Actually, I'd tell you... Follow the Atlantic Ocean coastline NORTH (first face the sunset, then turn right) until you get to this incredible splotch of bright light in a teeny tiny area. That's New York. The tall skinny island is Manhattan; when you see that, drop a little lower. On the right side of the island, count up four bridges; at the fourth bridge, hang a right (east) and follow the big street/ribbon of light... you'll be following either Queens or Northern Boulevard; either one will take you close to Flushing Meadow Park, so look for a huge silvery globe (the Unisphere from one of the old World's Fairs) -- stand on top of the globe, orient yourself east-southeast, one quick hop and you're there. That's what I'd tell you. Vampiric navigation isn't such a problem now, in the age of technology... ObFK: YKYB on the list too long when you've got to be someplace VERY early in the morning, and you get up an hour early just so you can read your list mail first... -- KEEP THE FAITH! Jamie M.R. --The Illustrated C.O.U.S.I.N. -- Mercenary -- SFK WebGoddess http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/immajer/ THIS IS WAR #6. And this time, it's personal. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:41:53 -0500 From: Deborah Menikoff <menikoff@p.......> Subject: Re: War? War? ah, noooo.... MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR writes: >with any of these people and can steal one... and someone brought up the >Next War. >As in "see you in April"!Yeep! I'm not ready yet! C'mon, guys, I'm still in >Sleep Deprivation Recovery from the last one! And aren't some of you going Oh dear. Sorry...I wrote that about April but I promise it had nothing to do with a war. It's simply tht I am going to California in April and am dropping in on Dianne for a couple of days while I am there. Virtual theft....my elbow. I am going *out* there. <vbg> Cousin Deborah "I hate when people get away with murder on my watch" menikoff@p....... http://www.cup.org/people/homepages/djm/page.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:58:47 -0500 From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......> Subject: Vows Upheld Having succumbed to the inevitable -- and the promise I made while sleep-deprived -- I wish to announce the meaning of the acronym below. C.O.U.S.I.N.: Creative. Original. Unpredictable. Sincere. Insane. NATPACKER. Expressions of amusement, dismay, outrage or relief may be directed to me at this address. -- KEEP THE FAITH! Jamie M.R. --The Illustrated C.O.U.S.I.N. -- Mercenary -- SFK WebGoddess http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/immajer/ THIS IS WAR #6. And this time, it's personal. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:02:55 -0500 From: Lillian Feden <feden@m.......> Subject: Re: Words from Erin Murphy of OMNI At 02:02 AM 1/29/96 -0500, Marcia Tucker wrote: >I've written for permission to post the log (with row comments and the >post-conference get-together in The Morgue private room) to my ftp site where >I have the FK chat logs. I believe Jamie is going to do the same for the Web >page and Perri Smith for the Knightie home page, both with permission. Don't you need permission of the folks in The Morgue, not AOL? Same with the row comments. Lillian |feden@m....... aka RotsaRuck@a....... http://www.mcs.com/~feden| |Knightie; Optimist's Club | |Help Save Forever Knight! Check out the SFK Web Page for info: | |http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:44:12 -0500 From: jennifer matute <jmatute@u.......> Subject: Re: Tape tree update please add me to the list..i will be knightless once usa drops it cousine jeni jmatute@u....... On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Nancy M. Duemling wrote: > Since I've gotten two messages in the last two days, I thought > it might be prudent to post this again. I am organizing pairing > up those who are going to be FK-deprived once (if) USA stops > airing the show with those willing to dub a copy of those eps > that will air only in syndication. > > So far 16 listmembers have been paired up with folks willing to > supply the probably soon-to-be deprived with tapes. If you > haven't gotten on the list and would like to either receive or > dub tapes, please email me privately. > > And again, to all those kind souls who have volunteered to > provide copies, {{{{{{thank you}}}}}} > > Nancy Duemling, Knightie and DueSer (NancyD@p.......) > "Yon knight doth sit too melancholy"-W. Shakespeare > "That was a tree"-OFC to OFM > http://www.msen.com/~duemling/ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:53:39 -0500 From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......> Subject: Re: Who`s sexier? De Karen Swanson writes: >And let us not forget the brief scene of Nick in his sunbed, wearing only >his shorts, from the opening scenes of Killer Instinct. :-) Shorts? Or do you mean underwear? That was a pretty distant shot and again, not full frontal view either. --Sandra Gray, forever Knightie --tmp_harkins@d....... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:05:59 EST From: Karen Tobin <ktobin@t.......> Subject: Re: Ger Wallpaper On 29 Jan 96 at 1:57, Marcia Tucker wrote: >> From: Carrie Krumtum <Carrie400@a.......> >>GWD, hands down (but the way, his GIF makes great windows > >wallpaper:))<< > Whew! I'm glad I'm not the only Ger nut who's done this! Absolutely not! I have the shot of him and his bottle as wallpaper. Too blurry full size, so I tiled it. (That works nicley with the picture you're using too, Marci!) Also my screen saver is a series of pictures, mostly from FK. Lots of my sounds are too! (Everytime I make a mistake, Nick says "Don't mock me."!!!) Karen, Knightie/Heartbreaker/FFFROG ktobin@t......., KarenT1228@a.......) Reference Librarian of the Save Forever Knight Campaign Forever Knight has been cancelled. To help, email me and/or visit: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 05:19:32 -0800 From: LG Soward <lgs@i.......> Subject: Re: Blood Drive? At 03:46 PM 1/28/96 -0800, you wrote: >Dearest, I'd hold my tongue if I were you... >...wouldn't want to make me..."cranky" for the next war, now would you? Of course not, my dear. Only turncoats would tell. <g> Lana lgs@i....... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:20:09 -0500 From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......> Subject: Re: Ger Wallpaper On Jan 29, 1996 08:05:59, someone wrote: >Whew! I'm glad I'm not the only Ger nut who's done this! I'm curious. Is there anyone out there who has a computer that they are able to customize, who HASN'T customized it FK? (I have a graphic bitmap of the FK logo and TO skyline as a full-screen background, FK icons, .wav files -- am using up 2 meg of space I can't afford to keep the FK theme as my start-up sound -- AND I found a neat program that replaces the Windows logo start-up screen with something else, so the FK logo comes up upon start-up.) -- KEEP THE FAITH! Jamie M.R. --The Illustrated C.O.U.S.I.N. -- Natpack -- Mercenary -- SFK WebGoddess http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/immajer/ THIS IS WAR #6. And this time, it's personal. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:53:20 -0500 From: Jack De Winter <jackdw@m.......> Subject: Re: Some thoughts about NB's post (long) At 05:37 PM 96-01-27 -0500, you wrote: > >For some reason, the "virgin and the vampire" fiasco continues to gnaw at >me, and Nigel Bennett's recent response to it has set me to thinking >about it even more. I just want to try to express what is bothering me, >hopefully without sticking my foot in my mouth so far that I can't get it In the midst of going through all of the mail about saving FK, it seems like I missed this post. I caught the post from Mr Bennett(uncle), but not the original post. Would somebody be able to send it to me through private mail? regards, cousin jack -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack De Winter 'why isn't phoenetic spelt the way it sounds?' Software Metrics, inc. 'why do they have interstate highways in Hawaii?' jackdw@m....... 'why is there only one Monopolies Commission?' ------------------------------ End of FORKNI-L Digest - 28 Jan 1996 to 29 Jan 1996 - Special issue *******************************************************************
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